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Dust Brother
Posted - 2005.02.23 18:14:00 - [1]
 

I just checked a Yulai station and about 10 corps, out of only the first 15 corps I checked holding an office, had a member size of 2 people or less. And who knows how many corps reside there... prolly around 100, at just that ONE station. At that rate, I'd say about 70% of the corps holding offices in Yulai are alt corps.

With rental fees around 12mil... I dont see how a 1 or 2 member corp can have that area as an asset to them.

I'm just throwing out an issue... but most of you will prolly give me reasons why its done, but it doesnt make it right. Sure, anyone has the right to take an office anywhere if they can afford it. And, I'm sure there are legit corps out there small in size using the offices effectivly. However, you can't deny the fact that many are just holding space and paying rent to deny the use of the office to more suitable corps.

Solutions?

Minimum corp size limit for high priced offices?

Number of office holdings relates to number of members a corp has?

CEO skill for aquiring multiple offices?

One person in each corp must have an "office" skill or roll assigned to each office a corp wants to hold?

Discorporation
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.02.23 18:17:00 - [2]
 

production alts/corps or their parents, they can obviously afford the slots, so what makes you think that they'll let them go Razz

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2005.02.23 19:43:00 - [3]
 

You can have ours for 500M.

JarmenKell
Gallente
Posted - 2005.02.23 19:46:00 - [4]
 

500 millions thats well cheapWink
make it 450 and u got a deal

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2005.02.23 20:02:00 - [5]
 

Aliastra last I checked weren't interested in our offer, it's 500M, already lowballing it as is.

Lord Frost
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2005.02.23 20:16:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Discorporation
production alts/corps or their parents, they can obviously afford the slots, so what makes you think that they'll let them go Razz


I think his point was that if a corp owns a slot... why should they snatch up more slots with alt corps? Yes, they can OBVIOUSLY afford them. But, I'm sure if you actually read the post instead of hashing out quickly you'd see its about finding solutions.

If they already have an office at a station, theres no need for an alt corp office... its only purpose is to hold space and/or to possibly sell for ungodly amounts of money... as you can see from previous posts.

It just another money making monopolizing scam... kinda like those loons who try to scam sell shuttles for 9,111,111,00.... LAME



EvilDoomer
Caldari
Battlestars
Posted - 2005.02.23 20:22:00 - [7]
 


CCP, Why not increase the available slots.
15 is small.
make it 100 for each station what is the problems with that.
and the same for factory and research, Let the players play!!!1
and have fun instead of limits create taller stations and more offices.

LET THE PLAYERS HAVE FUN.
THis is not the real world and should not be.
LET us enjoy the game instead of getting bored because I am 1 3 man corp who cannot afford 12 mil a month rent.
or a research slot for 4 mil every few days.

ITS A GAME.

Cauliflower
Amarr
Posted - 2005.02.23 20:29:00 - [8]
 

To last poster: Rolling Eyes.

pshepherd
Caldari
Subach-Tech
Posted - 2005.02.23 22:04:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: EvilDoomer

ITS A GAME.



If CCP did this everyone would have everything they wanted, and therefore get bored quickly Rolling Eyes

whejl
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2005.02.23 22:48:00 - [10]
 

wts office in yulai

Antic
Posted - 2005.02.23 22:56:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: pshepherd
Originally by: EvilDoomer

ITS A GAME.



If CCP did this everyone would have everything they wanted, and therefore get bored quickly Rolling Eyes



Oh so its a better solution to get people to leave out of frustration isntead? :P FYI, frustration tend to make people loose interest faster than boredom :) Boredom can be solved with new content, frustration cant as its usualy caused by problems with already existing content.

Kira Natel
Posted - 2005.02.23 23:04:00 - [12]
 

It is about fun, and CCP is slowly killing their game without even realizing it :(

Attrezzo Pox
Amarr
The Concordiat
Concordiat Alliance
Posted - 2005.02.23 23:04:00 - [13]
 

Yeah it does seem a bit out of hand.

Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
Posted - 2005.02.24 02:33:00 - [14]
 

Just out of curiosity...
I assume you went looking to rent an ofice terhe and couldn't find one. Did you consider contacting any of these 1-2man corps directly? Maybe asking them that if all they are doing is running an alt-based production corp, then they could join your corp, do their alt-thing there, and the corp gets a shiny new Yulai office?

I'm sorry to keep having to repeat this mantra but "Eve is a fully pvp game". This doesn't mean that the only pvp is shooting at each other. It also means scamming, market suffocation, and yes, real-estate selling.

Rather than come on the forums and whine about the lack of offices, why not speak to the people that own them, and make an offer they can't refuse. Or if they do continue to refuse, war dec away.

Phades
Posted - 2005.02.24 05:34:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Omber Zombie

It also means scamming, market suffocation, and yes, real-estate selling.



So you wont mind terribly when i lease your property in real life then turn around and sell that property to a 3rd party making money off of your assets right? Just be glad that in this game the station owners arent pressing legal action against people within the game sueing them over property rights. Rolling Eyes

Graelyn
Amarr
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2005.02.24 06:03:00 - [16]
 

That's a dumb arguement.

I also can't declare war on some fellow down the street who wronged me, then walk into his house and blow away his family, looting all the way.

Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
Posted - 2005.02.24 06:25:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Phades

So you wont mind terribly when i lease your property in real life then turn around and sell that property to a 3rd party making money off of your assets right? Just be glad that in this game the station owners arent pressing legal action against people within the game sueing them over property rights. Rolling Eyes


Show me somewhere in-game, or even out of game that says that acording to eve laws that it is wrong to do it, and I will agree with you. until then, real life has nothing to do with this game.

Mandros Aslay
Posted - 2005.02.24 06:39:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Mandros Aslay on 24/02/2005 06:41:39
2 man corp just need more alternatives ie Personal Compartmentalised Hangers

I use corp offices PURELY for the ease of use and the 7 hangars. Give me more hangar NOT stoopid cans. The u can have your offices back. yes offices should be for corps not just for the need to keep stuff sorted in an easy manner.

Please dont tell me to use station cans or warehouse cans as thes have been poorly implemented since last patch. A warehouse you cant store muliple cans in ....Retailers in RL would die !!Laughing

Corp Offices should imo (after I get my more compartmentalised personal hangars) should have a CEO corp skill that allows benefits to the corp when using any facility in a station. Is this what this does ?Embarassed
CFO Training
Skill at managing corp finances. 5% discount on all fees at non-hostile NPC station if acting as CFO of a corp.


And it should work that if the CEO changes and they dont have that skill then the corp loses those privilages.

Broker services ......er when .....damn that buttons gone now !Evil or Very Mad

Any ways its more than about ALT CORPS. Its about small freelancers who need the ease of offices. We cna pay stoopid prices ...but why should we ....

Harry Voyager
Jolly Codgers
Posted - 2005.02.24 06:53:00 - [19]
 

I wonder just how many of those are actually alt corps, and not just corps that died, but never unrented the offices.

Sergeant Spot
Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.
Posted - 2005.02.24 07:34:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Harry Voyager
I wonder just how many of those are actually alt corps, and not just corps that died, but never unrented the offices.


If you don't get in game to pay the rent, the office un-rents. Rent is not paid unless you log on and pay it. In short, if the last playing in a corp abandons Eve, the offices will un-rent by themselves in less than 2 months.

Falbala
Gallente
Ishtar's Destiny
Posted - 2005.02.24 09:00:00 - [21]
 

There was a free office in Yulai just when you posted this lol. 11M or so, I didn't take it.

Kar Brogan
Posted - 2005.02.24 09:46:00 - [22]
 

I like the current system. The strong stay in the middle, the weak are forced to stay on the edge and move their goods to the middle.

Want a slot in the 'good' systems, make more money.

Cant make money just through buisness..resort to other meansYARRRR!! to suppliment your income..even better if you can hurt your competitors at the same time.

It carebear population controll is what it is Razz

If you cant handle survival of the fittest, this game aint for you.

If some people have the resources to buy up all the real estate to reduce competition, i bow to them Very Happy

FireFoxx80
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.02.24 10:04:00 - [23]
 

Rolling Eyes Or add yet another corporation management skill, to control the number of offices/security status of an office for an alt corp?

MinorFreak
Amarr
Ordo Ministorum
Posted - 2005.02.24 10:27:00 - [24]
 

yes, but the problem with that is you're assuming that folks will continue to pay ludicrous amounts of rent till it reaches...well, i don't know, i'm pretty sure there's NO cap on the rent.

so yeah, if you want an office at Yulai i'm betting you'll eventually have to pony up about 100 million.

Phades
Posted - 2005.02.24 12:18:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Omber Zombie
Originally by: Phades

So you wont mind terribly when i lease your property in real life then turn around and sell that property to a 3rd party making money off of your assets right? Just be glad that in this game the station owners arent pressing legal action against people within the game sueing them over property rights. Rolling Eyes


Show me somewhere in-game, or even out of game that says that acording to eve laws that it is wrong to do it, and I will agree with you. until then, real life has nothing to do with this game.


Then dont bring any form of economics into the game, thats just too real life for most people.... sighRolling Eyes

People like yourself continue to jump on which side of reality the argument suits best. The only reason this situation perpetuates its self would be that at the time of implementation, this situation was not considered otherwise you would have mechanics involved to assist the trading of such assests like the market or escrow. You can meta game this all you like, but there is a certian logic that does follow many of the things seen in game like the placement of static npcs, difficulty, and loot drops. Its not that its more rewarding, because its in a zone where free for all pvp can occur, its that the difficulty of the npcs dictate it as such and that it is considered that any player capable of handling such situations would also be adequately suited for a free formed pvp environment.

Julien Derida
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2005.02.24 12:41:00 - [26]
 

Nice job on totally misunderstanding OZ Phades.

Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
Posted - 2005.02.24 13:57:00 - [27]
 

Quote:
People like yourself continue to jump on which side of reality the argument suits best.

No, people like myself, those of us that have been around a lot longer than you, seem to understand how this game works. People like myself, who have seen the same whining about pointless topics such as this, and continue to try and explain the concept of Player vs Player to people like you who don't seem to ever 'get it'

Quote:
The only reason this situation perpetuates its self would be that at the time of implementation, this situation was not considered otherwise you would have mechanics involved to assist the trading of such assests like the market or escrow.


Agreed, I wish they had put in a office/factory/lab escrow system. I also wish there was an ingame auction system too. But alas there isn't. Does that mean we shouldn't auction gear off on the forums. Only sell it on escrow or the market?

Quote:
You can meta game this all you like, but there is a certian logic that does follow many of the things seen in game like the placement of static npcs, difficulty, and loot drops. Its not that its more rewarding, because its in a zone where free for all pvp can occur, its that the difficulty of the npcs dictate it as such and that it is considered that any player capable of handling such situations would also be adequately suited for a free formed pvp environment.

Just beacuse you can shoot at predictable computer run pirates does not mean you can fight well against other players. However, that is an entirely differnt topic for discussion.

PvP stands for Player vs. Player. That is not limited to fighting someone in your ship. It is also about cornering the market, any market, including real estate. If there is a profit to be made from someone else, why not profit?

To bring a real life example as you did is pointless. Those rules/laws do not exist in this game currently, so it is a moot point saying that if you did it in RL you would be sued. If you don't like what people are doing, you have numerous options. Declare war, if you can't fight yourself, hire someone else to kill them. If they don't leave the station, economically ruin them by using your own isk to either undercut them at a slight loss, or even purchase everything they make and resell at a higher price.
Of course, you could always be nice about it and talk to them about it. Maybe they don't want the office as much as you do, and your willing to pay them to give it up?
If all else fails - accept your loss and move somewhere else.

Oh, and please stop using sighRolling Eyes, it makes you seem far too arrogant for someone that seems to understand so little.

Ravenal
The Fated
E.Y
Posted - 2005.02.24 14:11:00 - [28]
 

hmm.. a few corrections.

Although there are alot of corps there it doesnt mean they have a hangar there. Yes they have an office but those corps dont play office fees as they do not have a hangar in that station.

This happens when a corp is created in the station... dont know if that affects the rental bills of people with hangars and offices

Bawldeux IV
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.02.24 15:31:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Ravenal
hmm.. a few corrections.

Although there are alot of corps there it doesnt mean they have a hangar there. Yes they have an office but those corps dont play office fees as they do not have a hangar in that station.

This happens when a corp is created in the station... dont know if that affects the rental bills of people with hangars and offices



you cant have an office in a station without having the corp hanger too....if you ment lab slots, thats another subjectTwisted Evil

Demarcus
Killjoy.
Posted - 2005.02.24 15:35:00 - [30]
 

My corp only has 1 person in it and that person is my 1 and only character and I know of several other corps like mine. You shouldn't dump everyone into the same catagory when you really have no idea if it is an alt or not.


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