open All Channels
seplocked Intergalactic Summit
blankseplocked Bounty on Hilen Tukoss
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic

Lucius Vindictus
Amarr
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.15 12:25:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Lucius Vindictus on 15/07/2011 12:33:38
Originally by: Borza Slavak
Funny old Caldari. Equating the breaking of an employment contract to treason.


By that reasoning the guy that stole your alliance a while ago was just breaking his employment contract too. Yet I remember many of you being a little... upset... about it.

Desiderya
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2011.07.15 12:36:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Borza Slavak
Funny old Caldari. Equating the breaking of an employment contract to treason.


A contract is always between at least two groups.
It is, for example, really common that results of a research project funded by a company and executed by its employees actually belongs to said company. Inventions made during work-time and using equipment from the employer are usually bound by contract to belong to the company as well, with agreed legal obligations to pay out inventor royalties and so on.

Terminating a contract unilaterally is one thing, stealing assets and basically the whole project does cross a line very distinctively.

Since we are not talking about more research towards more efficient refrigerators the accusation of treason is not far off, treason at the very least committed at the expense of Zainou and Ishukone.

Silvia Ferragano
Posted - 2011.07.15 12:43:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Silvia Ferragano on 15/07/2011 12:44:08
Originally by: Vikarion
Edited by: Vikarion on 10/07/2011 04:58:35
The former Caldari Hilen Tukoss has seen fit to steal assets from his corporation, betray his country in time of war, and void the investment and faith placed in him by his employers. He has shamed his family, disgraced himself, and worse, convinced others to join him in treason. He is a traitor to the State, to his ancestors, and to everything the Caldari hold dear. And in aiding our enemies, he makes himself responsible for future Caldari deaths and defeats.


Those of you who wish to justify him, ask yourself this: how many of you consider Eturrer, the Gallente traitor, to have been an honorable man? How many of you would trust him? Indeed, and even so also with this Tukoss. otherwise.



It should not come as a surprise that the sad spirit that caused the Caldari to split from the Federation is still ravaging Caldari society. It is however always a pity to see that a people with so much courage towards adversity may shoot itself in the foot with a railgun times and times again.
Gallentean values may not have permeated your thick skulls, but it is to be hoped that more heroes like Tukoss find the courage to stand up against those who would chain their people in iron bounds.

It is also an interesting observation, whatever the differences nations and empires may have, that Caldari Trade corporations may advocate for aggressive behavior onto another Independent Entity, since the Eifyr station mentioned happens to be in Minmatar territory.

I suppose all Caldari really wants to trade is blows, as it always was since a terrorist separatist faction succeeded in alienating our wayward brothers from Caldari Prime. I personnally hope capsuleers will have the good sense not to associate themselves with murder, aggression and kidnapping, demeaning themselves to the level of Sansha Kuvakei, a well known Caldari outcast...

Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.07.15 12:49:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Lucius Vindictus
Edited by: Lucius Vindictus on 15/07/2011 12:33:38
Originally by: Borza Slavak
Funny old Caldari. Equating the breaking of an employment contract to treason.


By that reasoning the guy that stole your alliance a while ago was just breaking his employment contract too. Yet I remember many of you being a little... upset... about it.


That analogy is stretched so thin I can see daylight through it.

Lucius Vindictus
Amarr
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.15 13:14:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Borza Slavak
That analogy is stretched so thin I can see daylight through it.


Both ex-employees left on bad terms and took things that their former colleague's didn't think was theirs to keep. Seems like the same thing to me...

Desiderya
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2011.07.15 13:24:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Desiderya on 15/07/2011 13:24:04
Originally by: Silvia Ferragano
Edited by: Silvia Ferragano on 15/07/2011 12:44:08

Gallentean values may not have permeated your thick skulls, but it is to be hoped that more heroes like Tukoss find the courage to stand up against those who would chain their people in iron bounds.


If those are gallantean values culminating in a textbook hero I can eschew those qualities without shedding a single tear.
Speaking of values, I prefer backbone, integrity and loyality.

Anabella Rella
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.07.15 16:26:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Diana Kim

Being 'hunted' by republic fleet ships / loyalist minmatard capsuleers won't stop well-trained captain from reaching his goal.




I wouldn't advise any of you to be as cavalier as this pilot. Aggressive incursions into sovereign Minmatar (note the correct spelling Pilot Kim--I suggest you have your translation interface checked) territory will be dealt with appropriately.

A word to the wise should be sufficient.

Diana Kim
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.17 16:35:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Anabella Rella
Originally by: Diana Kim

Being 'hunted' by republic fleet ships / loyalist minmatard capsuleers won't stop well-trained captain from reaching his goal.




I wouldn't advise any of you to be as cavalier as this pilot. Aggressive incursions into sovereign Minmatar (note the correct spelling Pilot Kim--I suggest you have your translation interface checked) territory will be dealt with appropriately.

A word to the wise should be sufficient.



Thank you for your concerning. I'll take that to consideration when I will be planning the operation. I don't sure still if I want to be involved into this mess about scientist, but I assure you, there will be other operations.

N'maro Makari
Posted - 2011.07.17 17:19:00 - [39]
 

Tukoss will be protected, and I will help however I can.

Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.07.17 17:29:00 - [40]
 

Food for thought, for anyone ever put in the position where they could seriously be considering this :

I make a public counter offer for the safe harbouring, and delivery of Hilen Tukoss safe and well to myself, should anyone seek to entertain Vikarion's offer.

The reward for this, will be 5,000,000,000 (Five Billion) Kredits payable on my receipt of the good Doctor alive and well.


Diana Kim
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.17 17:50:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Verone

...and delivery of Hilen Tukoss safe and well to myself...



Just of curiosity: what would YOU do with him? Rolling Eyes

Originally by: Verone

5,000,000,000 (Five Billion)



Why do you need him SO BADLY?

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.07.17 18:27:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Diana Kim
Originally by: Verone

...and delivery of Hilen Tukoss safe and well to myself...



Just of curiosity: what would YOU do with him? Rolling Eyes

Originally by: Verone

5,000,000,000 (Five Billion)



Why do you need him SO BADLY?


Knowing Ethan, he'd probably place Tukoss under his protection. And no, that's not a euphemism.

If I try to explain Ethan's motivations in detail, I'm sure to get something horribly wrong. Suffice to say his past actions suggest an honorable, even good-natured, streak a couple of clicks wide.

Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.07.17 18:28:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Diana Kim
Originally by: Verone

...and delivery of Hilen Tukoss safe and well to myself...



Just of curiosity: what would YOU do with him? Rolling Eyes


I'd allow him to continue his work unmolested, and with our corporate protection.

Originally by: Diana Kim
Originally by: Verone

5,000,000,000 (Five Billion)



Why do you need him SO BADLY?


I don't, but I value his work and I'm interested in the concept of the whole programme.


MarcusFenix2
Posted - 2011.07.17 18:54:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: MarcusFenix2 on 17/07/2011 18:56:04
Edited by: MarcusFenix2 on 17/07/2011 18:55:31
What Vikarion seeks is the work of hired guns and fanatics, not the assistance of a hundred democrats and politicians who argue over nothing while others shed blood for their employer's credit.
We who are loyal to no king or country shall hear the call. Protection and Elimination are all the same to us
Name your price, and consider it done~

Revan Neferis
Amarr
Propaganda Due
Posted - 2011.07.17 19:33:00 - [45]
 

Dr Tukoss has Sani Sabik support as well.
Attempt to harm him and his project will be met with our intervention too.
Make no mistake.


Revan Neferis
Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign
Sani Sabik

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.07.17 19:42:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: MarcusFenix2
What Vikarion seeks is the work of hired guns and fanatics, not the assistance of a hundred democrats and politicians who argue over nothing while others shed blood for their employer's credit.
We who are loyal to no king or country shall hear the call. Protection and Elimination are all the same to us
Name your price, and consider it done~


If protection and elimination are all the same to you, pilot, you might take a look at Ethan's counter-offer.

Diana Kim
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.18 11:28:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Knowing Ethan, he'd probably place Tukoss under his protection. And no, that's not a euphemism.

If I try to explain Ethan's motivations in detail, I'm sure to get something horribly wrong. Suffice to say his past actions suggest an honorable, even good-natured, streak a couple of clicks wide.


I won't question his desire or ability to provide protection. However, there are two things that causes some sort of concern. At first, protection can be organized almost everywhere, you don't need to ask someone to 'bring' you your client. And the second is... ridiculous astronomical sum
Originally by: Verone
5,000,000,000 (Five Billion)

of isks, for...
Originally by: Verone
...and delivery of Hilen Tukoss safe and well to myself...


Well, as I said, I won't question Verone's desire to place Tukoss under his protection, but there is definitely something else.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.07.18 15:52:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 18/07/2011 15:52:45
Originally by: Diana Kim
At first, protection can be organized almost everywhere, you don't need to ask someone to 'bring' you your client. And the second is... ridiculous astronomical sum

Originally by: Verone
5,000,000,000 (Five Billion)


of isks, for...

Originally by: Verone
...and delivery of Hilen Tukoss safe and well to myself...



My understanding is that Ethan's strongest sphere of influence is in his physical proximity (not an unusual trait). In the past, those he's placed under his protection have generally been kept close at hand.

As for the 5 billion, that's most likely just Ethan making sure he's not casually outbid by the likes of Vikarion. Especially for a pirate, he's a very wealthy man. That sum doesn't mean to him what it means to us.

Diana Kim
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.18 16:57:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
My understanding is that Ethan's strongest sphere of influence is in his physical proximity (not an unusual trait). In the past, those he's placed under his protection have generally been kept close at hand.

As for the 5 billion, that's most likely just Ethan making sure he's not casually outbid by the likes of Vikarion. Especially for a pirate, he's a very wealthy man. That sum doesn't mean to him what it means to us.


Well, if we are talking about pirates, they want to get money from everything. They kill for money. Don't you ever think that Verone is going to return his investment (plus all expenditures on security that should be even <censored> greater than this bounty) with interest? What is so <censored> special about this runaway scientist? Should all these shenanigans with bounties continue, I might start to want this scientist for myself ;)

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.07.18 19:03:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 18/07/2011 19:06:09
Originally by: Diana Kim
Well, if we are talking about pirates, they want to get money from everything. They kill for money.


For better or worse, you're mostly thinking of human (or "baseline," or else "conventional") pirates, there, Ms. Kim. Raiding trading routes, stealing cargo, and capturing prisoners for ransom or to be sold into slavery: those are games humans play with each other.

Capsuleer pirates are a different case.

See, it's easy to make a living as a capsuleer hunting conventional ships, but hunting your fellow capsuleers you have to do extremely well to break even, at least in lowsec. Capsuleers as a group are exceedingly difficult prey: the ones who carry valuable cargo tend to be evasive in the extreme. The ones you can catch often have little of value, and, what's more, are frequently sitting out there in the open in the same way as a spider sits "exposed" in the middle of its web.

As an example, it's a maxim among pirates that a lone drake is always a trap. (That is, it's never smart to assume otherwise.)

Now, it's true that you can make a bit of profit from ransoming your targets, but, again, you have to maintain a very high success rate to pull that off, and holding fire to negotiate a ransom (even briefly) exposes you to additional risk.

If you want to get rich as a capsuleer, be an industrial baron or a commodities trader. Pirates are typically pretty poor. They (at times, "we") generally commit piracy for reasons other than greed.

In other words, I'm not entirely sure where all of Ethan Verone's wealth comes from, but it's almost certainly not from piracy. Though he claims to be "human" as they day he was born, the economics of piracy just work differently for capsuleers. Human or not, that's what he is.

Veto has long maintained what I understand to be a strong industrial auxiliary. If you want to know how Ethan got rich, that seems like a good starting spot.

Quote:
Don't you ever think that Verone is going to return his investment (plus all expenditures on security that should be even <censored> greater than this bounty) with interest?


Maybe. I imagine a lot depends on what he thinks he's investing in. He probably doesn't expect the payoff to be monetary.

Quote:
What is so <censored> special about this runaway scientist? Should all these shenanigans with bounties continue, I might start to want this scientist for myself ;)


A lot of it seems symbolic, at this point.

Gar, argh, how dare he violate his duties to corporation and State! Gar, argh, how dare you; we'll never let you take him back!

There are real issues here, of course-- maintaining proprietary knowledge versus openly sharing it with all and sundry (including Sansha's Nation in the persons of Dr. Moros and his ilk, which strikes me as kind of stupid), for one. But these kind of get lost in all the yelling about treason.

Diana Kim
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.18 21:12:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
If you want to know how Ethan got rich, that seems like a good starting spot.

I assure you, it's not what I am interested in. I do not care about money much in general and in these bounties in particular. If I will be ordered to kill this runaway scientist, I will do it without hesitation disregarding any bounties placed on him to bring him alive to one or another person.

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Quote:
Don't you ever think that Verone is going to return his investment (plus all expenditures on security that should be even <censored> greater than this bounty) with interest?

Maybe. I imagine a lot depends on what he thinks he's investing in. He probably doesn't expect the payoff to be monetary.

I am well aware that profit is not always monetary. And sometimes you can't measure your gain in monetary equivalent, but you can feel that your payoff is much greater than your investment. What can it be? I don't know. But there is one word that is keep running through my head. Weapon.

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
There are real issues here, of course-- maintaining proprietary knowledge versus openly sharing it with all and sundry

Some knowledge is better to keep out of reach of general public. Mostly for their own well-being.

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
But these kind of get lost in all the yelling about treason.


Generally I will agree with those who call him traitor. However, from military point of view, this figure or runaway scientist is insignificant. Let compare him, for example, with Ishuk-Raata pilots. Our scientist run to minmatar research firm, while Ishuk-Raata signed blue pact with gallente military corporation. I-REDs flied with FDU pilots and were aggressing and destroying State vessels, and I didn't heard yet that our Doctor attacked a single one.

What harm can he bring to the State except property theft? I have no idea. I don't know why people start screaming "get him, get him". Maybe I don't understand everything, maybe there is somewhere this weapon or whatever. Well, if he will prove himself as real enemy or threat to the State, I will do whatever I can to get rid of him. Because this is my duty, and not because someone want to prove his loyalty by waving his wallet before my eyes.

Kerron Dex Ormand
Posted - 2011.07.18 23:15:00 - [52]
 

Man Hilen Tukoss the caldari they want your ass like white on rice!!!
I mean I saw computer terminal's all over the sector with a bounty on this guy's head
my advice clone a new body that looks different and lay low.....
I'm just sayin'

kerron was here

Jason Galente
Gallente
mishima ryu
Posted - 2011.07.19 03:02:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Kerron Dex Ormand
Man Hilen Tukoss the caldari they want your ass like white on rice!!!
I mean I saw computer terminal's all over the sector with a bounty on this guy's head
my advice clone a new body that looks different and lay low.....
I'm just sayin'

kerron was here


Something tells me that alone wouldn't work. Neutral


Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.07.19 11:38:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Vikarion
The former Caldari Hilen Tukoss has seen fit to steal assets from his corporation, betray his country in time of war, and void the investment and faith placed in him by his employers. He has shamed his family, disgraced himself, and worse, convinced others to join him in treason. He is a traitor to the State, to his ancestors, and to everything the Caldari hold dear. And in aiding our enemies, he makes himself responsible for future Caldari deaths and defeats.


Sounds like a pretty cool guy. Know if he needs a job?


Rek Jaiga
Minmatar
Crimson Path
Posted - 2011.07.25 02:04:00 - [55]
 

I must echo the sentiments of Dr. Doyle, Mr. Verone, and Madame Neferis. While I understand the traditional Caldari point of view that researchers under contract must honor the terms of the contract, I disagree with such a view. Scientists and engineers have a moral obligation to prevent their research and designs from being used in a way that would result in suffering or death. While I have no clue what the nature of the research was, as the lead scientist it was Dr. Tukoss's right to blow the whistle and prevent the abuse of scientific knowledge.

GrammarNazi
SOMER Blink
Cognitive Development
Posted - 2011.08.10 01:11:00 - [56]
 

Despite my personal distaste for dishonesty, I find myself agreeing with Verone. If the State places such a high value on the head of this man, why offer such a mean sum to recapture him?

You're going to have to do better than that to get the attention of professional capsuleers, Vikarion. Especially since it seems there would be more value in helping the fugitive than delivering him to you.

Generica Brutallis
Posted - 2011.08.10 10:29:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Diana Kim


Originally by: Verone

5,000,000,000 (Five Billion)



Why do you need him SO BADLY?


That amount of money could fall out of Ethan Verone's pocket in a bar and he wouldn't notice.

Eipok Kruden
Caldari
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
Posted - 2011.08.16 18:32:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Mizhara Del'thul
Such a pity...

I was one of the more vocal voices for friendly terms with the State, and I would have gone to great lengths not to perform hostile actions against State vessels outside of Republic space. I never considered the Caldari to be hostiles as much as a politically unfortunate and temporary inconvenience in the fight against the Empire. My own sister, sharing my name but not blood, is Civire. Through her, and others, I have seen such great similarities between the Caldari and Minmatar. A great deal more, at least, than there is between the Tribes and Federation.

Separated only by unfortunate political reasons, we have no ideological nor practical reason to be enemies, especially considering that we could have been family...

This knee-jerk reaction, coupled with such hostility towards the Tribes who are only enemies of the State as long as the State are allies with the Empire... well, it changes things. Maybe enough that it can't even be repaired. You loyalist State capsuleers are doing much right now to set the hostility in stone, ensuring that there will be further violence and military action between our peoples.

A real pity... when the only real sins either of us have committed against the other was to reach out for aid from the only ones who stretched out a hand during our times of greatest need. And now... now that neither of us have such a need anymore, and could have stood aside and allowed each other peace on one front to focus on our own real enemies... war is ensured by those who fear the past.

Be mournful, State loyalists... you are destroying something before it's even born.
It is sad, indeed, but as stated by Vikarion, loyalty is more than just a word for us Caldari. I may not like Amarr' beliefs, especially since I do not believe in any God at all, let alone theirs, however (despite what I'd originally expected), all of my interactions with them have been conducted politely and ended favourably. Yes, it was an alliance born from necessity, but that does not mean that it can be discarded as easily as you suggest. We are allies. No matter the circumstances on which our alliance was built, it still stands, and it stands strong, built now not just of usefulness but of trust. For you to suggest we break such trust so easily shows that you do not truly understand us, nor have you ever.

Originally by: Borza Slavak
Funny old Caldari. Equating the breaking of an employment contract to treason.
For a nation entirely composed of Corporations, lacking in the government your Gallente pals think so highly of, breaking an employment contract to work for the enemy IS treason. As Vikarion said, the problem is not that Tukoss left Zainou, but that he left it to work for enemies of the state!

For you to show such contempt and such a profound lack of understanding towards even the most basic aspects of the Caldari Nation highlights, better than anything, your place as our enemy.

Dilaro thagriin
Posted - 2011.08.16 18:50:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Eipok Kruden

Originally by: Borza Slavak
Funny old Caldari. Equating the breaking of an employment contract to treason.
For a nation entirely composed of Corporations, lacking in the government your Gallente pals think so highly of, breaking an employment contract to work for the enemy IS treason. As Vikarion said, the problem is not that Tukoss left Zainou, but that he left it to work for enemies of the state!


So.. let me get this absolutely clear in my mind.

You are openly claiming that Eifyr & Co are direct enemies of the Caldari state?
Interesting.

I suppose that you have undeniable proof that the company has performed activities against the Caldari people? I also suppose that their implants and other technologies are not on sale throughout the Caldari state.

No. Neither of these claims are in the slightest part true.

You Mr Kruden, have just made the far worse claim that the entire Matari people are enemies of the Caldari state. This is untrue and an obviously racially charged slur against my people.

I truly hope you consider your words more carefully in the future.

- D. Thagriin


Pages: 1 [2]

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only