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bozywor
Posted - 2011.08.22 12:35:00 - [241]
 

With all that high-tek in eve , why anyone invent uncloacking upgrade to system ? Even prototype that can decloack 1 time per day

Nakayme Caonis
Posted - 2011.08.22 19:10:00 - [242]
 

I see how it is. NOW you want my ship. You guys should have voted for it a year ago and got me a new computer in the process;

http://nakayme.deviantart.com/art/ESDC-Lami-Destroyer-182598998

No, seriously, posted because a friend was commenting on this, and I already thought up a system on how this can be implemented. The point is not to nerf cloaking, but to give players a tool to make repercussions FOR cloakers. 0.0 isn't safe - highsec isn't even safe. This just adds a little bit of realism to it. Cloaking can still give you an advantage - extra time to scout. And a good cloaker and a good runner will be able to avoid a hunting party like this for a good amount of time - half an hour, an hour, depending on how big the fleet chasing him is. But it does modify the balance and make things that much more difficult.

Besides, who doesn't wanna jump through a stargate and go: "'BAM!', I see you stealth bomber fleet that has been camping this gate! And so does the rest of my fleet that just jumped through, too!"

Loki Feiht
Posted - 2011.08.22 19:20:00 - [243]
 

hm if this were real life cloakers wouldnt be able to log so would need to go 'afk' for sleep times.....
The only logical suggestion in this thread so far IS the specialized ship idea (new destroyer + extra mini game = win), maybe add a warning sound to the cloakers so they know they're being decloaked aswell?


Nakayme Caonis
Posted - 2011.08.22 19:25:00 - [244]
 

Originally by: Loki Feiht
hm if this were real life cloakers wouldnt be able to log so would need to go 'afk' for sleep times.....
The only logical suggestion in this thread so far IS the specialized ship idea (new destroyer + extra mini game = win), maybe add a warning sound to the cloakers so they know they're being decloaked aswell?



Would the uncloaking warning bell sound like this?
"Danger Will Robinson, Danger!"
I would hope so.

Loki Feiht
Posted - 2011.08.22 19:39:00 - [245]
 

personalized warning tones, i'd support that - mine would be "say what again mother....."

Eta Carinea
Posted - 2011.08.23 08:56:00 - [246]
 

If it is accepted that AFK cloaking is zero risk then something needs to be done, the difficult thing is what?

Removing local, would require the afk Pilot to simply type something into local every 10 minutes or so to have the same effect as letting everyone know he is around, this does not introduce any more risk but is now semi afk.

Perhaps a system that enables you to find the pilot with time and effort but then all the pilot would need do is move from safe spot to safe spot every x minutes. a common practice by non cloaky ships, This introduces, a small amount of risk but i would say itís not exactly a balance if all the pilot has to do is move every twenty minutes or so this provides as above a small amount of risk and semi afk status.

One option that would increase the risk and deal with the afk is a random probe success anywhere from 3 minutes to say 20 minutes that would give a guarantee warp point by use of a specialised trained for probe. This gaurantees risk and ensures afk is not an option. IMHO





rootimus maximus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.23 09:03:00 - [247]
 

Originally by: Miang Hawaa
It is tragic that I have to spell this out for you.

An enemy's presence in a system causes numerous problems for locals.


Actually, it causes a single problem: they might kill you. Unless they're AFK, in which case they're completely harmless.

Vitamin B12
Posted - 2011.08.23 10:07:00 - [248]
 

Edited by: Vitamin B12 on 23/08/2011 10:08:44
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Your character should not have an impact on other players while you are absent from your computer. Your character should not profit while you are not playing the game


damn it. we totaly should remove trading. and production. and invention. and planetary interaction. and research. and corp tax...........

Nakayme Caonis
Posted - 2011.08.23 10:18:00 - [249]
 

Edited by: Nakayme Caonis on 23/08/2011 10:20:38
Edited by: Nakayme Caonis on 23/08/2011 10:20:28
Originally by: Eta Carinea
If it is accepted that AFK cloaking is zero risk then something needs to be done, the difficult thing is what?

Removing local, would require the afk Pilot to simply type something into local every 10 minutes or so to have the same effect as letting everyone know he is around, this does not introduce any more risk but is now semi afk.

Perhaps a system that enables you to find the pilot with time and effort but then all the pilot would need do is move from safe spot to safe spot every x minutes. a common practice by non cloaky ships, This introduces, a small amount of risk but i would say itís not exactly a balance if all the pilot has to do is move every twenty minutes or so this provides as above a small amount of risk and semi afk status.

One option that would increase the risk and deal with the afk is a random probe success anywhere from 3 minutes to say 20 minutes that would give a guarantee warp point by use of a specialised trained for probe. This gaurantees risk and ensures afk is not an option. IMHO



The idea isn't to completely take away the effectiveness of cloaking - merely to give players a way to fight back against stealth targets - defend their systems, engage cloaked convoys, track down that Titan that is cloaked and trying to log out...

But as I said - it makes it more difficult - and obviously, the idea of this thread is to make it more difficult for the cloaked individual.
Now, of course, you can warp around and avoid being detected. However, it does generally take time to manage warping, however minute, and that requires setting up warp points to warp to, as well as using them.

If you really wanted to stick it to them (the cloaker) though and equal things out, all CCP would have to do (and this would probably require a decent amount of coding change) would be to reset the scanning progress of each signature every time that someone enters warp. Every time the cloaker warps, he has to start scanning again. This would seriously cripple the ability to find a site to attack - and certainly increase the amount of time.

However, it should be noted that most people are too lazy to enter warp, over and over again - and that the detector class destroyer, in this case, would have the advantage - it only has to find the cloaked target once.
One thing to note is that a cloaked harassment ship is often smaller than the large ships that capsuleers use to rat or mine in. They would be harder to detect due to their small signature radius - except that the cloaked probes are not looking for an exact location - merely something within maybe 50-100km of the target.
The cloaked ship can still warp away after this - but its cloaking device will be disabled for a period of time, which does make it susceptible to having its pinpoint location scanned down.
Does this mean the ship will be caught?
No.
Can CCP take this one step further and say that the pulse would actually temporarily offline the navigational computer of the ship, preventing it from warping out? If the ship had in fact used a cloaking device in x so many seconds (as a minimum, due to the cloaking delay of some ships being zilch), it could do just that.

But any changes to the cloaking system or detecting cloakies would change much more than just searching for 'AFK cloakies', and any changes in the system should be made to remember that.
Imagine, cloaking a titan, being found, and not being able to jump out for 20-30 seconds as a result?
Or being in a stealth-bomber gatecamp fleet (which are very popular for some alliances!) and suddenly having your entire fleet of stealth bombers unable to warp away while a battleship group comes through the gate.
Or even getting caught this way while flying one of those cloaking blockade runners... Might be worth getting Concorded to prevent a runner's escape in highsec!

Pros and Cons aside, this would certainly be one way to bring more PvP fleets into contact.

Stealth Cookie, anyone? Cloakies!

Nakayme Caonis
Posted - 2011.08.23 10:23:00 - [250]
 

Originally by: Vitamin B12
Edited by: Vitamin B12 on 23/08/2011 10:08:44
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Your character should not have an impact on other players while you are absent from your computer. Your character should not profit while you are not playing the game


damn it. we totaly should remove trading. and production. and invention. and planetary interaction. and research. and corp tax...........


You forgot to mention Quafe Sales. My character drinks 3,924 24oz bottles of Quafe a day while I am offline, and the number continues to grow daily. Do you know how long I have to GRIND to make enough isk to satisfy her addiction? I say no Quafe, and she just goes and starts drinking again as soon as I log off! It's a never-ending battle!

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.23 13:50:00 - [251]
 

Really. Hmph.

The problem isn't cloakers, whether they are at their console or not.

Covops ships are already gimped regarding PvP, and don't pose a significant threat to well prepared players.

The problem is cynos.

If any ship in space can become an entire fleet in less time than a reasonably fit/skilled opponent can kill it when it is right next to them, that is a problem.

Covops players should need to act, well, covertly to get their job done.

Flying right up to your target and decloaking with less ship than is needed to get the job done isn't very covert. The SEALs would laugh in your face if you suggested such a tactic to them.

Put a one minute timer on cynos, allow specialized ships bonuses to cut that in half. People will adopt new tactics to deal with it (at least the ones who aren't too stuck on having them as an iWin button with little risk).



foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.08.23 14:17:00 - [252]
 

Originally by: Newt Rondanse
The SEALs would laugh in your face if you suggested such a tactic to them.


Really? Cause if I told them that one guy could charge in, place 40 tanks in the room from across the country, and loose nothing but his T-shirt, they would ask me where to sign up for that.

Newt Rondanse
Posted - 2011.08.23 14:28:00 - [253]
 

Originally by: foksieloy
Originally by: Newt Rondanse
The SEALs would laugh in your face if you suggested such a tactic to them.


Really? Cause if I told them that one guy could charge in, place 40 tanks in the room from across the country, and loose nothing but his T-shirt, they would ask me where to sign up for that.

Well yeah, but that one guy *still* wouldn't show his face if he didn't have to.

Besides, the tanks would be much more useful outside the room.

Tomaso Yoshitome
Posted - 2011.08.23 14:43:00 - [254]
 

Frankly, if you can't deal with an AFK cloaker by putting a defense fleet up, or having guards accompanying your Hulks, you deserve to lose your ship. I put it to you, that in fact, with these measures in place, an AFK cloaker, whilst AFK, has no tactical advantage, and poses no threat whatsoever. The only harm he inflicts by his presence is the fear factor. If you can't handle that by recognizing fear as an integral element of 0.0 life, or be organized enough to eliminate its impact on ISK production by working with other players, then you should go back to high-sec where you can grind your ISK feeling safe.

When the cloaker engages a target, then he is at equal, if not more risk than the target he is attacking. He's deep in hostile territory, with a local filled with reds, and likely dozens more in the surrounding systems. The whole point of guerrilla warfare is to tie up a disproportionate amount of resources to the level of threat posed - it would be a shame to see this tactic removed from EVE because incompetent carebears can't PVP, and whine on the forums instead of taking matters into their own hands.

Nakayme Caonis
Posted - 2011.08.23 17:22:00 - [255]
 

Originally by: Tomaso Yo****ome
The whole point of guerrilla warfare is to tie up a disproportionate amount of resources to the level of threat posed


Thank you for pointing this out. It would still take a disproportionate amount of resources to achieve tracking down and dealing with the cloaked target. So the objective of the Guerilla Warfare would still be achieved. The only difference is how long would the cloaked hostile, IE, the Guerilla, be able to project this effect. Due to the current game mechanics, this is an infinite amount of time.

However, should the mechanics be changed in a manner that neutralizes this, it might take half an hour to two hours to track down that hostile or neutral. It might also take the neutral or hostile that long to trek back to the target system.

Originally by: Tomaso Yo****ome
Frankly, if you can't deal with an AFK cloaker by putting a defense fleet up...


Another Valid Point. Thank you for agreeing with me.

Yet, due to the manpower it would take to track down the cloaked target - the objective of Guerilla warfare in this sense would still be achieved. The difference is that the defence fleet would have the ability to proactively do something about the situation, rather than having to wait. Keep in mind - most defence fleets guarding hulks are making 0 isk, just like the guy out there doing the cloaked harassment. This would encourage player interaction, whereas the current system encourages player disinteraction, in this case - harassment.

The capabilities of covert ops and their brethren to engage in their primary combat objectives - using black ops ships to warp in tons of stealth bombers, blow up lots of targets, and warp out before the enemy has a chance to respond, would still remain unaffected. If you intend to do something - you are going to do it before the enemy can form a response fleet - and you should. If your targets are smart enough to head to a POS and wait for a defence fleet to arrive, well, that intelligent response mechanic hasn't changed, now has it? Still, you are costing that ops fleet or group of locals isk while they must remain POS'ed up and unable to make use of their time. Mission accomplished.

Rather, I like to think that being aggressive and harassing should feature some form of forethought, planning, combined with a cunning delivery of destruction and death. These changes would encourage players that use covert-ops ships to work together in fleets to accomplish these goals, which is somewhat the point of 0.0. It would not completely disable the point or capabilities of the harassment - merely limit the length.
But as you say, if someone in 0.0 can't deal with harassing a defence fleet that can find them and kill them, they're always welcome to return to highsec and flip cans like a carebear pirate.

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.08.23 18:03:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: Nakayme Caonis
Stuff


Well on the other hand, by neutralizing this tactic by having CCP do it for you, you will see a lot more blobs landing on your door step and then you do not have to worry about shagging down elusive AFK cloakers.

It is pretty simple really, by taking away "something" from Null, they will find another way to make your life hell.

It is Null space after all...right?

After you have had your ass handed to you a number of times, you will then head back to hi-sec and get ganked by carebear pirates that do not really employ that cloaking tactic.


Nakayme Caonis
Posted - 2011.08.23 18:57:00 - [257]
 

Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: Nakayme Caonis
Stuff


Well on the other hand, by neutralizing this tactic by having CCP do it for you, you will see a lot more blobs landing on your door step and then you do not have to worry about shagging down elusive AFK cloakers.

It is pretty simple really, by taking away "something" from Null, they will find another way to make your life hell.

It is Null space after all...right?

After you have had your ass handed to you a number of times, you will then head back to hi-sec and get ganked by carebear pirates that do not really employ that cloaking tactic.




You are talking about replacing operations done in groups of 1 to 15 or so, with larger scale, militarized incursions. This would be extremely unlikely.
Larger scale militarized incursions happen on a per alliance basis, and one is not going to replace a 15 man fleet that might have an isk risk of 1B isk (although this will most likely be more along the lines of 100M isk at max, which is worth sacrificing if you can kill just one hulk or orca), with a 100+ man fleet that has an isk-risk of 5B isk or more.
If they can - they are welcome to do so. Isn't that what 0.0 is about? Having fun, controlling space, and bashing heads with your less than friendly neighbours? And if they can - they are probably already doing so. Those people that can lead such large groups that also do the covert op squads - do the covert ops squads for fun when they don't want to lead a larger fleet.

That being said - smaller fleet covert ops squads of 3-15 people would see relatively no change at all. The only difference is that they have an amount of time to make their strike in, and might not have an opportunity before they are kicked out.
That's why you send 1-2 low isk covert ops frigates, light a Covert Cyno, and have a Black Ops ship jump your guys in. Precision, Control, and no contest. These changes aren't going to dramatically affect the lives of anyone whom is honestly going to engage the target. They're searching for a target and will generally move on if there is none. And there will be plenty of targets of opportunity just as there are now - this isn't a change that automatically makes people warp to a POS whenever a neutral or hostile comes into local. As they say - you can't cure stupid.

As for incursions done by individuals - these will make it more difficult for the individual to harass a group. He will only be able to keep it up for so long. Is he going to rage and spawn a blob? No, not really. If he had a group, he'd probably have a group in doing this. He is welcome to try to organize a fleet if his group even allows him to FC, but chances are, he's just doing it for his own ****s and giggles and fun, and while they may have the blessings of their alliance in doing so, he probably doesn't have the alliance's support.

To compare small groups having their capabilities nerfed and resulting in big blobs is like comparing apples and oranges. 0.0 groups are going to replace apples with apples - or pears, at best.

As for getting ganked by 'carebear pirates', I'm pretty sure that is a risk anytime you undock in highsec. That will exist if you return from 0.0 or never go to 0.0. Simple solution? If you aren't willing to take that risk, go play something like the World of Warcraft. But make sure you don't play on a PvP server if you do so!

PS: You guys should really consider how this will affect other aspects and fleets in EVE. There's absolutely no debate on that in here at all - merely talk about how people are griping. There's always two sides to a balancing argument - often more.

PSS: There are plenty non-carebear pirates in highsec. IMHO, if you have the knowledge to gank and profit, you aren't a carebear pirate. I proudly support such said piracy as a part of EVE online gameplay. If only we had a hunting season for idiots in RL.

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.08.23 21:49:00 - [258]
 

Edited by: Baaldor on 23/08/2011 21:51:05
Originally by: Nakayme Caonis

Again more stuff



If said group can no longer use the tactic to stop or slow the farming of isk to fuel their towers or replace ships, then said group will employ other methods to do so.

It is really easy to get 20 or 30 null bears together on a slosh op to **** off the neighbors. You seem to be unaware of this...considering it happens all of the time.

I would think given the choice, the jewbear would just hop next door to rat or plex to avoid the AFK cloaker, verses getting their **** pushed in by a group fast moving *******s.

Oh and by the way, the term "pirate" is thrown around fairly loosely by peeps that have no clue what one was if they came up a bit them on the bum. Just stop.








Nakayme Caonis
Posted - 2011.08.23 22:05:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: Baaldor
Edited by: Baaldor on 23/08/2011 21:51:05
Originally by: Nakayme Caonis

Again more stuff



If said group can no longer use the tactic to stop or slow the farming of isk to fuel their towers or replace ships, then said group will employ other methods to do so.

It is really easy to get 20 or 30 null bears together on a slosh op to **** off the neighbors. You seem to be unaware of this...considering it happens all of the time.

I would think given the choice, the jewbear would just hop next door to rat or plex to avoid the AFK cloaker, verses getting their **** pushed in by a group fast moving *******s.

Oh and by the way, the term "pirate" is thrown around fairly loosely by peeps that have no clue what one was if they came up a bit them on the bum. Just stop.



I don't consider a 20-30 man fleet to be a large fleet or even a blob fleet. But it's certainly larger than the number of covert ops pilots that it takes to pull off a successful operation - especially amongst guerilla warfare scenarios.

If you had 20-30 people to spend and wanted to do covert ops fleets, you could harass an entire constellation and trollolol your way around for hours, which actually would be more effective way of disrupting your enemy than getting a 20-30 man fleet and attacking them head on.

I am quite aware of numerical scenarios. Perhaps you really ought to consider them yourself. Or are you afraid to do a nullsec covert operation assault without having 20-30 people with the way the game mechanics currently work?

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.08.23 23:53:00 - [260]
 

Edited by: Baaldor on 23/08/2011 23:53:10
Originally by: Nakayme Caonis
Or are you afraid to do a nullsec covert operation assault without having 20-30 people with the way the game mechanics currently work?


1- Please tell me more of what I supposedly have or have not done.

2- You obviously have no ****ing clue how current mechanics work.

Nakayme Caonis
Posted - 2011.08.24 00:10:00 - [261]
 

Edited by: Nakayme Caonis on 24/08/2011 00:12:19
Originally by: Baaldor
Edited by: Baaldor on 23/08/2011 23:53:10
Originally by: Nakayme Caonis
Or are you afraid to do a nullsec covert operation assault without having 20-30 people with the way the game mechanics currently work?


1- Please tell me more of what I supposedly have or have not done.

2- You obviously have no ****ing clue how current mechanics work.


You are comparing different magnitudes - comparing apples and oranges. Whenever you have a group of 20 people, it will have a much more numerically significant influence on matters than the number 5.

Those 1-5 people that make a covert ops fleet are not going to cast mirror images of themselves and become 20-30. If they instead attack head on, they are going to be a group of 1-5, not 20-30. There ARE fleets of 20-30 covert ops, yes, and they can certainly do wickedly sick things.
However, the QUANTITATIVE MAJORITY of them are within the 1-5 man size range. Anything larger than that is an irregularity, that while worth noting the impacts of - does not mean that every single outcome will - or even has the possibility, of resulting in that outcome. Mathematically, 5 does not equal 20, and certainly not 30, and so it is very much impossible.
Learn to count on more than your 8 fingers and two thumbs and you might be able to appreciate numerical terms.

What you have and have not done makes no impact on the overall statistics of EVE. You can try to ignore this, but you will be wrong. And your ignorance in the matter is exactly why I am not going to re-address you again after this post.

Kogh Ayon
Posted - 2011.08.24 07:39:00 - [262]
 

Edited by: Kogh Ayon on 24/08/2011 07:42:19
Originally by: Nakayme Caonis
Edited by: Nakayme Caonis on 24/08/2011 00:12:19
Originally by: Baaldor
Edited by: Baaldor on 23/08/2011 23:53:10
Originally by: Nakayme Caonis
Or are you afraid to do a nullsec covert operation assault without having 20-30 people with the way the game mechanics currently work?


1- Please tell me more of what I supposedly have or have not done.

2- You obviously have no ****ing clue how current mechanics work.


You are comparing different magnitudes - comparing apples and oranges. Whenever you have a group of 20 people, it will have a much more numerically significant influence on matters than the number 5.

Those 1-5 people that make a covert ops fleet are not going to cast mirror images of themselves and become 20-30. If they instead attack head on, they are going to be a group of 1-5, not 20-30. There ARE fleets of 20-30 covert ops, yes, and they can certainly do wickedly sick things.
However, the QUANTITATIVE MAJORITY of them are within the 1-5 man size range. Anything larger than that is an irregularity, that while worth noting the impacts of - does not mean that every single outcome will - or even has the possibility, of resulting in that outcome. Mathematically, 5 does not equal 20, and certainly not 30, and so it is very much impossible.
Learn to count on more than your 8 fingers and two thumbs and you might be able to appreciate numerical terms.

What you have and have not done makes no impact on the overall statistics of EVE. You can try to ignore this, but you will be wrong. And your ignorance in the matter is exactly why I am not going to re-address you again after this post.

AFK cloaking
Have a look->10ppl rating->Go AFK
Watching a movie
Have a look->3ppl rating->Check our side->5ppl only->Go AFK
Take lunch
Have a look->3ppl ratin->Check our side->15ppl->Black op in pos. Fleet. Tackle. Gank.
One day each.
Feel free to make any trap to trade your battleship for my bomber.

Aryndel Vyst
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.24 15:16:00 - [263]
 

I am afk cloaking right now while i make this post. Chew on that.

Ajunta Pul
Posted - 2011.08.26 14:14:00 - [264]
 


Andy Landen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.27 12:51:00 - [265]
 

I agree with the OP. The problem, as I see it, comes with the combination of the extended afk cloak COMBINED with the cyno. Since anything can be brought through the cyno, a small pvp gang of 8-10 simply will not suffice as a defense against a single, risk-less, afk cloaker. I have seen dozens of supercaps, a dozen titans, dozens of carriers, and other ships jump through a cyno. While you could go to the next system, I am seeing more and more afk cloakers so that most systems are now being cloaky-cyno camped by them.

Here are two ideas: 1) Automatic log-off for any character inactive for 1 hour. Meaning absolutely no interface with the Eve client for an hour straight. 2) Auto-decloak after 30 minutes. A message comes up alerting the player of the time remaining before auto-decloak. The player simply has to re-cloak (meaning be at the keyboard). Could be something about the ability of the ship to maintain cloak for a finite amount of time continuously. 3) Mobile cyno jammer ship. Add that ability to a HIC. Have it activate on an IHUB or sov structure so the ship can be scanned down and destroyed by a small gang if unsupported. Optional: Require blue standings to sov holder to prevent neuts/reds from jamming the system.

Andy Landen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.27 13:05:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: Nakayme Caonis
I see how it is. NOW you want my ship. You guys should have voted for it a year ago and got me a new computer in the process;

http://nakayme.deviantart.com/art/ESDC-Lami-Destroyer-182598998

No, seriously, posted because a friend was commenting on this, and I already thought up a system on how this can be implemented. The point is not to nerf cloaking, but to give players a tool to make repercussions FOR cloakers. 0.0 isn't safe - highsec isn't even safe. This just adds a little bit of realism to it. Cloaking can still give you an advantage - extra time to scout. And a good cloaker and a good runner will be able to avoid a hunting party like this for a good amount of time - half an hour, an hour, depending on how big the fleet chasing him is. But it does modify the balance and make things that much more difficult.

Besides, who doesn't wanna jump through a stargate and go: "'BAM!', I see you stealth bomber fleet that has been camping this gate! And so does the rest of my fleet that just jumped through, too!"

Really, Really cool idea! +1 I would suggest no decloaker as it could be very OP at gates, but cloaking scan probes can probe to zero, but the time between scans is several minutes AND requires a system-wide warpable field active so that the cloakers can warp directly to or near the prober for intel on fleet comp or for attack.

AmarrPriceStamp Lazair
Posted - 2011.08.27 15:09:00 - [267]
 

How about bringing some friends while you rat in Nullsec?

If you want risk-free PVE and you can't make any friends to help you, go to Highsec. Rolling Eyes

Saul Dhampir
Caldari
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.08.28 23:54:00 - [268]
 


Why do think the original poster is ratter and anomaly runner, probably in a pet alliance, stuffed away under another alliances protection who had probably never had to fight for the space they exploit. Who want's everything easy and zero risk. Who probably runs and docks up when a red fleet comes down a pipe instead of fighting for the right to be there in the first place.

Sorry love. There is no 100% safety.

- It does not define exploit.
- Not everyone 'knows' it's a problem. Only free riders like you think it is.
- Nothing is being done because it's perfectly reasonable and people need to deal with stuff like that in your little ISK making playground.

I think you should stick to Hi-Sec. Or maybe nice cookie cutter MMO where you can't lose anything and pvp is consensual.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.08.29 04:09:00 - [269]
 

The day when AFK cloaked ship kills anyone is the day we may seriously start talking about nerfs to cloaking.

So far that hasn't happened

Hallacar
Posted - 2011.08.30 02:41:00 - [270]
 

How can the botters make a respectable living with the risk that the afk camper may lite a cyno ?

I'm outraged too !$%#!!


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