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Mai Terrak
Posted - 2011.08.13 12:33:00 - [181]
 

Now, most have been bantering back and forth about 'OMG AFK cloakers ruin the game' and 'STFU whiner'. Now I agree that cloaking is part of the game, and that there should be that feel of psychological warfare, but I also agree with the not having the person afk. maybe adding a mechanic in where the person has to click a dialog box every half hour when there is no activity, booting them from the game (Hell do this with anyone that's just afking in general.)

Or maybe requiring some sort of fuel source for the cloaking ships would be a better solution. This would make the cloaker have to think a bit too as they would have to plan just how long they could stay out before having to get out and refuel.

Just my two cents into the whole conversation.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.14 00:25:00 - [182]
 

Originally by: Mai Terrak
Now, most have been bantering back and forth about 'OMG AFK cloakers ruin the game' and 'STFU whiner'. Now I agree that cloaking is part of the game, and that there should be that feel of psychological warfare, but I also agree with the not having the person afk. maybe adding a mechanic in where the person has to click a dialog box every half hour when there is no activity, booting them from the game (Hell do this with anyone that's just afking in general.)

Or maybe requiring some sort of fuel source for the cloaking ships would be a better solution. This would make the cloaker have to think a bit too as they would have to plan just how long they could stay out before having to get out and refuel.

Just my two cents into the whole conversation.


Proposed countless times before and reject just as many times.

Dub Step
Minmatar
Death To Everyone But Us
Posted - 2011.08.14 02:02:00 - [183]
 

The problem is not with the cloaker, but with the cowards that can't accept 0.0 involves risk.

Diablo Ex
Caldari
The Devil's Reject's
Posted - 2011.08.14 05:01:00 - [184]
 

I sit in my little tissue box, hidden from view and marvel at the pathetic creatures who live in null sec, and REFUSE to defend themselves or their turf. All it would take is a few noble PvP pilots to stand over-watch on the fleet of miners, or guard the convoy. But ...NO, they cry foul, unfair...


Cynoska McNamara
Posted - 2011.08.14 08:11:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Diablo Ex
I sit in my little tissue box, hidden from view and marvel at the pathetic creatures who live in null sec, and REFUSE to defend themselves or their turf. All it would take is a few noble PvP pilots to stand over-watch on the fleet of miners, or guard the convoy. But ...NO, they cry foul, unfair...


And what about intel infos that a AFK cloacker could collect for enemy alliances without the possibility to expel it? Owners of a system should be able to repel an enemy. The cloak module makes a spy invulnerable and untouchable.

The real cryer are AFK cloackers who do not want to lose this privilege.

Dub Step
Minmatar
Death To Everyone But Us
Posted - 2011.08.14 09:05:00 - [186]
 

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara


The real cryer are AFK cloackers who do not want to lose this privilege.


Considering they are at no risk of losing anything I don't see why.

Also, how do they gather intel if they are AFK?

Looking through your posts it's clear who the real crybaby is in this discussion.

Cynoska McNamara
Posted - 2011.08.14 12:25:00 - [187]
 

Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 14/08/2011 12:34:43
Originally by: Dub Step
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara


The real cryer are AFK cloackers who do not want to lose this privilege.


Considering they are at no risk of losing anything I don't see why.

Also, how do they gather intel if they are AFK?

Looking through your posts it's clear who the real crybaby is in this discussion.

This shows that you do not know the purpose and how the role of AFK cloaker.
There are many tools that capture information about corporations that operate in a system. You let the logs record the names of the pilots and the ships they drive. You can check what are the best time slot to make an attack .. and much more.

And this force the players to operate always under guard, causing a slowdown in the production chain, causing harm to the economy of the alliance.
1000 hours spent AFK + 5 (random) hours spent in piracy = clock bomb effect. You have made ​​a system unusable while you sleep peacefully, or while you're shopping (because we don't know when are you really AFK or when you are waiting for a perfect moment to strike an attack)

You will get bored waiting as we get bored waiting for you.

Dub Step
Minmatar
Death To Everyone But Us
Posted - 2011.08.14 12:41:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 14/08/2011 12:34:43
Originally by: Dub Step
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara


The real cryer are AFK cloackers who do not want to lose this privilege.


Considering they are at no risk of losing anything I don't see why.

Also, how do they gather intel if they are AFK?

Looking through your posts it's clear who the real crybaby is in this discussion.

This shows that you do not know the purpose and how the role of AFK cloaker.
There are many tools that capture information about corporations that operate in a system. You let the logs record the names of the pilots and the ships they drive. You can check what are the best time slot to make an attack .. and much more.

And this force the players to operate always under guard, causing a slowdown in the production chain, causing harm to the economy of the alliance.
1000 hours spent AFK + 5 (random) hours spent in piracy = clock bomb effect. You have made ​​a system unusable while you sleep peacefully, or while you're shopping (because we don't know when are you really AFK or when you are waiting for a perfect moment to strike an attack)

You will get bored waiting as we get bored waiting for you.


my logs dont show that info, maybe you should be petitioning against use of intel gathering macros, not cloaked ships doing noting.

You mention being forced to 'operate under guard'. It's 0.0, you should be doing this anyway. Why shouldn't people be able to influence your economy? This is a key element of warfare.

There is no such thing as piracy in null sec, for piracy to occur there must be laws to be broken.

Again, cloakers DO NOT make a system unusable, your coawardice and unwillingness to do anything while a random ship sits doing no harm is what makes the system unusable. Grow a pair for goodness sake. If you can't handle a single red in your system doing nothing then you don't deserve the right to use that space.

Cynoska McNamara
Posted - 2011.08.14 16:08:00 - [189]
 

Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 14/08/2011 16:11:18
Originally by: Dub Step
You mention being forced to 'operate under guard'. It's 0.0, you should be doing this anyway.

This shows how poor is your 0.0 life as citizen and productor. You are a pirate.. you can't understand.

Your fury against this thread shows how AFK Cloaker is a necessary role to your gameplay.
You call others "cowards" when you're the first to fear a change.
Prove that a cloak device with the fuel (or charge) ruin your game .. then you are right.
Do not hide behind your "You are a carebear".

Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.08.14 16:51:00 - [190]
 

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 14/08/2011 16:11:18
Originally by: Dub Step
You mention being forced to 'operate under guard'. It's 0.0, you should be doing this anyway.

This shows how poor is your 0.0 life as citizen and productor. You are a pirate.. you can't understand.

Your fury against this thread shows how AFK Cloaker is a necessary role to your gameplay.
You call others "cowards" when you're the first to fear a change.
Prove that a cloak device with the fuel (or charge) ruin your game .. then you are right.
Do not hide behind your "You are a carebear".


What kind of 0.0 do you live in where you don't have to take care?

I don't AFK cloak, but I also don't think anythign at all should be done about it. if they are AFK, they aren't going to hurt you, just don't talk in local when there's one in your system and they aren't going to be gathering any intel while AFK.

If cloaking device fuel comes in, all of you NERF CLOAKING idiots will be on here whining about that after the first time you forget to bring cloak fuel and suddenly find yourself completely unable to hide from a hostile gang (I for one put cloaks on my haulers when I do PI ****, I've relied on those several times when roaming gangs roll though).

you ARE a carebear. If there's one red AFK cloaking, just rat with a buddy or two. One guy in a cloaky ship isn't going to take all of you. It's nullsec, HTFU.

Dub Step
Minmatar
Death To Everyone But Us
Posted - 2011.08.14 17:50:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Dub Step
You mention being forced to 'operate under guard'. It's 0.0, you should be doing this anyway.


Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
This shows how poor is your 0.0 life as citizen and productor. You are a pirate.. you can't understand.

You expect to have risk free ratting without protecting yourself and you claim I have the poor understanding. Laughable

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Your fury against this thread shows how AFK Cloaker is a necessary role to your gameplay.

Yes, my reasoned arguments show I am completely enraged by this 'threat' to cloaking. I can't even use a cloaking device and have no intention to waste electricity 'denying service' to other players.

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
You call others "cowards" when you're the first to fear a change.

Prove that a cloak device with the fuel (or charge) ruin your game .. then you are right.


First: I don't fear anything and certainly have no reason to believe these whiny threads are ever going to lead to a change to cloaking.

Second: I can't prove a cloak device with fuel will ruin my game because it wouldn't. You probably meant something else and need to rephrase this statement.

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Do not hide behind your "You are a carebear".

Who's hiding? You clearly are a carebear, a pretty incompetent one at that since you can't seem to find the jumpgate next door, or simply let an afk player stop all your activity.

Furthermore I could say do not hide behind your "You are a pirate", but it's a stupid thing to say so I wont.

Kyr Evotorin
Eye of God
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2011.08.14 20:53:00 - [192]
 

Everyone is so mad... can't we just ignore the people who are obviously lacking logic?

intel channel(s)? *check*
cloaky in system? *check*
AFK? *the world will never know (after 3 licks of the lollipop)*
Omnitank? *Check*
In standing fleet? *check*

You win.

Was that so hard?

Dub Step
Minmatar
Death To Everyone But Us
Posted - 2011.08.14 21:04:00 - [193]
 

Apparently things like that are unrealistic to expect of a group of people in contestable and lawless space.

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.08.14 22:19:00 - [194]
 

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Originally by: Diablo Ex
I sit in my little tissue box, hidden from view and marvel at the pathetic creatures who live in null sec, and REFUSE to defend themselves or their turf. All it would take is a few noble PvP pilots to stand over-watch on the fleet of miners, or guard the convoy. But ...NO, they cry foul, unfair...


And what about intel infos that a AFK cloacker could collect for enemy alliances without the possibility to expel it? Owners of a system should be able to repel an enemy. The cloak module makes a spy invulnerable and untouchable.

The real cryer are AFK cloackers who do not want to lose this privilege.
How does someone who is 'afk' collect intel?....

*facepalm*


P.s I don't know who these 'cloackers' are but they sound like a cool bunch of guys Very Happy

Uncle Smokey
Posted - 2011.08.14 23:00:00 - [195]
 

Edited by: Uncle Smokey on 14/08/2011 23:16:19
Find a way around it in-game.

Edit: The real problem is the existence of local chat.

OMGWTFResearch
Posted - 2011.08.15 04:53:00 - [196]
 

"Stop crying to CCP to fix something that needs to stay the way it is. You wussy hisec freighter pilots need to put up a CAP and pull yourselves up by your bootstraps we are NOT exploiting the game to get virtually free kills and loot that is ALWAYS worth more then the loss of our battleships when CONCORD shows up too late adapt or die in EVE"

Oh wait wrong topic and wrong time. This was the random pro risk free gank argument that followed claims that CCP would never fix the issue. Tho you could change a few words and have the same argument the pro risk free AFK cloakers have.

NOTHING new here. They flood into topics and scream and claim that CCP will never change things even tho they are making flawed argument after argument as if they do indeed fear CCP will find time to fix this. Now once CCP fixes the issues that prevent them from nerfing AFK-CLoaking get ready for topics full of people claiming to be leaving.

Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
Posted - 2011.08.15 08:21:00 - [197]
 

Yep those would be all the nullsec bears cancelling their subs when their precious local gets nerfed.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.15 09:27:00 - [198]
 

Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
"Stop crying to CCP to fix something that needs to stay the way it is. You wussy hisec freighter pilots need to put up a CAP and pull yourselves up by your bootstraps


Relax. I am a hisec (err any sec) freighter pilot, and I'm on your side. Don't generalize.
Keep your arguments to the point and within reason. I believe that letting the AFK whiners spout their whiny senseless broken logic only serves to prove our point. As long as we in turn do not play their game of generalization and fallacy.


Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.15 09:35:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 14/08/2011 16:11:18
Originally by: Dub Step
You mention being forced to 'operate under guard'. It's 0.0, you should be doing this anyway.

This shows how poor is your 0.0 life as citizen and productor. You are a pirate.. you can't understand.

Your fury against this thread shows how AFK Cloaker is a necessary role to your gameplay.
You call others "cowards" when you're the first to fear a change.
Prove that a cloak device with the fuel (or charge) ruin your game .. then you are right.
Do not hide behind your "You are a carebear".


Assumptions, assumptions.. baseless assumptions.

Well, yours is that you think that your part of null sec is 'yours' What exactly makes it yours? You can't block out spies and intel gatherers in real life, so what makes you think that you are entitled to in the game?

I once a long time ago supported the addition of some new expensive sovereignty upgrade module like a "tachyon pulse" which would decloak all cloaked ships in the system. (and to an extent, still do if done properly, and done with the addition of the removal of local in nullsec), but you wouldn't use it all the time anyway, as it would cost a lot of stront or some other fuel. Would you? Miners should just get pvp friends to guard the gates if you are paranoid simple as that. If you don't guard your gates, then you have no right calling that system 'yours'



Cynoska McNamara
Posted - 2011.08.15 10:06:00 - [200]
 

Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 15/08/2011 10:09:26
Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 15/08/2011 10:07:26
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Well, yours is that you think that your part of null sec is 'yours' What exactly makes it yours?

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sovereignty_guide
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
You can't block out spies and intel gatherers in real life, so what makes you think that you are entitled to in the game?

This is ridiculous. In real life, the spies can be identified and captured. There are dedicated units of Intelligence for this purpose (the famous "counterintelligence").

Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.08.15 10:38:00 - [201]
 

Edited by: Danika Princip on 15/08/2011 10:38:49
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 15/08/2011 10:09:26
Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 15/08/2011 10:07:26
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Well, yours is that you think that your part of null sec is 'yours' What exactly makes it yours?

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sovereignty_guide
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
You can't block out spies and intel gatherers in real life, so what makes you think that you are entitled to in the game?

This is ridiculous. In real life, the spies can be identified and captured. There are dedicated units of Intelligence for this purpose (the famous "counterintelligence").



yes. 100% of all real life spies are always and without fail caught within five minutes.

Rolling Eyes


Think of the AFK cloaker as the Chinese/Russian/French/whoever spy satellite over your house right now. Good luck catching that.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.15 11:12:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 15/08/2011 10:09:26
Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 15/08/2011 10:07:26
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Well, yours is that you think that your part of null sec is 'yours' What exactly makes it yours?

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sovereignty_guide
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
You can't block out spies and intel gatherers in real life, so what makes you think that you are entitled to in the game?

This is ridiculous. In real life, the spies can be identified and captured. There are dedicated units of Intelligence for this purpose (the famous "counterintelligence").



Thanks for quoting the obvious sherlock. I presume that you thought that I don't know sovereignty works, which is the reason you thought to show how little you read into the responses on the thread by posting the link. Yet, immediately after, I just suggested an infinitely better way of handling afk cloakers, yet you didn't even bother to respond to that, either with a 'yeah, that may also work' or 'that doesn't solve my issue because' argument. Which only shows to all the readers of this thread, that you aren't really considering all solutions to your 'problem' just your own solution. (which just happens to gimp all users of cloaks, not just the one off case of a covert ops cloaker in null sec.

And PS, just because you have sov, doesn't mean you OWN the system sherlock. (please show me where read this) If it did, then presumably the gates wouldn't let any strangers jump through. (good luck with that proposal) It only means that you have the option to build and operate Outposts and infra hubs in the system, and to enjoy the benefits from said outposts and infra hubs. It also gives defensive bonuses to defending said assets. But of course, you knew that already. I mean, you read the link you sent me after all. :P


Kyr Evotorin
Eye of God
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2011.08.15 16:57:00 - [203]
 

hey... isn't this thread here to see support or lack thereof? obviously some of you are stuck on technicalities of parts of posts that don't even relate to AFK cloakers.


Explain your support or lack thereof. Acknowledge that not many people are bright to begin with. Hope that your point gets across to people with a brain. end.

Raging doesn't help anyone. it just derails a thread.

I don't support this.
1. not an exploit unless explicitly stated as one by CCP.
2. AFK players do nothing but instill a fear of the possibility that one ship will attack you in one system.
*Standing fleet*
*Intel Channel*
*Fit omni-tank*
win.
3. The op says everyone knows it is a problem. It is a problem to someone not willing to take a risk. Nullsec is about risk vs. reward.
4. The op asks why nothing has been done. 4+ years. nothing has been done. do you know why? because CCP either a. doesn't believe it is a problem, or b. has it low on priorities, because it isn't much of a problem.

Facts are:
People are mad because they don't like to feel unsafe.
Unfortunately, those people want money.
The desire for game money + the lack of risk taking = someone feeling their time is wasted. (in nullsec ofc).
The lack of preparation for those that do risk is the reason for lost ships.
Being prepared still means you are risking something, but an active standing fleet can make your loss worth something. That something would be the removal of the most recent cloaky in system. (if this makes no sense to you, uninstall).


please... please... stop being emotional wrecks in the AH... it looks terrible.

Uncle Smokey
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:41:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
This is ridiculous. In real life, the spies can be identified and captured. There are dedicated units of Intelligence for this purpose (the famous "counterintelligence").



In real life spies are not hiding in f*ing deep space. And even if they were, you wouldn't be able to find them, even if you knew they were (somewhere).

It's not the spy itself that's bothering you. It's the fact that you know he's there, and you take that information for granted. Now you want to take even more for granted.

Nerf local instead.

OMGWTFResearch
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:46:00 - [205]
 

Originally by: Ya Huei
Yep those would be all the nullsec bears cancelling their subs when their precious local gets nerfed.



You do realize that Local intel is not being nerfed. It is being replaced with a better intel tool.

I quite wonder just how many will quit when they discover that the new intel will likely be far better instead of the WH like nothing they expect 00 to become.

Now in the other topic there is discussion on a new type of hull designed to hunt down those who think they can sit in a system cloaked and be safe all day. Personally I think it ought to be an expensive module that only works on the destroyer hull. This would give Destroyers a job similar to those in the Navy today and make them a target worth attacking again.

Uncle Smokey
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:56:00 - [206]
 

Edited by: Uncle Smokey on 15/08/2011 20:59:34
Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
Now in the other topic there is discussion on a new type of hull designed to hunt down those who think they can sit in a system cloaked and be safe all day. Personally I think it ought to be an expensive module that only works on the destroyer hull. This would give Destroyers a job similar to those in the Navy today and make them a target worth attacking again.


That would nerf the whole stealth game to hell, like it even needed it. And only to make the game more comfortable for few noisy people.

Limiting cloaking time is the only reasonable idea. But stealth should NOT be nerfed in any way while local chat exists.

OMGWTFResearch
Posted - 2011.08.15 22:08:00 - [207]
 

Originally by: Uncle Smokey
Edited by: Uncle Smokey on 15/08/2011 20:59:34
Originally by: OMGWTFResearch
Now in the other topic there is discussion on a new type of hull designed to hunt down those who think they can sit in a system cloaked and be safe all day. Personally I think it ought to be an expensive module that only works on the destroyer hull. This would give Destroyers a job similar to those in the Navy today and make them a target worth attacking again.


That would nerf the whole stealth game to hell, like it even needed it. And only to make the game more comfortable for few noisy people.

Limiting cloaking time is the only reasonable idea. But stealth should NOT be nerfed in any way while local chat exists.


Considering that uncloaking someone in a system requires a hell of alot of time and skill with the proposed module. An active pilot can simply warp off or get out of range. Recloak after the short cooldown and resume his activities.

Meanwhile those who are AFK either wont get the warning and be exposed to be destroyed or the bot that runs his client will eventually be exposed and banned by CCP.

Take the AFK out of the picture without ruining the legitimate uses for Stealth.

Johnny May
Posted - 2011.08.15 22:15:00 - [208]
 

someone afk cannot do anything to you,
someone not afk is not what your post is targeted at

whats your point again?

Uncle Smokey
Posted - 2011.08.15 22:27:00 - [209]
 

Sure. But as long as it's impossible to even move around the space undetected (making any true recon/warfare impossible in the game), any nerf to stealth would be just strapping crap on a broken- or at least bad mechanic.

Local is the worst immersion breaker in the whole game and a bad alternative to more advanced mechanics. Building anything on it would just make everything worse.

OMGWTFResearch
Posted - 2011.08.15 22:36:00 - [210]
 

Originally by: Uncle Smokey
Sure. But as long as it's impossible to even move around the space undetected (making any true recon/warfare impossible in the game), any nerf to stealth would be just strapping crap on a broken- or at least bad mechanic.

Local is the worst immersion breaker in the whole game and a bad alternative to more advanced mechanics. Building anything on it would just make everything worse.


This isn't a topic about local. Keep it about the cloaking.

It isn't a nerf to stealth. It's a nerf to anyone who is dumb enough to be AFK after the change. Those who are active can know when they are about to be decloaked and move away for the cooldown. Resuming their recon afterwards.

Very simple very effective. No need for stealth fuel or even random decloaks. Make the destroyer useful for the task and make those who really put in the time instead of minimizing and going to get a burger a much bigger threat and use.


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