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Thomas Turnpoint
Posted - 2011.07.30 23:19:00 - [151]
 

It's that creeping thought that keeps gnawing at you in the middle of the night, isn't it?

The idea that someone, somewhere, might be AFK Cloaked in a Hulk. Twisted Evil

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2011.07.30 23:26:00 - [152]
 


Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.31 03:38:00 - [153]
 

LOL :-D

But seriously, either grow a backbone and deal with the lone AFK cloakie in your system, or press for no more local in 0.0, or local that only shows people who chat. Growing a backbone is obviously beyond most of these whinging carebear botters, so expect more whinging remove local threads soon...

Though without local they'd actually have to defend their borders... uh oh, effort required! That won't work then.

Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
Posted - 2011.08.02 13:33:00 - [154]
 

Can't wait for nerfed local.. nullsec bears will get ****d by w-space visitors :P

Eperor
Posted - 2011.08.02 13:52:00 - [155]
 

ccp wil not nerf local dream one WH space work to much difrent then usual space that make the same system waht its in WH space it insane, that measns 0.0 dead nop one will be there. bigest difrenc its trafic, in WH its limited trafick 0.0 dont have such limitations, so than need remove al gates to if remuve local, than all will become one big WH.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.02 14:51:00 - [156]
 

*looks for decoder ring at bottom of cracker jack box*

Thomas Turnpoint
Posted - 2011.08.02 15:31:00 - [157]
 

A "nerf" to local would be interesting. If it was definitely coming up on a set date, stocking up on combat scanner probes and expanded probe launchers might be profitable, as even in high sec people will suddenly want them.
D-scan will become a hot topic too.
Realistically I don't know that removal of local completely would work for anything but WH space. Due to stargates, and the presence of Concord in high sec, I am guessing that the suggested nerf to local is to add a delay. The lower the sec status, the longer the delay. Plus this would leave WH-space with one of it's unique aspects.

Cloaking is not broken, it is not suddenly turned into an exploit if someone is not staring at their computer screen with their hands on the keys.

ps: should bump this thread when needed so it stays near the top, specifically to try and cut down on the deluge of threads on this very topic.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.02 18:13:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: Eperor
ccp wil not nerf local dream one WH space work to much difrent then usual space that make the same system waht its in WH space it insane, that measns 0.0 dead nop one will be there. bigest difrenc its trafic, in WH its limited trafick 0.0 dont have such limitations, so than need remove al gates to if remuve local, than all will become one big WH.
Local nerf is coming very soon. Very Happy

Also, wat?

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.08.02 18:45:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: Eperor
ccp wil not nerf local dream one WH space work to much difrent then usual space that make the same system waht its in WH space it insane, that measns 0.0 dead nop one will be there. bigest difrenc its trafic, in WH its limited trafick 0.0 dont have such limitations, so than need remove al gates to if remuve local, than all will become one big WH.


Sad thing is, this person almost certainly uses English as a first language.

Joachim Vaug
Posted - 2011.08.02 21:36:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: Miang Hawaa
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!


Just minimize your local chat, you'll be fine...

Dravidshky
Posted - 2011.08.02 21:42:00 - [161]
 

I want some sort of anti cloaking feature not for afk cloakers in 0.0 but for cloaked orcas hiding in WH systems.
I had an intruder in my WH system who flew an orca with his alt in which he kept all his other ships, like a tengu and some cov ops frigates. I knew it was online cause I managed to add both his chars to my watchlist, and I knew he was still there cause once in a while an orca would show up on D-scan.
Now imo there should be some way of probing down something the size of an orca, cloak or no cloak, maybe not so I could land on it at 0m but at least some way of finding it and killing it.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.08.03 05:10:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Dravidshky
I want some sort of anti cloaking feature not for afk cloakers in 0.0 but for cloaked orcas hiding in WH systems.
I had an intruder in my WH system who flew an orca with his alt in which he kept all his other ships, like a tengu and some cov ops frigates. I knew it was online cause I managed to add both his chars to my watchlist, and I knew he was still there cause once in a while an orca would show up on D-scan.
Now imo there should be some way of probing down something the size of an orca, cloak or no cloak, maybe not so I could land on it at 0m but at least some way of finding it and killing it.


Train up your scan skills, and get the jump on him next time he de-cloaks. Or whine *shrug*

razumenko
Posted - 2011.08.03 12:18:00 - [163]
 

I understand both point of view:
- afk cloak is in the game so stfu and adapt or die
- afk cloak is a cheat

But eve if the game is accept this mechanism there is a problem int the balance between risk and the capacity of the afk cloaker:
A simple scenario:
You see somebody in your local you take your pvp ship and go for it :) but no way to found it.
So you make a pve fleet to warp in case of.
At the moment one of the best way to rats it's to use t3 ship so it's around 1B ship.
Because of that guy in local you check your overview for ship incoming and probe if is afk or not it doesn't change anything and it's ok.
Now if the guy use for exemple a covert ship, with covert cyno. you warp into anomaly the guy warp cloaky in the same anomaly as you.
And now he discrupt or scramble you because you have not a missile boat and you need to get close to the target so you can't be align.
You are scramble he opens his cyno and 4 bombers pop. you scream to everybody to warp in but you are already dead. (so 1B ship :'()
Your fleet arrive kill all the bombers the guy with the covert cyno (4*30M + 30M) and you kill for 150M.
So compare to investment it's nothing and it means that you can't farm alone to at least get revenge.
Stated to that, for me there is just a problem with the way cloaky ship works.
For the afk if guy as to uncloak every 30 minutes, it will be fair, if the guy cannot use the directionnal scan when cloaky, it's fair if he cannot use the anno scanner it's fair too.
But at the moment you can scan somebody taking no risk and be safe as long as you are cloaky warp on a guy scramble him kill him and go :'(



Lance Stratos
Posted - 2011.08.05 00:14:00 - [164]
 

YES does something need to be done about it. but what can we do, some people are fine with it, but for those highsec carebears to those in null sec its like war targets coming into your system and camping you in. MAYBE you can use a less expensive ship (like many of us do when it happens), but when it comes down to it what can we do? change the cloaking mechanic? make an auto kick after x minutes of inactivity? Have the answer before you post a problem.

David Fightmaster
Gallente
The Black Legionnares
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.08.05 00:37:00 - [165]
 

Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Quote:
What blatant exploit? I see no blatant exploit.


It is tragic that I have to spell this out for you.

An enemy's presence in a system causes numerous problems for locals. In general, people will not do anything outside sit in a pvp fleet when neutrals or reds, even just one, is present in a system. This means no isk generating of any kind, including mining and ratting without significant risk. Complexes are out of the question for fear that the enemy happens to have probing capabilities. Even well tanked ships are potentially at risk because we don't know if the enemy has a cyno.

So their mere presence can halt isk production in a system. Here comes the exploit: they can have this major tactical ability without even being near their computer. Just leaving your character logged in and cloaked while you're at work is exploitation of game mechanics when it can so drastically affect so many people.


Quote:
I see no problem here but your inability to adapt.


Explain what counter measures you can employ against this.



FAIL!!!! LMAO. I suffer from afk cloakers all the time. Deal with it or go to high sec. Your choice.

Wizlawz
Posted - 2011.08.05 20:33:00 - [166]
 

i could see if microtransactions were a big part of making isk, but since it is not.


a possible solution would be and probably should be that after a certain amount of inactivity IE: not probing, not chatting, etc then maybe auto log off would be in order.

however if this was to be implemented then those seeking low sec iskies who can cloak and wait out a system for the "prime time" to farm low sec would be hindered.

i do see your point though, however beings i do come from realms where microtransactions effect ingame economy, not making any isk where you can withdraw into cash is no big deal imho.

the thing i don't understand is while cloaked if ship is moving why it is not picked up as some kind of anomally from the propulsion say if u had scanner / probers looking for said ship.

Earl Comstock
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2011.08.06 11:12:00 - [167]
 

Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 30/07/2011 23:04:56

Log players out after lengthy periods of inactivity. There is nothing in the game that requires your presence, but not your involvement.


Agree entirely with your sentiment, but this is wrong. Remote fleet boosters function perfectly "present but uninvolved."


Vex Seraphim
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.08.09 07:40:00 - [168]
 

Dear Original Poster, i would like to redirect your attention to a real exploit that has been plaguing eve for a long while.
And what's more - i'll do that in your own words.

Seeing names in local chat.
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
This blatant exploit has gone on long enough.

I know, i agree it is and it has.

Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Players should not be allowed to have a tactical advantage

of scouting a system by simply jumping there.
or of seeing an enemy without actively scanning for one.
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
This defines exploit.


Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Everyone knows it is a problem. It has been for a very long time. Why has nothing been done?
What is being done about this frustrating problem?


See what i did there?

Eperor
Posted - 2011.08.09 09:25:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: Toovhon
Originally by: Eperor
ccp wil not nerf local dream one WH space work to much difrent then usual space that make the same system waht its in WH space it insane, that measns 0.0 dead nop one will be there. bigest difrenc its trafic, in WH its limited trafick 0.0 dont have such limitations, so than need remove al gates to if remuve local, than all will become one big WH.


Sad thing is, this person almost certainly uses English as a first language.


English its my 5 language with i know so worst from all off them.

Mr Stark
Posted - 2011.08.09 09:31:00 - [170]
 

Whilst cloaking in system to disrupt isk making etc is a totally valid tactic, I agree that loggin gin after DT, cloak up and go to work/school/out for teh day, sleeping, then doing the same thing after next DT is to my mind not in the spirit of gameplay.

Disrupting peoples in gmae supply lines, isk making, totally valid, doing it afk 23.5/7 is not.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.08.09 12:40:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: Mr Stark
Whilst cloaking in system to disrupt isk making etc is a totally valid tactic, I agree that loggin gin after DT, cloak up and go to work/school/out for teh day, sleeping, then doing the same thing after next DT is to my mind not in the spirit of gameplay.

Disrupting peoples in gmae supply lines, isk making, totally valid, doing it afk 23.5/7 is not.

Move next door or stop being a pansy.

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2011.08.10 08:28:00 - [172]
 

There is already a solution to AFK cloakers.

Simply minimize Local.

There you go. That nasty AFK cloaker has completely disappeared from your screen.

ISK to Jovan Geldon, Lead Farmers please.

Eperor
Posted - 2011.08.10 09:45:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Jovan Geldon
There is already a solution to AFK cloakers.

Simply minimize Local.

There you go. That nasty AFK cloaker has completely disappeared from your screen.

ISK to Jovan Geldon, Lead Farmers please.


And all bils for ships send to you when next to raters opens cov ops cyno after cov ops pilots was 2 weeks afk clouckign in system. to get target no need 2 weeks sit afking in system.

Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.10 19:19:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: Eperor
And all bils for ships send to you when next to raters opens cov ops cyno after cov ops pilots was 2 weeks afk clouckign in system. to get target no need 2 weeks sit afking in system.


Solution: don't rat in a system with an AFK cloaker

hth

Aramis Rosicrux
Gallente
Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris
Posted - 2011.08.10 20:48:00 - [175]
 

This tactic is "Carebearing" for PvPers and needs to be balanced. The problem is there is no risk to the cloaked lurker.

I suggest some ANTI - CLOAK modules.

Thoughts??? Question

Aramis Rosicrux

Torenc
Posted - 2011.08.11 11:41:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: Lykouleon
Originally by: Eperor
And all bils for ships send to you when next to raters opens cov ops cyno after cov ops pilots was 2 weeks afk clouckign in system. to get target no need 2 weeks sit afking in system.


Solution: don't rat in a system with an AFK cloaker

hth


thing its such wie was in smaller allince than wie are curently and if allaince have only 3-6 sytems to rat, so imagene wath hapens if there i nal sytems are clouckers wie expirenced that, was no place to rat att all. and that was for 2-3 month so each day there was afk clouckers but if soem one trued to rat his ship after couple hours was blowen up. means they chaking the game but verry rer. so way such play style need to be suported, if you are cloucked look on your screen with your char and dont move from you PC until you not log off or leave system. eve nice miner brings more activity in game and eforce then clouckers, and if soem one wil say they not geting rewarded that thet its wrong they have rewards from loot atleast and intel try bots.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.11 19:05:00 - [177]
 

Originally by: Aramis Rosicrux
This tactic is "Carebearing" for PvPers and needs to be balanced. The problem is there is no risk to the cloaked lurker.

I suggest some ANTI - CLOAK modules.

Thoughts??? Question

Aramis Rosicrux
Wrong. AFK cloaking is a somewhat viable solution to local. But local is being nerfed soon, so I'll enjoy your whines when it is.

Torenc
Posted - 2011.08.12 14:00:00 - [178]
 

Edited by: Torenc on 12/08/2011 14:00:33
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Aramis Rosicrux
This tactic is "Carebearing" for PvPers and needs to be balanced. The problem is there is no risk to the cloaked lurker.

I suggest some ANTI - CLOAK modules.

Thoughts??? Question

Aramis Rosicrux
Wrong. AFK cloaking is a somewhat viable solution to local. But local is being nerfed soon, so I'll enjoy your whines when it is.



IF local wil be nerfed wilbe only one ting no ratter in 0.0 noo0ne wil risk his ship for sanctum. or wath ever good anomaly. All will grind isk in high sec with alts so that will be the way wath you wish to make.

Allrweady with last nerfs off 0.0 about 40 % off 0.0 po9pulation left 0.0 fariming in 0.0 alone and warms in high sec misions.

Cynoska McNamara
Posted - 2011.08.12 15:23:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: Torenc
IF local wil be nerfed wilbe only one ting no ratter in 0.0 noo0ne wil risk his ship for sanctum. or wath ever good anomaly. All will grind isk in high sec with alts so that will be the way wath you wish to make.

Allrweady with last nerfs off 0.0 about 40 % off 0.0 po9pulation left 0.0 fariming in 0.0 alone and warms in high sec misions.

I agree. With local removing, 0.0 will be just a pirate zone. No reign will grow.
0.0 is done for military forces and citizens. Don't think just like a pirate.
The pirates usually have the presumption to be the only ones to play the right way.
But remember pirates play to DESTROY. Others play to BUILD.
You can't DESTROY if someone can't BUILD.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.08.12 17:53:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Originally by: Torenc
IF local wil be nerfed wilbe only one ting no ratter in 0.0 noo0ne wil risk his ship for sanctum. or wath ever good anomaly. All will grind isk in high sec with alts so that will be the way wath you wish to make.

Allrweady with last nerfs off 0.0 about 40 % off 0.0 po9pulation left 0.0 fariming in 0.0 alone and warms in high sec misions.

I agree. With local removing, 0.0 will be just a pirate zone. No reign will grow.
0.0 is done for military forces and citizens. Don't think just like a pirate.
The pirates usually have the presumption to be the only ones to play the right way.
But remember pirates play to DESTROY. Others play to BUILD.
You can't DESTROY if someone can't BUILD.
It's nice to see you both admit, just how powerful the local intel channel is. I will mourn your loss. Wink


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