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blankseplocked Why is skill gain not accelerated while using them?
 
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I likegirls
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.27 00:06:00 - [31]
 

Because this is not wow.

Zagaro
Posted - 2011.07.27 04:59:00 - [32]
 

So what I'm getting from the responses, is that given the chance to accelerate skill gains by using them.... you would all employ AFK tactics instead of actually doing things relevant to the skills?

To me, it sounds like you guys simply want to watch clocks count down and your numbers go up and not bother actually playing the game...

There's a really cool game you guys would probably like, it's called Progress Quest. You get to make a character and then the game plays itself!

Orlacc
Posted - 2011.07.27 05:55:00 - [33]
 

Buh-bye

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.27 07:55:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Zagaro
So what I'm getting from the responses, is that given the chance to accelerate skill gains by using them.... you would all employ AFK tactics instead of actually doing things relevant to the skills?
No, but that would be what you'd have to do to benefit from it.

And what you should be getting is that separating progression from gameplay is a fairly unique mechanic that people like because it means you can concentrate on playing the game, rather than worrying about progression.

…also, you should be getting the fact that this kind of mechanic simply doesn't work with a huge amount of the skills in this game, and that it is therefore a fundamentally flawed concept to try to squeeze in.

FireT
Gallente
Royal Advanced Industries
Imperial Crimson Legion
Posted - 2011.07.27 16:59:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Zagaro
So what I'm getting from the responses, is that given the chance to accelerate skill gains by using them.... you would all employ AFK tactics instead of actually doing things relevant to the skills?

To me, it sounds like you guys simply want to watch clocks count down and your numbers go up and not bother actually playing the game...

There's a really cool game you guys would probably like, it's called Progress Quest. You get to make a character and then the game plays itself!


Loltroll. You are special, aren't you. So many people are against it, but the narcissist in you demands it anyways? I mean 'COME ON' accept that this is how Eve is and that the majority of people prefer it that way.

And a life lesson for you and your kind: the world doesn't revolve around you. It won't even notice your absence when you are gone. So stop demanding your way in everything.

lordlulzs
Posted - 2011.07.28 18:20:00 - [36]
 

I don't think we need to worry either way.

The amount of average active users decreases more and more each week.

Twisted Evil

M4U53R
Gallente
The Aussie Connection Corp
Posted - 2011.07.28 18:49:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Zagaro
So what I'm getting from the responses, is that given the chance to accelerate skill gains by using them.... you would all employ AFK tactics instead of actually doing things relevant to the skills?
No, but that would be what you'd have to do to benefit from it.

And what you should be getting is that separating progression from gameplay is a fairly unique mechanic that people like because it means you can concentrate on playing the game, rather than worrying about progression.

…also, you should be getting the fact that this kind of mechanic simply doesn't work with a huge amount of the skills in this game, and that it is therefore a fundamentally flawed concept to try to squeeze in.


That latter reason, is why, I would say.

using skills as a means of raising them, or even secondarily as a means of raising them, seems like a really good idea, but in practice, not so much. Ultima Online had this system, in various incarnations, as did SWG, though a bit less emphasis on skills, per se. Overall all it led to was a lot of afk macroing. I'd rather my skills gain at a certain set rate, in real time, instead of making IG time valuable for "skilling". IG time should be valuable as a playtime, as it is.

I prefer the way Eve does it, frankly.

Kro0k
Gallente
EVE Evacuation
Posted - 2011.07.29 05:58:00 - [38]
 

you can hasten skills by actually doing them by spending the money made from your activities on Implants Very Happy

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2011.07.29 07:20:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Zagaro
"Grinding" EXP is far more enjoyable than watching clocks slowly tick away, because you're being rewarded for actually playing the game.


You are already rewarded for playing. It's called "fun".

There's also isks, which are actually more important than SP.

And again there's that thing called "player skill", which mean getting better at what you do (like pvp), that you gain with practice.


There is no need for anything more, especially not if it means botting.

Wabbit Ormand
Posted - 2011.07.29 23:59:00 - [40]
 

almost every other MMO uses grinding for character development. but how many of them are still growing after 8 years? EVE will stay the way it is because it works. Enough player prefer this way to grinding that the game is still growing. Even WOW is only a shadow of what it was at its peek. We grind enough for isk, no need to grind skills as well.

Zagaro
Posted - 2011.07.30 01:49:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Zagaro on 30/07/2011 01:51:45
Originally by: Kro0k
you can hasten skills by actually doing them by spending the money made from your activities on Implants Very Happy


+1 in each attribute (higher than the implants I currently have) isn't going to save much time on my current many-years plan.

Waiting 2 years and 11 months isn't much faster than waiting 3 years.

Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Zagaro
"Grinding" EXP is far more enjoyable than watching clocks slowly tick away, because you're being rewarded for actually playing the game.


You are already rewarded for playing. It's called "fun".

There's also isks, which are actually more important than SP.

And again there's that thing called "player skill", which mean getting better at what you do (like pvp), that you gain with practice.


There is no need for anything more, especially not if it means botting.


It's hard to have "fun" when I have to wait for many months to get to the next best ship. Flying the same thing in repetitive missions gets stale. The only way to freshen things up is to hop into something more powerful.

Cunane Jeran
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.31 08:26:00 - [42]
 

Because then rainbow fit a mega with large and medium lasers and hybrids and shoot at a chunk of veldspar til it leveled.

Nika Dekaia
Posted - 2011.07.31 13:26:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Zagaro
It's hard to have "fun" when I have to wait for many months to get to the next best ship. Flying the same thing in repetitive missions gets stale. The only way to freshen things up is to hop into something more powerful.
Guess what happens as soon as you sit in a pimped battleship - that's right, no more "progression" for you. You then actually start downscaling again to make missions more "fun".

Yes, missions are repetetive, but boosting skill times will not make them more "fun".

Apart from that, Eve is not a single player game or theme-park mmo. The fun comes from playing and interacting with other people. There are people having fun solo grinding missions,improving ISK/h ratio and hoarding ISK. You seem not to be one of them.

So while you are waiting for those timers to tick down, why not look for something you actually enjoy doing. Then you would actually have fun playing the game.

What you are doing at the moment is playing an aspect of the game you do not enjoy just to wait untill you can fly a bigger ship to again do something you do not enjoy while waiting for skills to complete....and so on.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.31 13:51:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Zagaro
It's hard to have "fun" when I have to wait for many months to get to the next best ship. Flying the same thing in repetitive missions gets stale. The only way to freshen things up is to hop into something more powerful.
You don't have to wait.

Or, perhaps more accurately, if you can't have fun in the meantime, then you won't have fun once the wait is over either, because it will be the exact same thing. So waiting to have fun is futile, because you're waiting for something that won't happen — there is no great revelation (lower-case ‘r’) at the end of the rainbow, just more rainbow. Aside from capships, which do have some distinct gameplay differences from smaller ships, nothing really changes as you gain new ships — it's the same gameplay, only with different bonuses.

If it's repetitive now, it will be repetitive later, because it's the same repetitive activity.

Progression isn't your problem — it's that you haven't found a way to have fun with what you've got.

Orlacc
Posted - 2011.08.01 16:54:00 - [45]
 

Perhaps head over to WoW forums and ask why there are levels.

Vawd
Caldari
Tax Evasion Ltd
Posted - 2011.08.07 16:57:00 - [46]
 

Go play wow if you want to level and grind, or better yet go play any Korean MMO, like Aion. I play this game, because I ****ing HATE grinding levels. So yeah, go leave,since you apparently need somebody holding your hand dictating how you spend your playtime.

Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.08.08 04:24:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Abdiel Kavash on 08/08/2011 04:26:46
Originally by: Zagaro
It's hard to have "fun" when I have to wait for many months to get to the next best ship. Flying the same thing in repetitive missions gets stale. The only way to freshen things up is to hop into something more powerful.

So actually your problem isn't that using a skill doesn't make it train faster. Your problem is that you think skill training is too slow, and you think that a bigger ship will be necessarily better than what you have now.

Signal11th
Posted - 2011.08.09 12:28:00 - [48]
 

8/10 you guys bit hard on the troll.

Acrior
Posted - 2011.08.09 20:41:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Acrior on 09/08/2011 20:41:28
I got my PhD. in Thermodynamics recently and now I can overheat my autocannons

slatybartfas Arbosa
Posted - 2011.08.09 21:40:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: slatybartfas Arbosa on 09/08/2011 21:40:40
Don't worry guys, there is this new epic spaceship mmo that just came out, and it destroys eve in pvp.

And you can grind for all the SP you want.

edit: Black prophecy.. Enjoy.. No need to thank me. Smile

Naradius
DEATHFUNK
Posted - 2011.08.10 05:37:00 - [51]
 

You will learn that skills are secondary when compared to isk making...I have a 60mill sp alt, that pvp's 99% of the time in Tech I frigs (sometimes faction frigs) and cruisers, even though she can fly most TII sub cap class of ship.
For me, skills are not a concern when compared to grinding isk, and isk generation has a lot more options then when I first started..i.e. - PI has good profit with very little skill investment.
So, stop watching the skill timer tick down and earn some isk, so you can do the things you want to do.

FireT
Gallente
Royal Advanced Industries
Imperial Crimson Legion
Posted - 2011.08.11 16:34:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: M4U53R
Ultima Online had this system, in various incarnations, as did SWG, though a bit less emphasis on skills, per se. Overall all it led to was a lot of afk macroing. I'd rather my skills gain at a certain set rate, in real time, instead of making IG time valuable for "skilling". IG time should be valuable as a playtime, as it is.

I prefer the way Eve does it, frankly.


Oh my god, thanks for that old school reminder of my late teens. Yeah, if any game would make it as bad as UO had it, most people wouldn't get past a frigate.
Seriously, it took ages to get stuff leveled to 100% due to the learning/leveling curve being so skewed it nearly went horizontal.

Eve's system is fine. God bless that we don't have actual UO games. Imagine WoW where people have to learn and actually practice their skills and spells. And both for fighting them and moving & fighting.

UO had the WORST macroing community because it was actually mandatory to macro.

FireT
Gallente
Royal Advanced Industries
Imperial Crimson Legion
Posted - 2011.08.11 16:39:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: slatybartfas Arbosa
Edited by: slatybartfas Arbosa on 09/08/2011 21:40:40
Don't worry guys, there is this new epic spaceship mmo that just came out, and it destroys eve in pvp.

And you can grind for all the SP you want.

edit: Black prophecy.. Enjoy.. No need to thank me. Smile


Hate to double post. But Confused Eve Online and WoW had a child? Grindcraft in space? Rolling Eyes

Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.08.17 20:31:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 17/08/2011 20:32:08
I think the skill system as it is, is a great equalizer actually. Since all skills have only 5 levels, it doesn't take all that long to specialize in something, and most players of EVE are probably specialists at something, and generalists at whatever else takes their fancy. That's a great way to have a skill system.

However, from the "sim" angle, yes, it would be great to have some sort of simulation of practice adding to the character's skillset, added to the simulation of study that we already have.

I'd also like to have vet crew buffs and things like that.

Sadly, human psychology is such that since these things are exploitable in moronic ways, morons who can't restrain themselves for the sake of holy and beautiful immersion will inevitably fill the moronic hole with moronicness Laughing

Sphynix
Posted - 2011.08.19 14:19:00 - [55]
 

I have a "programable" keyboard. If they put back in the ability to "grind exp" by activating and deactivating modules i'd do this...

Get a BS with 8 high slots.
Stick in 1 of each weapon (that i want to train)
Stick in 1 of each armour and shield mod and fill the rest with cap recharge
Target an asteroid.
Set the keyboard to activate and then deactivate each weapon and module every 2 seconds, using shortcuts. (yes i know that not everything has a 2 second cycle, but the game doesn't care if you mash buttons).

Then i'd go to work. After DT i'd set it off again, luckily i live close to work, so lunch is a short walk. When i get home from work i can then "play" the game.

Doing this would give me a huge boost over anyone not doing it, pretty much doubling the amount of SP gain.
As a bonus i'm not even using a macro that does anything in game, it's the keyboard sending shortcut commands just as if i had sat there all day myself - so it's not even bannable.

And this would be fair?

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.19 21:11:00 - [56]
 

The sooner you realize that Eve is less about watching your skill timer tick down, and more about who you play with and what you do in game, the more fun you will have.

Sarfux
Posted - 2011.08.21 18:49:00 - [57]
 

Or you could just play Black Prophecy and never have to wait again.


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