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blankseplocked @ CCP DEV - How do Vanity Items survive when you are podded?
 
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Important Person
Posted - 2011.07.12 06:36:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Mister Smithington
Originally by: Dante Marcellus
Edited by: Dante Marcellus on 11/07/2011 18:21:52

YOU'RE NAKED INSIDE OF YOUR POD

Flippin' idiots on these forums.


I may be naked in my pod, but you appear to be stupid in yours.

Your vanity clothes appear at every station you dock in, even if you flew there in just your pod. Think about what that means.

Flippin' idiots on these forums.


You mean kinda leik da way all mah clothes and pants and shoes appear at every station I dok at even if I flu der in mah pod?

Flippin da bird!

Mel Civire
Posted - 2011.07.12 06:42:00 - [122]
 

LOL, maybe rename your thread to @ SOE Dev - you might get a response on Magical items.

Should be a new skill book - Magic (5% bonus to incredible lucky shots per level)

Crellion
Parental Control
Merciless.
Posted - 2011.07.12 06:48:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Chiggy W
Edited by: Chiggy W on 09/07/2011 21:46:33
I see you've never bought a $1000 pair of jeans from a Japanese fashion boutique. If you had, you'd understand that when CCP were comparing these things to real items in those devblogs, they weren't lying. You see, $1000 jeans bought from a Japanese fashion boutique are actually indestructible, hence that why in game.

Of course it could just be that CCP are worried about the reaction of little Timmie`s mum when the new outfit she just paid $500 for is destroyed by someone who doesn`t get or appreciate CCP`s fearless new metro sexual in space direction, and she cancels little Timmie`s barbie in space account rather than buy him a new one. We can`t have that now!

Dark and harsh universe is soooooooo 2005 darling, colorful and fabulous is the new direction! Fearless!


Neutral


Best post I have read this year.
YARRRR!! < This is the only eyeware I ll ever need be atch Razz

Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.12 07:32:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Tippia
So you agree then, seeing as how you go straight for the ad hominem? Good.

Ugh. You really don't understand the concept of ad hominem, do you?

Quote:
just because it's expensive doesn't mean people are not going to bring it into battle.

Avoiding the statement I made....
I'd say you have called it quits on this particular part of the discussion. You aren't even replying directly, and can't explain why someone wouldn't carry 3-5 PLEX in their Drake to look for targets.

Quote:
People bring stuff just because it's expensive, regardless of whether or not it's appropriate for the situation…

Laughing Care to share any examples of billion+ ISK useless things players bring to fights?

Quote:
Quote:
when ad hominem is used, it does not create an agreement
No, it is used when you can't come up with a proper counter-argument and go after the debater instead in the hopes that this will make people doubt his argument as a result.

Rolling Eyes Cutting my quotes off again. Listen, don't embarrass yourself. Unlike the NeX store, there can be no opinions when it comes to language. I'm not displaying ad hominem because I am not attempting to use my insults as support to my argument. You cut that part from my quote.

Quote:
Who said anything about every player?

Avoiding the statement I made....
I used hyperbole Rolling Eyes
Saturation occurs when too large of a degree of players owns a particular vanity item.

Quote:
Not in the NeX store, but on the market and as a vanity item.

And how does it get on the market? Through the only supply, the NeX store. The NeX store sets the minimum price.

Quote:
Quote:
You're seriously claiming that CCP have done no research on the matter.
That's pretty much what they've said.

So, how did CCP decide to make NeX items not destroyable over any other option? One choice is preferable the other.

Quote:
Quote:
Stop side stepping. Here's what the end of the sentence was before you kindly cut it off: "...which is completely destructible compared to the very same, indestructible monocle."
…which, as mentioned, is not what we're arguing, now is it? It's not side-stepping when I'm brining you back on topic.

Avoiding the question.... Again.

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Huge waste of time.
So? It solves the problem.

You want EVE to be less enjoyable? That's not a good design philosophy.

Quote:
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Will anyone buy their multi-billion attire over and over?
Again, that's not what we're arguing so you can stop brining it up.

Avoiding the question....
ugh
It is relevant. If people don't buy from the NeX store, the store's implementation is not suitable.

Quote:
Well, that's you. You apparently have no interest in showing off your buying power.

Buying power for repeating the purchase of cheap goods? Not elite.

Quote:
If every alt owns a monocle, then there's obviously no problem with destroying them since everyone keeps buying them and the market just won't stay saturated.

Forums alts are often market alts. They don't fight. They don't lose their items. Items may as well be indestructible, but you want them to be cheap, too.

Quote:
But, of course, you missed the point: you can't have it both ways, so which way do you pick? Repeating sales (and thus not saturated) or elite (and thus not saturated)?

Saturation is not the only negative consequence.
If expensive, sales will be reduced, and repeating sales will be reduced too. This restricts clothing to rich fools who enjoy losing billion ISK monocles. Even you've said that this option is bad compared to cheap/destroyable.

If cheap, sales may be reduced in the long term and EVE will swarm with "elite" people, who buy one-time buy monocles for market/forum alts.

For both of these, players will waste time removing vanity items from their characters each time they undock.
...Why not imagine this procedure is automated?

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.07.12 07:37:00 - [125]
 

NEX store not only sets the minimum price, but also the maximum because no-one is going to pay a premium for a piece of cloth when they can just go to the market, putchase plex, and buy it themselves.

There are so many things wrong with the current implementation of the NEX store >.>

Gurgeh Murat
Minmatar
Blue Republic
Posted - 2011.07.12 12:01:00 - [126]
 


Lucius Vindictus
Amarr
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:47:00 - [127]
 

Do we pee in our pods? I've never seen a urinal in the game...

Seriously.. Sometimes you need to leave stuff up to your imagination. Does there have to be an explanation for everything? Do you want to go to a clothing store every time you get podded just for realism purposes? Before going to battle, maybe you would like to iron your digital shirts in the CQ?

Just maybe all that stuff happens when we are not looking?

Gurgeh Murat
Minmatar
Blue Republic
Posted - 2011.07.13 06:54:00 - [128]
 

Ho Hum, stil no CCP dev response..

Cmon guys? we know you read this, you respond in minutes to stuff thats easy, isnt this one easy? Wasnt it thought through by someone?

bumpity bump

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.07.13 07:03:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Lucius Vindictus
Do we pee in our pods? I've never seen a urinal in the game...

Seriously.. Sometimes you need to leave stuff up to your imagination. Does there have to be an explanation for everything? Do you want to go to a clothing store every time you get podded just for realism purposes? Before going to battle, maybe you would like to iron your digital shirts in the CQ?

Just maybe all that stuff happens when we are not looking?


For me it's about consistency, the basic tl;dr is why should vanity items be magically transported when plenty of other items cost more, and can all be dropped/destroyed, including plex. people still buy and transport them, even with the risks.

Atredies Bonapart
Posted - 2011.07.13 07:04:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: Atredies Bonapart on 13/07/2011 07:04:50
P )

Important Person
Posted - 2011.07.13 07:08:00 - [131]
 

I demand to know why my avatar never has to eat, and where is the kitchen in my CQ?

You'd think that after being in a pod for days you'd wanna whip up some cheesaroni.

Total game breaker.

Mnengli Noiliffe
Posted - 2011.07.13 07:52:00 - [132]
 

well this is one extremely obvious thing.

the clothes are not worth anything AT ALL to produce, its the fkn CLOTHES, not a spaceship!!!

when you pay for them, you are actually buying yourself a lifetime license to produce them for yourself.

so every time you exit your pod, the new set of clothes are manufactured for you instantly and when you undock its just recycled. this costs so little ISK comparing to the spaceship cost it's not worth even mentioning in wallet journal, maybe something like 0.000001 ISK or something like that.

this was mentioned many times, ppl when will you learn?

i think some dense people only notice the posts they like...

Darian Nystrom
Posted - 2011.07.13 08:58:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Darian Nystrom on 13/07/2011 08:59:40
Edited by: Darian Nystrom on 13/07/2011 08:59:01
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Edited by: AnzacPaul on 10/07/2011 04:44:37
This makes absoloutely no sense at all CCP. My implants are lost, my medical clone is lost, MY CORPSE IS IN SPACE, yet apparently your clothing and/or monacle are indestructible?

*Edit* someone beat me to my original point because I failed to read the whole thread. disregard this post.

Mnengli Noiliffe
Posted - 2011.07.13 09:13:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Darian Nystrom
Edited by: Darian Nystrom on 13/07/2011 08:59:40
Edited by: Darian Nystrom on 13/07/2011 08:59:01
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Edited by: AnzacPaul on 10/07/2011 04:44:37
This makes absoloutely no sense at all CCP. My implants are lost, my medical clone is lost, MY CORPSE IS IN SPACE, yet apparently your clothing and/or monacle are indestructible?

*Edit* someone beat me to my original point because I failed to read the whole thread. disregard this post.

because clothes are worthless, they are cloned each time you dock.

you pay for license to use the design.

implants are hard to produce thus are lost.

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.07.13 09:24:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
Originally by: Darian Nystrom
Edited by: Darian Nystrom on 13/07/2011 08:59:40
Edited by: Darian Nystrom on 13/07/2011 08:59:01
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Edited by: AnzacPaul on 10/07/2011 04:44:37
This makes absoloutely no sense at all CCP. My implants are lost, my medical clone is lost, MY CORPSE IS IN SPACE, yet apparently your clothing and/or monacle are indestructible?

*Edit* someone beat me to my original point because I failed to read the whole thread. disregard this post.

because clothes are worthless, they are cloned each time you dock.

you pay for license to use the design.

implants are hard to produce thus are lost.



Nice fairy tale, got some links from CCP Dev posts to back this up?

Mnengli Noiliffe
Posted - 2011.07.13 09:30:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: AnzacPaul
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
Originally by: Darian Nystrom
Edited by: Darian Nystrom on 13/07/2011 08:59:40
Edited by: Darian Nystrom on 13/07/2011 08:59:01
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Edited by: AnzacPaul on 10/07/2011 04:44:37
This makes absoloutely no sense at all CCP. My implants are lost, my medical clone is lost, MY CORPSE IS IN SPACE, yet apparently your clothing and/or monacle are indestructible?

*Edit* someone beat me to my original point because I failed to read the whole thread. disregard this post.

because clothes are worthless, they are cloned each time you dock.

you pay for license to use the design.

implants are hard to produce thus are lost.



Nice fairy tale, got some links from CCP Dev posts to back this up?

there was a post saying its not destroyed when podded, and you can check that in game. what else do you need?

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.07.13 09:56:00 - [137]
 

Edited by: AnzacPaul on 13/07/2011 09:57:08
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe

there was a post saying its not destroyed when podded, and you can check that in game. what else do you need?


Yes, like HOW THEY SURVIVE WHEN NOTHING ELSE IN THE GAME CAN!

You stated
Quote:

because clothes are worthless, they are cloned each time you dock.

you pay for license to use the design.

implants are hard to produce thus are lost


If you cannot produce any evidence to support this, then it is speculation, at best.

I have posted a legitimate question which is clearly explained, and in my opinion, and others so it seems, requires an explanation.

What I have got so far is a bunch of people making things up with absolutely no evidence to support their claim. They may in fact be correct. But until it's proven one way or another, please dont come into this thread calling the question stupid just because you have jusitified it one way or another.

Mnengli Noiliffe
Posted - 2011.07.13 10:04:00 - [138]
 

Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 13/07/2011 10:05:14
why don't they answer first why is there is no inertia or gravity, or why you can fly inside the planets and stars and survive, or why don't you destruct when bumping into other ships and structures.

in any kind of game one needs to invent some explanation for lots of things without developers' help in order to make it believable.

Mnengli Noiliffe
Posted - 2011.07.13 10:09:00 - [139]
 

In fact, if you insist on the clothes issue, I would FIRST of all ask why do they cost more than faction battleship. If the explanation is licensing, at least this makes some sort of sense... Also explains the destroyed on podding thing.

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.07.13 10:21:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 13/07/2011 10:05:14
why don't they answer first why is there is no inertia or gravity, or why you can fly inside the planets and stars and survive, or why don't you destruct when bumping into other ships and structures.

in any kind of game one needs to invent some explanation for lots of things without developers' help in order to make it believable.


no, because they are consistent. If you took damage from bumping into say Ice roids but not stations, or Veldspar, then it would require an explanation as to why one item causes damage, but another doesnt.

Thats all im asking for here, is a reason why all other items in the game are destroyed when podded, but clothes arent when you are clearly naked in your pod.

Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.13 10:25:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: AnzacPaul
clothes arent [destroyed] when you are clearly naked in your pod.

That's cause when naked you don't wear any clothes, thus the clothes can't be destroyed!
Very Happy

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.07.14 00:10:00 - [142]
 

Bumping for a Dev answer.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.14 00:51:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Avoiding the statement I made....
The point you made was irrelevant because it didn't actually address the point at hand: that just because it's expensive doesn't mean people are not going to bring it into battle.
Quote:
You aren't even replying directly, and can't explain why someone wouldn't carry 3-5 PLEX in their Drake to look for targets.
Maybe you should have asked a direct question then.
Quote:
Care to share any examples of billion+ ISK useless things players bring to fights?
Officer mods and pirate ships come to mind, when they're not really needed for the task at hand.
Quote:
Cutting my quotes off again.
Not really, no. But nice work cutting your quote off to make it seem like I cut it off.
Quote:
Unlike the NeX store, there can be no opinions when it comes to language.
Actually, there can be plenty of opinions — that's why legalese was invented.
Quote:
I'm not displaying ad hominem because I am not attempting to use my insults as support to my argument.
…except that you're dismissing the arguments because of conclusions you make in those insults.
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Avoiding the statement I made....
…since it was irrelevant flippancy.
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And how does it get on the market? Through the only supply, the NeX store. The NeX store sets the minimum price.
…which doesn't matter since the argument was about an price increase.
Quote:
So, how did CCP decide to make NeX items not destroyable over any other option? One choice is preferable the other.
Who knows. Tea leaves, by the sounds of it.
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Avoiding the question....
…because it was not relevant to the scenario being discussed.
Quote:
You want EVE to be less enjoyable?
It's not particularly enjoyable to set up instas and warp-ins for a whole region, but it's just one of those precautions you take if you don't want to lose your stuff. Same thing here: don't want to lose it? Take the precautions to protect it.
Quote:
Avoiding the question....
…because it's not relevant or indeed even related to the scenario being discussed.
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It is relevant. If people don't buy from the NeX store, the store's implementation is not suitable.
It is not relevant because it discusses a completely different scenario.
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Buying power for repeating the purchase of cheap goods? Not elite.
It's the same buying power as for the one-time purchase of an expensive good. In fact, it's more buying power than that. Thus elite.
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Forums alts are often market alts. They don't fight. They don't lose their items. Items may as well be indestructible, but you want them to be cheap, too.
Good job missing the point. If everyone owns them, then there is no obviously problem with making them destructible because — in spite of the constant loss that comes from everyone owning them — everyone still owns them… so people are obviously buying them over and over again. Just because some don't get destroyed doesn't mean that no-one gets destroyed, and if everyone owns them, then even those who do get blown up do so, which means they're re-purchasing the thing.

You are trying to say that destructibility → no repeat sales, but at the same time you're trying to say that in spite on no-one repurchasing it, everyone will have it. You can't have it both ways.
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Saturation is not the only negative consequence.
If expensive
Stop right there. This is not the scenario we're talking about so you can stop bringing it up.
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If cheap, sales may be reduced in the long term and EVE will swarm with "elite" people, who buy one-time buy monocles for market/forum alts.
No, because the eliteness will not be marked by the monocle in your picture, but rather by your monocled death record. The measure will simply shift to a metric that actually measures the eliteness.

Wreckar
Posted - 2011.07.14 01:12:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: AnzacPaul

Nice fairy tale, got some links from CCP Dev posts to back this up?


I'll tell you a fairytale, about ships in space....

Speaker4 theDead
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.14 01:48:00 - [145]
 

Perhaps soon you will be able to pay aurum for upgraded petition access. Then you can petition about not being able to actually kill Monocle.
Cool


Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.14 04:03:00 - [146]
 

Don't worry, Tippia, you can label all of my points as "irrelevant" if you can't think of a response which supports your case. I don't mind Smile

Originally by: Tippia

Quote:
[You] can't explain why someone wouldn't carry 3-5 PLEX in their Drake to look for targets.
Maybe you should have asked a direct question then.

Awww, I'm sorry Sad
I'll answer it for you, if it's too difficult. There are several reasons players don't carry PLEX in their Drake while lowsec roaming:
1. It doesn't enhance their combat abilities. Bringing it has no purpose, unlike expensive modules.
2. It's highly valuable.
3. It can disappear in a flash.
Destructible monocles would display all of these qualities. Players wouldn't bring destructible monocles into a fight because these very same reasons. The first reason is what separates monocles from the Snake set. Stop pretending it doesn't exist.

Quote:
Quote:
Care to share any examples of billion+ ISK useless things players bring to fights?
Officer mods and pirate ships come to mind, when they're not really needed for the task at hand.

I heavily formatted the part you conveniently missed.
1. There are a multitude of reasons someone would prefer a Dramiel over a Condor. What would you prefer to roam with if you had 100mil lying around?
2. Officer modules are powerful, with many advantages over their counterparts. They're often used on caps and supers because the large price is justified with a use and purpose.
Don't faff about with "task at hand". Can you predict all the enemies you may encounter? Of course not. There's a reason I fit my ships T2 and not T1. More expensive modules and ships either complete the task faster, or ensure the task is actually completed. For PVE ratting, the task is to earn ISK. More expensive ships and modules mean ISK is earned faster, compared to a T1 only variant. For PVP, the task is to win fights. What's more likely to win, a T1 Condor or a faction Dramiel?
That blows your suggestion that faction ships and officer modules are useless for the "task at hand" out of the water. Care to suggest any billion+ ISK useless, destructible items players willingly bring into a fight?

Quote:
Quote:
Cutting my quotes off again.
Not really, no. But nice work cutting your quote off to make it seem like I cut it off.

I cut this from my own quote: "You do realise that even when"
You cut this off from me: "Furthermore, I'm not actually using ad hominem because I'm not using my insults as evidence."
The part you cut off would have been a nice response to "you can't come up with a proper counter-argument", which was in the very same point where you cut my quote.
Laughing
You should stop ignoring the points I make, especially by dismissing them completely.

Quote:
Quote:
I'm not displaying ad hominem because I am not attempting to use my insults as support to my argument.
…except that you're dismissing the arguments because of conclusions you make in those insults.

Wrong again. You're wrong about a lot of things. I'm dismissing your arguments because, in short, people would not buy destructible vanity items. A quick summary of the reasons follows:
1. No player knowingly or willingly carries billion ISK useless items into a fight.
2. Putting on and taking off clothing items would be a pain. Recustomisation each time before you undock? Does not want. Right now, it's automated.
3. The current implementation will earn greater revenue than anything you're suggesting.
4. The cheap/destroyable implementation you're describing suffers from flaws, such as overall reduced revenue, rage from monocle owners at how expensive monocles suddenly diminish in value, loss of the elite and highsec who never get podded will buy the vanity item once, for a low price, while PVPers and nullsec dwellers won't buy destructible vanity items at all. Minimal revenue.

Part 2, coming in 2ish minutes.

Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.14 04:05:00 - [147]
 

D-D-D-DOUBLE POST

Quote:
Quote:
The NeX store sets the minimum price.
…which doesn't matter since the argument was about an price increase.

The NeX store also sets the maximum price. There is an unlimited and fixed price supply for NeX items, and so demand will only shift if public opinion on NeX items changes. The PLEX:AUR ratio remains the same. You're saying that if there is a constant demand for NeX items its value will increase. However, this is incorrect because a destructible item will automatically have lesser perceived value than an indestructible exact equivalent. The fact that vanity items can sell on the market too is irrelevant. No one will sell a monocle for 1 ISK, and no one will buy a monocle for 20 billion ISK.

Definition of value: The regard that something is held to deserve.
By removing a positive quality from an item, how can you hope to improve its perceived value?

Quote:
Quote:
how did CCP decide to make NeX items not destroyable over any other option?
Who knows. Tea leaves, by the sounds of it.

Wrong.
Read Trebor Daehdoow 2nd, 3rd and 4th posts: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1549785
It seems CCP have chosen indestructible vanity items for the very same reasons I've described.
It seems CCP haven't chosen destructible vanity items, because all of your reasoning is incorrect.
CCP have chosen their approach, because they believe it is currently the best option.

Quote:
don't want to lose it? Take the precautions to protect it.

Why bother forcing players to take precautions over something which doesn't affect combat, ability or other concepts relevant to player interaction? Are you personally hurt each time you see someone wearing a monocle? Don't relate insta-warp undock BMs to monocles. An insta-warp undock BM is a precaution to protect your ship, which is expensive, useful, and can interact with other players, and their financial status.

Quote:
Quote:
If people don't buy from the NeX store, the store's implementation is not suitable.
It is not relevant because it discusses a completely different scenario.

If the NeX store doesn't sell items, it's a failure. This is for all scenarios, and thus is relevant. One major aim of the NeX store is to sell vanity goods, which ties in with the secondary function which is to act as a PLEX sink. If vanity goods do not sell, then the PLEX sink will not function, thus the NeX store will have no function, thus be considered a failure.
This particular quote-chain goes back to an expensive/destroyable approach, in case you're wondering.

Quote:
It's the same buying power as for the one-time purchase of an expensive good. In fact, it's more buying power than that. Thus elite.

Hold it! Under this implementation, every carebear will be elite because they can afford to purchase a cheap monocle once, and never need to repurchase.
This is not a proper indication of eliteness. Besides, if many PVP-faring players buy "elite" monocles, they may end up purchasing a cheap monocle only once, too. The monocle will be removed each and every time they undock, but they'll still be elite for owning a monocle, right? Nope.
The eliteness is a perceived value which comes from the high price. Every highseccer will be "elite".

The price of a monocle needs to be great. However, if the monocle is also destructible then sales will PLUMMET. Elite players who buy the expensive, and destructible, monocle would waste time recustomising their character each time they undock. There won't even be elite PVP players, as many wouldn't bother.

Part 3 (!!), coming in 2ish minutes.

Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.14 04:07:00 - [148]
 

T-T-T-TRIPLE POST

Cheap/Destroyable - "Elite" carebears are a certainty. They never get podded. All "Elite" PVPers won't feel so elite after buying a cheap monocle. There will be two types of PVPers. The first type lose monocle after monocle after monocle. You could consider them elite. If they do exist. The second type remove they monocle before every conflict. For nullsec, this potentially means all the time.

Under this system, every highsec dweller will be "elite". This is certain.
Truly elite PVPers who purchase cheap monocle after cheap monocle may exist. Personally, I doubt it, because these elite players will blend in with the carebears, and thus not stand out.
PVPers who remove their monocle before each conflict will exist, and probably cease after tiring of the practice.
The "elite" carebears are the problem. The truly elite will be indistinguishable from them.

Expensive/destroyable - Massive reduction in sales. Even you agree this is less preferable than cheap/destroyable.
Highsec dwellers will purchase monocles, but sales will be reduced because of lower perceived value.
Uber-elite PVPers players who purchase billion+ ISK monocles time and time again, despite constantly losing them. Doubtable Laughing.
Normal PVPers won't even bother. No sales here.

Quote:
Quote:
Forums alts are often market alts. Items may as well be indestructible, but you want them to be cheap, too.
Good job missing the point. If everyone owns them, then there is no obviously problem with making them destructible because — in spite of the constant loss that comes from everyone owning them — everyone still owns them… so people are obviously buying them over and over again. Just because some don't get destroyed doesn't mean that no-one gets destroyed, and if everyone owns them, then even those who do get blown up do so, which means they're re-purchasing the thing.
You are trying to say that destructibility → no repeat sales, but at the same time you're trying to say that in spite on no-one repurchasing it, everyone will have it. You can't have it both ways.


I'm talking about different player groups.
No repeat sales for the highseccers. They don't get podded. Saturation of "elite" players.
Repeat sales for the few truly "elite" players, who undock into danger without removing their monocle. Indistinguishable from the highseccers.
PVPers who remove their monocle before each fight will have no repeat sales.

So, the only repeat sales are from the elite players, who are small in number and can't even express their eliteness.

Quote:
Quote:
Saturation is not the only negative consequence.
If expensive
Stop right there. This is not the scenario we're talking about so you can stop bringing it up.

In relation to the cheap/destructible scenario, then.
There will be highsec carebear saturation.
Repeat-buying elite players will be an extremely low population who will blend in with the highseccers.
There may be PVPers who carefully remove vanity items before every conflict.

This will lead to low revenue, yet possibly a high initial burst of sales. However, revenue is all that really matters. CCP would rather sell one hundred 12k AUR monocles than one thousand 1k AUR monocles

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the eliteness will not be marked by the monocle in your picture, but rather by your monocled death record. The measure will simply shift to a metric that actually measures the eliteness.

Monocle death record? I don't see a monocle death record.
Will this monocle death record be shown under every single player on the forums?
Will CCP need to implement entirely new systems which allow vanity items to be shown on killmails? Vanity items which aren't even attached to the player on the character sheet or API?
Will all the corp killboards need to recode?
The truly elite and rich sure will feel almighty as everyone laughs at their constant, pointless deaths and spending! Only players who die a lot would be elite. Laughing

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.14 13:24:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Don't worry, Tippia, you can label all of my points as "irrelevant" if you can't think of a response which supports your case.
I label them irrelevant because they have nothing to do with the topic. You keep bringing up the expensive/destructible scenario to bolster your point when I have never discussed it. It is irrelevant to what I'm saying.
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I heavily formatted the part you conveniently missed.
No, I didn't miss it. You're just assuming that pirate ships and officer mods can't be useless. It's actually very simple for them to be useless — why bring a Bhaalgorn to a POS bash, for instance? That extra expense is completely useless, and I've seen people do it anyway.
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That blows your suggestion that faction ships and officer modules are useless for the "task at hand" out of the water.
No it doesn't, because you assume in your examples that they are useful for the task at hand. It is more predictable than you claim. So the answer remains: officer mods and pirate ships come to mind, when they're not really needed for the task at hand.
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Wrong again.
…and yet the thread is full of examples of you doing it, so no, not really. That takes care of the point above it as well.
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1. No player knowingly or willingly carries billion ISK useless items into a fight.
…except that it's not particularly hard to find examples of them doing just that.
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2. Putting on and taking off clothing items would be a pain.
Taking precautions is often a pain, but people do it anyway if there's some advantage to it (which there often is).
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3. The current implementation will earn greater revenue than anything you're suggesting.
…except low-price/destructible. The one lesson to be had about this kind of venture is that volume is king. But then again, the main purpose is not to make money, but to reduce liability, so meh.
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4. The cheap/destroyable implementation you're describing suffers from flaws
The only real flaw of the ones you list would be the rage from early adopters, but that's always the case with early adoption, and doesn't differ from anything else that has been nerfed in EVE. The market and plain old sociology takes care of the rest.
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The NeX store also sets the maximum price.
Yes, but through the poor choice of combining expensive/indestructible, that maximum prices is very low compared to the NeX price. More than that though, with the current implementation, the price cannot go up — it can only go down. There's almost zero flexibility. Make it destructible and the value can go up, all of a sudden.
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Wrong.
Read Trebor Daehdoow 2nd, 3rd and 4th posts
…which doesn't contradict them having used tea leaves to pick the strategy. That's just a list of assumptions — they certainly haven't tested it, because that's what they're doing now.
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Don't relate insta-warp undock BMs to monocles.
Why not? It protects your stuff, much like leaving expensive things behind would. It's not about what it protects — it's about effort → safety.
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One major aim of the NeX store is to sell vanity goods, which ties in with the secondary function which is to act as a PLEX sink.
Wrong way around…
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This particular quote-chain goes back to an expensive/destroyable approach, in case you're wondering.
I know — that's why it's not relevant.
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Hold it! Under this implementation, every carebear will be elite
No, because they will have no death record.
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Monocle death record? I don't see a monocle death record.
Because there's no need for it at the moment. Make them destructible, and there will be… Monocle+constant risk of losing it=elite; monocle+highsec mission running=peasant. The eliteness marker will shift from being just the monocle to being a monocle in context. Everyone can own a Bentley; few can afford to be driven around in it.

Sciencegeek deathdealer
Posted - 2011.07.14 13:33:00 - [150]
 

your clone insurance pays for it...?

There is no RP reason, CCP just want to make money.


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