open All Channels
seplocked Assembly Hall
blankseplocked [Proposal] Disable ship swaps at hangar while under aggro
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6

Author Topic

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.12 05:01:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Adunh Slavy

the design philosophy of committing to a fight


Uhh, what philosophy again?

Whoever told you that is an idiot, this game revolves around NOT committing to the fight while making your idiot victim commit to it.


Yeah, ya think so huh? Tell it to the devs then.

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=427

Here I'll help,

"Another reason has to do with game mechanic and can be summed up to pretty much the same argument as when warp core stabilizers where balanced. When going into a fight we want people to commit to a fight. That means when you go into a fight you are risking your ship or ships, not just warping in on anything and if you can't handle it you just warp off."

So so stabs should be changed back to the old way, nano-nerf should be undone too I take it? I'm sure CCP devs appreciate you calling them idiots.

That thing in your mouth? It's called a foot.


Way to ignore that he was pointing out Eve is about fighting as UNfairly as possible. You think anyone with a brain goes willingly into a 'fair' fight in Eve or RL? Of course not. You look for advantage, and take it.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.12 08:45:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Toovhon
Well I wouldn't want to be the Orca pilot who gets screwed over by his corpmate in that situation.


See the bottom of post 80 dimwit.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.12 08:50:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Toovhon

Continue to gloss over that you screwed up and it's your fault you died. Whatever you do, never deal with reality.


*yawn*

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.12 08:57:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan

Do you even understand what he is saying?


Yep, apparently you don't. Nice attempt at trying to back off from calling devs idiots though.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.12 09:52:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Toovhon

Continue to gloss over that you screwed up and it's your fault you died. Whatever you do, never deal with reality.


*yawn*


So your ignorance of your own failings is willful then. Ok. No one can help you here if you're not prepared to learn from your mistakes.

Ineka
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.07.12 10:28:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: wiersma
while i do like your idea its has some problems. like playing in WH or 0.0 space where people are dependant of such tactics.

so if you could find a way (discribe) how this would be inplemented without screwing over other players i would love to read it.


Just make it impossible in high sec like neutral rep should also be, either you're in the same fleet/corp and so get the aggression timer, or you're not and shouldn't be able to without concord response.

Nasty abuses of game mechanics should get nasty consequences but they don't, it's Eve, so you better find some friends wardec his corp/alliance and spank them until they ask for mercy.

Just Another Toon
Posted - 2011.07.12 10:57:00 - [97]
 

they should not be able to dock full stop! its feckng annoying. you go blinky you should have a docking timer - simple!

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.12 14:55:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Toovhon
So your ignorance of your own failings is willful then. Ok. No one can help you here if you're not prepared to learn from your mistakes.


Are you always an idiot or do you just act like one for special occasions?

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:12:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Toovhon
So your ignorance of your own failings is willful then. Ok. No one can help you here if you're not prepared to learn from your mistakes.


Are you always an idiot or do you just act like one for special occasions?


Do you always insult people who point out you're the one who screwed up, or do you still not understand you got yourself blown up? :-D Which is it? Stupidity or delusion?

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:22:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Toovhon
Do you always insult people who point out you're the one who screwed up, or do you still not understand you got yourself blown up? :-D Which is it? Stupidity or delusion?


Aww, did I hurt your feelings? You're the one that tossed the first insult and now you want to whine? boo hoo. Cry more ya hypocrite. Maybe you can dock your personality in your orca and get a new one, rather than being exposed as a simpleton.

P.S. Thanks for the bump

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:37:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Just Another Toon
they should not be able to dock full stop! its feckng annoying. you go blinky you should have a docking timer - simple!

This, at the very least. I'm still a fan of transferring aggression though, as the orca pilot is clearly lending aid in a fight.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:43:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 12/07/2011 16:43:31
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Omara Otawan

Do you even understand what he is saying?


Yep, apparently you don't. Nice attempt at trying to back off from calling devs idiots though.


Care to point out where I said anything like that again? Oh wait, you cant.

My exact wording was: "whoever told you that (there is a design philosophy of committing to a fight in EVE) is an idiot".

Factual evidence that there isnt such a philosophy (non-exhaustive list):

- non-uniform speed properties on ships
- limited range warp disruption and speed control modules
- long range weapon systems
- anchorable warp disruption bubbles
- wormhole jump/aggression mechanics
- logoff after jump mechanics
- logoff mechanics regarding supercapitals

Now it was YOU who wrongly deduced that there must be such a philosophy from the dev blog you quoted, which contained exactly zero evidence in that respect. Conclusion: I called YOU an idiot.


Bump so you may humiliate yourself some more, it is very entertaining so far. What are you going to do now, dodge the point again?

Morar Santee
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:56:00 - [103]
 

Actually, it's simply a moronic game mechanic to give high-sec griefers a 100% chance to walk free without loss, 100% of the time.

The issue isn't that the people using Orcas swap to a better ship and kill someone. The problem is that they get pwned regularly enough, but instantly switch to a shuttle and warp out.

Solution is simple: If ship maintenance array is used, the Orca pilot is forwarded all flags of the parties using the array.

Effect: Miners etc. can still switch ships when aggressed, but griefers lose their invincible walk free card. Want to use an Orca to win at high-sec griefing? Fine. Risk vs reward says you stupid ****er should better bring a fleet to keep it alive.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:42:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Toovhon
Do you always insult people who point out you're the one who screwed up, or do you still not understand you got yourself blown up? :-D Which is it? Stupidity or delusion?


Aww, did I hurt your feelings? You're the one that tossed the first insult and now you want to whine? boo hoo. Cry more ya hypocrite. Maybe you can dock your personality in your orca and get a new one, rather than being exposed as a simpleton.

P.S. Thanks for the bump


You think you hurt my feelings? *snorts, amused* When did you manage that? Dude - you're now a laughing stock on these forums. You a) fell for the oldest bait in the game, b) were too dumb to run when it because painfully obvious twice that you were about to get ganked, and b) - worst of all - made the tragi-comic error of whinging about it here :-D

You haven't hurt my feelings you poor fool. You've provided non-stop amusement from your first post *chuckles*

But hey, if - like realising you were the reason you got blown away - you need to believe you've hurt my feelings (I can't even type that with a straight face :-D ), that's cool with me. In fact I encourage you to spread this thread around as much as possible. Link it everywhere. Make it your sig.

After all you're not a dumb **** who keeps digging his hole deeper. No, you're the poor put upon hero, who was the tragic victim of an unfair tactic by a nasty wasty pirate, who no doubt Needs To Be Taught A Lesson™.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:46:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Morar Santee
Actually, it's simply a moronic game mechanic to give high-sec griefers a 100% chance to walk free without loss, 100% of the time.

The issue isn't that the people using Orcas swap to a better ship and kill someone. The problem is that they get pwned regularly enough, but instantly switch to a shuttle and warp out.

Solution is simple: If ship maintenance array is used, the Orca pilot is forwarded all flags of the parties using the array.

Effect: Miners etc. can still switch ships when aggressed, but griefers lose their invincible walk free card. Want to use an Orca to win at high-sec griefing? Fine. Risk vs reward says you stupid ****er should better bring a fleet to keep it alive.


How do you differentiate between miners and non-miners? And don't say 'because he has a mining mod fit', cause then you've clearly not seen or heard of the many wonderful 'when miners fight back' incidents in Eve.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.12 18:08:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Toovhon
Originally by: Morar Santee
Actually, it's simply a moronic game mechanic to give high-sec griefers a 100% chance to walk free without loss, 100% of the time.

The issue isn't that the people using Orcas swap to a better ship and kill someone. The problem is that they get pwned regularly enough, but instantly switch to a shuttle and warp out.

Solution is simple: If ship maintenance array is used, the Orca pilot is forwarded all flags of the parties using the array.

Effect: Miners etc. can still switch ships when aggressed, but griefers lose their invincible walk free card. Want to use an Orca to win at high-sec griefing? Fine. Risk vs reward says you stupid ****er should better bring a fleet to keep it alive.


How do you differentiate between miners and non-miners? And don't say 'because he has a mining mod fit', cause then you've clearly not seen or heard of the many wonderful 'when miners fight back' incidents in Eve.

Pretty simple. A miner doesn't pull aggression then swap ships. Usually goes the other way around. Thus, the orca won't have an aggression timer in that situation.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.07.12 18:32:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Bagehi

Pretty simple. A miner doesn't pull aggression then swap ships. Usually goes the other way around. Thus, the orca won't have an aggression timer in that situation.



That would create an 'invisible aggression' exploit/feature using ship maintenance bay and fitting service though.

Now I agree the orca switcheroo is kinda lame, as is the neutral logistics and pretty much everything that concerns hisec pvp. But its not worth opening THAT can of worms for it.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.12 18:40:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Bagehi
Originally by: Toovhon
Originally by: Morar Santee
Actually, it's simply a moronic game mechanic to give high-sec griefers a 100% chance to walk free without loss, 100% of the time.

The issue isn't that the people using Orcas swap to a better ship and kill someone. The problem is that they get pwned regularly enough, but instantly switch to a shuttle and warp out.

Solution is simple: If ship maintenance array is used, the Orca pilot is forwarded all flags of the parties using the array.

Effect: Miners etc. can still switch ships when aggressed, but griefers lose their invincible walk free card. Want to use an Orca to win at high-sec griefing? Fine. Risk vs reward says you stupid ****er should better bring a fleet to keep it alive.


How do you differentiate between miners and non-miners? And don't say 'because he has a mining mod fit', cause then you've clearly not seen or heard of the many wonderful 'when miners fight back' incidents in Eve.

Pretty simple. A miner doesn't pull aggression then swap ships. Usually goes the other way around. Thus, the orca won't have an aggression timer in that situation.



Puts a hell of a damper on using ECM or combat drones with your barge, or ECM mods (if a mining BS is being used) for defence, or to break target lock to jump away.

I've killed attacking frigates, dessies and even really dumb cruiser pilots with my miners' combat drones, and often carry ECM drones to break lock. I don't just sit there and get ganked.

Also I still say it's bloody unfortunate for the unwitting Orca pilot who has some dumb or malicious corpmate aggro another player, and then dock.

Really I don't think yours is a winning idea, but I agree it would be nice to make it a tad tougher for Orcas to be used as get out of jail for free cards. I'm just not sure how you'd go about it without breaking the game for others, as I point out above.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.07.12 18:54:00 - [109]
 

Just add a straight aggro timer to ship-change like we already have for docking and jumping, 30s-45s would be more than enough to make the trick much harder to use (still viable against utter morons though). Refitting need not be impacted at all.

No need to change anything else really.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:13:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Toovhon

Ego protecting crap



Yeah, and the issue is being discussed. Don't let obvious smack you in the face, you apparently can't recognize it.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:16:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan

Care to point out where I said anything like that again? Oh wait, you cant.



Cause I don't need to. :)

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:18:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Toovhon

Also I still say it's bloody unfortunate for the unwitting Orca pilot who has some dumb or malicious corpmate aggro another player, and then dock.



This is why the docking transfers agro is problematic. Denying use of the array while the player is red boxed is the most clean solution.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:24:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Omara Otawan

Care to point out where I said anything like that again? Oh wait, you cant.



Cause I don't need to. :)


Heh, I kinda suspected you were a troll when I couldnt find any killmail of the incident.

Good amount of bites though, well played sir. Razz

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:28:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Toovhon
Originally by: Bagehi
Pretty simple. A miner doesn't pull aggression then swap ships. Usually goes the other way around. Thus, the orca won't have an aggression timer in that situation.



Puts a hell of a damper on using ECM or combat drones with your barge, or ECM mods (if a mining BS is being used) for defence, or to break target lock to jump away.

I've killed attacking frigates, dessies and even really dumb cruiser pilots with my miners' combat drones, and often carry ECM drones to break lock. I don't just sit there and get ganked.

Also I still say it's bloody unfortunate for the unwitting Orca pilot who has some dumb or malicious corpmate aggro another player, and then dock.

Really I don't think yours is a winning idea, but I agree it would be nice to make it a tad tougher for Orcas to be used as get out of jail for free cards. I'm just not sure how you'd go about it without breaking the game for others, as I point out above.

Why would you have to worry about using ECM/drones/etc if the purpose is to break the lock so you can warp? If you can warp and have to use an orca to switch ships out, you'd be doing that in a safe location where the orca will remain safe (like in a POS shield). If you've just beaten off an attacker with drones, why would you be switching out ships? Besides, Orcas usually aren't just left sitting somewhere AFK that isn't safe. Also, the Orca has to actually be in fleet, with the hangar access set for someone to interface with it in a way that could pass aggro.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:36:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Bagehi
Also, the Orca has to actually be in fleet, with the hangar access set for someone to interface with it in a way that could pass aggro.



Which is exactly the problem, invisible aggro transfer. Since the Orca hangars are just regular hangar arrays, that would apply to all ships with these facilities.

Bad idea, way too much griefing potential for hisec, and way too exploitable for low/null as well.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.13 02:04:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Bagehi
Originally by: Toovhon
Originally by: Bagehi
Pretty simple. A miner doesn't pull aggression then swap ships. Usually goes the other way around. Thus, the orca won't have an aggression timer in that situation.



Puts a hell of a damper on using ECM or combat drones with your barge, or ECM mods (if a mining BS is being used) for defence, or to break target lock to jump away.

I've killed attacking frigates, dessies and even really dumb cruiser pilots with my miners' combat drones, and often carry ECM drones to break lock. I don't just sit there and get ganked.

Also I still say it's bloody unfortunate for the unwitting Orca pilot who has some dumb or malicious corpmate aggro another player, and then dock.

Really I don't think yours is a winning idea, but I agree it would be nice to make it a tad tougher for Orcas to be used as get out of jail for free cards. I'm just not sure how you'd go about it without breaking the game for others, as I point out above.

Why would you have to worry about using ECM/drones/etc if the purpose is to break the lock so you can warp? If you can warp and have to use an orca to switch ships out, you'd be doing that in a safe location where the orca will remain safe (like in a POS shield). If you've just beaten off an attacker with drones, why would you be switching out ships? Besides, Orcas usually aren't just left sitting somewhere AFK that isn't safe. Also, the Orca has to actually be in fleet, with the hangar access set for someone to interface with it in a way that could pass aggro.



Why would I worry about ECM if I want to break a lock? Huh? What are you on about? You do know what ECM mods and drones are for, right?

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.13 02:10:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
LAHLAHLAHLAHLAHLAHLAHLAHLAH! I CAN'T HEAR YOUUUUU! LAHLAHLAHLAHLAHLAHLAHLAH I'M NOT LISTENINNNNNNGGGG *ears covered with hands* LAHLAHLAHLAHLAH!


Be sure to return with more posts of how nasty unfair pirates killed your dumb arse over and over :-D

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.13 03:56:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Toovhon

Also I still say it's bloody unfortunate for the unwitting Orca pilot who has some dumb or malicious corpmate aggro another player, and then dock.

Exactly. Which is precisely why aggro should NOT transfer to the Orca.

Keep in mind that an Orca used for legitimate purposes (PvP is also legitimate, but you know what I mean) cannot be held responsible for a jerk or noob doing something dumb.

And keep even further in mind that access to the Orca's ship maintenance bay is fleet-based; that's pretty broad. So, the Orca pilot may just be rendering docking services to people who aren't even in his corp. It takes only 1 jerk from a different corp, for instance, to really screw the totally innocent Orca pilot over.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.13 22:26:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Toovhon

Be sure to return with more posts of how nasty unfair pirates killed your dumb arse over and over :-D


Be sure to let me know when your opinion not only become relevant, but are also facts.

Chester A Nimitz
Posted - 2011.07.13 22:30:00 - [120]
 

QQ MORE


Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only