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blankseplocked [Proposal] Disable ship swaps at hangar while under aggro
 
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.09 15:08:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: j1tabug IWINIWINIWIN

stuff



Not going to play the hypothetical dilemma game. Find someone who cares about protecting the get out of fight free card orca trick, you'll get more sympathy.

j1tabug IWINIWINIWIN
Posted - 2011.07.09 15:16:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: j1tabug IWINIWINIWIN

stuff



Not going to play the hypothetical dilemma game. Find someone who cares about protecting the get out of fight free card orca trick, you'll get more sympathy.


Arr you choose not to answer how sweet

You seem to care quite a lot otherwise why els would you still be here

As ive said eve isnt a nice place and the evey thing to do is use that gtfo free card but due to your own bloodlust you chose not to and you died to a better eve player but you come here and cry then you insult and use foul language because your warped e-honour makes you think that a "get out of jail free card" goes against the spirit of eve.

I hope one day you will learn the true spirit of eve and start using your own "dirty tricks" instead of crying about loosing

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.09 15:23:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: j1tabug IWINIWINIWIN

*yawn*



Awww, poor baby, I didn't go for your hypothetical crap. You keep on defending the cheap trick though with the "cry more" business, do that gankbear stereotype proud.

You want to maintain a tactic that allows you to wimp out, like not posting with your main. I'll let that speak for it self.

j1tabug IWINIWINIWIN
Posted - 2011.07.09 15:36:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: j1tabug IWINIWINIWIN

*yawn*



Awww, poor baby, I didn't go for your hypothetical crap. You keep on defending the cheap trick though with the "cry more" business, do that gankbear stereotype proud.

You want to maintain a tactic that allows you to wimp out, like not posting with your main. I'll let that speak for it self.


You still dont understand even though its been explained to you a dozen times my dear im afraid you are beyond hope

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.09 15:38:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: j1tabug IWINIWINIWIN

lame attempt



Going to need to do better than that, try again.

Nariya Kentaya
Coalition Of Gentlemen.
Posted - 2011.07.10 03:04:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: j1tabug IWINIWINIWIN

stuff



Not going to play the hypothetical dilemma game. Find someone who cares about protecting the get out of fight free card orca trick, you'll get more sympathy.


alright, by your own logic, we should remove fleets aswell, because as any whiner knows, fleets are unfair because it makes it more then 1v1, and bringing in an orca to swap ships is the same as if he just swapped out with a buddy in a fleet by moving out of combat range.
you really need to learn better, you had a window, and should have known your ship couldnt take it, its a legitamate tactic, shoulda either A) warped out, or B) called in a buddy to either rep or help you out with DPS (though with your attitude, i doubt anyone would come). fact is, you did neither, you chose to die.

DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar
Republic University

Posted - 2011.07.10 03:23:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: DeMichael Crimson on 10/07/2011 03:45:27



Actually, I like the idea. Just make it apply to high security only.

It's like the 'Old West' when two persons agreed to a personal duel know as a 'Showdown' which the Sheriff would let happen.

Global Criminal Countdowns such as shooting a neutral are handled by Concord (Sheriff) which is done very quickly. Getting a personal Criminal Countdown (Stealing) towards another player is asking for combat (Showdown).

If someone in high security transgresses a neutral player and get's criminally flagged for stealing, they should not be allowed to switch ships during the 15 minute timer. If the neutral player responds and initiates combat, they can not switch ships during that 15 minute timer.

The reason is because the player made the decision to transgress a neutral while in that specific ship and was caught 'Red' handed (so to speak) and is looking for a 'Showdown'. If the neutral player shoots the transgressor, he too becomes locked out of switching ships in that 15 minute timer since he decided to participate in the 'Showdown'.

However, if the neutral player doesn't shoot or agress the transgressor, that neutral player can switch ships and then enter into the 'Showdown'.

Both players can also run and hide (Dock in Station) after starting the 'Showdown' if they desire.

Of course both players can also have their Corp (Gang) members jump in and do Remote Repair but they can't shoot unless shot at first.

This could lead to some very interesting 'Showdowns' happening. Sorta like 'Showdown at the OK Corral'. It wouldn't take much to program this into the code mechanics and it wouldn't break the game. Actually, I think it would make the game more balanced and also level the playing field.

That's my 2 ISK worth.

DMC


EDIT:
Adunh Slavy, you can edit your original post and add this idea if you like it. Also you can post support to this proposal when you post a reply.

Those that say - You made a choice, bla bla bla, this will break the game mechanics, bla bla bla, etc, are just trolling which I see happening a lot in this thread. Just ignore them.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.10 06:42:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Nariya Kentaya

alright, by your own logic, we should remove fleets aswell, because as any whiner knows, fleets are unfair because it makes it more then 1v1, and bringing in an orca to swap ships is the same as if he just swapped out with a buddy in a fleet by moving out of combat range.



It is against the design philosophy of committing to a fight. If you can't tell the difference, then you're not as insightful as you pretend to be.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.10 06:48:00 - [39]
 

Not being able to swap is a bad idea. You just need to be faster to catch him in his original non-threatening ship, and not stick around when another ship warps in.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.10 06:53:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: DeMichael Crimson

Those that say - You made a choice, bla bla bla, this will break the game mechanics, bla bla bla, etc, are just trolling which I see happening a lot in this thread. Just ignore them.


They are attempting to defend the tactic because they use it. The "cry more" stuff, the "carebear" crap is one of the oldest games on Eve forums. Just the typical gankbear whine and attempt at intimidation.

As for your idea, that sounds as though it may be more complicated that the current flagging system can handle. What I am proposing is quite simple. A player can not switch ships at a ship hangar while they are being red boxed. They can eject, deal with the session timer and then switch ships. but not a direct swap while being red boxed.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.10 06:58:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Toovhon
Not being able to swap is a bad idea. You just need to be faster to catch him in his original non-threatening ship, and not stick around when another ship warps in.


It's not about me being faster or slower. It's about someone getting a cheap way out of a fight, a way out that goes against a design philosophy that CCP has been promoting for years - having players commit to fights.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.10 07:12:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Toovhon
Not being able to swap is a bad idea. You just need to be faster to catch him in his original non-threatening ship, and not stick around when another ship warps in.


It's not about me being faster or slower. It's about someone getting a cheap way out of a fight, a way out that goes against a design philosophy that CCP has been promoting for years - having players commit to fights.


So that excuses you not being smart enough to run away when the odds turn in the other player's favour? As if most can theft isn't a setup anyway :-D

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.10 07:46:00 - [43]
 

I'm going to bookmark this thread on how a OP can quickly lose all credibility with the public audience once he gets all riled up and caught up in personal attacks and irrelevant arguments.

As for the actual proposal, I don't think this is a good idea. So somebody is aggro'ing me, that means I cannot jump out of my ship to change ships to come back to kill him? Sounds like a birthday present for gankers and pirates to me.




Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.10 08:42:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Kaelie Onren

I'm going to bookmark this thread on how a OP can quickly lose all credibility with the public audience once he gets all riled up and caught up in personal attacks and irrelevant arguments.



Good for you, just add another personal attack in there while you're at it. Rolling Eyes

Originally by: Kaelie Onren

As for the actual proposal, I don't think this is a good idea. So somebody is aggro'ing me, that means I cannot jump out of my ship to change ships to come back to kill him? Sounds like a birthday present for gankers and pirates to me.



The proposal is that you can't swap ships into and out of the hangar array. you can eject, warp off and come back and get another ship once the session timer is up.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.10 08:44:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Toovhon

So that excuses you not being smart enough to run away when the odds turn in the other player's favour? As if most can theft isn't a setup anyway :-D


Has nothing to do with me, it has to do with the commit to a fight design philosophy. Sorry, but fail, try again.

Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.10 11:56:00 - [46]
 

It certainly sounds like and behaves like an exploit. CCP just need to identify it as one.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.07.10 14:06:00 - [47]
 

So you failed to see the situation change and get out? Now you come on here complaining and then cry when others point out your failure?

I like this thread already. Carry on. Cool

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.07.10 14:57:00 - [48]
 

So not actually denying hangar swaps but rather maintenance array swaps?

As long as it applies to high-sec only, I see no problem with it.

Clean up your post (lifestory is really unnecessary Smile) and remove the mention of hangar for support.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.10 15:09:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Kaelie Onren

I'm going to bookmark this thread on how a OP can quickly lose all credibility with the public audience once he gets all riled up and caught up in personal attacks and irrelevant arguments.



Good for you, just add another personal attack in there while you're at it. Rolling Eyes



No referral to your background, no referral to your name, race, upbringing or social class or experience, no unfounded assumptions about you, only the evidence of the past posts on this thread.

Actually sounds to me like I was just stating facts. It seems that the problem may be that you take many statements as personal, thus setting off a derailed argument which is a digression from the actual thread. Which, this branch is soon in danger of being, if we were to continue this meta-discussion about how you take things personally.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.10 15:33:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Kaelie Onren

<The "I am not doing what I am doing." essay>



LOL. You can play the innocent little lamb game someplace else. If it bugs you that I don't take crap on forums and throw it right back, then feel free to ignore me. Other wise deal with it.

Since you've nothing to add to the topic, you can now be cited as a hypocrite.

Thanks for playing.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.10 15:47:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Mag's
So you failed to see the situation change and get out? Now you come on here complaining and then cry when others point out your failure?

I like this thread already. Carry on. Cool


Rolling Eyes Has nothing to do with me. It has to do with the cheap little tactic to avoid committing to a fight. Thanks for trying the "cry more" tactic. Refer to the P.S.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.07.10 16:51:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Mag's
So you failed to see the situation change and get out? Now you come on here complaining and then cry when others point out your failure?

I like this thread already. Carry on. Cool


Rolling Eyes Has nothing to do with me. It has to do with the cheap little tactic to avoid committing to a fight. Thanks for trying the "cry more" tactic. Refer to the P.S.
[x] Adunh Slavy made the OP.
[x] Adunh Slavy talked about himself and his fail.
[ ] I said "cry more".
[x] Adunh Slavy cries a lot anyway.
[ ] Cloaks were mentioned.
[x] Adunh Slavy seems to be upset.
[ ] Profit was had.

Great thread, will read again. Very Happy

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.10 17:05:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Mag's
So you failed to see the situation change and get out? Now you come on here complaining and then cry when others point out your failure?

I like this thread already. Carry on. Cool

Rolling Eyes Has nothing to do with me. It has to do with the cheap little tactic to avoid committing to a fight. Thanks for trying the "cry more" tactic. Refer to the P.S.

Yeah, except he didn't avoid the fight, did he? He switched ships, and you got PWNED, b*tch.

You moron. You fell for the oldest trick in the book. Even 3-weeks old noobs know better than to blindly jump on a can-flipper. And yet you went for it. Your choice, your consequences. He could also have called in his corp buddies to warp to 0 on your ass. That is just one of the risks you run for taking the bait.

You are pretty shameless, really. Most players, when they make a booboo like this, just shake their heads, smile at their own stupidity, and then move on. Not you, apparently.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.07.10 17:42:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
..Not you, apparently.

Not CCP either actually, the idea of unscoutable forces is something they want to get rid off and is one of the main reasons for cyno's probably being changed Soon™.

Last I checked/heard the maintenance array trick is complete consequence avoidance, as even if a victim is prepared and beats the crap out of the griefer, he can just store ship leaving an unaggressed pod which brings concord if attacked.

It is like playing kick-can and then carrying the can around Very Happy

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.10 17:51:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Ranka Mei
..Not you, apparently.

Not CCP either actually, the idea of unscoutable forces is something they want to get rid off and is one of the main reasons for cyno's probably being changed Soon™.

[Citation needed]

Quote:
Last I checked/heard the maintenance array trick is complete consequence avoidance, as even if a victim is prepared and beats the crap out of the griefer, he can just store ship leaving an unaggressed pod which brings concord if attacked.


Then he just shouldn't fire at the pod. Doh. :) But that's problem here, isn't it? The OP apparently can't control himself very well. And I bet he would petition it too, if he shot the pod. Ugh!

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.10 18:54:00 - [56]
 

This thread is hilarious :-D

The OP is dumb enough to attack a bait can thief.

The OP sees an Orca warp in. He keeps trying to kill the no doubt well tanked bait.

The bait ship enters the Orca. The OP does nothing.

A T3 pops out of the Orca. The OP probably tried to attack it :-D Certainly the OP still didn't run.

*cue locking sounds*

*POP* The OP's sad little ship vanishes in a cloud of plasma.

In summary the OP had every chance to prevent or later disengage from the agression he was clearly beyond being able to cope with.

But instead of learning an important lesson in Eve, the OP decides to get on the forums and start wailing that those nasty wasty pirates won't follow Marquess of Queensberry Rules :-D

When the OP's noob-level mistakes and stupidity are then promptly pointed out to him, he starts pummeling his little fists ineffectively on the ground, cries more, and continues on his epic fail to get that Eve is street fighting, not boxing in a ring with rules.

My question is: how is someone suffering from near total braindeath able to turn his PC on, much less play Eve?

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.10 19:14:00 - [57]
 

Such typical Eve tough guy bravodo. This is why I put the P.S. in the first post, because all the internet tough guys come up with the cry more crap. They, some of you, don't care about the issue and that it is against design philosophy.

Thanks for helping me prove the point of the sorts that defend these lame tactics. Of course no matter what I say, the mentality will always retort with "cry more" or "u mad". It's too difficult to discuss the actual issue. It's too dangerous discuss it for some of you, who wish to divert attention from such a cheap little trick and attempt to place all the blame on the messenger.

None of you are objective enough to face up to the fact that this lame tactic goes against the commit to a fight design philosophy. You'd rather whine and waggle your fingers at me. Just another lame tactic.

Keep making my point for me :)

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.07.10 19:22:00 - [58]
 

Was a flurry of Dev activity on null/cyno improvements back in February if I recall. Just regular posts in different threads so finding it with the broken search is not something I'll do without being drunk/drugged.
(Cyno delay, cyno displacement, mobile jammer and so on were the thread topics I think).
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Then he just shouldn't fire at the pod. Doh. :) But that's problem here, isn't it? The OP apparently can't control himself very well. And I bet he would petition it too, if he shot the pod. Ugh!

Don't think he shot the pod, but you are missing the point rather badly.
The array trick allow us to completely circumvent aggression mechanics .. the very same mechanics that people want made harsher by extending dock aggression and making RR subject to it.

There is no reason whatsoever for maintenance arrays to be excluded from the aggression mechanics, but CCP in their infinite ignorance probably don't know how to fix it so hopes it goes away on its own.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.10 19:35:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Such typical Eve tough guy bravodo. This is why I put the P.S. in the first post, because all the internet tough guys come up with the cry more crap. They, some of you, don't care about the issue and that it is against design philosophy.

Thanks for helping me prove the point of the sorts that defend these lame tactics. Of course no matter what I say, the mentality will always retort with "cry more" or "u mad". It's too difficult to discuss the actual issue. It's too dangerous discuss it for some of you, who wish to divert attention from such a cheap little trick and attempt to place all the blame on the messenger.

None of you are objective enough to face up to the fact that this lame tactic goes against the commit to a fight design philosophy. You'd rather whine and waggle your fingers at me. Just another lame tactic.

Keep making my point for me :)


Keep failing to admit you got yourself killed through your own stupidity. You had several chances to avoid your destruction, and then to avoid being mocked here. But you didn't take a single one of them. As I said - this thread is hilarious :-D

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.10 19:37:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Then he just shouldn't fire at the pod. Doh. :) But that's problem here, isn't it? The OP apparently can't control himself very well. And I bet he would petition it too, if he shot the pod. Ugh!

Don't think he shot the pod, but you are missing the point rather badly.
The array trick allow us to completely circumvent aggression mechanics .. the very same mechanics that people want made harsher by extending dock aggression and making RR subject to it.

There is no reason whatsoever for maintenance arrays to be excluded from the aggression mechanics, but CCP in their infinite ignorance probably don't know how to fix it so hopes it goes away on its own.


There was no pod to shoot. The other player borded the new ship straight away, from vigil to loki with no intermediate pod session change involved.


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