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blankseplocked Selling NeX items for isks - Really?
 
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Lester Knight Chaykin
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:36:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Lester Knight Chaykin on 08/07/2011 20:41:31

DEV Blog: << Remember, these items can and will be available for ISK as long as someone puts them up for sale there. As with the rest of EVE the market is based on supply and demand and selling clothes may become a lucrative way of making some additional ISK.>>

So i was thinking: if i buy something on NeX that is worth 1 PLEX, then i must sell it for MORE than the equivalent PLEX value in ISK.
Who would buy that? People can simply buy a plex and break it.

example:

I buy a PLEX, i break it and get AUR
I buy 1 T-Shirt worth all the AUR i got

Let's say a PLEX is 350 Mil isks
I sell T-Shirt for 400 Mil isks

Why should someone pay 400 mil isks instead of buying a plex for 350 mil isk, then break it, get aur and buy that very same shirt for a cheaper price?

Strecs Moliko
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:38:00 - [2]
 

Can't you just contract me all the assets for no cost? Cuz that would be super cool.

I'thari
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:43:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Lester Knight Chaykin
Why should someone pay 400 mil isks instead of buying a plex for 350 mil isk, then break it, get aur and buy that very same shirt?
You wouldn't belive how many idiots there are on the market... but generaly you are right. And that's the whole problem with MT - it kills economy because of set exchange rates.

Andraine
Coded Arms Corp
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:43:00 - [4]
 

people are lazy

Asruv'ynn
GeoCorp.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:53:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Asruv''ynn on 08/07/2011 20:53:26
Yeah, people are generally lazy and as I'm sure you're well aware, PLEX can fluctuate a great deal. I suppose the one negative aspect of going from PLEX to aurum is that you are always going to have left over aurum so part of the cost of PLEX is worthless unless you manage to somehow scrounge up enough aurum to completely cover the loss.

Lester Knight Chaykin
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:57:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Asruv'ynn
Edited by: Asruv''ynn on 08/07/2011 20:53:26
Yeah, people are generally lazy and as I'm sure you're well aware, PLEX can fluctuate a great deal. I suppose the one negative aspect of going from PLEX to aurum is that you are always going to have left over aurum so part of the cost of PLEX is worthless unless you manage to somehow scrounge up enough aurum to completely cover the loss.


That changes nothing really. Think about it for a moment and you'll figure why.

Barakkus
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:13:00 - [7]
 

Because some people earn stupid amounts of isk, and don't want to be bothered spending $$ for pixels.

I would buy a Nex item for isk instead of plex, if I found something worth it, like say, snowball launchers and snowballs.

Henry Haphorn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:14:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: I'thari
Originally by: Lester Knight Chaykin
Why should someone pay 400 mil isks instead of buying a plex for 350 mil isk, then break it, get aur and buy that very same shirt?
You wouldn't belive how many idiots there are on the market... but generaly you are right. And that's the whole problem with MT - it kills economy because of set exchange rates.


He's right. There are idiots out there that are too lazy to do their homework and research the market before buying/selling. Take a newbie miner for instance. The miner extracts veldspar from a roid and refines it for minerals. He right-clicks it and sells it off the bat thinking he just made a profit. WRONG!!!! Time equals money. Since time was used to extract that very mineral the miner sold, and since the miner didn't account for the time, that miner will suffer a loss over the course of the time until he/she realizes that mineral price should have been marked up to account for time mining.

The same could apply for buyers. There will be people who are in too much of a hurry (or too much money to burn) to buy low. So they will simply open the market window and buy the closest or cheapest item they could find that will be delivered immediately. Of course, they quickly ignore the savings they could have made. Day Traders avoid this by posting buy orders that are cheaper than the cheapest sell order.

The same will happen with the apparels being sold for ISK in the market.

Matalino
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:25:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Matalino on 08/07/2011 21:28:38
Originally by: Lester Knight Chaykin
Why should someone pay 400 mil isks instead of buying a plex for 350 mil isk, then break it, get aur and buy that very same shirt for a cheaper price?
Because a T-Shirt is not going to be equal to one PLEX. It will be some non-integer number of PLEX's.

As a counter-example:

Combat Goggles are 1,500 AUR

You could spend 350 mil for a PLEX, buy the goggles, and have 2,000 AUR sitting in your wallet doing nothing.
... OR ...
You could buy the goggles for 170 mil from the market, and use the remaining 180 mil for something else.

The person selling the goggles is making a 350 mil -> PLEX -> 400 mil conversion, and can do so with minial waste because he is buying several of them. You can try to turn a profit from the conversion if you minimize waste thorouh buy in bulk. However, if you buy the wrong items you will be stuck with a bunch of inventory that nobody wants.

Mycheala Zanjoahir
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:42:00 - [10]
 

The whole Plex>Aurum>Stuffz>ISK circle would actually work if there were reasonably priced items in the NeX.

If they lopped a "0" off the end of the prices, there might actually be some demand.

I could see people speculating more in the market if a set of "affordable" clothing didn't cost 350m ISK (As per the published dev blog) I know that I'm not going to break a plex to get a t-shirt, pants and some shoes. Nor will I pay 350m isk for them on the open market.

They also need to allow Aurum to be traded. If there was a vanity item that I wanted, but was a bit over one plex, right now I have the choice of cracking two plex or doing without. Right now, the answer is "Do without." If I could buy the spare Aurum on the market for a reasonable rate, I just might buy and crack that one plex and use ISK for Aurum to balance out or crack 2x plex and sell off the "spare" Aurum.

The system isn't granular enough to allow it to work the way that CCP is talking about and the new dev blog regarding the NeX doesn't fill me with hope that CCP will do anything to improve that.

Honestly, if given a choice between a Draimel or a t-shirt, which one is going to win? I know there is a market for that Draimel. A 100m ISK camo tank top? Not so much...

Barakkus
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:44:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Mycheala Zanjoahir
The whole Plex>Aurum>Stuffz>ISK circle would actually work if there were reasonably priced items in the NeX.

If they lopped a "0" off the end of the prices, there might actually be some demand.

I could see people speculating more in the market if a set of "affordable" clothing didn't cost 350m ISK (As per the published dev blog) I know that I'm not going to break a plex to get a t-shirt, pants and some shoes. Nor will I pay 350m isk for them on the open market.

They also need to allow Aurum to be traded. If there was a vanity item that I wanted, but was a bit over one plex, right now I have the choice of cracking two plex or doing without. Right now, the answer is "Do without." If I could buy the spare Aurum on the market for a reasonable rate, I just might buy and crack that one plex and use ISK for Aurum to balance out or crack 2x plex and sell off the "spare" Aurum.

The system isn't granular enough to allow it to work the way that CCP is talking about and the new dev blog regarding the NeX doesn't fill me with hope that CCP will do anything to improve that.

Honestly, if given a choice between a Draimel or a t-shirt, which one is going to win? I know there is a market for that Draimel. A 100m ISK camo tank top? Not so much...


I believe there will be cheaper stuff, CCP just has a funny way of thinking about things, they should have rolled out the garbage cheap stuff first really.

Lester Knight Chaykin
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:27:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Lester Knight Chaykin on 08/07/2011 22:27:37
Originally by: Barakkus
Because some people earn stupid amounts of isk, and don't want to be bothered spending $$ for pixels.

I would buy a Nex item for isk instead of plex, if I found something worth it, like say, snowball launchers and snowballs.


Man.... do you realize that you can buy PLEX with isks??
You don't have to pay with $$, you can basically buy stuff from NeX with ISKs (Isks buy PLEX -> break PLEX and get aurum -> buy items from NeX store).

Mycheala Zanjoahir
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:36:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Mycheala Zanjoahir
The whole Plex>Aurum>Stuffz>ISK circle would actually work if there were reasonably priced items in the NeX.

If they lopped a "0" off the end of the prices, there might actually be some demand.

I could see people speculating more in the market if a set of "affordable" clothing didn't cost 350m ISK (As per the published dev blog) I know that I'm not going to break a plex to get a t-shirt, pants and some shoes. Nor will I pay 350m isk for them on the open market.

They also need to allow Aurum to be traded. If there was a vanity item that I wanted, but was a bit over one plex, right now I have the choice of cracking two plex or doing without. Right now, the answer is "Do without." If I could buy the spare Aurum on the market for a reasonable rate, I just might buy and crack that one plex and use ISK for Aurum to balance out or crack 2x plex and sell off the "spare" Aurum.

The system isn't granular enough to allow it to work the way that CCP is talking about and the new dev blog regarding the NeX doesn't fill me with hope that CCP will do anything to improve that.

Honestly, if given a choice between a Draimel or a t-shirt, which one is going to win? I know there is a market for that Draimel. A 100m ISK camo tank top? Not so much...


I believe there will be cheaper stuff, CCP just has a funny way of thinking about things, they should have rolled out the garbage cheap stuff first really.


If you follow the DEV blog on the NeX, they reported that the "affordable" (garbage) clothing sets would be about one PLEX. So, you get a shirt, pants and shoes for 360mil ISK... Even if you toss in the outer layer you are still really damn close to 100m ISK per item of clothing on average. They really need to introduce a line of clothing that can be sold for about 10m ISK per unit. At 10m ISK per item, I'd buy and speculate with those items and create demand. At the current prices, I'll just buy a stack of Dramiels and have a fan-fricking-tastic time of it...

Daenerys Fire Targaryen
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:43:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Mycheala Zanjoahir
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Mycheala Zanjoahir
The whole Plex>Aurum>Stuffz>ISK circle would actually work if there were reasonably priced items in the NeX.

If they lopped a "0" off the end of the prices, there might actually be some demand.

I could see people speculating more in the market if a set of "affordable" clothing didn't cost 350m ISK (As per the published dev blog) I know that I'm not going to break a plex to get a t-shirt, pants and some shoes. Nor will I pay 350m isk for them on the open market.

They also need to allow Aurum to be traded. If there was a vanity item that I wanted, but was a bit over one plex, right now I have the choice of cracking two plex or doing without. Right now, the answer is "Do without." If I could buy the spare Aurum on the market for a reasonable rate, I just might buy and crack that one plex and use ISK for Aurum to balance out or crack 2x plex and sell off the "spare" Aurum.

The system isn't granular enough to allow it to work the way that CCP is talking about and the new dev blog regarding the NeX doesn't fill me with hope that CCP will do anything to improve that.

Honestly, if given a choice between a Draimel or a t-shirt, which one is going to win? I know there is a market for that Draimel. A 100m ISK camo tank top? Not so much...


I believe there will be cheaper stuff, CCP just has a funny way of thinking about things, they should have rolled out the garbage cheap stuff first really.


If you follow the DEV blog on the NeX, they reported that the "affordable" (garbage) clothing sets would be about one PLEX. So, you get a shirt, pants and shoes for 360mil ISK... Even if you toss in the outer layer you are still really damn close to 100m ISK per item of clothing on average. They really need to introduce a line of clothing that can be sold for about 10m ISK per unit. At 10m ISK per item, I'd buy and speculate with those items and create demand. At the current prices, I'll just buy a stack of Dramiels and have a fan-fricking-tastic time of it...


I'm with you.

Disturbed Pilot
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:48:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Barakkus
Because some people earn stupid amounts of isk, and don't want to be bothered spending $$ for pixels.

I would buy a Nex item for isk instead of plex, if I found something worth it, like say, snowball launchers and snowballs.


i like your snowball analogy, unfortunately your logic doesn't resemble the solution. People dont need $$$ to buy plex, they use isk to buy a plex.

Ubi Dellmar
Gallente
Buzzkill.
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:52:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Daenerys Fire Targaryen
Originally by: Mycheala Zanjoahir
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Mycheala Zanjoahir
The whole Plex>Aurum>Stuffz>ISK circle would actually work if there were reasonably priced items in the NeX.

If they lopped a "0" off the end of the prices, there might actually be some demand.

I could see people speculating more in the market if a set of "affordable" clothing didn't cost 350m ISK (As per the published dev blog) I know that I'm not going to break a plex to get a t-shirt, pants and some shoes. Nor will I pay 350m isk for them on the open market.

They also need to allow Aurum to be traded. If there was a vanity item that I wanted, but was a bit over one plex, right now I have the choice of cracking two plex or doing without. Right now, the answer is "Do without." If I could buy the spare Aurum on the market for a reasonable rate, I just might buy and crack that one plex and use ISK for Aurum to balance out or crack 2x plex and sell off the "spare" Aurum.

The system isn't granular enough to allow it to work the way that CCP is talking about and the new dev blog regarding the NeX doesn't fill me with hope that CCP will do anything to improve that.

Honestly, if given a choice between a Draimel or a t-shirt, which one is going to win? I know there is a market for that Draimel. A 100m ISK camo tank top? Not so much...


I believe there will be cheaper stuff, CCP just has a funny way of thinking about things, they should have rolled out the garbage cheap stuff first really.


If you follow the DEV blog on the NeX, they reported that the "affordable" (garbage) clothing sets would be about one PLEX. So, you get a shirt, pants and shoes for 360mil ISK... Even if you toss in the outer layer you are still really damn close to 100m ISK per item of clothing on average. They really need to introduce a line of clothing that can be sold for about 10m ISK per unit. At 10m ISK per item, I'd buy and speculate with those items and create demand. At the current prices, I'll just buy a stack of Dramiels and have a fan-fricking-tastic time of it...


I'm with you.


Even better idea! Add an option to the Salvager module. That way I can salvage a Draimel wreck and get t-shirt that does 6km/s and 150DPS!

That way I can go to Jita 4-4, dockup, go WIS, blow a hole in the bulkhead with my l337 Angel Cartel thredz then splash myself all over the entrance to the bar. (t-shirt can't tank the impact)

EPIC

WIN

CLOTHING!

Cool

Cataca
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:54:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Barakkus
Because some people earn stupid amounts of isk, and don't want to be bothered spending $$ for pixels.

I would buy a Nex item for isk instead of plex, if I found something worth it, like say, snowball launchers and snowballs.


Money is money, no mater if you paint it blue.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:01:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Lester Knight Chaykin

So i was thinking: if i buy something on NeX that is worth 1 PLEX, then i must sell it for MORE than the equivalent PLEX value in ISK.
Who would buy that? People can simply buy a plex and break it.



I guess you did overlook the fact that most items in the NeX store cannot be broken down to full multiples of a PLEX.

Lets say I want a pair of the 'Excursion' womens pants, they go for 3900 AUR. I'll have to break two PLEX, and will be left with 3100 AUR after purchase.

Now if I just want that one item, assuming I pay 350mill for PLEX, I'd be down 700mill. There is your reason to guy it from the market for 400mill.


But hold on, I know exactly what you want to say now. Just buy some more stuff! Lets assume I dont have the 'Sterling' dress blouse yet, that one fits pretty good with my leftover AUR. Only 200 AUR left in my wallet, cant buy anything for that.

Assuming 350mill/PLEX, that 200 AUR is around 20mill ISK. Now that might not seem much, but if I could buy both items for a combined markup of say 15mill ISK from market, I would. Still saves me money compared to the PLEX trade. And that is only that specific combination of items, there are better markup options for buyers that want other stuff.


Just to give a better example, I personally think the 'Nightstalker' goggles will be a pretty hot item. They have a convenient price of 1500 AUR, meaning I can break 3 PLEX and buy 7 goggles with no leftover AUR. Good option to buy bulk, and put them on market for those people that dont exactly have 7 characters they want the goggles for.

Hope that helps to get some ideas.


Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:04:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Henry Haphorn
Originally by: I'thari
Originally by: Lester Knight Chaykin
Why should someone pay 400 mil isks instead of buying a plex for 350 mil isk, then break it, get aur and buy that very same shirt?
You wouldn't belive how many idiots there are on the market... but generaly you are right. And that's the whole problem with MT - it kills economy because of set exchange rates.


He's right. There are idiots out there that are too lazy to do their homework and research the market before buying/selling. Take a newbie miner for instance. The miner extracts veldspar from a roid and refines it for minerals. He right-clicks it and sells it off the bat thinking he just made a profit. WRONG!!!! Time equals money. Since time was used to extract that very mineral the miner sold, and since the miner didn't account for the time, that miner will suffer a loss over the course of the time until he/she realizes that mineral price should have been marked up to account for time mining.

The same could apply for buyers. There will be people who are in too much of a hurry (or too much money to burn) to buy low. So they will simply open the market window and buy the closest or cheapest item they could find that will be delivered immediately. Of course, they quickly ignore the savings they could have made. Day Traders avoid this by posting buy orders that are cheaper than the cheapest sell order.

The same will happen with the apparels being sold for ISK in the market.


FAILGASM

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:14:00 - [20]
 

There is absolutely no reason to purchase NeX with ISK. None. There's no point in selling NeX items for ISK because of it. Well, no more reason than there is to pay the price for a Navy Raven that turns out to be a Raven.

I bet their high dollar learned economist was patting himself on the back when he came up with that idea while some lowly seen but never heard programmer was like "Wait...what?!?"

Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:48:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
There is absolutely no reason to purchase NeX with ISK. None. There's no point in selling NeX items for ISK because of it. Well, no more reason than there is to pay the price for a Navy Raven that turns out to be a Raven.

I bet their high dollar learned economist was patting himself on the back when he came up with that idea while some lowly seen but never heard programmer was like "Wait...what?!?"

I suggest you read the posts by Matalino and Omara Otawan.

Kumq uat
Posted - 2011.07.09 00:09:00 - [22]
 

Time to start selling ocular Implants as monocles for 500 mil isk each! QUICK, TO THE JITA MOBILE!

DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2011.07.09 00:17:00 - [23]
 

The thing is, some stuff cost less than one plex, some stuff cost say, 1.2 plex..
So you would need to pay the full price for the plex, and only recover 60% of what you spent..

3500 aur = 30d code = 35$
so 1$ = 100 aur

It's hard to know what people will have left, but lets assume that players buy a full set of womens clothes and mens clothes, both with and without the eyepeice.
Womens clothes = 13,600 AUR = 4*30d code with 400 aur remaining
Mens clothes = 7,600 AUR = 3*30d code with 2,900 aur remaining
Women+Ocular = 25.6 AUR = 8*30d code with 2,400 aur remaining
Men+Ocular = 19.6 AUR = 6*30d code with 1,400 aur remaining.

Lets remove the spare AUR when possible..
womens clothes+whatever = 400 aur remaining
mens clothes+whatever = 500 aur remaining
womens clothes+ocular+whatever = 0 aur remaining
mens clothes+ocular+whatever = 400 aur remaining

Assuming things are purchased equally (and that the market can take that many boots) then each user would have an avearge amount of aur left.. around 325 aur.

Only God and CCP knows what people are buying, there's 350k users... if uptake is 1% that's 3.5k users..
3,500 users * 325 aur remaining = 11,375,000 AUR.
We know that 100 aur is worth 1$, so ccp has just locked out 1.375$ million from being cashed out.
If those people wanted to cash out their AUR, then they are forced to convert more 30d codes...

Perhaps ccp will allow AUR trading. If they do then what I mention above is partially nullified.
Mayb they'll add in AUR trading once one of their other 2 games launch and start feeding the hoppers.

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.09 02:00:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan

Just to give a better example, I personally think the 'Nightstalker' goggles will be a pretty hot item.



So what'dya think? Are mine a hot item?

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.07.09 02:06:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Omara Otawan

Just to give a better example, I personally think the 'Nightstalker' goggles will be a pretty hot item.



So what'dya think? Are mine a hot item?


They go well with the bald head, yea.

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.07.09 02:50:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Vice Admiral Spreadsheet

I suggest you read the posts by Matalino and Omara Otawan.


I did. The fact remains that if people are going to purchase NeX items then obviously they're going to want more than a goggle. They're going to want to accessorize. Having left over Aur isn't going to be as much as an issue as these guys are thinking.

On the other hand, I could be completely wrong. However, if I were going to accessorize my character with NeX items I think I'd just buy the plex, convert to Aur and not bother with the mark up. It's already expensive enough.

I wish those guys success.

Matalino
Posted - 2011.07.09 05:04:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Matalino on 09/07/2011 05:06:25
Originally by: Mr Kidd
I did. The fact remains that if people are going to purchase NeX items then obviously they're going to want more than a goggle. They're going to want to accessorize. Having left over Aur isn't going to be as much as an issue as these guys are thinking.

On the other hand, I could be completely wrong. However, if I were going to accessorize my character with NeX items I think I'd just buy the plex, convert to Aur and not bother with the mark up. It's already expensive enough.

I wish those guys success.
This is where the whole part about getting stuck with inventory that nobody wants comes in. While it maybe possible to turn a profit using the ISK->PLEX->AUR cycle, I do not expect that will hold true once the market reaches equalibrium.

When a new item is introduced, there is likely to be some demand for it at a slight markup for the reason I illistrated earlier. However, once the market is saturated, the supply of those items will exceed demand for them. At which point those items will have a market price far below the cost of the AUR used to purchase them.

They are vanity items, and vanity comes at a price. Just like with real world clothing, if you want a discount, wait for the items to go out of season. Given the speed with which the market saturated last time CCP added a ship to the game, I expect that it will not take long for the clothing market to saturate, especially so given the lack of effort required.

Lester Knight Chaykin
Posted - 2011.07.09 05:52:00 - [28]
 

Thanks for the good replies, i see it from a better angle now.

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.07.09 09:35:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Matalino
Given the speed with which the market saturated last time CCP added a ship to the game, I expect that it will not take long for the clothing market to saturate, especially so given the lack of effort required.
This.
Ships are even vulnerable. Worn vanity items aren't, so there won't be any repeat business except for JCs.

The extreme cases will buy all the most expensive gear for each slot (status symbol, right?), which would require any new stuff to be even more expensive than what already exists in order to be "special". I can't see that going down well.

IMO they've shot the long term viability of the store in the foot with the prices and invulnerability.


 

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