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Nye Jaran
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:51:00 - [151]

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.

Seriously, you're introducing ****ing tailoring to eve? What is this, WoW?

I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:53:00 - [152]

Can you people who are pushing forward with these prices actually look in a mirror and keep a straight face? Seriously though, can you? I don't really how the CSM were understanding of this. How many monocles did you pay them? I hate to see the prices on the "deluxe" items.

Posted - 2011.07.08 12:55:00 - [153]

Originally by: Zagdul

This may be a stretch and I'm gonna get called every fanboy name in the book for this... but maybe CCP was looking out for the player's best interest all along?

Originally by: K'iran
You expect us to pay 60 euro for some pixels, that don't do anything and will mostly look like CRAP in the current iteration of Incarna?

Are you ******ed?
No, they don't expect sh!t out of you.

You can chose to buy them or not.

They don't force you to, nor expect you to.

Honestly, it would be a good idea to not simply advocate, but to first research and then analyse before engaging in a discussion. I'm not calling you a fanboy, truth be told all of us who subscribe and continue to subscribe are fanboys. Because we love it, simple as that. Sure once upon a time long ago a lot of us were evangelists, which is something else, and which is something direly missing.

But that is a different debate really.

The simple thing is that this is not about money for EVE. It is by admission a learning curve, an experimental approach for future targets and objectives for EVE, and for other products. In part because one of those products is tied with EVE, in part because - as Hilmar indicated - CCP does not want to be left behind, so rather than innovate they replicate industry trends. That is understandable, but in the absence of clear definitions and in the presence of clear statements on continuity of these paths you should be able to understand that it can and does upset people.

It's the difference between the presentation, and the actual delivery. Piled up over time. Offset by statements from CCP such as "premium experience" which simply does not match the realities of many people's experiences. Does that mean they will quit, no, because there is no substitute and they love the dream of EVE because that is what they bought and share.

CCP is a business. Their interest is themselves. Nothing else. CCP employees, is a different thing than that. That has become clear very much so. And that is a good thing, both parts of it.

PLEX and AURUM are instruments of business intelligence for CCP for the product of EVE. That is nice, and good, as long as the foundations for approach and execution are validated not from a just statistical perspective, but more importantly from a behavioral perspective. And that is where a lot of people place questionmarks, in light of public statements and QEN's which neither take into account the behavioral perspective nor otherwise correct for it.

It's basically come to a point - something which I find incredibly unfortunate - that there is an incredibly strong trend among communities to simply not take CCP's word anymore, in any way or form. In immersive products you've got a few basic currencies as a business, two of which are belief and trust. That those have been compromised, I can understand, but I also find it sad.

CCP has engaged on a path of creating trends, rather than that historic and well rewarding path of enabling trends. The difference may seem subtle at first glance, but is quite significant in terms of internal debt risks, glitches in expectation management, segregation between user vs user group types, and so forth. More importantly, it locks CCP into a course which requires further and more resources. Progressive path.

Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:55:00 - [154]

Originally by: Nerodon
Originally by: DeBingJos
These vanity items are indestructible. Doesn't this mean that their price in isk will fall in the future?

People that do not want them anymore will sell them.
They are indestructible, this means supply will keep rising thus prices will start falling

First very slowly, but faster and faster the more items hit the isk-market.

Conclusion: It's a bad investment because the prices can only go down in the future.

Well, that means that their price in ISK will become more affordable! I hardly see that as a bad thing! Also there will be exclusive and limited edition stuff as written in the blog, these items will always be rare, therefore will rise in price significantly!

Also, the low-tier items will cost about a Plex or less PER OUTFIT! That means everything! Pants,Shirt,Shoes, that's 100Mil per item or 7.5$, that's actually not bad at all! WoW sells vanity pets and mounts for 20$ each, if I can get a full outfit for 20$ then I think it's fair.

Mid-tier and Ridiculous-tier are mostly aimed for ISK rich people, you don't have to pay with PLEX if you don't want to! That makes its price MEANINGLESS.

That is exactly what I'm saying. It also means that if you are smart you don't buy that stuff now, you buy it when the prices are dropping (In a few months).

Let's be honest, the incarna part of EVE is single-player at least untill december. The only thing you can do with the clothes is admire them yourself or show them in the tiny portrait in the ingame chatwindows.

Be smart, wait.

Posted - 2011.07.08 12:55:00 - [155]

this is a Complete rip off of eve member's and. the difference is in second life i can make mt informs and decide what i want it to look like ,not have to buy a off the shelf product that 20,000 other people will have so in no way is this unique and 3 plex-S for A OUT FIT I DONT THINK SO THAT MEAN I AM BUYING AN OUT FIT THE 20,000 OTHER PEOPLE HAVE SO IT WOULD BE LIKE GOING TO A WALMART AND BUYING THE SAME BLUE SHIRT THAT EVERYONE ALSE HAS FOR 60 DOLLERS YOUR JOKING

J Kunjeh
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:58:00 - [156]

Gotta say, I'm really liking the new goggles (not a bad price either) and I love the new male commando pants (though I think they're a bit too "skinny jeans" for my characters fit). But the pricing on the pants is still a bit premium...but I do have 3,500 AUR burning a hole in my wallet...

Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:58:00 - [157]

I think your price per item is too high, but I assume your new found advisers think player will pay so there it little point in arguing with CCP otherwise.

No doubt you are already planning on creating 'fear of loss' sales (available for a limited time only! Once they're gone they're gone!) and so on and so forth.

What, however, I think you will learn are the wrong metrics from EVE that wont translate to your other titles. Players who want to play with "Blood Dolls" will love this sh*t. Your EVE base, er...not so much.


Posted - 2011.07.08 12:59:00 - [158]

No matter how many times you trot out the "you can buy them for isk" line, it doesn't change the fact that a PLEX has a par value of $15. I'm not willing to spend more than a couple of bucks an item, especially as long as the items are this ugly. Show me prices in the AUR 250-500 range and I'll think about it.

Madner Kami
Durendal Ascending
Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:01:00 - [159]

Edited by: Madner Kami on 08/07/2011 13:12:00
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.

I've said it last year already, I said it a few days ago and I'll say it now again: Bull****. You can not allow players to create their own stuffs, which could end up looking exactly like what you want to sell in your NeX-Lalaland, because you need a monopoly, so that people actually buy your stuff for real $ instead of 100% similar player-made stuff for fantasy ISK-only. This is also, why you're having such a hard time about finding a solution on how to implement player-made stuff, because you desperatly need to incorporate static Aurum-costs into the player-made stuff, to make sure they can not capitalize in ISK-only, what you want in your wallet in RL-$.
And don't even think for one split second, that I believe you, if you take a step forth and try to tell me, that you do not care about that. You invested manhours into the creation of those fashion-mumbo-jumbos and want your investments back, ideally plus interest fee. That's the whole point of micro-/macrotransactions! But go ahead, belie yourself or belie your customers. I don't know which of the two cases is the truth or even both, but either variant is equally bad. You lost.

The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:02:00 - [160]

Edited by: Shadowsword on 08/07/2011 13:06:47
Edited by: Shadowsword on 08/07/2011 13:06:30
Player-made outfits Soon(tm)?

Given a few reccurent themes/memes of some 0.0 entities, past and present, I can see a wave of leather and latex stuff coming. Lots of T-shirts with funny messages, too.

If it's not already the case, you might want to think about where to put the line exactly where censure is concerned.

Dogo Duma
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:03:00 - [161]

Glitch is a new farmville esque mmo by one of the founders of flickr. It has ACTUAL micro transactions and several tiers of opt-in subscriptions that provide access to exclusive design elements (clothes as well as facial features) and escalating monthly bonuses.

Dress-up items start at 25 credits up to 80 so far. You can wear up to 6 items at a time. Credits are 40 for $3 to 500 for $25. The highest tier subscription is $89 a year and provides 400 credits a month and 50 teleportation tokens (it's still beta so the exact utility of these tokens is unclear as the balance is ****ed up). All of the alpha testers got 400 credits free.

Glitch has executed microtransactions perfectly. They get people addicted to a variety of clothes, each item is pretty cheap, they are constantly releasing new items, and total outfits can be kind of expensive ($24 for a full set of the most expensive items). Plus subscribers get substantial benefits but are still pulled into paying more through MT.

But Stuart Butterfield is the idiot and CCP are fearless innovators

I just don't understand them.

Players are telling CCP the exact best way to manipulate us into paying them more money. Instead of taking our advice, CCP Super Genius Vikings are going in a completely Fearless direction that we are all telling them is going to fail horribly. Because they saw a presentation on MT claiming that the key thing is to ignore your players.

From another forum. Bit harsh, in some ways, but it doesn't take a genius to see why there are serious questions on the table.

Incapsulated Reality
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:03:00 - [162]

Edited by: Nerodon on 08/07/2011 13:05:54
If you consider 3 Plex expensive, to a vet in ISK, it's nothing! Nothing at ALL! That's why with 1 PLEX you can get a full low-end outfit (About 7.5$ per item) If you don't want to pay, get a full outfit for 350Mil, that's also pretty cheap, even for starters at the game.

View the deluxe-tiers as some sort of endgame objective to justify your quest to be rich in Eve... If you're like me and don't give a flying F about flying a titan, getting a full outfit of deluxe bling is a far cheaper alternative!

Keep in mind that you're not buying any of these items directly for real money. You buy them with PLEX, and you can get PLEX in more than one way.

Oh and, it's optional and vanity only! So stop your complaining!

Chu Pamela
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:04:00 - [163]

cloches are not the way how make us buy more plexes... think again what are you doing ccp. i will not expend 1 euro for to play barbies here.Wink

Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:06:00 - [164]

And this is what CSM saw and liked!? Okay, I am not much for Incarna or vanity stuff. My plan was to ignore it until there was something I liked, perhaps poker, but I truly don't understand your plan, CCP.


That is what you at CCP preach about. How Incarna will help with immersion. This is not it. First of all, to force capsuleers to unpod each time they dock to drop off loot or get ammo - that is not immersion. That is stupid. Secondly, one cheap set of clothes will Cost 1 PLEX (350-400 mil ISK). Seriously? That is not immersion, that is stupid. You are so blinded by what you want (money) that you can't see the obvious.

WiS used to be this great vision. A new Eve-environment with new professions. The potential was staggering. Now look at what it became. No new professions, no new market, cheap pants that could feed a family in the Eve universe for a lifetime. No matter how much you want to seamless-us-into-Incarna, it will make Incarna Eve-Online. Sure, it is the same game-world but it is not Eve-Online. Eve-Online is a sandbox with an economy driven and controlled by players.

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel

Remember, these items can and will be available for ISK as long as someone puts them up for sale there. As with the rest of EVE the market is based on supply and demand and selling clothes may become a lucrative way of making some additional ISK.

Translation: Supply is endless because items are created from thin air. We hope we get more newbs with Incarna since they can identify with a character. They do not need to feel left out just because they don't have 400 mil ISK to buy a PLEX, the pants they want might be on the market for 150 mil ISK, just a 50% increase in price. If that doesn't work then they just can whip out that credit card and buy some PLEX.

Just imagine how much better Incarna would be if the NEX sold blueprints instead of indestructible items. We would get supply and demand as well as a cut throat market. The future promises of Incarna would be fantastic. Instead we got a new Incarna with unpodding and the NEX that kills immersion, we get a NPC market that will dominate WiS (I doubt players will be able to sell anything that wasn't bought with AUR).

CCP, was this the vision you had when you started this so many years ago?

Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:07:00 - [165]

Originally by: Chu Pamela
I will not expend 1 euro for to play barbies here.Wink

Yet your toon uses a lot of makeup WinkWinkWink

Posted - 2011.07.08 13:07:00 - [166]

So... when are the art guys going to start working on something that actually matters? iirc, there are a couple hundred ships that need to be redesigned in order to actually move the game forward. Thanks, we've had the dev blog that people asked for. Now can this "feature" be abandoned please? Drop it like it's FW!

Bite me inc.
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:08:00 - [167]

Dear CCP Zinfandel, I think that monocle you wear is obscuring your view of reality.

Lotus Starshine
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:09:00 - [168]

Thank God I fly naked.

Seriously, I'm gay and won't even pay these prices. Hell, I've gotten clothes at Barney's for cheaper than this.

Crusandra G'Had
World Eaters Excavation
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:10:00 - [169]

Ever think about coloring/tinting the default items and selling them really cheap (i.e. 200-300 Aurum)?

I remember that manpower was cited as the reason for high prices in the initial monocle blog. How much work would tinting require?

Parental Control
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:13:00 - [170]

Talk about real unapologetic bs's sheesh...

Incapsulated Reality
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:14:00 - [171]

Originally by: Ra Vhim
Translation: Supply is endless because items are created from thin air.

Supply is as endless as there are people willing to pay for them.
That doesn't make it infinite.

If 500 items are in the game, then its rarity (In the ISK market) is that of 500 available items. Yes it's unlimited in the Nex store, but those can't be acquired without AUR. So that means they are in fact shielded somewhat from the ISK market. If the market item pool moves to 1000 items, then yes, the price is potentially going down as it gets more common. That item will lose its value, and be MUCH more affordable in ISK rather than AUR so people will stop generating them. So they will reach a cap where their number will stop increasing, as people buy them off market, the pool may decrease and demand might increase, it's price goes up and then people tend to buy more from NeX, it's a good cycle actually, and it's not as broken as people may think.

Focused Annihilation
Detrimental Imperative
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:15:00 - [172]

Should loose it if you get podded like anything else in game.

Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:17:00 - [173]

Originally by: Boonaki
Should loose it if you get podded like anything else in game.

^^ THIS X 1000

Cage Shadownsun
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:18:00 - [174]

Is "Eyewear" really the appropriate term? Isn't it technically eyereplacement? Eye socketry? Eye Dear-god-you-didn't-tell-me-you-were-actually-REMOVING-my-eye-for-this!-ry?

Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:19:00 - [175]

Originally by: Boonaki

Should loose it if you get podded like anything else in game.

Lower the prices, destroy the items when you get podded and you have already a much better business running!

Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:20:00 - [176]

Edited by: Morphisat on 08/07/2011 13:24:34
Shame those resources weren't used for the space game...

BTW at these ridiculous prices you're only gonna sell a few items to a bunch of ******s. Funniest thing is, that only the buyer can see your expensive 4 plex suit, so there is no point at all to buy this crap.

Posted - 2011.07.08 13:20:00 - [177]

With all my complaining about CCP these days, the most tasteless part about this in-game is rubbing our faces in it. I DO NOT want to see my eternal lack of space gold on my mouse hover-over on the wallet. I DO NOT want to see my eternal lack of space gold on the main wallet page distracting from what really matters (isk.) I will never ever EVER get space gold, and any freebie space gold is going onto a throwaway alt and biomassed. Tasteless implementation = 100% resistance.

Deja Thoris
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:20:00 - [178]

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
I've got one pair of "cute high heels" coming in the next month.

The suits and tuxedos and such are being developed as part of our "corporate collection" which is months from now. We are in the "military collection" now. Also coming up is our "cyberpunk collection."

I've seen some amazing sketches from our fashion designer for the cyberpunk collection. I may have to create a female character one of these days.

Wow, you really are batshi t insane aren't you?

Barbie in space at the price of only ONE measly plex? Please do the community a favour and resign, and take your crap fashionista ideas with you. If you can't do that then at least spend your time marketing your fixes for all the bugs and features you orphaned.

You know, I read the interview where the senior producer said that community reponse can drag you down and be quite hard. With rubbish like this you deserve every negative vibe you get. You aren't just retar ds, you are stubborn retar ds.

Check Herar
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:20:00 - [179]

I want new spaceships...srsly...and dont sth like that noctis stuff i want NEW spaceships...I dont care about that crap outfit stuff i want god damm new spaceships or something at least remotely affiliated with new guns or new weapon systems or whatever...PLEASE.

Glaso Fruixette
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:22:00 - [180]

And there i thought the launch NEX store had all the price tiers, ranging from "What the fcuck" to "Are you fcucking kidding me?"

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