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Mitchello
B O R G
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:09:00 - [121]
 

I still wonder if this devblog was ran by the CSM.

Morgan Polaris
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:11:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Miss FYVM
In my view, this shows me that when CCP looked at the idea of micro-transactions, they saw the term as meaning a small number of transactions, rather than a transaction costing a small amount.


Just like ship spinning, right? It all makes sense now.

No it doesn't.

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:12:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: DeBingJos
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Zagdul


Excuse?

lol, you're not getting it.




Drr, apparently you missed the part about how AUR shouldn't be tied with PLEX at all. For someone who complains about people not reading whole messages, you sure seem to suffer from that problem yourself.


Wasn't the whole idea behind AUR to create a PLEX-sink? The more PLEX get converted to AUR the better as this was the purpose of AUR from the start.
This.

Atai Pekoe
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:15:00 - [124]
 

Question: Are there more "free" items planned? I guess a lot of players would like to have more possebilitys to customize their characters. And like it have been said before... a bigger Character Creator would be great for new players! :-)

Jada Maroo
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:15:00 - [125]
 

Edited by: Jada Maroo on 08/07/2011 12:15:45
Originally by: Zagdul


OK, there's a second issue with PLEX.

There's a LOT out there and the super (ISK Rich) in EVE are hording them and playing market games.

There also needs to be a PLEX sink outside of cashing them in for game time and was something that was brought up a while back in one of the reports.


Fair enough, but you don't tie that into a transaction store like NEX which ought to be a mass market money maker for CCP. It doesn't sound like they're accomplishing their goal, and they're ruining a potential new source of revenue in the process.

If the problem is the super wealthy hoarding PLEXes, then target the aspects of Eve that require that amount of wealth. Require sov bills be paid in PLEX (maybe rename PLEX in the process), or something along those lines.

But skirts for PLEX? That just won't even solve the problem.

Darth Vapour
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:17:00 - [126]
 

Edited by: Darth Vapour on 08/07/2011 12:22:47
This explains why the new character editor makes such bland, nondescript characters compared to the old one. To be different visually you will now have to pay. A lot.

Looking forward to seeing standard pre-Incarna character items like the Gallente head ornament being sold for several plexes.

Intermittent Fault
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:17:00 - [127]
 

I'm reminded of a story -
Man to Woman: Would you sleep with a man for a million pounds?
Woman: It depends on the man.
Man: Would you sleep with me for 10 pounds?
Woman: What do you take me for?
Man: We've already established that, we're just fixing the price.

If the only thing that bothers you about the Noble Exchange is the pricing, you've already lost the moral argument, so stop pretending you're something you're not.

Trinity Killys
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:20:00 - [128]
 

Dear CCP. Everyone is telling you that what you're doing is wrong. This isn't a case where there is a vocal minority of nay-sayers but the majority is supporting you. This is the whole player base calling you on your ****.

Set this mess straight. You're loosing the respect of your players.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:21:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: DeBingJos
Wasn't the whole idea behind AUR to create a PLEX-sink? The more PLEX get converted to AUR the better as this was the purpose of AUR from the start.
Yes, but that's also the problem: they can't create an effective PLEX sink because that would screw up a market that they need to protect. They need a PLEX bleed more than a PLEX sink.

…and yes, the NeX serves that purpose: by making the prices this high, the speed of the transactions will be low and the market won't go nuts. But on the other hand, this kind of pricing will make the real-life prices seem utterly bonkers.

So we have a huge expectations gap: players were expecting a customization store, at normal customization prices; CCP wanted a PLEX sink that didn't sink too many PLEXes at once. These two purposes are inherently incompatible.

Shova Kais
Caldari
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:22:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: Shova Kais on 08/07/2011 12:22:17
Originally by: Trinity Killys
Dear CCP. Everyone is telling you that what you're doing is wrong. This isn't a case where there is a vocal minority of nay-sayers but the majority is supporting you. This is the whole player base calling you on your ****.

Set this mess straight. You're loosing the respect of your players.



Speak for yourself. *Lose btw.

Kern Hotha
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:23:00 - [131]
 

All this time, effort, and money spent on avatars and clothing is depressing. Please focus on spaceships.

Murashu
Liberal Frontier Enterprises
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:24:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Miss FYVM

"Mid-tier outfits will be priced such that an outfit will total approximately 3-4 PLEX" Wow. Really? That's ******* ridiculous.

In my view, this shows me that when CCP looked at the idea of micro-transactions, they saw the term as meaning a small number of transactions, rather than a transaction costing a small amount. Well done CCP.


Is $20-30 now a great deal of money? Millions of people have no issue spending $5 or more for a pack of cigarettes everyday or thousands of dollars for a computer system just to run EVE at max settings, but $20 for an optional vanity item is suddenly a huge deal?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:25:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 08/07/2011 12:26:59
Originally by: Murashu
Is $20-30 now a great deal of money?
It is compared to the cost of similar items in games where walking around and showing off your clothes is actually a large part of the game…

It also goes completely against the basic psychology of microtransactions: people who are willing — indeed, eager — to buy 20 different $1 items would never in a million years spend money on a $15 item.

Miss FYVM
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:26:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Murashu
Originally by: Miss FYVM

"Mid-tier outfits will be priced such that an outfit will total approximately 3-4 PLEX" Wow. Really? That's ******* ridiculous.

In my view, this shows me that when CCP looked at the idea of micro-transactions, they saw the term as meaning a small number of transactions, rather than a transaction costing a small amount. Well done CCP.


Is $20-30 now a great deal of money? Millions of people have no issue spending $5 or more for a pack of cigarettes everyday or thousands of dollars for a computer system just to run EVE at max settings, but $20 for an optional vanity item is suddenly a huge deal?


When you only pay $15 for the game? Come on. I want what you're smoking.

Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
Moar Tears
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:26:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Kern Hotha
All this time, effort, and money spent on avatars and clothing is depressing. Please focus on spaceships.

It's called labor specialization. Fashion designers are pretty lousy at fixing memory leaks and UI issues. Stop your whining.



I am curious about Zinfandel's comment about indestructible goods.

Are these goods indeed indestructible, or are all Noble items you are wearing when you are podded destroyed? I am hearing conflicting reports. What is CCP's intention for this mechanic?

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:27:00 - [136]
 


The basic idea you have is good, but your low tier pricing is just stupid. It's the low end, think 99 cents/item, tier where the bulk of the money in MT is. That would also cater better to the all important new player demographic who you've now effectively priced out and you have ensured that the feature won't give much enjoyment for the playerbase in general. The current pricing will just force most people to ignore the system, it will generate less income for you than it could, it will provide very little enjoyment for the players and generate needless hate and dissatisfaction towards your entire MT plan. It is bad for you, the game and the players when compared to a system that has that low pricing tier with a good selection of items.


Bethor Invictus
New Eden Recon Force
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:27:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Murashu
Originally by: Miss FYVM

"Mid-tier outfits will be priced such that an outfit will total approximately 3-4 PLEX" Wow. Really? That's ******* ridiculous.

In my view, this shows me that when CCP looked at the idea of micro-transactions, they saw the term as meaning a small number of transactions, rather than a transaction costing a small amount. Well done CCP.


If you compare it to the competition (other MMO's doing micro transactions NEXT TO already payed subscription, or even next to a F2P game) yes it is a huge amount. Also there is nothing micro about 50 euros. Unless they plan on sending me the RL version of those same pants that is.

Is $20-30 now a great deal of money? Millions of people have no issue spending $5 or more for a pack of cigarettes everyday or thousands of dollars for a computer system just to run EVE at max settings, but $20 for an optional vanity item is suddenly a huge deal?

Dan Brimstone
Order of Dendera
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:29:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: Iam Widdershins

I am curious about Zinfandel's comment about indestructible goods.

Are these goods indeed indestructible, or are all Noble items you are wearing when you are podded destroyed? I am hearing conflicting reports. What is CCP's intention for this mechanic?


I think he said they where only indestructible if you where wearing them. Obviously if they are in your cargo and you get blown up, chances are they will too, or drop for the guy who blew you up.

On a different note, all this complaining about the pricing of vanity items...... really? If you don't like the price just don't buy the stuff. I know I don't plan on wasting my money.

Mitchello
B O R G
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:30:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Murashu
Originally by: Miss FYVM

"Mid-tier outfits will be priced such that an outfit will total approximately 3-4 PLEX" Wow. Really? That's ******* ridiculous.

In my view, this shows me that when CCP looked at the idea of micro-transactions, they saw the term as meaning a small number of transactions, rather than a transaction costing a small amount. Well done CCP.


Is $20-30 now a great deal of money? Millions of people have no issue spending $5 or more for a pack of cigarettes everyday or thousands of dollars for a computer system just to run EVE at max settings, but $20 for an optional vanity item is suddenly a huge deal?


Depends on how you look at it really. If it is on top of a subscription where a sizeable part of the populace pays multiple accounts every month, then slamming 20 to 80 bucks on to that can easily be "too much". Obviously nobody can ever look or speak for anyone else's wallet, but the sentiment is not hard to understand - especially since EVE as a game is far from the premium experience that it is presented to be, in quite a few sizeable niches of the game. That contrast between perspectives, is also a factor.

I'm not concerned with the prices tbh. For me it's just a repeat of past events, where CCP locked itself in a position where eventually they had to focus a lot more on allocating resources to something, which did cost gameplay and quality of gameplay in many other aspects. Prioritisation of resource allocation, pretty much.

Aside of that, the philosophy of experimentation, to learn as they go, with an initial opening of virtual clothes ... it unsettles me a bit that when you look up research done in this field that is the default step preceding microtransactions for convenience items. And there, I just hope we don't get another conflict like the previous one (considering statements like buying faction standings and such for AUR).

Progressive path. Can be a good thing, but with clearly defined limits and boundaries. Without those, it's just a self fulfilling prophecy in this industry (and tbh, in most others as well).

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:32:00 - [140]
 

These vanity items are indestructible. Doesn't this mean that their price in isk will fall in the future?

People that do not want them anymore will sell them.
They are indestructible, this means supply will keep rising thus prices will start falling

First very slowly, but faster and faster the more items hit the isk-market.

Conclusion: It's a bad investment because the prices can only go down in the future.

Jonathan Malcom
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:34:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.


This makes me feel a whole lot better about the whole ordeal. That was always my biggest issue with the NeX store. +1 for right-thinking. Now make it so.

Mitchello
B O R G
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:39:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Malcom
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.


This makes me feel a whole lot better about the whole ordeal. That was always my biggest issue with the NeX store. +1 for right-thinking. Now make it so.


Considering limited resources, drastic change of course in that regard (but one I too agree with, but I still remember the vicious statements at GDC on how that approach was evil) and two upcoming products as well as drastic handling of EVE itself required plus having to complete the Incarna path .... I have little hope for that anywhere near in the next 18 months (no pun intended).

K'iran
Spirit of EVE
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:39:00 - [143]
 

You expect us to pay 60 euro for some pixels, that don't do anything and will mostly look like CRAP in the current iteration of Incarna?

Are you ******ed?

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:39:00 - [144]
 

As long as at least 40-50% of the items are in the lower tier, I don't really care about the prices.

In other games or forums where free donations are encouraged, those who give money often receive some honor mark, in one form or another. It can be a different color for the name, a title, whatever. And I never saw anyone going up in flames over it. I consider the NeX as something very similar. And if there's an item that cost, say, 150 USD, then it's like a different title to mark someone who made a big donation over someone else who made a smaller one.

Tought I suggest that Chribba, for his numerous (and often costing him money) services for the comunity over the years, should be given a gazillion Aurums.

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:42:00 - [145]
 

Edited by: Zagdul on 08/07/2011 12:43:53
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 08/07/2011 12:15:45
Originally by: Zagdul


OK, there's a second issue with PLEX.

There's a LOT out there and the super (ISK Rich) in EVE are hording them and playing market games.

There also needs to be a PLEX sink outside of cashing them in for game time and was something that was brought up a while back in one of the reports.


Fair enough, but you don't tie that into a transaction store like NEX which ought to be a mass market money maker for CCP. It doesn't sound like they're accomplishing their goal, and they're ruining a potential new source of revenue in the process.

If the problem is the super wealthy hoarding PLEXes, then target the aspects of Eve that require that amount of wealth. Require sov bills be paid in PLEX (maybe rename PLEX in the process), or something along those lines.

But skirts for PLEX? That just won't even solve the problem.
The problem is, people are toeing in this NeX store as a way for CCP to make a ton of $$$$.

While I'm sure their finance department would love this and the tinfoil hat wearers of EVE online would like to believe this is the sole purpose of the NeX store... it might very well be possible that CCP saw a potential problem with PLEX and is trying to correct a problem before the players destroy it.

This may be a stretch and I'm gonna get called every fanboy name in the book for this... but maybe CCP was looking out for the player's best interest all along?


Originally by: K'iran
You expect us to pay 60 euro for some pixels, that don't do anything and will mostly look like CRAP in the current iteration of Incarna?

Are you ******ed?
No, they don't expect sh!t out of you.

You can chose to buy them or not.

They don't force you to, nor expect you to.


Komen
Gallente
Capital Enrichment Services
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:46:00 - [146]
 

The pricing is insane. Pricing virtual goods for real world prices is the very height of (fill in your choice of arrogance, insanity, ignorance, or glassy-eyed head in the clouds dreaming). Virtual goods ought, at the high end, perhaps be a PLEX for a fashionable outfit, or maaaaybe two plex for a one-off unique item made just for the player by a fashion designer/clothes modeler team. Instead you've priced these things at a level that makes them either a joke, an insult (durrr I am rich and stupid also bling), or a testament to your need for psychiatric help. Get some, please. If needed, I'll buy a ****ing monocle to help you with the bill, that you might return to spazships splodin'.

Account still not set to renew, until I see something about spaceships. I'll give you a hint why I play this game: I saw this back in '02 and my jaw hit the floor. I turned to a friend in the room and said, 'In expectation of this going live, goodbye, been nice knowing ya'. I knew from the moment I saw that trailer that I would be a part of something...grand.

It's been a great ride, and dammit, I do not want it to end, but I cannot justify my subscription when I see a developer act so foolishly, ignoring core gameplay. And then to set prices so high that they are not making money on a feature whose sole purpose is to create extra income and drain excess plex from the market. My brain just exploded. Grats. Herp, ****ing, derp.

dgastuffz
Caldari
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:46:00 - [147]
 

What a waste of dev time i call it fail

Makko Gray
Pheno-Tech Industries
Crimson Wings.
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:47:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
We added some new items to the store just now during downtime. May I draw your attention to the "Nightstalker" goggles for 1500 Aurum?

Obvious part: we need a lot more affordable items in the store. As soon as I can, I will get them and stock them.


Thanks, been looking forward to those! Very Happy

I appreciate that clothes whilst worn are effectively indestructible but I seriously think you should consider an even lower tier of clothes (maybe a mix and match bunch) around 40 million ISK per outfit or 1/8 of a PLEX. Either that or provide more free cloth in the character creator.

At the moment you've set the bar quite high for any new player just starting their subscription to affording even a cheap set of clothes, which won't aid participation and may make them feel excluded from content with out being double billed or waiting for some time whilst their in game ISK can match their ambitions.

Quote:
The items in the Noble Exchange come in several price ranges. Normally, an outfit will all come from one pricing tier. An affordable tier outfit can be purchased and assembled for roughly the value of one PLEX in total - slightly cheaper if you are fortunate enough to time your purchase well.


Two points on the above, firstly it would also be nice to have items that can be matched across tiers well so I can maybe get a choice few luxury items for my character while going cheaper for the rest.

Second point was regarding what you meant by timing your purchase well? Does the AURUM cost fluctuate to PLEX or are you planning on holding sales? Seems to me at the moment the the AURUM to PLEX exchange rate is pretty fixed.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:48:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Zagdul
While I'm sure their finance department would love this and the tinfoil hat wearers of EVE online would like to believe this is the sole purpose of the NeX store... it might very well be possible that CCP saw a potential problem with PLEX and is trying to correct a problem before the players destroy it.

This may be a stretch and I'm gonna get called every fanboy name in the book for this... but maybe CCP was looking out for the player's best interest all along?
That's entirely possible, but that only means that they've completely failed — even after this dev blog — to communicate what the NeX is for and why they've chosen this particular pricing structure.

If they simply stated "hey, the PLEX liabilities on our books are causing problems and we need to start bleeding PLEX from the economy", they would have been in a far better position to explain and respond to the criticism that the NeX has raised.

Nerodon
Gallente
Incapsulated Reality
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:51:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: DeBingJos
These vanity items are indestructible. Doesn't this mean that their price in isk will fall in the future?

People that do not want them anymore will sell them.
They are indestructible, this means supply will keep rising thus prices will start falling

First very slowly, but faster and faster the more items hit the isk-market.

Conclusion: It's a bad investment because the prices can only go down in the future.


Well, that means that their price in ISK will become more affordable! I hardly see that as a bad thing! Also there will be exclusive and limited edition stuff as written in the blog, these items will always be rare, therefore will rise in price significantly!

Also, the low-tier items will cost about a Plex or less PER OUTFIT! That means everything! Pants,Shirt,Shoes, that's 100Mil per item or 7.5$, that's actually not bad at all! WoW sells vanity pets and mounts for 20$ each, if I can get a full outfit for 20$ then I think it's fair.

Mid-tier and Ridiculous-tier are mostly aimed for ISK rich people, you don't have to pay with PLEX if you don't want to! That makes its price MEANINGLESS.



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