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De'Vadder
Minmatar
Dissonance Corp
BLACK-MARK
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:51:00 - [91]
 

I am quite surprised how openly you admit, that this is just a test for your other games.
Not only may we pay for two games we do not want to play, we also may be their alpha testers.
I feel so involved \o/

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:52:00 - [92]
 

I might look biased with my sig and all but I was quite underwhelmed by the devblog concerning the pricing tiers. Now don't get me wrong I have nothing against 1000€ pants if you choose to sell them and I allready understand how you came to the conclusion that stupid people will pay stupid amounts of money for "fancy" items.

I also understand that from the "Lore" standpoint, pod pilots would buy costumes that have the same cost as a planets GDP because they can. We are eternally living beings that hold no meaning to anything except their own wealth and now that we can soon walk next to other pilots, the image we choose to create to others. The sheer wealth some persons have (although I'd buy a titan).

However I would have liked to see more examples (like the nightstalker goggles) a bit more info on what is considered "lower tier" is it colours, fancyness, exclusivity? How the choices are made on a down to earth pure economical model that sort of stuff. Because in the blog you didn't say anything that was not allready said.

I would also in what way you might cater to the Roleplaying people by creating items to wear that have impact on their gameplay. Kumak's, ceremonial swords, fedo's, medals!!.

It also good to read that you really would like us to create stuff like that when it is possible, but it would be good to see al that extra info that has been given on the comments, in the DevBlog.

As a last comment, please, please please, make items destroyable in combat. If you are wearing your fancy clothes to a fight you should lose em. If +5 slaves implants get blown up, your pants are gone to!


Kossaw
H A V O C
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:52:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: Kossaw on 08/07/2011 11:52:57
3 to 4 PLEX for a "medium" outfit of clothing ?!?!?!?!

Are you guys completely f*****g insane? Have you lost complete touch with reality? Have martians stolen CCP devs and replaced them with Sony executives? Do you seriously expect us to pay that kind of real cash for a different coloured pixel on our internet avatars?

OK, its kinda fun trolling General Windypops about his $80 monocle but really its wearing a bit thin guys - The novelty has already worn off.

MICRO = SMALL. If a monocle cost $2 you'd have sold thousands by now. If boots and a shirt were 50c everyone and their dog would have bought them by now. If "premium" items were $10 then you might sell a few hundred and yes they'd be "exclusive" and "fun" for us.

I love this game and I appreciate the great stuff that CCP does. But tbh, $80 is beyond insulting. Its completely, utterly and totally offensive. Tell your marketing wonks to take your NEX and shove it.


Leiture
Amarr
Liliis tenaci vimine jungor
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:53:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
Obvious part: we need a lot more affordable items in the store. As soon as I can, I will get them and stock them.


We need free items not more "affordable" items.

Mitchello
B O R G
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:53:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Mitchello on 08/07/2011 11:56:18
Originally by: Zagdul
Originally by: Hosiden
Quote:
An exceptional tier is rumored to exist that represents a very special and rare investment for the wealthiest members of the EVE community.


Am i the only one that find this abit disturbing?
I don't.

They're vanity items.

Stuff that doesn't effect gameplay.




Right now yes. But taking the experiment as indicated to grow an experience base as indicated, that's pretty simple affirmation of progressive path pursuits. In simple terms, the investment made and resources allocated will have to pay for themselves either within EVE or within an exchange between EVE and other projects of CCP. Since any company has limited resources, allocating those is a generally tricky thing to handle with care. Prioritising as such is key. When you experiment, you have to recoup the allocation of resources at some point in time. This is called creating an internal debt, much like for example the technical debt type they incurred with Apocrypha (which haunted them for a year or so). But debt has to be paid, and thus resources will by default be allocated to do exactly that. Progressive path affirmed. And for that to be solely vanity items, no. CCP have been abundantly clear in their statements that the benchmark is game breaking items, without any definition attached. Which for starters validates convenience items. Once again, progressive path.

I don't worry about the microtransactions tbh. What I do worry about is that there are limited resources available for them to work with. What goes in one thing, comes out of another things. I sincerely hope they can maintain balance there. Which would be a first, as the historic precedent is very simple and clear.

I should add though, that there is a second angle which they appear to be consciously ignored. When you engage in a service model, and add aspects of retail on top (even in a virtual setting), you take a risk because you are adding user and user group types to your existing "collection" of those. Here too you have to be careful with how far you take it, because it is very easy to create a niche strong enough to by default either warrant allocating resources to in a higher ratio than to other environments, and because there is another risk of the niche becoming strong enough so that changing (experimenting, altering, correcting any mistakes) becomes too costly. Maybe some people can - for example - remember the old drama about level 4 missions, where some ccpians wanted those in lowsec, others didn't, stuff happened and now it's case which cannot be changed without facing structural costs.

Jens Beckstrom
Inertia Fatalis
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:55:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: Jens Beckstrom on 08/07/2011 11:55:31
It should be free of charge, period!
We pay a mothly fee, if you cant make it for that, then dont.

And incarna is possebly the worst expansion ever, it ads verry little new, its partialy broken, and you make realy ugly monocles (and then you manage to be proud of it). Remove it and work some more, and then ship it out again for christmas. It's bugged, ugly, and if you cant even deliver all the races its not even worth to release.

Good work on the Maller though, its become awsome!

Zaiboz
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:55:00 - [97]
 

Edited by: Zaiboz on 08/07/2011 11:55:41
Guys,

Step away from the keyboards and breath for a second ok, is it expensive? Hmmm, yeah id say so

Am i being forced to buy it? No

Therefore should i care about the price? No.

Neither should you if you have no intentions of buying anything

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:55:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Zagdul


Hi.

I think the point you missed and a LOT of people have missed is that if they had released the lower tier first on the Incarna release, a metric fu%Kton of PLEX's would have been cashed in for AUR and the market would have literally crashed.



Oh no, I've thought about that and I agree with you. But that's not an excuse to make the items $50-60.

That just proves AUR shouldn't come from breaking up PLEX. AUR should just be purchased with money, pure and simple. Or even take out the AUR entirely and just give me a price list. Then make everything 99 cents to a maximum of 4.99.

They would have had me there, and I would have bought stuff from the NEX store.


Excuse?

lol, you're not getting it.

If CCP released a ton of items on launch people could get for... I don't know, lets say $3-5.

PLEX's would have been bought up by EVERYONE in eve, all at once.

This would RUIN the eve economy and the complaints would be FAR worse.

In other words, allow CCP to slowly introduce items. Allow for people to get a little AUR in their wallets over time. When more people have the new currency and it's more wide spread, then it won't have an effect on PLEX prices which just happen to be one of the main controlling factors to how EVERYTHING in eve is priced.

If PLEX prices go up, so does the cost of battleships/modules... everything produced by players.



Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:56:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 08/07/2011 11:57:47
Originally by: Jada Maroo
That just proves AUR shouldn't come from breaking up PLEX. AUR should just be purchased with money, pure and simple. Or even take out the AUR entirely and just give me a price list. Then make everything 99 cents to a maximum of 4.99.
This. The fact that they're over-loading the functionality of PLEX is one of, if not the greatest problem with the whole NeX store. Had it (and AUR) been decoupled from PLEX, it would have opened up for a far more reasonable and more nimble and adaptable mechanic for price-setting and cost balancing.
Originally by: Zagdul
lol, you're not getting it.

If CCP released a ton of items on launch people could get for... I don't know, lets say $3-5.
PLEX's would have been bought up by EVERYONE in eve, all at once.

This would RUIN the eve economy and the complaints would be FAR worse.
No, he's getting it — that's why he's saying that the NeX should not have been connected in any way with PLEX. That was the key mistake made here: making AUR reliant on PLEX, when PLEX already had a function that had to be heavily guarded and preserved.

Hosiden
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:56:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Zagdul
Originally by: Hosiden
Quote:
An exceptional tier is rumored to exist that represents a very special and rare investment for the wealthiest members of the EVE community.


Am i the only one that find this abit disturbing?
I don't.

They're vanity items.

Stuff that doesn't effect gameplay.




"ok"

zcar300
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:57:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: zcar300 on 08/07/2011 12:09:40
So the most affordable outfit will cost around 250,000,000isk or $34 USD. That's ridiculous.

"occasional exceptional offers of rare goods for a very limited number of customers"

Oh and let me guess. These exceptional offers you speak of will be handed out to your favorite alliances. Communicated directly from CCPwhoever to their friend. Favoritism lives on.

Darian Nystrom
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:57:00 - [102]
 

I dont think 35 dollars for an outfit is remotely reasonable. As much as this is going to pain me to say this... I think you guys need to look at STO and their store for ideas on what reasonable prices for virtual clothes are. I think its Ironic Im now telling you to take ideas from STO (Star Trek Online) when I hate that game but you can buy iconic federation uniforms for around 3 dollars in STO. Thats about the right price for useless vanity items.

Jada Maroo
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:58:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Zagdul


Excuse?

lol, you're not getting it.




Drr, apparently you missed the part about how AUR shouldn't be tied with PLEX at all. For someone who complains about people not reading whole messages, you sure seem to suffer from that problem yourself.

4RR0W
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:59:00 - [104]
 

Outfits on that picture look ugly :( Some of them already on duality, dont even want to buy one.

Dogo Duma
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:00:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Zagdul


Excuse?

lol, you're not getting it.




Drr, apparently you missed the part about how AUR shouldn't be tied with PLEX at all. For someone who complains about people not reading whole messages, you sure seem to suffer from that problem yourself.


It's Zagdul, go over post history (well, once Chribba gets eve-search back online, he's been moving everything in a truck today according to twitter). Classic case, never changes, only pops up in certain situations Cool

Punx Evangeline
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:00:00 - [106]
 

So when is the good looking stuff coming out? Something that isn't all drab, frumpy and brown/grey/black?

-Punx

Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:00:00 - [107]
 

Do a few days of PvP ... or buy a new dress!


Seriously you make me lol. Micropayment XXL.
If only you would hire professional designers and make some good looking stuff instead of this crap.

Morgan Polaris
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:01:00 - [108]
 


Aaaaaaand, this is just another reason why you don't ask for more than real clothes:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

http://i.imgur.com/76dY5.jpg

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:01:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Jens Beckstrom
Edited by: Jens Beckstrom on 08/07/2011 11:55:31
It should be free of charge, period!
We pay a mothly fee, if you cant make it for that, then dont.

And incarna is possebly the worst expansion ever, it ads verry little new, its partialy broken, and you make realy ugly monocles (and then you manage to be proud of it). Remove it and work some more, and then ship it out again for christmas. It's bugged, ugly, and if you cant even deliver all the races its not even worth to release.

Good work on the Maller though, its become awsome!

It is.

If you would like, you can go out and run missions to get some isk then buy a PLEX on the market.


DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:02:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Zagdul


Excuse?

lol, you're not getting it.




Drr, apparently you missed the part about how AUR shouldn't be tied with PLEX at all. For someone who complains about people not reading whole messages, you sure seem to suffer from that problem yourself.


Wasn't the whole idea behind AUR to create a PLEX-sink? The more PLEX get converted to AUR the better as this was the purpose of AUR from the start.

PMolkenthin
TunDraGon
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:02:00 - [111]
 

LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

McPod
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:02:00 - [112]
 

"Deluxe tier outfits are aimed at flamboyantly rich capsuleers regardless of whether they measure their wealth in ISK, Aurum, PLEX, or currencies from Earth. While price is of little concern for these players, they could find themselves spending two or three times the price of an affordable outfit on a single piece for their ensemble. An exceptional tier is rumored to exist that represents a very special and rare investment for the wealthiest members of the EVE community"

meh. count me out.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:03:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Gnulpie on 08/07/2011 15:29:08
Great to read about this topic, finally! Now there are some couple of questions :-)


1) Why didn't you write such a blog BEFORE you opened the NeX?

2) Are the prices for the different tiers set in stone? Or are you open to suggestions from the community? I think especially the "affordable" tier is still too expensive. 1 PLEX for an outfit, that is in average $3 for an item. Why not adding items for 0.99c and below?

3) Have you considered installing AUR as a real currency in EVE?

3 a) For example players could sell things for AUR in the market or they could set payment in contracts to AUR (and ISK).

3 b) Purely NPC sold items and services could be paid in AUR (additonal to ISK maybe), for example station office rent.

4) Are there plans to improve the interface to the store? Right now it is sort of okay, but if we (hopefully at some point) have tons of stuff in there, browsing through the items and finding the right one might be pretty difficult.

5) Are the technical limitations of the store and are you working on removing the limitations? For example, is it possible that some items in the store cost Aur AND Isk at the same time?

6) Will we see player run shops in the future in stations? Will there be a fee in AUR to aquire a license for such a shop/rent? Will there be transaction taxes in AUR in those shops?

7) Will we be able to customize our clothes, like chosing colors from a predefined set for certain parts of the clothes?

8) I read only about clothing and stuff you can wear. What about ship skins and pimping the look (look only!) of my ship? Any plans for that? And how much will the customization go there?

9) Why don't you have a limited amount of items with a "counter" showing the remaining amount? This way you could have "collectors" items with for example 100 items or 1000. And everyone can see how many are left and if they need to rush or not.

10) Can we please have a devblog about what you all plan (items, functionality, events etc.) for the NeX? A blog with a serious vision statement and plan how to implement this vision would certainly help a lot!


Props for blog and all the answers so far.

Oh, and of course it might be also interesting to read (in a future blog) about all the steps necessary from the first design studies of your clothing designers to the final product in the NeX store Very Happy

SwissChris1
Playboy Delivery Service
S E D I T I O N
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:03:00 - [114]
 

In my opinion stop making bull**** clothes and finish re-designing our ships! You gave us the beautiful Scorpion model in February of 2010 (http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=732)....and now the Maller. At this pace it will take you 20+ years to get the job done.

Reilly Duvolle
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:03:00 - [115]
 

Edited by: Reilly Duvolle on 11/07/2011 14:02:37
The Mittani on the CCP/CSM "press conference":

"I believe firmly -and this is one of the action points coming out of the summit- that CCP should have explicitly stated their tier strategy and explained that in a developer blog... Had they done this [...] most of the controversy regarding the Noble exchange would have vanished in a puff of logic."


LMAO

Svalinn
SOMER Blink
Cognitive Development
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:04:00 - [116]
 

Edited by: Svalinn on 08/07/2011 12:05:51
I can't help but feel this blog has explained the pricing structure rather well, but entirely failed to explain the reasoning behind the structure.

The player base wanted, from CCP, why they chose to price them at the levels they are and what were the reasons behind? Even if the answer is a straight up and honest "We have to fund Dust 514/WoD" or "We don't want market saturation too soon.", we would at least have an answer to that question, from you, to us. Then there is no more mistaking the issue.

Please stop posting blogs that dance around an issue without addressing the key questions that the CSM and players wanted answering. I don't have a problem with people spending money on cosmetic items, I'd just like CCP to actually talk to the player base rather than talk over them.


Jada Maroo
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:04:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: Jada Maroo on 08/07/2011 12:04:07
Originally by: DeBingJos


Wasn't the whole idea behind AUR to create a PLEX-sink? The more PLEX get converted to AUR the better as this was the purpose of AUR from the start.


CCP doesn't need a PLEX sink if they create a real money sink. Very Happy

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:07:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Zagdul


Excuse?

lol, you're not getting it.




Drr, apparently you missed the part about how AUR shouldn't be tied with PLEX at all. For someone who complains about people not reading whole messages, you sure seem to suffer from that problem yourself.


OK, there's a second issue with PLEX.

There's a LOT out there and the super (ISK Rich) in EVE are hording them and playing market games.

There also needs to be a PLEX sink outside of cashing them in for game time and was something that was brought up a while back in one of the reports.

I can't quite remember the exact quote, but it was right about when PLEX's were made able to undock with and the forums went insane when 72 of them were destroyed on the Jita undock in a Kestral.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:08:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Jada Maroo
CCP doesn't need a PLEX sink if they create a real money sink. Very Happy
Weeeell… they'd still have to get rid of all those PLEXes somehow. Of course, if they had introduced the NeX in such a way that it offered a better bang for your buck (or ISK for your $$$) by buying stuff from the store and selling them on the secondary market, people would probably have scaled back on the PLEX purchases and the liability would have gone down over time that way…

Miss FYVM
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:08:00 - [120]
 

You can't half tell that dev blog was really written by someone from marketing. It explains very little about the pricing structure. It explains what the tiers are, but doesn't say a word about what everyone wants to know - WHY it's priced that way.

"Mid-tier outfits will be priced such that an outfit will total approximately 3-4 PLEX" Wow. Really? That's ******* ridiculous.

In my view, this shows me that when CCP looked at the idea of micro-transactions, they saw the term as meaning a small number of transactions, rather than a transaction costing a small amount. Well done CCP.

You know in all honesty, all of this **** is starting to make me wonder whether or not I want to continue playing the game.

Just the fact that I'm considering this, shocks me, and shows me just how far this crap is going. No wonder people are still leaving, and those who have left, feel justified in doing so.


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