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Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2011.07.10 23:25:00 - [451]
 

Someone must have gone to the Games Workshop school of completely not getting how sales work.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.10 23:32:00 - [452]
 

Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai
Someone must have gone to the Games Workshop school of completely not getting how sales work.

They understand part of it. They understand that if you sell a monocle for $80, that there will then be people who will buy one, hoping others think they're the coolest thing since sliced bread. It works.

They forgot the part where it's more clever to sell 1,000x $8 items than 52x $80 items, though.

edith prickley
Posted - 2011.07.11 00:09:00 - [453]
 

Originally by: Vin Hellsing

I plan on renewing my subscription for one more three-month period. If CCP does not get their act together by the end of that period, I'm finished with EVE.

And I was starting to get into it, too...


What constitutes "getting their act together"? I'm convinced it's longer than a 3-month job.

But ... if you are just getting into it, I'd say it's worth giving Eve a try. Actually, there's a lot to enjoy before you become a bitter vet like the rest of us quitters Wink

Ramman K'arojic
Posted - 2011.07.11 00:49:00 - [454]
 

HP 8:55

I have some questions:
I see that you have not said how many items per tier; but over all are we expecting 50 or hundreds or thousands of items. ? Will the obnoxiously priced items be one offs (given there price you probably have paid for the development cost outright)?


BTW my take on CCP current pricing model is that these goods are way over priced; hope you have sales like most retail businesses. (Limited offers such as buy 1 get 1 free, 30% off, slightly soiled (add coffee marks) 70% off and off course a $2 shop)

Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries
R-I-P
Posted - 2011.07.11 02:13:00 - [455]
 

Quick question:

Can you give me a rough estimate of how many man-hours you are currently wasting on this **** that could otherwise be put into things like....fixing the game???

Heavenly Blues
Posted - 2011.07.11 02:25:00 - [456]
 

Originally by: Desert Ice78
Quick question:

Can you give me a rough estimate of how many man-hours you are currently wasting on this **** that could otherwise be put into things like....fixing the game???


They are fixing a game, its just not the one you are paying for.

Cosmoes
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.11 03:50:00 - [457]
 

Edited by: Cosmoes on 11/07/2011 04:06:35
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 10/07/2011 10:07:46
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
I was under the impression we would get a "Why we chose this pricing strategy" blog not a "This is our pricing strategy" one - if I want to see the prices I just have to look into the NeX.
Pretty much. This dev blog doesn't do what it sets out to do.

...



This will not happen.

When have CCP ever explained to players their motivations for things? At best you'll get half an answer focusing on good things and using lots of watchwords like awesome, epic and excellence.

I'm not convinced they even try to look at all the sides of an issue. As long as their is some reason to do it that they can use to explain it to us that's good enough to go ahead and do it. Things like long term plans, analyzing the bad sides and doing reviews of where they went wrong are either not being done or being ignored.

For example evelopedia had dozens of problems and still hasn't left beta after 4 years now they plan to bring out another community site that's nearly the same except with even more potential problems. How could this possibly go wrong?

Icarus Starkiller
Forge Regional Security
Posted - 2011.07.11 07:07:00 - [458]
 

The price if 1 PLEX for an 'economy' suit of clothing? A virtual wardrobe??

For that price I could get an entire Avatar built in SL, with a custom skin and wardrobe. And it would have 100% the same effect: Nothing.

It's digital goods, people, not clothing from Mal Wart or Tiffany's! You can't do anything with it except... sit in your lag cabin and what... spin in place?

Honestly, the NEX and the goods offered is a horrible abrogation of all that once repeat: ONCE made Eve great. Now it's become the butt of bad jokes throughout the MMO world... not even the most vilified game out there, WoW, has earned as much scorn.

See you folks somewhere else, but I'll be keeping my stuff just so you can't enjoy it.

Smagd
Encina Technologies
Namtz' aar K'in
Posted - 2011.07.11 07:14:00 - [459]
 

Yeah, haha: "This is why we chose the current prices:" - followed by a list of prices and a screen shot of :awesome: new dresses in hopes to distract with shiny.

So, CCP, why did you select the prices? What is the reasoning behind your choosing them at the level they are right now?

Callidus Dux
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.11 07:57:00 - [460]
 

Edited by: Callidus Dux on 11/07/2011 10:03:56
Args.. CCP!!! Please do NOT design more such useless crap. YOU have promised to bring back the old hangar (or an acceptable equivalent). Do THIS first before you waste more time on this crap. I will NEVER use the macrotransaction. It is useless. And I demand to stay this as useless thing. There should not be an pair of glasses which made me shooting better with my weapons.

Stop the waste of time for the useless NEX-**** and bring back the promised Hangar!!!!



I hate the offending door, when I dock and the NEX-Store! WHEN will I be able to dock as normal.. as before the Incarna crap-patch?

BTW:
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
We added some new items to the store just now during downtime. May I draw your attention to the "Nightstalker" goggles for 1500 Aurum?

Obvious part: we need a lot more affordable items in the store. As soon as I can, I will get them and stock them.


NO! Mr. Monocle. Let it be with your sh!t Nex.

Bring back the old hangar. NOW!

To CCP Zinfandel:
You look really funny (LaughingLaughingSurprisedLaughingLaughing) with your monocle. If your char has a problem with his eye you should make a new clone with new eyes and NOT pay BILLIONS for a realy dumb looking monocle. Or was there an discount for CCP guys? This is EVE.. with spaceships and clones. Wink

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.07.11 09:07:00 - [461]
 

Considering that the default options from the character generator is severly lacking, wouldn't it be sensible to add things available for free or through game accomplishments? These are your paying customers after all.

It seems obvious to me that the NeX store won't affect PLEX prices when volumes are low, how can you learn anything from that? What will happen when/if the items actually become popular?

Oh and I'll tell you a secret regarding vanity items from other games. Vanity items only make sense in a playable environment. Somehow along the way you forgot to implement that environment. You won't have a market until you have an interactable Incarna.

Sadegio
Posted - 2011.07.11 09:11:00 - [462]
 

I want them epic shoulders an a big ****ing sword I can slice my enemys with!

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.07.11 09:53:00 - [463]
 

Are there any plans to integrate clothing and vanity items more into EVE gameplay?

For example by selling BLUEPRINTS of those vanity items for AUR and then let the players manufacture the items from existing (or maybe new) materials.


Any plans like this?

Cain Anung
Posted - 2011.07.11 10:34:00 - [464]
 

Well, I applaude Zinfandel for answering more direct, and being frank about it all. Good job, keep it up. Most of us will answer respectfully, Im sure. I can understand if you ignore the few diehards that insist on groping about everything, even though they could just ignore the new things, if they dont like it.
Regading the prices:
Well, Im no genious in the market-department, but I agree, that if you want this to pick up pace, you should REALLY work hard on the player manufacture-part. It would give the insentive for us to adopt the items into the game.
I still think that the enormous ambitions CPP has for the game, in the long run, is cool. But at times, it seems that youre doing some stuff, that makes the game more demanding for your PC. The new icons for modules, makes all my windows VERY slow to update. Ex: When I salvage, and double-click a wreck to loot it. I have to wait for it to load the icons images (sometimes up to 5 seconds?!), for each window.
It seems unrelated to this topic, but all in all, your Incarna UI-stuff makes for a slower gaming experience. I wonder how much that will evolve in the future, when the game has to handle enormous differing imaging, like individual ship-design, avatar-diversity etc.
Your turret-animations, for instance, are still redundant, but takes CPU to render. And tbh, its only cool, the first time you see it. Id rather use those resources for other game-mehanical stuff (like updating the windows icons faster :-)

And last: To all you malcontents out there. Understand this: This game, and the complexity of the game-mechanics (from economy to UI.issues etc), is enormous. No other game on the planet has such complexity. You should appreciate that, before *****ing and hurling insults at the Devs. To think they are doing these things to destroy the game or annoy you, is a juvenile perception. Buckle up, and send these Devs your experiences with the game, in detail, so they have a chance to understand your real worries. Instead of your constant conspiracies and innuendos.
Lets help make this a better game.
NB. I have to say: The designs of the clothes is not something Id put on my main, tbh. It would seem, that we nerds have no taste :-)

Cashcow Golden Goose
Posted - 2011.07.11 11:27:00 - [465]
 

Originally by: CCP Fallout
CCP Zinfandel's newest dev blog gives us information about the Noble Exchange's pricing strategy. You may read the blog here.

DE version
RU version


I've read Zinfandel's words on previous occasions, I trust you will understand if I don't care to read anything else he might say.

Cashcow Golden Goose
Posted - 2011.07.11 11:30:00 - [466]
 

Originally by: AnzacPaul
Can I ask how it is justified in the Eve universe that a "budget" outfit costs as much as 3 fitted battleships?


Well you can ask. There will be no answer.

Reilly Duvolle
Posted - 2011.07.11 14:17:00 - [467]
 

Edited by: Reilly Duvolle on 11/07/2011 16:38:43
Keep coming up with groundbreaking ideas CCP, you are doing great.

justin666
Posted - 2011.07.11 15:31:00 - [468]
 

funny that ccp claim eve is real

refuse to belive there is a world were a outfit will cost more money than a top end t2 battleship

ccp stop forcing us to play by your stupid vision because we dont care we just want to have fun

Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.11 15:53:00 - [469]
 

Originally by: Cain Anung
...
And last: To all you malcontents out there. Understand this: This game, and the complexity of the game-mechanics (from economy to UI.issues etc), is enormous. No other game on the planet has such complexity. You should appreciate that, ....

Lets help make this a better game.
...
EVE is an awesome game. The depth of play is amazing. And most EVE subscribers do appreciate this great title.

Yet, CCP's terrible communication regarding the NEX store, a re-direction of development capital into a console title + WIS, a recent patch with very little playability value, recent nerfs to null-sec, long-standing game-play issues and lack of iteration on game content updates from the past few years have created a scenario where people who love the game are up in arms.

Read this forum. Read the various player-generated EVE blogs. EVE subscribers try to make this game better every single day by reporting bugs, writing in-depth game design proposals, etc., etc.

When CCP decides to invest its time into MT clothing as well as a nearly useless space Barbie UI that many pilots have turned off, yeah, the dedicated subscribers to this Sci-Fi simulator are hacked off.

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.07.11 16:11:00 - [470]
 

Once the novelty wears off, most people will decide on a "look" for their character and stick with it. That means they only ever buy 1 or 2 outfits/uniforms (if the desired styles aren't available for free).

Personal opinion without stats to back it up: make worn clothes destructible & have low tier outfits cheap enough that people replace them without a thought (100 AUR items?). The repeat business will make more money and require less art-dev time/expense for updates.

Cain Anung
Posted - 2011.07.11 16:12:00 - [471]
 

Im inclined to agree. There are lots of good players, giving their 2-cents, on important issues. And no doubt; The EVE community in general, is adult and reasonably behaved. But. Its also clear, that a LOT of malcontents use their 2-cents, to launch verbal assault and depravity. Often disguesed in irony or sarcasm. Ive been on the forums, in the last month, or so, and seen plenty of crap-talk and conspirational banter, to last a life-time.
Quit the drama, is all I say. You all know who you are.
That said: CCP should make some crucial changes in their administation and setup, for sure. This last debacle is the proverbial straw. But that could happen to all corporations. We should accept that they made a booboo, and that they apparently are working hard to retify this problem. Anything else wouldnt be constructive or helpful.

Chidori kun
Minmatar
Starship Operating BastardZ
Posted - 2011.07.11 17:56:00 - [472]
 

Well what ever CCP may say atm they are totally bonkers...

Basically the clothes are costing more then our spaceships.
However they spin it AUR is a other currency it's just screwed up.

No atm I will not buy it it's way out of range of what is sensible.
It's like buying jeans for the price of a Ferrar.
Anyway no I am not against CQ or WIS as it look now a rather walk naked in the station then trying to fit a Ferrari on my ass..

Chid

Kathryn Railly
Posted - 2011.07.11 18:28:00 - [473]
 

Canceled three accounts:

EVE Online Subscription Cancelled

You have cancelled your EVE Online subscription.

Your account will be suspended at the end of the current subscription period

Reasons: Your plans to force Incarna/CQ on players. Barbies in stations is not what I signed up for when I started playing Eve Online, and as long as you plan to remove the ability to completely avoid this waste of development, I'll remove your ability to generate income from my subscriptions. Your idea and implementation of micro-transactions is ludicrous. As long as CCP and Himlter continue to believe your Eve players are to be regarded as nothing but a way to pillage funds for projects that the players have no interest in, I'll never drop another dime into your coffers.

Juil
Gallente
Phoenix Industries Pty. Ltd.
Posted - 2011.07.11 21:17:00 - [474]
 

Originally by: Juil
Edited by: Juil on 08/07/2011 16:06:20
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
Hey guys,

Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.

We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.

Any questions?


Ok I have specific questions here and I'm being open and honest about them:
  1. did you even look at other MMO's for your pricing strategy? Because honestly your prices seem to be a little high.

  2. Did you look at the PLEX costs when doing all of this. 2 plex = around 40$, that means that 7000 aur = 40$ which means that anything costing 4 plex = 80$ real life, please show me ANY other MMO charging anywhere CLOSE to this for a vanity item.

  3. Did you even look at the ISK cost for all of this?

  4. Why are all of these items being done in the form that they produce objects IN game from NOTHING?


  5. Why could the cost in AUR not be for a 1 run BPC or the like which then uses IN GAME planetary Resource Items and Industry to Create? This ability is already IN the game and would:
    1. Drive PI to actually be used for more then POS use.

    2. Still gain CCP Real Life money because the item is a B.P.C not a B.P.O


    3. Allow for the sale of the item far more easily on the eve market it actually has a DIRECT Isk cost beyond the price of the blue print.

    4. Create another new industry for the players to get into.

    5. Maintain the 'Players control what is created IN game aspect of eve.



  6. Did you even bother to consider the fact that AUR should be pruchasable seperate to PLEX?

  7. How on earth are you justifying the costs still? It does NOT take several hundred dollars to produce a single asset unless your 'outsourced' modelers are really bad.




Now you asked for the questions so there they are I'll be intrested to see if you bothe answering any of them with any real depth.


Bump for 'answer to questions' or sorry was that I'll answer questions on the first four pages then STUFU cause you are questioning my superiority?

Metalcali
Posted - 2011.07.11 23:19:00 - [475]
 

I was promised one with a latex fetish would be satisfied by the clothing selection, where is my latex Sad

Sizeof Void
Posted - 2011.07.11 23:59:00 - [476]
 

Just a bit of feedback for CCP Zinfandel (apologies, if repeating someone else's prior post):

1. Most (over 90%) of the EVE Online playerbase consists of aggressive hetero males - mid-teen to middle-age - who are interested in spaceships and blowing things up, and who probably don't spend a lot of time/money on fashion clothing in RL (ref: AT9 player commentators on YouTube - yikes!). Cool headgear, maybe - customized car/cycle paint jobs, possibly - stylish high-fashion skirts, doubtful (tasteless mini-skirts and questionable lingerie for girlfriends, hmm... ok). It is rather unlikely that sales of women's high fashion in NeX will ever justify the 3D production cost of even a small selection of such items.

2. The head and upper torso are the only parts of the avatar which are currently visible to other players. So, consider focusing your near-term production efforts on head and upper body accessories, rather than on lower body accessories. Footwear, for example, can certainly wait until the release of WIS. Until WIS, concentrate on such items as helmets, hats, hoods, eyewear, cybernetic implants, ear/facial piercings, facial tattoos, hair styles, hair/neck jewelry, shirts, jackets, epaulets, chest insignias/medals, and other things which can be currently seen in-game by other players. Monocles sell because they can be seen in-game now, not later.

Personally, I'd really like to see NeX succeed and help improve CCP's bottom line, in order to support more dev work on FIS. To make this happen, consider your target market a bit more carefully, and allocate your (undoubtably limited) 3D production resources accordingly, in order to maximize the release of the types of items which will generate more immediate player interest, sales, and research data.

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.07.12 05:53:00 - [477]
 

CCP clasifies there own virtual goods as stupid ****.
As stated in there last interview.
So its nice to know ccp looking at it in the same way.

I hope one day CCP will wake up knowing we aint there friends but there customer.
And prevent them from makin such statements in the future.

Its a fecking mess atm.

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.12 08:20:00 - [478]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
Hey guys,

Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.

We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.

Any questions?


You've already been told by your customer base that its way to expensive for the majority to bother with.

If you had stuff on there for $5 you'd get allot more custom and roi.

Look at xbox live. I can buy a whole game on there for $5, yes a whole game made by a team of people, not 1 artists afternoons work.

Look at little big planet, I can buy a whole collection of costumes several times over for the cost of one item in your store.

Your idea about brand relating to value is daft given the customer base. Your game is for geeks, nerds and other people who obsess about spreadsheets. Do you really think they give a shot about brand outside of mac vs pc or ATI vs NVIDIA?

Jarin Arenos
Posted - 2011.07.12 15:42:00 - [479]
 

I'm sorry, but I am still forced to classify your pricing scheme as "Pants-on-head ******ed". And this is coming from someone who WANTS to give you money for shiny clothes. there's this thing called "impulse purchase price". Remember, your useless clothing is competing for my impulse-buy money with fun $5-or-less indie games on Steam and Xbox Live.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:59:00 - [480]
 

Originally by: Jarin Arenos
I'm sorry, but I am still forced to classify your pricing scheme as "Pants-on-head ******ed". And this is coming from someone who WANTS to give you money for shiny clothes. there's this thing called "impulse purchase price". Remember, your useless clothing is competing for my impulse-buy money with fun $5-or-less indie games on Steam and Xbox Live.


This scheme can be summarized as "avoid giving to the wanting by setting prices for the unwanting".


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