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Marbella Wilson
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:17:00 - [271]
 

Originally by: Dalketh
Unbelievable. So this is the pricing structure the 'heroes' of the CSM agree was reasonable? A plex for the lowest tier outfit of computer pixels?

The Mittani on the CCP/CSM "press conference":

"From the CSM statement it should be obvious that the roll-out of the Noble exchange was a debacle. At least from the player's perspective. I believe firmly -and this is one of the action points coming out of the summit- that CCP should have explicitly stated their tier strategy and explained that in a developer blog. They should have shown the visual targets for the items in the Noble exchange to the player-base. Had they done this it would have been sorted out. Most of the controversy regarding the Noble exchange would have vanished in a puff of logic."

The puff didn't happen Mittani. And where is this logic that you saw that we should be seeing?

Where is CSM response to any of this?


It's safe to say now that CCP has used the CSM as a bunch of tools, they are nothing more than a PR ploy !

Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:23:00 - [272]
 

I thought CCP had a doctor in Economics on hand? Or at least someone with enough business expertise to explain that

Those

Pricing

Tiers

Are

Not

Micro

And

Are

Utterly

******ed

Raid'En
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:24:00 - [273]
 

Edited by: Raid''En on 08/07/2011 18:40:43
Edited by: Raid''En on 08/07/2011 18:26:37
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
Downtime starts in 15 minutes and will make some small tweaks to the store goods at that time (and add a few new items.)

you can't buy a whole set of clothes for one plex from what you added. try to at least do what you say...

there's still only 1000$ pants on the store. add some cheap pants plz... and boots are still way to expensive. even when incarna will allow interaction, there's no way people will look at each others boots... we will look at top, sometimes at pants, but boots no.

eyes and top have also the big advtange of being on the portrait.

top and eye slot have to be more expensive, but others parts must be way cheaper given they have way less appeal.
(hint : as perv' don't care about money you can easily put skirts at high price, i'm sure they won't care :p)

only "good" things is that the man coat is "only" 3 plexes. i was thinking it would be 24 000 AUR given monocle's price... but well, if it's not ridiculous, it's still totally unabordable. but MAYBE i'll think about it in 6 months / 1 year when we have the real incarna.

but anyway, you sitll missed the point :
on others game you don't get ONE piece of clothes for 2-3$, you get the WHOLE SET for this price. here the cheap set is at 15$.
at least add some nice shirts at 500$...

and please, more pictures. nice to see some clothes that are not on sisi, but make them better, and more.

Manu Intiraymi
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:26:00 - [274]
 

Eve has soundAurum?

Audrey Koshka
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:29:00 - [275]
 

CCP Zinfandel, a clothing request please - I'd love it if you ported over the clothing options from the old character creator. I think they'd sell well, particularly to older players who have fond memories of their old outfits. I definitely have a sense of nostalgia for my old Khanid outfit:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

I'd buy a copy for each jump clone in a heartbeat. I'll be attending EVE Vegas at the end of the month, if you or a trusted representative will be there, bribes are available too...

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:33:00 - [276]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 08/07/2011 18:36:44
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 08/07/2011 17:25:02
Originally by: Diametrix
Let's all wake up and see what is happening here: CCP is pushing the MMO market forward.
Just one problem: none of this is new, and CCP is actually following in a well-trodden path… except they're making mistakes that everyone else learned about many years ago.

Forging your own path is nice and all, but that doesn't mean there is no room for lessons already learned by others.


In total agreement here.

Hopefully the plan behind the plan is to roll it out high and gauge reaction, if it doesn't sell start aiming for lower price points until it does.

I think your low and middle tiers of pricing are going to be leaving too large a percentage of your game population in the DUST (pardon the pun).

There are a huge number of people who would be interested in dabbling, and the lower tiers would be the perfect place. Once they got started the next, more expensive items, would be easier and easier for them to justify. But if even the lower two tiers are too high, they simply won't bother at all.

Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:37:00 - [277]
 

Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 08/07/2011 18:40:29
Originally by: Lykouleon
I thought CCP had a doctor in Economics on hand? Or at least someone with enough business expertise to explain that

Those

Pricing

Tiers

Are

Not

Micro


They are just trying to model hyper inflation.

You know, 400,000,000 ISK for a pair of pants. The added button clicks that go from ISK to Aurum to Pants are just the fleecing of your RL wallet as part of the equation :)

Here's an idea - just tossing this out there. I was sadly mistaken as this is what I originally interpreted your Aurum idea to be. How about make clothes, well, affordable? Keep the Aurum conversion rate, and price outfits in the 10s of Aurum. Expensive outfits in the hundreds of Aurum. Insanely expensive outfits maybe nearing a thousand Aurum [maybe].

If I want to be a fashionable individual in EVE, I would then be able to buy a PLEX and be set for quite some time in setting up a wardrobe and buying various outfits. At these prices, most RL individuals who start spending time in stations (camped in 0.0 anyone?), might want something fashionable to wear. Nearly every pilot would likely buy a single PLEX to invest in clothing for now/future, and all would be well. Your critics would calm down, your players would be content, and the high demand for these items due to their AFFORDABLE price would keep your software engineers... err... virtual clothing designers employed. Best of all, you would not break immersion as it would be perfectly plausible that immortal pod pilots might spend a couple thousand ISK (a couple Aurum) on a piece of clothing, and/or a couple million ISK (tens/hundreds of Aurum) on something outrageous.

When you (and talking to CCP here) prefer to break immersion to make a RL dollar or two, introduce items in game that have no practical purpose other than to show how rich a person is in real life, and generally fail to understand why we - your playerbase - pays to pay this game, it gets annoying. I'm not going to rage quit over this, but to say the least it has shaped my "water cooler" conversation at work from my hobby of internet spaceships to how the company that makes my internet spaceships game is trying to create space barbie so they can charge us to accessorize.

Garekell
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:38:00 - [278]
 

Originally by: Dalketh
Unbelievable. So this is the pricing structure the 'heroes' of the CSM agree was reasonable? A plex for the lowest tier outfit of computer pixels?

The Mittani on the CCP/CSM "press conference":

"From the CSM statement it should be obvious that the roll-out of the Noble exchange was a debacle. At least from the player's perspective. I believe firmly -and this is one of the action points coming out of the summit- that CCP should have explicitly stated their tier strategy and explained that in a developer blog. They should have shown the visual targets for the items in the Noble exchange to the player-base. Had they done this it would have been sorted out. Most of the controversy regarding the Noble exchange would have vanished in a puff of logic."

The puff didn't happen Mittani. And where is this logic that you saw that we should be seeing?

Where is CSM response to any of this?


THIS. A week after CSM/CCP talk YET AGAIN about communication and listening to the people, and we get a politically correct nothing of a blog on vanity prices, which are still outrageous ignoring one of the main player concerns with it.

Just one week and it starts falling apart again - way to go. Mad

RC Denton
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:40:00 - [279]
 

Edited by: RC Denton on 08/07/2011 18:41:00
Ya those prices are a bit, umm, much. I could see paying 1 plex for clothing BPOs or something along those lines, but not for just an outfit. That said I think that if they released Lingerie for female toons, you'd see a very high demand for that as single computer nerd players do their own versions of space barbie playboy photo shoots Wink.

Kinuko
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:42:00 - [280]
 

So finally CCP went full nuts. Or maybe they made their research correctly and there are huge amounts of ******s playing EVE online. I don't know which one is correct tbh.

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:44:00 - [281]
 

Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Originally by: Lykouleon
I thought CCP had a doctor in Economics on hand? Or at least someone with enough business expertise to explain that

Those

Pricing

Tiers

Are

Not

Micro

And

Are

Utterly

******ed


They are just trying to model hyper inflation.

You know, 400,000,000 ISK for a pair of pants. The added button clicks that go from ISK to Aurum to Pants are just the fleecing of your RL wallet as part of the equation :)

Here's an idea - just tossing this out there. I was sadly mistaken as this is what I originally interpreted your Aurum idea to be. How about make clothes, well, affordable? Keep the Aurum conversion rate, and price outfits in the 10s of Aurum. Expensive outfits in the hundreds of Aurum. Insanely expensive outfits in the few thousand Aurum.

If I want to be a fashionable individual in EVE, I would then be able to buy a PLEX and be set for quite some time in setting up a wardrobe and buying various outfits. At these prices, most RL individuals who start spending time in stations (camped in 0.0 anyone?), might want something fashionable to wear. Nearly every pilot would likely buy a single PLEX to invest in clothing for now/future, and all would be well. Your critics would calm down, your players would be content, and the high demand for these items due to their AFFORDABLE price would keep your software engineers... err... virtual clothing designers employed. Best of all, you would not break immersion as it would be perfectly plausible that immortal pod pilots might spend a couple thousand ISK (a couple Aurum) on a piece of clothing, and/or a couple million ISK (tens/hundreds of Aurum) on something outrageous.

When you (and talking to CCP here) prefer to break immersion to make a RL dollar or two, introduce items in game that have no practical purpose other than to show how rich a person is in real life, and generally fail to understand why we - your playerbase - pays to pay this game, it gets annoying. I'm not going to rage quit over this, but to say the least it has shaped my "water cooler" conversation at work from my hobby of internet spaceships to how the company that makes my internet spaceships game is trying to create space barbie so they can charge us to accessorize.

CCP's response: In future, please put the important bit "I'm not going to rage quit over this," up front so we don't have to waste so much time reading your hurf-durf.

Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:46:00 - [282]
 

Quote:
CCP's response: In future, please put the important bit "I'm not going to rage quit over this," up front so we don't have to waste so much time reading your hurf-durf.


I've read Hilmar's e-mail, but I still have faith that CCP cares about their fans slightly more than "if they don't quit, F*ck 'em"

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:48:00 - [283]
 

Some more comments:

Te need or desire to have clothes for clones is yet another reason you need lower prices. Even with your present lowest tier, what would it take for me to have a full wardrobe for each of my clones for all seven of my pilots? $1000? $20000? Its silly expensive.

So CCP: given all the cost comments in this thread, what do you think about tiers that are lower cost, say taking off a zero or two?

On another note: When I first heard about incarna, I really really really was looking forward to being able to be creative, design and produce my own clothing line. But the way you have set things up that is not possible. Ive heard two reasons: You want clothes in "the style of eve" and an industry term: "Time to P**** (read: Gentleman's sausage)". For the first, as this is a sandbox, should not the players decide what the style of eve is? For the second, and to some extent the first, I got a proposal: Aurum for player designed content.

How it would work: If a player designs something, you do not automatically allow it in the game. Someone at CCP examines the item and see if it is appropriate. If it is, in it goes. But what about the time CCP spends doing this task, what pays for that? Well, the player does, via Aurum. This way we get to be creative and the sandbox can evolve.

CCP; have you considered anything like this?

Kilrath Uskarl
Caldari
Advent Chaos Theory
KRYSIS.
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:54:00 - [284]
 

I love EVE, it's my favorite game. I hate what you guys are doing right now. Why not just make the clothes available for isk only and then if people really really want them they can sell plex. Please just close the stupid store. Please I beg you. It's a horrible idea, you've guys have had tons of great ideas but this is not one of them. I'd be willing to pay a buck or two more in my subscription to not see the noble exchange or anything anyone buys from it.

Zeta Kalin
Large Rodent Hunters
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:54:00 - [285]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
Hey guys,

Important note here. This is about learning.

[...]

Any questions?


Yes. What bleach brand tastes the best?

Seriously, way not to address how immersion breaking this pricing is. Clothes more expensive than aircraft carriers are just completely ludicrous, luxury item or not. You are (were?) in the business of selling a MMORPG. Since you seem to have forgotten I'll tell you what the three last letters mean. Role Playing Game. Well you broke it, utterly.

Anyway, thanks for making it clear, no regrets whatsoever about leaving. Wishing you the best in your milking of the bovine player base that will be left.


Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:55:00 - [286]
 

The sellouts in here who are whining that they don't mind that the game is broken, that CCP are liars, that the whole last expansion was about playing overheat-my-video-card-prison-cell-barbie but that OMG they won't STAND for such OUTRAGEOUS PRICES make me chuckle a bit.

If CCP were otherwise competent/honest and the game wasn't so bugged/bot-ridden/broken, if Aurum hadn't been introduced and if Incarna were optional, dropping a few hundred million ISK for an indestructible outfit would be a perfectly reasonable price and an excellent ISK sink.

Lots of valid complaints about CCP to choose from. Pricing strategy on space-barbie clothes ain't one.

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:03:00 - [287]
 

Do you realize how stupid you look putting out blogs to answer question then conspicuously NOT answering them?

Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:03:00 - [288]
 


Players been asking for more ISK faucets in EVE for a long time, now that we get one, no one appricate it either.
Seriously people need to stop convert PLEX to real world $ and then compare to jeans you buy at wallmart or whatever.

I played EVE since 2003, the last month I never seen the EVE community so much up in flames and whine so much. It kinda made me feel embarrased, because for a long time the EVE community sort of held a higher ground to many other mmo commmunities out there, or at least that been the impression.

If you dont like the direction something take, don't use it. Act like a five year old and go ape**** doesn't solve things.

I just look at Incarna, CQ and such as the first step towards something else. I don't like it particular just now (neither does my gfx card), but who nows what future bring right? Just like I didn't like many other changes that happend in the past and unresolved things/issues.

I don't plan to spend a single AUR in the NEX shop, and rather than ***** about prices there, just don't use it already. If no one use it, price will go down. And if price doesn't go down, and people dress their space barbies from it, let them.

The people designing dress's and stuff for NEX shop is not the same people that code the game. CCP got several teams working on different things, I thought most had understod that by now though.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:07:00 - [289]
 

Originally by: Ruffio Sepico
Players been asking for more ISK faucets in EVE for a long time, now that we get one, no one appricate it either.
It's not an ISK faucet, so people not appreciating it from that perspective is hardly surprising.

Solosky
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:07:00 - [290]
 

CCP Zinfandel

Did you pay $70 out of your pocket for your monocle?

Dr Sodius
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:08:00 - [291]
 

as long as they are ONLY vanity items in the NeX shop, i dont care if they cost 2 or 200 plexes.. b/c no one need this

REMEMBER CCP! only vanitiy items!

Raid'En
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:14:00 - [292]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
Do you realize how stupid you look putting out blogs to answer question then conspicuously NOT answering them?

if he had realized he wouldn't have blogged... well i hope xD

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:15:00 - [293]
 

Originally by: Dr Sodius
as long as they are ONLY vanity items in the NeX shop, i dont care if they cost 2 or 200 plexes.. b/c no one need this

REMEMBER CCP! only vanitiy items!


No, not only vanity items. They only 'plan' to sell vanity items in their vanity items store.

The non vanity items such as restoring functionality that they broke, skillpoints, etc., will be sold via another distribution channel (not in their vanity items store.)

Then when the massive influx of Japanese players occurs, their 'plans' will change and you'll get the gold ammo/ships.

Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:17:00 - [294]
 

Originally by: Ruffio Sepico

If you dont like the direction something take, don't use it. Act like a five year old and go ape**** doesn't solve things.



Many would ignore Incarna if they could. It isn't planned to be optional, though. Trolling?

I believe most people have many different things that makes them upset. It isn't just one thing but many (like 18 months etc.). Stuff pile up and when people don't see a brighter future then they should react IMO. This latest fiasco just happened to be the last straw. We don't know what the future holds but will make our own conclusions. This is by CCP design, if they wanted to give a clearer picture of the future then they could.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:22:00 - [295]
 

Dear CCP,


You realize, by having "pricing tiers" with a high and middle being so high up there, that you are devaluing the "ultra low tier" (or whatever) - the one people would be actually willing to buy off of, to the point it becomes unappealing.

What you are doing is sacrificing what would be your core market for a make believe market.

Actually, that kind of sounds like EVE versus WOD. . .

Sakura Ren Fenikkusu
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:34:00 - [296]
 

Edited by: Sakura Ren Fenikkusu on 08/07/2011 19:36:49
Edited by: Sakura Ren Fenikkusu on 08/07/2011 19:34:01
Originally by: Suicide Goddess
... and no, its my stuff... it will collect dust in my hanger. ;p


Well, technically it's CCP stuff they were just letting you use it since you had a subscription.(See ToS) CCP, can I have his stuff?

Now, let's throw some numbers around to look for solutions.

For Consideration:
  • CASH $15 = 3,500 AUR = 1 PLEX = 370 mil ISK
  • 'Looking Glass Occular Implant' = 12,000 AUR = 1.3bil ISK = ~$50
  • 'Mens Boots' = 1,000 AUR = 105mil ISK = $4


Now, the only way to adjust these values, without interfering with the pre-existing economy, would be to INCREASE how much AUR you get from PLEX, or to DECREASE the value of items in the NeX.

For Example:
  • CASH $15 = 10,000 AUR (Modified) = 1 PLEX = 370 mil ISK
  • 'Looking Glass Occular Implant' = 12,000 AUR = ~450mil ISK = ~$20
  • 'Mens Boots' = 1,000 AUR = ~40mil ISK = $2


CCP will be making less money per item, but they will probably get more sales than if they were to remain at current prices.

Altering the PLEX -> AUR ratio will also bring the value of items closer to what would be more role-play friendly.

Hmm..If you think about it, we currently have to get out of our pods every time we dock, surely we aren't getting dressed/undressed every time. We could reason that Capsuleer's clothes are more expensive because they are designed to be resistant to and submerged in pod fluid...LOL


Cherry Nobyl
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:34:00 - [297]
 

I got into this game for the Science Fiction, not the Science Fashion.

If Space Barbie is the only thing we can look forward to in the next few updates to a subscription game, then there's no reason for me to stay with Eve CCP.

Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:34:00 - [298]
 

Originally by: Ra Vhim
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico

If you dont like the direction something take, don't use it. Act like a five year old and go ape**** doesn't solve things.



Many would ignore Incarna if they could. It isn't planned to be optional, though. Trolling?

I believe most people have many different things that makes them upset. It isn't just one thing but many (like 18 months etc.). Stuff pile up and when people don't see a brighter future then they should react IMO. This latest fiasco just happened to be the last straw. We don't know what the future holds but will make our own conclusions. This is by CCP design, if they wanted to give a clearer picture of the future then they could.


Yeah but end of the day this is CCP's baby. I tried other mmo's out there and even tested some in the works, but none been able to draw me a way from EVE. Why that? Maybe because of a lot invested in time, effort, friends and so on. I guess players get emotionaly attached in one way, but keep attack CCP over and over when they want to expand, go new ways etc doesn't help. It would have been sad if EVE hadn't changed/evolved since it launched.

As for many players posting on the forums claiming to unsub and such, fine for them, its their way to disagree. It's not what you say, but what you do right? But at same time I see a lot of new players in EVE these days as well. CCP will notice with subs going either way. Having people post on the forums saying they unsubing doesn't mean much before the actual numbers show it.

PLEX already made EVE a playground for people with deep wallets in the real world, characters get farmed and sold for isk bought by PLEX, so ***** about this whole NEX shop and prices of space barbie clothes (vanity items), is way to late.

Ze'ev Sinraali
Ataraxia Pharmacies
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:42:00 - [299]
 

Lab coat.

I need a lab coat CCP.

I can't do science without one.

Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:52:00 - [300]
 

I have no problem with vanity items. I don't even mind a few expensive vanity items being made available. But it really is the case that these are not microtransactions even at the low-tier.

Suggesting an adjustment of PLEX -> Aurum from 3500 to at least 5000. Increased accessibility means more sales. More sales that could offset the lower price tag. A mid-range outfit at 3-4 PLEX is pretty ridiculous, even if it is current indestructible outside of the cargo hold.

I seriously hope that microtransactions in DUST514, where bought virtual goods have gameplay implications, are not upwards of $15.


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