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VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.07.07 19:06:00 - [1]
 


Newer player here. Couldn't decide on a cruiser level ship to save my life. Really just don't like any of the cruisers/battle cruisers in the game right now. The best seem to be too slow for me, and the fast ones I don't particularly like (Hurricane) or are way too expensive to main (Cynabal) even for a monocle wearer.

I like it down here at frig level and I'm going to keep going with it. Instead of getting bigger ships to participate in fleet/corp adventures I think I'll try to be a very good scout, as I hear these are rare.



If possible I'd like to stick to the Anathema, because it looks wicked and I like the cap recharge bonus, but I'd be fine with any since they're all faster then the Anathema and I do like speed.

What I'd like would be a basic outline of what you'd want for a fleet/gang scout, along with what it would mean for the player to be 'good' at that, vs just simply filling the role. I can google guides but link me the best one you'd want your scout to learn from.

Cloak, Probe, Cyno?/Anti-Drone weapon for tackle?
Dual Prop? Warp Disrupt/Scram?, Ship Scanner?
Armor v Nano fit?

Dark Pangolin
Caldari
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Posted - 2011.07.07 20:45:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Dark Pangolin on 07/07/2011 20:55:29
The scout I would want in every fleet I FC would be someone in a CovOps intended to do exactly that...SCOUT...Any of these CovOps ships would be perfect...

Anathema
Buzzard
Helios
Cheetah

I tend to lean towards the Buzzard or Helios because of the extra Mid Slot.

Fit something like this...


[Helios, Scoutimus Prime]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Target Painter II
Target Painter II

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe I

Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I


With a 13.5AU warp speed, a cov ops cloak, an align time under 4 sec, and a speed of 500m/s without a prop mod you are virtually impossible to catch. You job is to be ahead of the fleet. Find targets, shadow them...bring the fleet in to kill. If the targets safe up...you probe, get in close...provide a warp in. Usualy its a good idea for you to align out, as the FC calls the command to warp to you or warps fleet you count to 5 and warp out...so the fleet lands on the enemy and doesnt decloak you.

If you are a KM ***** you can warp back in at 100KM and target paint to your hearts content...but really you should be scouting the next system over while the fight happens..to make sure you're not going to get jumped or trapped :)

The simple but important things to do as scout are;
1) Give total count in Local, # of Friendlies, # of Enemies, # of neutrals
2) D-Scan at every gate, report what is on scan off the gate
3) Listen tot he FC and Give Clear information...saying "There is a crap load of them" means nothing to an FC...Saying "There are 5 Hurricanes, 5 Drakes, 3 Interceptors, 1 Onyx"...means a lot to an FC
4) Stay CALM
5)STAY FREAKING CALM...seriously...stay calm...you have a cloak and all the time in the world...if you jump into a camp, take a D-scan, warp off to safety, type out their fleet composition, and take notice of their ranges to gate and relative locations around the gate if possible...warp back and keep an eye on them...see where they align..where they warp...etc
6) Practice, practice scanning, practice probing, practice
7) Make Safe spots EVERYWHERE...EVERYWHERE... especially off the gates you always use


ENJOY!

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.07.07 22:12:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 07/07/2011 22:12:32
Thanks, that's a good start to get me going.

I don't care about KM at all. Not even the slightest bit. If anything I'd just assume stay off of them. Is there anything better I can do with my mid slots? I thought the ship/cargo scanners would be useful, but now that I think about it I guess they'd have to see me if I were to use those, which would tell them they've been scouted.
Maybe just cap batteries to keep my cap higher while using the MWD. My Anathema cap stables on a MWD with a low slot item, but then can't warp well from the level it is cap stable.

Shepard Book
Posted - 2011.07.07 22:54:00 - [4]
 

Cynabal is not the best scout because lack of web or you weaken your tank to do so. Huricane is too slow IMO.

I would say Sabre, interceptor, or nano recon ( rapier is easiest to fit and Arazu is great with the LR point/ Scram) for a scout ship. You want to be able to tackle and force through targets sometimes. These also give you the option to hold cloak on jump in for timer, and power back to jump if you find yourself in a big camp. Try not to bounce off the gate. A scout that cannot tackle is almost a waste IMO. Cov ops can be used but are too fragile for my liking while you wait for back up. You can use a recon to probe someone down with decent skills.

Interceptor is what I would train for first seeing how you say you are new. Then go from there if you like the role. GL

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.07.07 23:38:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 07/07/2011 23:42:02
I like the idea of just being a scout a lot better. Maybe for small scale like roaming a corp's space and identifying targets for them, I could tackle just one enemy for them if it was a favorable scenario. I wouldn't want to try and tackle in the open though. I'd rather be doing as the other guy suggested and continue to scan ahead while they had the fight.

If I were to try and be a scout + heavy tackle I'd probably look at the T3's since they are the only other ships with bonuses. I see where you said high skills... but high skills + bonuses is still good compared to high skills + no bonuses.

EDIT---
Well now that I look at those they're not covert ops cloaks and their tackle bonuses are the same subsystem type as their probe bonuses so that doesn't really help as much as I thought.

ThrashPower
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.07.08 02:35:00 - [6]
 

So far whats posted in this thread seems pretty far from reality of most gangs and generic roaming pvp, sure its nice to have a prober with you in gang but its way more important to have competent tackle in front of the fleet that can engage stuff and escalate fights before you move your gang in.

you'll be much better of flying a dramiel or a interceptor 9 out of 10 times, and the one time you decide to just bring a cov-ops (something I think nobody should do, because its much more efficient to just let the fc or someone else dualbox one) make sure to fit a warp disruptor and at least a damage control. Otherwise you will just be flying around space watching carriers warp out of anomalies all day and your covops is too light to bump tackle it anyways.

you can also fit expanded probe launcher on a cloaky interdictor, its a niche role but really useful at times depending on what kind of fleet you are in.

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.07.08 04:16:00 - [7]
 

Okay, it sounds like people don't usually use a dedicated scout and that someone is just throwing a probe launcher on whatever else they have handy, or the tackler to cut out the middle man.

Malediction is good for that right? Another Khanid ship right there with my Anathema. Looks good, nice and fast, cap and defense bonuses. I'm fine with this as somewhere to go long term once I'm good at the scout part and have more money. To start with I'd rather play it safe as a spectator though.

Now... did you say BUMP tackle? Am I correct in understanding that this would be someone ramming another person's ship to stop them from warping away by messing up their alignment? This would be to keep them there during the decloak target delay non covops ships have to wait through? LOL?

Right now I have a magnate with a probe launcher and salvager I, MWD nano,cpu+,cap+ basically just trying to ninja loot/salvage people by finding them in missions/sites and that's been fun. Probably less money then if I ran my own missions, but I'm getting better at the 3d interface. I saw a stealth bomber at an asteroid belt so I went to check it out, and I took his salvage when he bombed a mining ship he must have had rights on. He didn't say anything but he targeted me and then sat there for a minute...

Dark Pangolin
Caldari
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:12:00 - [8]
 

Just to be clear, I am assuming you have a 20-30 man fleet and can afford a dedicated scout (i.e. you have other guys for tackle)...my experience has been that when you scout is your fast tackle (inty) while you roam looking for targets, your scout/tackle gets himself killed more often than not, even when they are experienced veteran pilots...and you are out both a scout and fast tackle. Also an interceptor 100km off you is a clear sign that you are being scouted out...people feel more comfortable and complacent when they cant actualy see the scout on their overview (even thought they may know he is in local) I find it is best to use a croaky ship to scout.

In smaller gangs 5-10 pilots you are probably better off having your scout be a Falcon/Rapier; a cloaky ship serving a good role in combat as well as scouting, (falcon is preferred)

A lot of people do dual/triple box with scout/boosting alts...the OP did not ask "What role can I fill that a guy with 5 accounts can also fill?"...he asked what he should do as a scout.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:59:00 - [9]
 

Types of scouts you can use vary depending on what kind of fleet you are in, and what you want to engage.

Interdictor / Dramiel / Sabre / Similar :

The most useful type of scout since it can get a point on things fastest and contribute to a fight far better than a cov-ops. 90% of the time this is your best bet.

Dictor :

Fairly aggressive and effective but can be used to surprise camps and lock them down in advance of bringing in the rest of the fleet. Dual bubbling and cloaked fits or more standard fitted can be used. Dictors tend to die a lot though and unless you know what you are doing you are more likely to bubble your own gang at the wrong time :P

Cov-ops prober :

While you CAN use these if your primary goal is to probe out mission runners, you are better off using a cloaking T3 for the purpose since you aren't exactly going to need a large gang to kill mission / anom runners anyway. Handy if you are dual boxing in a DPS ship at the same time since you can just cloak and forget it.

Blockade Runner (Cloaky Hauler) :

Handy as bait and for carrying supplies and hauling loot back too. Handy for dual boxing, much less so for fleets. Again, anyone in the fleet can effectively bring one along for resupplies and support and leave the scouting to something more effective.

Overtanked BS / BC :

If you are confident enough / suicidal enough and happy to commit to whatever you come across you can use a shiny bait ship. Be sure to have the remote reps to keep it alive once it's taken aggression. This should be much less regarded as a scouting ship than as a bait tactic, but it's worth considering.

Bombers :

Not exactly the best agility in the world but again can get an initial point in the right situation (mainly catching PVE'ers), and has some merit in smaller gangs.

Then you get people scouting in Arazus and all kinds of things. It can be done, but really you want to know your fleet and your target before getting specific like this.

---

While you can scout in a variety of ways, as Thrash said, the #1 most useful and common is to use an interceptor / fast frig. Your role is to gather intel on a system very quickly, report back and possibly get initial tackle on a ship while also contributing some DPS or anti tackle support. Nothing else does this as well.

Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:07:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Chandaris on 08/07/2011 15:07:07
Lachesis for long point (w/ recon 5)

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:42:00 - [11]
 

There are two sorts of scout :

1) Cloaky - covops if you want, recon, T3 etc. These should be well ahead of the fleet - anything from 3-10 jumps if its quiet and you're hunting. For a covops you should be at least 5 jumps out, maybe more. You'll dscan mainly rather than probe as everyone has probes on overview now. A Stealth Bomber is a nice choice for tackle (as long as you don't have to stick around long) and you can KM ***** on it;

2) Skirmisher - something that can tackle fast and hold while fleet comes from max 1-2 jumps away. Interceptors are favourite for this but anything frigate sized will do.

So which one do you want to be?

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.07.09 04:23:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 09/07/2011 04:29:26
Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 09/07/2011 04:27:36

Nice thread, wow.

Unfortunately we've hit the end of my play experience. I'm going to need to get my skills up, join a corp, and lose a few ships before I really know how to continue this discussion. Definitely bookmarked for reference though.

If I had my choice I'd like to stay 100% in an Anathema. It's just my nature that I would prefer to be known to pilot one specific ship even if that's not normal for EVE.
For now though I'm going to just stick to the Magnate and then Anathema as soon as I cert for it and ninja salvage/loot while my probe skills go to V.

I'm glad I gave this part of the game a try, because I definitely like being the little fast ship that knows everything. o.O





EDIT---
Quote:
While you can scout in a variety of ways, as Thrash said, the #1 most useful and common is to use an interceptor / fast frig. Your role is to gather intel on a system very quickly, report back and possibly get initial tackle on a ship while also contributing some DPS or anti tackle support. Nothing else does this as well.


This little tidbit intrigues me.

I would love to be a scout that was good at killing enemy tacklers. Is this commonly useful? You said Interceptor for doing all of these things at once, but what about a T2 destroyer interdictors for better anti-frig weapons and bubbles? I like all four of those, and there's a Khanid one, the Heretic.

Zombie Jeebus
Amarr
Alt Holdings llc
Posted - 2011.07.09 05:42:00 - [13]
 

It would really depend on the gang you are flying with.

If you are in a fast/nano/wulfpack type fleet then a dram or inty will work well.

If you are flying with armour hacs or a bs fleet then you don't have to be quiet as fast and a cloaky recon can serve you very well. The advantages here are obvious.. you can easily fit probes to scan off grid targets and provide warpins. Once the fight is going you can also provide point/web/neut/jams at range based on your flavour of recon.

Cov ops are ok in a pinch.. but unless you need to get in close cloaked and drop a suicide cyno (or wreck lol) one of the above choices would be better.

Blunted Blazer
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.10 02:37:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Blunted Blazer on 10/07/2011 02:49:43
Edited by: Blunted Blazer on 10/07/2011 02:43:27
Edited by: Blunted Blazer on 10/07/2011 02:41:01
Originally by: VKhaun Vex


Unfortunately we've hit the end of my play experience. I'm going to need to get my skills up, join a corp, and lose a few ships before I really know how to continue this discussion.


VKhaun,
I know the feeling. Just started playing eve about a month ago myself.
The classes & seminars available through Agony Empire might be something to check into. I plan on enrolling in their "Specialist Classes" later this season myself... Here's the link:
http://www.agony-unleashed.com/wiki/index.php?title=Agony_Empire_Classes_and_Seminars

Keep in mind that Agony IS a PVP oriented group.
Good luck!

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.07.10 04:01:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 10/07/2011 04:04:50
The Eris looks interesting for this.

Bubble, Probe, Cloak.
4 thermal missiles to counter tackle from a distance.
4 lows for BCU/DCU/Nano

I don't see a single Battleclinic fit for the Eris that primaries missiles. Strange... Thermal is a good damage type, it has room for BCU's, and people generally dislike hybrids.

EDIT--
At work without EFT...
Is this a fitting issue with CPU from launchers?


 

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