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blankseplocked The real reason why CCP is selling vanity items for $$
 
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noobitussin
Posted - 2011.07.07 09:02:00 - [1]
 

is because revenue is not climbing. Subs are not increasing and with the onset of new MMOs, those profit margins may start going red. Subs will not be growing because eve is marketed to/or has a reputation for catering to the hardcore gamer.

I mean lets face it, the people who made up the bulk of the MMO subscription markets are the casual/bad mouth breathing players and even has NO WAY of tapping into this demographic unless they do some drastic gameplay changes. These people just wants to log in for a bit,jump into a ship and maybe go pew pew with some aliens or each other. In eve, the casual person can hardly do that.

In order to play the game, you have to train(takes a time for some ships), you have to farm(ships costs an arm and a leg), you have to research what to put into your space junk, and you have to join player corps(which opens a whole can of n00bie unfriendliness).

Then when you die, you lose everything! Can you imagine in WOW where if a player dies, the devs will tell him that he (a) will lose experience and (b) will lose all his equipment (c) will be in some player's bragging rights board or something?

In order to grow their revenues, without doing RMTs for in game advantages, eve had to evolve. They had to lower the penalty for death so that more people people will do space pew pew fights. Right now everyone is cowering with each other's blob because death is too costly in this game. They had to lower the cost of ships, maybe allow people to buy them with points from doing missions. A fully fitted cruiser from doing 2 level 1 missions. Don't make them scrounge for parts, give them a default fit. If they want to mess with it, they can still do so.

Remove cloning altogether. Remove skill point loss from death. Remove implant loss or even better get rid of implants altogether so as to even the playing field. Expecting casual people to clone themselves before they jump back to the fray is a lot of bother.

Madcapnl
The Rising Stars
The Volition Cult
Posted - 2011.07.07 09:04:00 - [2]
 

Yeah.........WOW is that way dude -->

Also, "Me too" strategies are usually bad for companies.

Enlai Huan
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.07 09:19:00 - [3]
 

I dont get why it's so hard for people to understand that companies will try to make money. In fact, that is their primary function.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.07.07 09:26:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Enlai Huan
I dont get why it's so hard for people to understand that companies will try to make money. In fact, that is their primary function.


I don't understand why people can't reason that eve makes money, so much money it funds not only EVE but DUST, WOD and turns a profit for all involved.

Where do people say CCP shouldn't make money, no where but a standard troll response is 'they aren't a charity', and other forms of 'this is a business'. Maybe they could have tried fixing the game and making it great instead of filled with bits of things that are okay, good, or crap cause they kept jamming stuff in w/o balancing it, updating them or 'iterating' on them.

Nope, the only way to make money and therefore make eve better, another troll gem, is to chase new subscriptions and of course anything that might bring more money in like mt, etc.

Enlai Huan
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.07 09:32:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Kerrisone
Originally by: Enlai Huan
I dont get why it's so hard for people to understand that companies will try to make money. In fact, that is their primary function.


I don't understand why people can't reason that eve makes money, so much money it funds not only EVE but DUST, WOD and turns a profit for all involved.

Where do people say CCP shouldn't make money, no where but a standard troll response is 'they aren't a charity', and other forms of 'this is a business'. Maybe they could have tried fixing the game and making it great instead of filled with bits of things that are okay, good, or crap cause they kept jamming stuff in w/o balancing it, updating them or 'iterating' on them.

Nope, the only way to make money and therefore make eve better, another troll gem, is to chase new subscriptions and of course anything that might bring more money in like mt, etc.



Reading almost any MMO forum gives you the idea that players get gererally ****ed when the company makes money.

Sure, there will be bugs in any game (try and find an MMO without one). If so unhappy with the game, why play? I'd figured people so unhappy would have moved on.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.07.07 09:44:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Enlai Huan
Originally by: Kerrisone
Originally by: Enlai Huan
I dont get why it's so hard for people to understand that companies will try to make money. In fact, that is their primary function.


I don't understand why people can't reason that eve makes money, so much money it funds not only EVE but DUST, WOD and turns a profit for all involved.

Where do people say CCP shouldn't make money, no where but a standard troll response is 'they aren't a charity', and other forms of 'this is a business'. Maybe they could have tried fixing the game and making it great instead of filled with bits of things that are okay, good, or crap cause they kept jamming stuff in w/o balancing it, updating them or 'iterating' on them.

Nope, the only way to make money and therefore make eve better, another troll gem, is to chase new subscriptions and of course anything that might bring more money in like mt, etc.



Reading almost any MMO forum gives you the idea that players get gererally ****ed when the company makes money.

Sure, there will be bugs in any game (try and find an MMO without one). If so unhappy with the game, why play? I'd figured people so unhappy would have moved on.


Why is 'love it or leave it' the 'answer'?

Like many I put up with buggy/glitches and the horrible documentation/explanation of features and mechanics where I had to get information from other people or read blogs/faqs from other players use their tools/apps etc JUST to manage to play the game and have fun. I stuck with it because I expected and hoped they'd address those issues but it wasn't long 6months or a year before it was painfully obvious that it was SOP to ignore those things. Even worse when they often don't consider the problems problems but 'design defects' ie it doesn't work intuitively or how it 'should' but it was programmed wrong so it isn't a bug and we don't HAVE to fix it.

I play because I do still enjoy aspects of it but I don't like seeing my enjoyment 'ruined' or 'tainted' with crap that interferes or breaks that for no logical reason or done for what seems like silly short sighted goals. I'm also not going to walk away from something I paid for until my time runs out or I really don't 'get' anything 'good' out of it. I'm not there yet, I also still 'hope', though much less as times goes on, that CCP will 'fix' the game.

Rage quitting is not how I will end my character's 'careers' until I do leave I'll keep trying to push CCP through discussion and calling out their BS as I see it. If all the 'unhappy' people moved on there wouldn't be as many players in the game, as many if not all us, were unhappy trying to figure our way around the game when we started.

Enlai Huan
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.07 09:55:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Kerrisone
Originally by: Enlai Huan
Originally by: Kerrisone
Originally by: Enlai Huan
I dont get why it's so hard for people to understand that companies will try to make money. In fact, that is their primary function.


I don't understand why people can't reason that eve makes money, so much money it funds not only EVE but DUST, WOD and turns a profit for all involved.

Where do people say CCP shouldn't make money, no where but a standard troll response is 'they aren't a charity', and other forms of 'this is a business'. Maybe they could have tried fixing the game and making it great instead of filled with bits of things that are okay, good, or crap cause they kept jamming stuff in w/o balancing it, updating them or 'iterating' on them.

Nope, the only way to make money and therefore make eve better, another troll gem, is to chase new subscriptions and of course anything that might bring more money in like mt, etc.



Reading almost any MMO forum gives you the idea that players get gererally ****ed when the company makes money.

Sure, there will be bugs in any game (try and find an MMO without one). If so unhappy with the game, why play? I'd figured people so unhappy would have moved on.


Why is 'love it or leave it' the 'answer'?

Like many I put up with buggy/glitches and the horrible documentation/explanation of features and mechanics where I had to get information from other people or read blogs/faqs from other players use their tools/apps etc JUST to manage to play the game and have fun. I stuck with it because I expected and hoped they'd address those issues but it wasn't long 6months or a year before it was painfully obvious that it was SOP to ignore those things. Even worse when they often don't consider the problems problems but 'design defects' ie it doesn't work intuitively or how it 'should' but it was programmed wrong so it isn't a bug and we don't HAVE to fix it.

I play because I do still enjoy aspects of it but I don't like seeing my enjoyment 'ruined' or 'tainted' with crap that interferes or breaks that for no logical reason or done for what seems like silly short sighted goals. I'm also not going to walk away from something I paid for until my time runs out or I really don't 'get' anything 'good' out of it. I'm not there yet, I also still 'hope', though much less as times goes on, that CCP will 'fix' the game.

Rage quitting is not how I will end my character's 'careers' until I do leave I'll keep trying to push CCP through discussion and calling out their BS as I see it. If all the 'unhappy' people moved on there wouldn't be as many players in the game, as many if not all us, were unhappy trying to figure our way around the game when we started.



I wouldn't say "love it or leave it". Just people rage about all the negatives of a game yet continue to play. It seems that a lot of the time they forget about all the good things that keep them playing the game when they post on the forums (this isn't really directed at you). It's great to add suggestions, but it seems lately that people are apparently paying (sometimes multiple times) to play a game they loathe. Personally, when I stop enjoying a game, I quietly unsub and look for something else. If people are unhappy, it might be good to look at the side of the game that keeps them playing, as focusing on the negative can be tiring.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.07.07 10:19:00 - [8]
 

I agree some people are raging and giving no credit to CCP but that is to be expected when they see they are being ignored and/or feel the game is going down the path to ruin. Just as there are people who will troll those with legitimate grievances there will be people that damn CCP to hell and everything they do. That might be because they feel the only way they can be 'heard' is to be so vitriolic in their message or just to counter the 'CCP is awesome™' crowd.

CCP made a great game anyone playing it saw that at some point and if they don't seem to have that feeling anymore or in their posts it is by and large because they see it getting ruined. These people may be on their way out, subs running out/etc or they may be in a holding patter of training skills to see what comes but are still angry about various issues that go unresolved.

When you are complaining about something it doesn't help your point to say 'but they did this and this right' it softens your message that X is wrong or the wrong direction and you are upset/angry about it.

Khamelean
Posted - 2011.07.07 10:25:00 - [9]
 

The real reason why CCP is selling vanity items for $$... is for the $$!

Shhh, don't tell anyone, it's a secret :)

Digital Messiah
Gallente
N7 Corporation
PandaMonium.
Posted - 2011.07.07 10:29:00 - [10]
 

I have seen other companies run MMO's much smoother. But than again, I can't think of a single one that wouldn't turn this into world of sameness with instant reward systems. So be happy CCP although a smaller and less quick to improve things sorta company. Is at least keeping the game hardcore in some aspects.

Enlai Huan
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.07 10:34:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Kerrisone
I agree some people are raging and giving no credit to CCP but that is to be expected when they see they are being ignored and/or feel the game is going down the path to ruin. Just as there are people who will troll those with legitimate grievances there will be people that damn CCP to hell and everything they do. That might be because they feel the only way they can be 'heard' is to be so vitriolic in their message or just to counter the 'CCP is awesome™' crowd.

CCP made a great game anyone playing it saw that at some point and if they don't seem to have that feeling anymore or in their posts it is by and large because they see it getting ruined. These people may be on their way out, subs running out/etc or they may be in a holding patter of training skills to see what comes but are still angry about various issues that go unresolved.

When you are complaining about something it doesn't help your point to say 'but they did this and this right' it softens your message that X is wrong or the wrong direction and you are upset/angry about it.


I strongly disagree with that statement. Criticism is often taken better if you point out what they did correctly and suggesting how they can improve what they messed up on.

I see complaining on forums as a waste of time. Most companies will look at hard numbers instead of forum posts to determine how to continue, as people posting in the forum are a loud minority of the player base. It is just a way to get attention from other like minded posters or trolls, not the company.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.07.07 16:00:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Enlai Huan
Originally by: Kerrisone
I agree some people are raging and giving no credit to CCP but that is to be expected when they see they are being ignored and/or feel the game is going down the path to ruin. Just as there are people who will troll those with legitimate grievances there will be people that damn CCP to hell and everything they do. That might be because they feel the only way they can be 'heard' is to be so vitriolic in their message or just to counter the 'CCP is awesome™' crowd.

CCP made a great game anyone playing it saw that at some point and if they don't seem to have that feeling anymore or in their posts it is by and large because they see it getting ruined. These people may be on their way out, subs running out/etc or they may be in a holding patter of training skills to see what comes but are still angry about various issues that go unresolved.

When you are complaining about something it doesn't help your point to say 'but they did this and this right' it softens your message that X is wrong or the wrong direction and you are upset/angry about it.


I strongly disagree with that statement. Criticism is often taken better if you point out what they did correctly and suggesting how they can improve what they messed up on.

I see complaining on forums as a waste of time. Most companies will look at hard numbers instead of forum posts to determine how to continue, as people posting in the forum are a loud minority of the player base. It is just a way to get attention from other like minded posters or trolls, not the company.


You are aware that the kind of feedback you are talking about goes on all the time in the testing forums where it is so often ignored?

By the time it makes it to tranquility the time for being polite is pretty much over, ESPECIALLY if the same issues warned/reported are coming up.

When people don't listen you rarely gain ANYTHING by being nice about it yet AGAIN, having done so ALREADY only to be IGNORED.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.07.07 16:45:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Enlai Huan
Originally by: Kerrisone
Originally by: Enlai Huan
I dont get why it's so hard for people to understand that companies will try to make money. In fact, that is their primary function.


I don't understand why people can't reason that eve makes money, so much money it funds not only EVE but DUST, WOD and turns a profit for all involved.

Where do people say CCP shouldn't make money, no where but a standard troll response is 'they aren't a charity', and other forms of 'this is a business'. Maybe they could have tried fixing the game and making it great instead of filled with bits of things that are okay, good, or crap cause they kept jamming stuff in w/o balancing it, updating them or 'iterating' on them.

Nope, the only way to make money and therefore make eve better, another troll gem, is to chase new subscriptions and of course anything that might bring more money in like mt, etc.



Reading almost any MMO forum gives you the idea that players get gererally ****ed when the company makes money.

Sure, there will be bugs in any game (try and find an MMO without one). If so unhappy with the game, why play? I'd figured people so unhappy would have moved on.


Oh yeah because CCP is just giving us the game for free....
Oh wait no they aren't we pay them for a service.

That's the ****ing point here. This isn't some free to play crap where the majority of the players are freeloaders whining that paying players get better stuff. This is a premium subscription based MMO. There are no freeloaderse everyone who plays pays in some way or another. Even in the case of players who simply buy plex for isk someone had to pay for that play time in the first place.

Your argument would have some merit if this were a free to play game but it isn't so your argument is stupid.

NO ONE IS ASKING FOR CHARITY HERE WE PAY FOR THE ****ING SERVICE.

DrDan21
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.07.07 17:26:00 - [14]
 

Good to know your CCP's accountant

Kalestia Barrak
Posted - 2011.07.07 17:34:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: noobitussin
is because revenue is not climbing. Subs are not increasing and with the onset of new MMOs, those profit margins may start going red. Subs will not be growing because eve is marketed to/or has a reputation for catering to the hardcore gamer.



I agree.

I fully understand the need to advertise in order to bring in new blood and expand the player base. This is good.

However, I question CCP's ability to retain said players after they've joined. The "sandbox" is great and all, for the few who can really take advantage of it. 0.0 and null sec remain either unacceptable or undesirable to most players in the game as is. That's not to say it's not enjoyable for those who are there, but despite it's impressiveness, CCP has yet to persuade any sizable portion of EVE's population base away from high-sec.

Simply put, the "sandbox" portion of EVE has too many risks and requires too much effort for most, while high-sec is too dull and under-developed to attract and maintain large numbers.

CCP's push to bring avatars into EVE and therefor appeal to the "doll-making" MMO crowd is no doubt a wise long-term move, but it seems wasted in it's limited scope. High system requirements for what is essentially walking around in an apartment with no social interaction is going to be a hard sell.

Again, I really wish the development team would see beyond a 6 month release cycle and really take the time to polish and develop a feature instead of chasing after subscriber spikes. Perhaps if time was spent on really making a polished expansion, CCP would be able to sell a true addition to gameplay instead of another gimmick.

I still maintain that EVE needs true content, like most other MMOs, and that it can add such without abandoning it's sandbox-style play. Missions, arcs, exploration, expeditions, and the like all provide an excellent, dynamic framework, and yet each has been abandoned in turn.

I am left wondering what kind of game CCP wants EVE to be. If it wants to retain it's place as a niche title with a relativally small subscriber base, then it need only continue it's current path. But if it wants to broaden its appeal and really build that huge universe it dreams about, then they will need to add much more than a new interface for ship spinning, nor can they pretend to offload all world-building onto the players. They will need to help build this as well.

There's no reason that CCP can't exist as both a sandbox and have features that are more representational of traditional MMOs. In fact, they have all of the tools needed to do it. As I listed above, there are fantastic tools for creating story and providing content. And no mechanics need to be (nor should be) changed.


Duvida
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.07.07 17:47:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Enlai Huan
I dont get why it's so hard for people to understand that companies will try to make money. In fact, that is their primary function.


You still want sustainability in the money making function. Making 2 cents now by cashing out the ability to make 1 dollar every month is not a successful money-making strategy for long.

Siena Petrucis
Caldari
Jelly Kings
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.07.07 18:06:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: noobitussin
These people just wants to log in for a bit,jump into a ship and maybe go pew pew with some aliens or each other. In eve, the casual person can hardly do that.


I disagree, Eve is the game which works best for casual gamers. It does not matter if you play 80 hours a week or just 8 hours - advancement is the same. In Wow or other games, character advancement is activity based. The casual player with quickly fall behind because he does not have time to grind skill points, standings or whatever.

Marek Gelekk
Posted - 2011.07.07 18:10:00 - [18]
 

Confirming i'm getting bored with these threads.

CCP is a company with investors etc.etc. They need to keep growing. Whiners should grow up.

Kalestia Barrak
Posted - 2011.07.07 18:35:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Marek Gelekk
Confirming i'm getting bored with these threads.

CCP is a company with investors etc.etc. They need to keep growing. Whiners should grow up.


I don't think he was disagreeing on that point. Rather, the suggestion was to make the game more appealing, rather than simply resorting to MT.

In the former, the game attracts a larger playerbase in addition to providing benefits for current subscribers. The MT model simply pulls in more from existing players.

TrimethylChromiumdioxide
Caldari
Infinatech
Posted - 2011.07.07 21:21:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Enlai Huan



I wouldn't say "love it or leave it". Just people rage about all the negatives of a game yet continue to play. It seems that a lot of the time they forget about all the good things that keep them playing the game when they post on the forums (this isn't really directed at you). It's great to add suggestions, but it seems lately that people are apparently paying (sometimes multiple times) to play a game they loathe. Personally, when I stop enjoying a game, I quietly unsub and look for something else. If people are unhappy, it might be good to look at the side of the game that keeps them playing, as focusing on the negative can be tiring.


True. However I do think the rage on the forums is in large part an animal that CCP themselves nourished throughout the years. When I first came to this game in 2005, I thought, man, these forums are full of hate. And I came from the SOE forums which were at that time exploding with the NGE protests and mass unsubscriptions.

That, however, doesn't completely address your statement. I think some people are quietly unsubbing, but the chance to vent, sometimes quite repeatedly, their unhappiness about the situation to others is (at least from my perspective) oddly satisfying. It's not productive, I agree. It will have little to no impact. And I will stop when my subscription runs out. Until then, just bear with me (and others like me) while we work out some negative frustration about where the game has changed course to, before we leave.

I think that's as politely (and un-evelike) as I can answer you LaughingLaughingLaughing.


Jackstah Whoosaa
DohMinion
Posted - 2011.07.08 07:04:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Enlai Huan
I dont get why it's so hard for people to understand that companies will try to make money. In fact, that is their primary function.


^ herp derp ^


Its is not about them making money.it is about HOW they try to make it > >

Lord Fuxaton
Minmatar
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2011.07.08 07:31:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Lord Fuxaton on 08/07/2011 07:39:23
Edited by: Lord Fuxaton on 08/07/2011 07:33:20
The easiest way to solve this problem is a simple fix people won't like. CCP has to make the game more appealing to casuals; how is this done exactly?

I propose a few things to make the game more profitable.

#1 Increase insurance for players who are under 6 months.
#2 Decrease the time it takes to reach 5 million skill points; should take about a month; which is how long it takes to level 1-85 in wow.
#3 Force people to learn how to PVP; the tutorial should make new players join factions; and also force them into fleets to fight each other; you could even have a small skirmish battlefield for new players only; which let's them fight other new players.
#4 Allow new players to purchase characters; and items; from veteran players with CASH.
#5 Incorporate an in game macro system; similar to hbot; or other illegal 3rd party programs everyone from Russia; and China are using; botting will increase subscriptions; and only properly inflate the economy to the point where no one ever has to risk losing anything; because they just set autopilot and run missions.
#6 Make the game fun; this can be done a few ways; I propose a new camera setting called "Micheal Bay" when enabled your camera while in combat becomes more like the eve online movies; or "hollywood" jumping form different ships; lots of explosions; lots of **** going on to keep the average flourided instant gratification people interested; you can also include Adderall in the eve online box.
#7 Add strip clubs to the eve online stations; I'm talking real strip clubs; that you need to register your IDENTITY on the website to enter; when you enter you will find webcam *****s; which CCP has payed to do live camera shows; such as dildos; beads; 3 ways; gang bangs; bukake etc.

Why will this work? It's the same way goonfleet attracted so many people; they made the game fun. New players to goonfleet where given ships; isk; propaganda; entertainment on teamspeak; etc. If you can make the new player experience like to goonfleet experience; people will stick around.

These are my idea's vote for me in the next CSM election, thank you.

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.08 07:40:00 - [23]
 

I'm pretty sure the future EvE will cater to your needs very well as long as you have some axtra cash to spend.

Stick aroundWink


 

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