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Liteshow
Caldari
A Lite in the Darkness
Posted - 2011.08.07 20:55:00 - [61]
 

Good to see some familiar faces in the age-old "CVA R Pie-rats" threads.

*waves at Conlin and Suitonia, and even Tigerfish*

Anywho, having been bumped back and forth on both sides of the CVA line during the end of the first(?) CVA reign in Provi, I can both support and speak poorly of both sides' tactics.

As carebear that lived in Provi, I've commanded parts of the provi-blob fleets, whilst being popping and being popped by neutrals that should have been red, and vice-versa.

There is no perfect system, but the "proprietary" NRDS system CVA uses got my arse in the crosshairs in 0.0, and that's saying a lot!

Tigerfish Torpedo
Underworld Protection Agency
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.08.08 08:52:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Liteshow
Good to see some familiar faces in the age-old "CVA R Pie-rats" threads.

*waves at Conlin and Suitonia, and even Tigerfish*


*Waves back at Liteshow*

Well, you know I can't resist joining a debate regarding my oldest adversary! Well, any debate that carries legitimacy and weight of course. Trolling, for the sake of it, isn't really my thing, you understand.

Tiger.

Punx Evangeline
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.08.08 11:56:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Tigerfish Torpedo
Trolling, for the sake of it, isn't really my thing, you understand.



*Giggles*

You always did have a good sense of humor Tiger.

-Eva

Tigerfish Torpedo
Underworld Protection Agency
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.08.08 12:08:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Punx Evangeline
You always did have a good sense of humour Tiger.


Thank you, Eva. I choose to take that as a compliment.

Granted, occasionally, perhaps, I troll for the sake of it! You can usually tell when I'm in that kind of mood, as I'll usually just rant about spelling and grammar.

That said, some posts actually deserve to be trolled!

Tigerfish.

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.08.09 10:51:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Codo Yagari on 09/08/2011 11:00:28

Originally by: Kaida Mato
If NBSI is so Evil then why does CVA and Friends have NBSI allies? If NBSI is the True Mark of a Terrorist and Pirate then why does CVA endore blueing such entities? :/ CVA just blue whoever they feel, i remember the time they had the Evil Morsus Mihi Blue and they shot down other CVA blues and CVA did nothing, instead CVA said "deal with it, not our problem" when it was :D CVA will never learn :)


Afaik (and Ive been observing them for the last 3 years or so), CVA doesnt have anyone who is NBSI in Amarrian space + Providence blue, or even neutral. In fact they are RED. Yes, I would go as far as saying all of them. However, there has at times been non agression agreements made with NBSI forces, and for this I have no comment. There has been times when entities who practise NBSI has been set blue, but only if they agreed to NRDS and the CVA standings in Amarr and Providence space. CVA really never cared what you did outside this sphere. At least this is what I know, I may be mistaken, Im not even a CVA member.

However, yet again it surprises me to see the sources these accusations come from. During the time of you writing this post you yourself was in a "new type of alliance, one bred not of greed and ISK, but of want of destruction." according to that alliance's own bio. Yet again, if it wasn't for the fact that it is so sad an occurance, it would be completely laughable how pirates and other NBSI scum who live only for the destruction of others to accuse CVA of being criminal for perhaps not being perfect. It is like the yellow plague accusing the cold of being a bad and evil disease that has to go away. L O L Just when are you going to stop it?

Conlin
Gallente
LangToun
Posted - 2011.08.09 14:18:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari
Edited by: Codo Yagari on 09/08/2011 11:00:28

Originally by: Kaida Mato
If NBSI is so Evil then why does CVA and Friends have NBSI allies? If NBSI is the True Mark of a Terrorist and Pirate then why does CVA endore blueing such entities? :/ CVA just blue whoever they feel, i remember the time they had the Evil Morsus Mihi Blue and they shot down other CVA blues and CVA did nothing, instead CVA said "deal with it, not our problem" when it was :D CVA will never learn :)


Afaik (and Ive been observing them for the last 3 years or so), CVA doesnt have anyone who is NBSI in Amarrian space + Providence blue, or even neutral. In fact they are RED. Yes, I would go as far as saying all of them. However, there has at times been non agression agreements made with NBSI forces, and for this I have no comment. There has been times when entities who practise NBSI has been set blue, but only if they agreed to NRDS and the CVA standings in Amarr and Providence space. CVA really never cared what you did outside this sphere. At least this is what I know, I may be mistaken, Im not even a CVA member.

However, yet again it surprises me to see the sources these accusations come from. During the time of you writing this post you yourself was in a "new type of alliance, one bred not of greed and ISK, but of want of destruction." according to that alliance's own bio. Yet again, if it wasn't for the fact that it is so sad an occurance, it would be completely laughable how pirates and other NBSI scum who live only for the destruction of others to accuse CVA of being criminal for perhaps not being perfect. It is like the yellow plague accusing the cold of being a bad and evil disease that has to go away. L O L Just when are you going to stop it?


You may not be CVA as of now , but your previous employment states otherwise , and that in fact you did serve with CVA . So ....
to deny in your communique that you are in fact CVA ,whilst spouting so called knowledge of their current & previous standings . Leaves us all to question your word .

Defend CVA's actions in Derelick when they attacked nuetral corps & alliances in the name of the Amarrian empire , didn't make their NRDS stance look good at the time .

Finally Mr Yagari , don't preach when trying to hide the true fact you are in fact ex CVA , and we will stop when CVA's preaching on NRDS holds any grounds Wink

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.09 19:27:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Lyn Farel on 09/08/2011 19:27:15
You are being a bit unfair, Mr Conlin, as myself was in the past part of the CVA, and have defended them with all I could afford until recently. Being an ex-CVA does not mean you can not eventually become delusioned about what they do. You can also notice in Mr Yagari words that himself do not want to comment on their NBSI allies.

I personnally think their leadership still has the spirit of what made the alliance so great in the past, but are not able anymore to see the abuses and absurdities happening in the lower ladder of their own entity.

Conlin
Gallente
LangToun
Posted - 2011.08.10 08:03:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Lyn Farel
Edited by: Lyn Farel on 09/08/2011 19:27:15
You are being a bit unfair, Mr Conlin, as myself was in the past part of the CVA, and have defended them with all I could afford until recently. Being an ex-CVA does not mean you can not eventually become delusioned about what they do. You can also notice in Mr Yagari words that himself do not want to comment on their NBSI allies.

I personnally think their leadership still has the spirit of what made the alliance so great in the past, but are not able anymore to see the abuses and absurdities happening in the lower ladder of their own entity.


Its not unfair for someone as myself to be open about my past & feelings , then to find myself being criticised by someone wishing to hide theirs Smile
Space is a harsh place , be open & honest and people "will" respect you .
Ditch the spin !!.

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.08.11 10:33:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Codo Yagari on 11/08/2011 10:33:46

Originally by: Conlin
Its not unfair for someone as myself to be open about my past & feelings , then to find myself being criticised by someone wishing to hide theirs Smile
Space is a harsh place , be open & honest and people "will" respect you .
Ditch the spin !!.



Uhm, Im not sure where you fantasized up the idea that I wanted to hide my past membership with CVA. No, in fact I am proud of having been a member of one of the greatest contributors to NRDS in the history of EVE. My "I am not even a CVA member" was out of humbleness towards CVA, to show that I do not speak on their behalf. I do not want to appear as someone who puts words in the mouths of others.

Frankly I have never heard of any aggression against civil non-hostile elements (real neutrals) by CVA. Of course it might have taken place. But fact (and a pretty heavy one) still remains that even if it was true, CVA is still 99.99% NRDS (probably more). And as a general thing I'd say that is OK since very few of us are perfect.

Conlin
Gallente
LangToun
Posted - 2011.08.11 16:23:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari
Edited by: Codo Yagari on 11/08/2011 10:33:46

Originally by: Conlin
Its not unfair for someone as myself to be open about my past & feelings , then to find myself being criticised by someone wishing to hide theirs Smile
Space is a harsh place , be open & honest and people "will" respect you .
Ditch the spin !!.



Uhm, Im not sure where you fantasized up the idea that I wanted to hide my past membership with CVA. No, in fact I am proud of having been a member of one of the greatest contributors to NRDS in the history of EVE. My "I am not even a CVA member" was out of humbleness towards CVA, to show that I do not speak on their behalf. I do not want to appear as someone who puts words in the mouths of others.

Frankly I have never heard of any aggression against civil non-hostile elements (real neutrals) by CVA. Of course it might have taken place. But fact (and a pretty heavy one) still remains that even if it was true, CVA is still 99.99% NRDS (probably more). And as a general thing I'd say that is OK since very few of us are perfect.


Uhm , you defend CVA , then categorically deny being CVA , yet you have a long history with them .
You do not want to talk for them , but have a lot to say for their standings policy on NRDS , and more importantly wouldnt it be wiser to be honest about your previous employment before asking people not to attack CVA on NRDS ?.
And the Derelick campaign on Nuetrals did happen but 2 years previous on pos's that were in the way of their expansion out of Providence .

Kithrus
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.11 17:58:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Conlin
Originally by: Codo Yagari
Edited by: Codo Yagari on 11/08/2011 10:33:46

Originally by: Conlin
Its not unfair for someone as myself to be open about my past & feelings , then to find myself being criticised by someone wishing to hide theirs Smile
Space is a harsh place , be open & honest and people "will" respect you .
Ditch the spin !!.



Uhm, Im not sure where you fantasized up the idea that I wanted to hide my past membership with CVA. No, in fact I am proud of having been a member of one of the greatest contributors to NRDS in the history of EVE. My "I am not even a CVA member" was out of humbleness towards CVA, to show that I do not speak on their behalf. I do not want to appear as someone who puts words in the mouths of others.

Frankly I have never heard of any aggression against civil non-hostile elements (real neutrals) by CVA. Of course it might have taken place. But fact (and a pretty heavy one) still remains that even if it was true, CVA is still 99.99% NRDS (probably more). And as a general thing I'd say that is OK since very few of us are perfect.


Uhm , you defend CVA , then categorically deny being CVA , yet you have a long history with them .
You do not want to talk for them , but have a lot to say for their standings policy on NRDS , and more importantly wouldn't it be wiser to be honest about your previous employment before asking people not to attack CVA on NRDS ?.
And the Derelict campaign on Neutrals did happen but 2 years previous on pos's that were in the way of their expansion out of Providence .


I always find in interesting in any intellectual debat (which rapidly become less intellectual for it) people will point at a cause and say 'Here see they did <insert terrible thing here> and therefor they are evil or they show their true colors.'

As much a a devils advocate can be a healthy thing people with an over does on the propaganda fueled coffee tend to take the few flaws in a gem and highlight it. Instead of reminding those around them that true flawless gems are a scientific impossibility.

My point?

CVA goal is a noble and proud one with the good of everyone in mind. Do mistakes happen? Sure. Does that mean that the goal stops being noble? No. It means that a few people who have made mistakes need to be brought to justice one way or another.

I hope this takes root.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.11 20:41:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Lyn Farel on 11/08/2011 20:42:24
Then I suggest you, lord Kithrus, to take a new look at the current CVA and see it for what it is. CVA did mistakes here and there in the past. Now, it is a not about mistakes, it is about a total lack of ethics and an utter confusion in the people applying KOS status and NRDS principles.

CVA has only become a pragmatic entity allying itself with NBSI and pirates for the sake of realpolitik, going even further by considering to put fervent amarrian NRDS partisans on their KOS list for the simple reason the latter dared have issues with their so called NBSI and outlawed allies. This kind of absurdities have only been avoided (only in the case I speak of) because the CVA leader Leo D'green still has enough good sense and has retained a strong sense of the past ideals that made CVA great.

I urge you to open your eyes, instead of using pathetic excuses like "nobody is perfect" and hiding behind your delusions. Nobody is perfect, but only to certain limits.

Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.12 00:32:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Lyn Farel
You can also notice in Mr Yagari words that himself do not want to comment on their NBSI allies.


He spoke about it at length, actually. And to my knowledge, accurately. CVA does not align itself with forces who practice NBSI in Amarrian space or Providence.

I'm genuinely curious what beef Knighthood of the Merciful Crown has with CVA. Is it just the standard tensions between Imperial Crusade-aligned corporations and CVA, or something else?

Michael Bross
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.08.12 06:04:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Garreck
CVA does not align itself with forces who practice NBSI in Amarrian space or Providence.
Quote:


That would be with the exception of Sev3rance right? I mean they've only been caught pirating in the Bleak Lands and Domain low sec a few dozen times.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.12 12:31:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Lyn Farel
You can also notice in Mr Yagari words that himself do not want to comment on their NBSI allies.


He spoke about it at length, actually. And to my knowledge, accurately. CVA does not align itself with forces who practice NBSI in Amarrian space or Providence.

I'm genuinely curious what beef Knighthood of the Merciful Crown has with CVA. Is it just the standard tensions between Imperial Crusade-aligned corporations and CVA, or something else?


This is exactly the issue I am talking about. The people at CVA's head is not even aware of what the people managing your KOS requests and NRDS policies application is doing, and what is happening in the lower ladder or on the field.

The Knighthood, which has shared a mutual blue standing with the CVA until recently (yes, this has been removed by our leadership), was about to be considered KOS for the simple reason that CORIM, your NBSI outlaw allies, who are attacking almost everything in the warzone area, demanded so. Fortunately this was avoided because executor Leo D'green intervened. This is why he was also offended to hear me speak about "banana republics methods", for which I apologize in any case, but this does not make them less worth of consideration.

Altaen
Lutinari Syndicate
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.08.14 00:16:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari
Edited by: Codo Yagari on 11/08/2011 10:33:46

Originally by: Conlin
Its not unfair for someone as myself to be open about my past & feelings , then to find myself being criticised by someone wishing to hide theirs Smile
Space is a harsh place , be open & honest and people "will" respect you .
Ditch the spin !!.



Uhm, Im not sure where you fantasized up the idea that I wanted to hide my past membership with CVA. No, in fact I am proud of having been a member of one of the greatest contributors to NRDS in the history of EVE. My "I am not even a CVA member" was out of humbleness towards CVA, to show that I do not speak on their behalf. I do not want to appear as someone who puts words in the mouths of others.

Frankly I have never heard of any aggression against civil non-hostile elements (real neutrals) by CVA. Of course it might have taken place. But fact (and a pretty heavy one) still remains that even if it was true, CVA is still 99.99% NRDS (probably more). And as a general thing I'd say that is OK since very few of us are perfect.


Codo, I've always found it remarkable that you hold the destruction of spacecraft belonging to impossibly wealthy immortals to be a greater moral issue than the enslavement and often torture of mortal human beings. And you are entirely blind if you truly believe that CVA are not blue with, and cooperate regularly with NBSI pirate organizations.

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.08.16 09:08:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Conlin
Uhm , you defend CVA , then categorically deny being CVA , yet you have a long history with them .
You do not want to talk for them , but have a lot to say for their standings policy on NRDS , and more importantly wouldnt it be wiser to be honest about your previous employment before asking people not to attack CVA on NRDS ?.
And the Derelick campaign on Nuetrals did happen but 2 years previous on pos's that were in the way of their expansion out of Providence .


I defend CVA when it comes to upholding the NRDS banner, I deny being CVA myself, I do have a previous history with them. I have never denied any of this, nor made any attempt to hide it. You say that perhaps it would be wiser to be honest about my previous employment. I ask you to show me where I have ever been dishonest about it. I am proud to having been a member of CVA, for the single reason of them standing up for NRDS. I dont understand who's whispering in your ear that I'm not completely open about this. Its certainly nothing you're picking up from my posts, I can give you my word on that.

There may be incidents that are black stains on the history of NRDS CVA, I have seen one or two. But that does not change the fact that from my experience at least 99% of what they do is still good, and that's all I can speak of. I weigh good against bad, and when it comes to my perception of CVA, they're very good.

Originally by: Altaen
Codo, I've always found it remarkable that you hold the destruction of spacecraft belonging to impossibly wealthy immortals to be a greater moral issue than the enslavement and often torture of mortal human beings. And you are entirely blind if you truly believe that CVA are not blue with, and cooperate regularly with NBSI pirate organizations.


Look, I sympathize with the morals from where you are coming, really. However, there are billions of issues and conflicts within EVE. My main desire is to try and work for the increased level of civility in this galaxy. If I were to discard anyone that does not line up perfectly with what I deem to be good, I fear I would find myself to be veeery lonely indeed, considering there is probably not a single individual in this galaxy that agrees completely with what I think is the proper way of things. Therefore I have made a decision. If I deem an entity to be more than 50% good in their actions, I will do my best to retain a good relationship with them. Any entity that practises sincere NRDS is something I admire strongly, and as you probably know me and my alliance the Yulai Federation went through great lengths and attempts in maintaining the +5 blue standings we had with you, something we worked with to achieve, and something we cherished since you are indeed also practising NRDS. Hopefully you are familiar with the slavery policies that are maintained within my alliance. It was indeed a shame that when the Yulai Federation aquired sovereignty in Providence this was too much for Electus Matari, and despite our best efforts and diplomatic attempts, you decided to set us red, and we had to set you orange in pure self defence.

I have known incidents where CVA has made temporary cease fires and agreements with pirates in order to gain advantage on the battlefield, on both tactical and strategic levels. This is the reason I left CVA in the first place. However, this still leaves 99% of CVA dealings that I find to be good. Like I said, I dont believe anyone around here is perfect.

[ continued ... ]

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.08.16 09:10:00 - [78]
 

When it comes to the old Amarr-Minmatar conflict I am of the belief that this is not something that cannot be settled with military means. Instead both these sides would do good remembering the origins of all of us, stand together and fight the true menace and real issue of this galaxy, the menace of NBSI and piracy. ALL NRDS groups truly interested in civilization should stand together and fight this menace. It's about making priorities and seeing what the important issues are, laying smaller issues to the side for the benefit of the greater good. I hope you can read between the lines to see of what I am talking here. Now, regarding the main topic of this thread, and the reason I raised my voice here, as I have pointed out before; having semi- and fulltime pirates attacking CVA or other NRDS organizations for perhaps not being perfect in their NRDS execution is and will continue to be a joke of the largest magnitude, and they really cannot say anything until they themselves decide to embrace NRDS. Then perhaps their complaining can be taken more serious.

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.08.16 09:42:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Arkady Sadik on 16/08/2011 09:46:12
Originally by: Codo Yagari
Instead both these sides would do good remembering the origins of all of us, stand together and fight the true menace and real issue of this galaxy, the menace of NBSI and piracy.


I find the idea that some capsuleers shooting some other capsuleers being "the true menace and real issue of this galaxy" above a third of my people in slavery together with a hostile Empire threatening to invade our homes and take more of us into slavery a bit weird. I take it you are some kind of post-humanist who stopped caring for anyone but the "new god-race"?

Luckily, this is not a black-and-white case for us, so we can happily work against both.

Originally by: Codo Yagari
It's about making priorities and seeing what the important issues are, laying smaller issues to the side for the benefit of the greater good.


Indeed, indeed...

Originally by: Codo Yagari
I hope you can read between the lines to see of what I am talking here.


I can't. Could you elaborate?

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.08.16 10:01:00 - [80]
 

Elaboration:

I'm saying the major alliances such as Goonswarm Federation, Shadow of xXDeathXx, Test Alliance, Intrepid Crossing, Solar Wing, Morsus Mihi, Raiden., NC., Against All Authorities, etc etc etc, consisting in probably 90% (probably more) of the New Eden affectable space population, ALL NBSI/pirate entities. This is for me the major concern and the biggest threat, and I am sure any objective visioned balanced NRDS pilot would agree.

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.08.16 10:07:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari
affectable space population


What is "affectable space population", exactly?

If the Amarr Militia takes a system and returns a few million of my people into slavery, are those people not "affected" because they're not in space?

If people in Providence can dock in peace because their ships are serviced by slaves, are those slaves not "affected"?

Where do you draw the line of who you care for and who not? And why?

Quote:
This is for me the major concern and the biggest threat, and I am sure any objective visioned balanced NRDS pilot would agree.


So someone who disagrees with you is simply not a "visoned balanced NRDS pilot"? I'm not even sure why anyone would want to be that, if it entails stopping to care for anyone but capsuleers.

Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.08.16 10:10:00 - [82]
 

If you have a real desire to change the parts of the New Eden universe that you can change, Im sure you get my point.

I rest my case.

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.08.16 10:13:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari
If you have a real desire to change the parts of the New Eden universe that you can change, Im sure you get my point.


So, anyone who disagrees with you is simply not objective, not balanced, not visioned, and does not have a desire to change parts of New Eden?

Isn't that a bit cheap as an argument?

Ava Starfire
Minmatar
Teraa Matar
Posted - 2011.08.16 10:58:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Arkady Sadik
Originally by: Codo Yagari
If you have a real desire to change the parts of the New Eden universe that you can change, Im sure you get my point.


So, anyone who disagrees with you is simply not objective, not balanced, not visioned, and does not have a desire to change parts of New Eden?

Isn't that a bit cheap as an argument?



Welcome to the Standards and Practices of the whole of the orthodox Empire, Arkady sir, and with them, a great big ol' chunk of CVA and their little brainwashed pets, as shown here. You're with us, or you're wrong!

I applaud him, really. Its hard to follow orders so well, when doing so this blindly.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.16 12:26:00 - [85]
 

This argument has turned into a storm in a kettle. Pointless.

You both fight over different cluster wide issues and plagues, and eventually, defend the same ideals.

Conlin
Gallente
LangToun
Posted - 2011.08.16 16:01:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Codo Yagari
.


I defend CVA when it comes to upholding the NRDS banner, I deny being CVA myself, I do have a previous history with them. I have never denied any of this, nor made any attempt to hide it. You say that perhaps it would be wiser to be honest about my previous employment. I ask you to show me where I have ever been dishonest about it. I am proud to having been a member of CVA, for the single reason of them standing up for NRDS. I dont understand who's whispering in your ear that I'm not completely open about this. Its certainly nothing you're picking up from my posts, I can give you my word on that.

There may be incidents that are black stains on the history of NRDS CVA, I have seen one or two. But that does not change the fact that from my experience at least 99% of what they do is still good, and that's all I can speak of. I weigh good against bad, and when it comes to my perception of CVA, they're very good.

Originally by: Altaen
Codo, I've always found it remarkable that you hold the destruction of spacecraft belonging to impossibly wealthy immortals to be a greater moral issue than the enslavement and often torture of mortal human beings. And you are entirely blind if you truly believe that CVA are not blue with, and cooperate regularly with NBSI pirate organizations.


Look, I sympathize with the morals from where you are coming, really. However, there are billions of issues and conflicts within EVE. My main desire is to try and work for the increased level of civility in this galaxy. If I were to discard anyone that does not line up perfectly with what I deem to be good, I fear I would find myself to be veeery lonely indeed, considering there is probably not a single individual in this galaxy that agrees completely with what I think is the proper way of things. Therefore I have made a decision. If I deem an entity to be more than 50% good in their actions, I will do my best to retain a good relationship with them. Any entity that practises sincere NRDS is something I admire strongly, and as you probably know me and my alliance the Yulai Federation went through great lengths and attempts in maintaining the +5 blue standings we had with you, something we worked with to achieve, and something we cherished since you are indeed also practising NRDS. Hopefully you are familiar with the slavery policies that are maintained within my alliance. It was indeed a shame that when the Yulai Federation aquired sovereignty in Providence this was too much for Electus Matari, and despite our best efforts and diplomatic attempts, you decided to set us red, and we had to set you orange in pure self defence.

I have known incidents where CVA has made temporary cease fires and agreements with pirates in order to gain advantage on the battlefield, on both tactical and strategic levels. This is the reason I left CVA in the first place. However, this still leaves 99% of CVA dealings that I find to be good. Like I said, I dont believe anyone around here is perfect.

[ continued ... ]


Now thats my point exactly , your first sentence .Ignore the rest of the drivel and lets stick to basics without the bad
habits of spin you picked up from your CVA days .
You defend CVA when it comes to upholding the NRDS Banner , but you yourself have seen black stains , we all have seen black stains . Including those of their allies -7- .
You even left CVA for those black stains , so stick to those principles and dont get yourself entangled in the spin eh .
I must admit to a little chuckle over your statement of CVA making agreements & ceasefires with pirates , the same criticism they made of Ushra'Khan in the war of Unity .

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.08.16 21:20:00 - [87]
 

The fact of the matter is that CVA are not primarily "anti-pirates". They are, first and foremost, a group interested in expanding the Amarrian Empire into zero sec. They uphold some basic civil laws while neglecting others as per the customs of the Empire. And they will make compromises in all their secondary activities (e.g. anti-piracy) when it is benefical to their primary goal.

This is neither confusing nor surprising, and most certainly not something we can hold "against CVA." (This thread is silly, by the way.)

It gets weird when people start a zealous crusade on the forums about how CVA are the god-sent defenders of the weak and destroyers of NBSI, and ask other groups to ignore all their primary goals to accept CVA's primary goal so we can all focus on our secondary goals.

This is not sensible, ignores the reality of CVA, and strikes me as quite a bit naive.

Conlin
Gallente
LangToun
Posted - 2011.08.17 03:09:00 - [88]
 

Arkady , my experience with CVA goes a lot further than your own , and one thing above all else is that CVA
even from the early days did state as being anti pirate .
CVA lost its way and fell apart because it forgot its fundamental values that were set out from the beginning , and being anti pirate was one of those values , I have years of experience fighting CVA .
And the old CVA I respected . This CVA has lost its way .


Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.08.17 11:10:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Arkady Sadik
The fact of the matter is that CVA are not primarily "anti-pirates". They are, first and foremost, a group interested in expanding the Amarrian Empire into zero sec. They uphold some basic civil laws while neglecting others as per the customs of the Empire. And they will make compromises in all their secondary activities (e.g. anti-piracy) when it is benefical to their primary goal.

This is neither confusing nor surprising, and most certainly not something we can hold "against CVA." (This thread is silly, by the way.)

It gets weird when people start a zealous crusade on the forums about how CVA are the god-sent defenders of the weak and destroyers of NBSI, and ask other groups to ignore all their primary goals to accept CVA's primary goal so we can all focus on our secondary goals.

This is not sensible, ignores the reality of CVA, and strikes me as quite a bit naive.


This was probably, true, but only at the beginning. The foundation principles, layered by PIE Inc at the beginning, are irrelevant when we consider the achievements done after. The true goal of CVA was to open a nullsec region to civilization, and they built more than 50 outposts to make this real.

I have seen what were the real policies and priorities. The everyday life. It was NRDS and settlement. Be it to expand the Amarr Empire in nullsec or the Federation, whatever. The result was the same. Compromises with discutable or despicable elements were not part of their ethics in that time.

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.08.17 11:30:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: Kazzzi on 17/08/2011 11:30:51
Originally by: Codo Yagari
Elaboration:

I'm saying the major alliances such as Goonswarm Federation, Shadow of xXDeathXx, Test Alliance, Intrepid Crossing, Solar Wing, Morsus Mihi, Raiden., NC., Against All Authorities, etc etc etc, consisting in probably 90% (probably more) of the New Eden affectable space population, ALL NBSI/pirate entities. This is for me the major concern and the biggest threat, and I am sure any objective visioned balanced NRDS pilot would agree.


Did you enjoy their speech?



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