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Portmanteau
Gallente
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:00:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear


All the benefits haven't even made themselves known yet, so I don't see how that particular debate is done.

What I mean is, we're only now seeing the impact the CQ is having on Flying in Space, and will only get a clearer picture in the months to come. Things like the effect it's having on new player retention, and perhaps most importantly corporation joining, that stuff takes a while to show up in the data.




*cough* making skills not apply to ships, taking up dev time that should be spent fixing the UNBELIEVABLE AMOUNT of broken or half finished features *cough*

raker
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:02:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
I can't speak to either point guys, sorry. Not my department. Sad

Really, I'm just trying to say one very specific thing: there are flow-on benefits to FiS from CQ like increases in new player retention and corp recruitment. Early indicators are good, and we're looking forward to releasing a full picture once we have one.


Maybe im getting old and cynical, but it appears to me that CCP is focusing on "new player retention "

Fact is the next few expansions will be for the CQ whether we like it or not


Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:11:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: jackaloped


You think I have serious issues that I don’t see the potential? Lets look at the potential you describe:

Poker: I don’t want to play poker when I log in to eve. If I did I would play poker instead of logging in to eve. Will I play poker for isk? No not when lots of people will likely be cheating and scamming people.

Talking to another player face to face “kinda”: Well you can see their avatar and type in local or probably do something like they do in second life. Again pretty uninspiring stuff.

Furnish your own place: Again second life. Not inspiring. How long are you going to look at those alien fish?

Yeah what you describe is really a “ton” of stuff incarna will bring.

And FIS is being abandoned for all this ton of stuff.

You can talk about eve existing for years all you want. But eve has existed for 8 years as a fis game. It hasn’t existed for that long as a game where you play dress up, walk around, and look at imaginary fish tanks.


I live in low sec. Shooting dudes is what I do. The last 4 expansions have been worthless to me. Captains closet, Space raids, sim city, and the 0.0 changes don't effect what I do, but I don't drag my victim complex all over the forums. Every time they design or work on a feature that isn't what a particular player has an interest in, that person could scream "they aren't adding anything meaningful!" And they often do scream just that. You may not want incarna, but a lot of people do.

Unfortunately, Even the people that do want incarna, aren't getting it. Or at least aren't getting any meaningful part of it. And it looks like even after :18 months: of dev attention it still won't be anywhere close to complete.

Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:11:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Herping yourDerp
Originally by: Ezra Vouland
Im not sure why people want the old hangar back. Maybe they are to stupid to realize the UI around the outside is the same.

dock
without the keyboard open your cargo in less then 2 seconds
you cant
your a moron.


ALT + C

Why in the hell would you absolutely need to open cargo without using the keyboard?

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:12:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: jackaloped
Originally by: Ranger 1
EVE is about creating a science fiction universe, not strictly about space ships.

You do need to acknowledge this one simple fact, whether your agree with it or not.

That's the way it is.



Ok I will acknowledge that.

But now its time you acknowledge that all the fun parts of a science fiction universe other than flying in a space ship has been set aside for dust.

No guns for eve. No hovercrafts with rockets, nope eve just gets walking in stations. Walk walk walk and walk some more. Oh and buy a nice handbag and then walk some more.


Pretty good reply, and yes I will acknowledge that some fun elements of a science fiction universe will be focused on DUST instead of EVE.

However, I think that is due in large part to technical reasons (among others). The EVE architecture is based around huge volumes of people interacting in a multitude of ways, it does not (unfortunately) lend it's self well to something as detailed as say a FPS type of gameplay when dealing with the volumes of players that could become involved. Even the single person closet we have now is having issues using system resources that will have to be seriously ironed out.

However, that still leaves the door open to a huge volume of "fun" elements that could be strictly Incarna based, or at least have a strong tie to Incarna.

This would include, but not be limited to:

1: An expansion of industry and commerce, specifically catering to items usuable only by avatars.

2: An expansion of agent missions which may contain elements which involve avatars.

3: Contraband and smuggling could be closely tied to Incarna.

4: Gambling could be tied to Incarna.

5: Specialized tools for managing/orchestrating large scale spaceship conflicts/logistics could be created for use with Incarna. By this I mean things that would make sense, such as a command and control room for alliances/corporations that have real time updates of all elements of your fleet. Things that would be too much to keep track of if you were in a ship actively participating in space at the same time.

6: Treaties could require a face to face meeting via Incarna. Meaning a gesture of trust in personally flying into what could be a dangerous area and docking to finalize the agreements would be necessary before a treaty "game mechanic" could be activated (auto blue standings, auto fee's charged for activities in formerly unfriendly area's of space, etc.)

7: Perhaps Incarna could be pivotal to a revamped bounty hunting system that would make the occupation viable and non-exploitable.

8: Many, many aspects of interacting with DUST could be Incarna related, as well as certain aspects of PI.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, but I imagine these as well as many other avenues have been under discussion now that the framework of Incarna is largely complete.

I recognize your point, but these are a few things to consider.

Speaker4 theDead
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:15:00 - [66]
 

This is a surprise? If they rolled it out now, half their playerbase probably wouldn't be able to run it.
Betting another 18 months minimum before they roll out "lagging in stations" Cool


Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:19:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 06/07/2011 20:20:12
Originally by: Mister Smithington
Originally by: jackaloped


You think I have serious issues that I don’t see the potential? Lets look at the potential you describe:

Poker: I don’t want to play poker when I log in to eve. If I did I would play poker instead of logging in to eve. Will I play poker for isk? No not when lots of people will likely be cheating and scamming people.

Talking to another player face to face “kinda”: Well you can see their avatar and type in local or probably do something like they do in second life. Again pretty uninspiring stuff.

Furnish your own place: Again second life. Not inspiring. How long are you going to look at those alien fish?

Yeah what you describe is really a “ton” of stuff incarna will bring.

And FIS is being abandoned for all this ton of stuff.

You can talk about eve existing for years all you want. But eve has existed for 8 years as a fis game. It hasn’t existed for that long as a game where you play dress up, walk around, and look at imaginary fish tanks.


I live in low sec. Shooting dudes is what I do. The last 4 expansions have been worthless to me. Captains closet, Space raids, sim city, and the 0.0 changes don't effect what I do, but I don't drag my victim complex all over the forums. Every time they design or work on a feature that isn't what a particular player has an interest in, that person could scream "they aren't adding anything meaningful!" And they often do scream just that. You may not want incarna, but a lot of people do.

Unfortunately, Even the people that do want incarna, aren't getting it. Or at least aren't getting any meaningful part of it. And it looks like even after :18 months: of dev attention it still won't be anywhere close to complete.


I am hopeful that the three FiS issues that get looked at for major revision are (in no particular order.

1: Low Sec
2: Faction Warfare
3: Sov Mechanics

Low sec in particular needs a direction, a purpose. Resources and industrial capabilities for contraband perhaps that do not exist in high sec or null sec.

This would also give you more targets, of course. Very Happy


San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:28:00 - [68]
 

Blah blah blah,crap expansion offers new players better 'NPE' wouldn't be hard.

Dress the dolly is good and paying real cash for doing it is good because soon you'll be able to cyber with fellow suckers in WiS.

Don't worry about the spaceships game anymore, EvE is about fresh meat with fresh credit cards & an obsession with 3D Avatars to make over.

Yep, sounds great.

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:30:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: jackaloped
Originally by: Ranger 1
EVE is about creating a science fiction universe, not strictly about space ships.

You do need to acknowledge this one simple fact, whether your agree with it or not.

That's the way it is.



Ok I will acknowledge that.

But now its time you acknowledge that all the fun parts of a science fiction universe other than flying in a space ship has been set aside for dust.

No guns for eve. No hovercrafts with rockets, nope eve just gets walking in stations. Walk walk walk and walk some more. Oh and buy a nice handbag and then walk some more.


Pretty good reply, and yes I will acknowledge that some fun elements of a science fiction universe will be focused on DUST instead of EVE.

However, I think that is due in large part to technical reasons (among others). The EVE architecture is based around huge volumes of people interacting in a multitude of ways, it does not (unfortunately) lend it's self well to something as detailed as say a FPS type of gameplay when dealing with the volumes of players that could become involved. Even the single person closet we have now is having issues using system resources that will have to be seriously ironed out.

However, that still leaves the door open to a huge volume of "fun" elements that could be strictly Incarna based, or at least have a strong tie to Incarna.

This would include, but not be limited to:

1: An expansion of industry and commerce, specifically catering to items usuable only by avatars.

2: An expansion of agent missions which may contain elements which involve avatars.

3: Contraband and smuggling could be closely tied to Incarna.

4: Gambling could be tied to Incarna.

5: Specialized tools for managing/orchestrating large scale spaceship conflicts/logistics could be created for use with Incarna. By this I mean things that would make sense, such as a command and control room for alliances/corporations that have real time updates of all elements of your fleet. Things that would be too much to keep track of if you were in a ship actively participating in space at the same time.

6: Treaties could require a face to face meeting via Incarna. Meaning a gesture of trust in personally flying into what could be a dangerous area and docking to finalize the agreements would be necessary before a treaty "game mechanic" could be activated (auto blue standings, auto fee's charged for activities in formerly unfriendly area's of space, etc.)

7: Perhaps Incarna could be pivotal to a revamped bounty hunting system that would make the occupation viable and non-exploitable.

8: Many, many aspects of interacting with DUST could be Incarna related, as well as certain aspects of PI.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, but I imagine these as well as many other avenues have been under discussion now that the framework of Incarna is largely complete.

I recognize your point, but these are a few things to consider.



Ranger 1 you're dreaming dude.

i can't be assed going into details but srsly, you are dreaming.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:34:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: San Severina
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: jackaloped
Originally by: Ranger 1
EVE is about creating a science fiction universe, not strictly about space ships.

You do need to acknowledge this one simple fact, whether your agree with it or not.

That's the way it is.



Ok I will acknowledge that.

But now its time you acknowledge that all the fun parts of a science fiction universe other than flying in a space ship has been set aside for dust.

No guns for eve. No hovercrafts with rockets, nope eve just gets walking in stations. Walk walk walk and walk some more. Oh and buy a nice handbag and then walk some more.


Pretty good reply, and yes I will acknowledge that some fun elements of a science fiction universe will be focused on DUST instead of EVE.

However, I think that is due in large part to technical reasons (among others). The EVE architecture is based around huge volumes of people interacting in a multitude of ways, it does not (unfortunately) lend it's self well to something as detailed as say a FPS type of gameplay when dealing with the volumes of players that could become involved. Even the single person closet we have now is having issues using system resources that will have to be seriously ironed out.

However, that still leaves the door open to a huge volume of "fun" elements that could be strictly Incarna based, or at least have a strong tie to Incarna.

This would include, but not be limited to:

1: An expansion of industry and commerce, specifically catering to items usuable only by avatars.

2: An expansion of agent missions which may contain elements which involve avatars.

3: Contraband and smuggling could be closely tied to Incarna.

4: Gambling could be tied to Incarna.

5: Specialized tools for managing/orchestrating large scale spaceship conflicts/logistics could be created for use with Incarna. By this I mean things that would make sense, such as a command and control room for alliances/corporations that have real time updates of all elements of your fleet. Things that would be too much to keep track of if you were in a ship actively participating in space at the same time.

6: Treaties could require a face to face meeting via Incarna. Meaning a gesture of trust in personally flying into what could be a dangerous area and docking to finalize the agreements would be necessary before a treaty "game mechanic" could be activated (auto blue standings, auto fee's charged for activities in formerly unfriendly area's of space, etc.)

7: Perhaps Incarna could be pivotal to a revamped bounty hunting system that would make the occupation viable and non-exploitable.

8: Many, many aspects of interacting with DUST could be Incarna related, as well as certain aspects of PI.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, but I imagine these as well as many other avenues have been under discussion now that the framework of Incarna is largely complete.

I recognize your point, but these are a few things to consider.



Ranger 1 you're dreaming dude.

i can't be assed going into details but srsly, you are dreaming.


Perhaps, but I would be willing to bet at least half of that list is in game (in one form or another) within the next two years.

Raven Aldura
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:39:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Mister Smithington
If you're anything like me, you've been a little underwhelmed with the initial offering of the Incarna expansion. The ability to walk around as a full body avatar has great potential, but currently all we have is one private room that merely serves as a less functional UI for everything we used to be able to do in the hangar.

Guess what, buttercup? Looks like that's all we get for a while.

Quote:
When is the next portion of Incarna going to roll out, and what can we expect?

Arnar: We're going to see more racial variance of captain's quarters added in the next few months. The next phase of Incarna will be the multiplayer establishments, and I really don't think I can give any solid timeline on that just yet. But we're looking at this year, definitely, for the next big evolution on that front.
Source

That's right, boys and girls. By the looks of it, even though CCP has grand plans for the Incarna feature, what we have now is about all the Incarna expansion will be. With any luck we'll get some re-skins to that one room before September. Multiplayer functionality for WiS will come "this year." I may be being pessimistic, but I read that as establishments being released in the lead up to the winter expansion.

What caught your attention as you read over the press conference coverage?


Old news is old

Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:40:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Mister Smithington on 06/07/2011 20:43:16
Originally by: San Severina
Ranger 1 you're dreaming dude.

i can't be assed going into details but srsly, you are dreaming.

I'm not going to defend Ranger, but seriously, if you can't be asked to make an argument, you should stay out of the debate.

Edit:
Originally by: Raven Aldura

Old news is old

Perhaps I was misinformed, but I was under the impression that the Incarna expansion would launch with just CQ, and would be "iterated" upon over the course of the expansion period. But Zulu has now confirmed that the only "iteration" we'll see before the winter expansion is a new skin for the captain's closet.

Medidranda Livoga
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:41:00 - [73]
 

2 and 4, rest won`t probably be functional for a long time.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:51:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Mister Smithington
Edited by: Mister Smithington on 06/07/2011 20:43:16
Originally by: San Severina
Ranger 1 you're dreaming dude.

i can't be assed going into details but srsly, you are dreaming.

I'm not going to defend Ranger, but seriously, if you can't be asked to make an argument, you should stay out of the debate.

Edit:
Originally by: Raven Aldura

Old news is old

Perhaps I was misinformed, but I was under the impression that the Incarna expansion would launch with just CQ, and would be "iterated" upon over the course of the expansion period. But Zulu has now confirmed that the only "iteration" we'll see before the winter expansion is a new skin for the captain's closet.


I suppose that would depend on how you view "iteration".

If by that they meant getting the different CQ's in, and seeding the market (in a responsible fashion this time) with a lot of new items (some that would go beyond clothing, like ship skins), then they are doing exactly what they said.

If they meant something beyond that between now and the next expansion then things are going more slowly than anticipated... which could very well be true as they seem to be having more issues with performance than they had hoped for.

I thought they were pretty clear that the mulitplayer area's would be out with the next expansion, but that may have only been my personal interpretation.

Corina's Bodyguard
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:57:00 - [75]
 

Ranger, if those things made it into EVE, Incarna would be one of the best expansions ever.

Now I have something to hope for.Very Happy

rootimus maximus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:00:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: dgastuffz
it dose not hurt me at all what is hurting me is no FIS content for 2 years now


FIS?

Fighting in stations? I thought this was absolutely ruled out, despite it being the only real point to WIS.

Features in stations? Strip clubs hardly count as a feature.

Fapping in stations? Because they took away our ability to spin in them.

So'rren
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:07:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Originally by: Solomunio Kzenig
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Corporate Propaganda


You know what, 100% of people don't care about new player experience, we all went through the pile of utter steaming crap that used to be the NPE and we survived. You know how most of us survived and prospered? we joined Player Corps and interacted with our fellow player, we contributed to the 'Sandbox'.
What draws and keeps players in EVE m8? I'll give you a tiny hint, its the content the other players create, the 0.0 Sov drama, the market manipulations, the ganking of Hulks during Hulkageddon etc. People don't stay in EVE cause of €€P, they stay becaue of what players do in EVE. To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln EVE is a game 'Of the players, by the players, for the players'. The sooner €€P remembers this and starts releasing real content that drives EVE's sandbox (and not Space barbie rubbish like Incarna) the better.


You're describing exactly the sort of thing the CQ advertises and pushes new players towards. I mean, you're exactly right, and I agree. Joining player corps is far and above the best thing you can do. No NPE can compete with the positive influence joining a corporation has. That's why we added a giant screen devoted wholly to it. The data on rising corporate recruitment looks good in that respect.

The same applies to other things you're describing. The 0.0 sov drama for example. CQ gives brand new players a little nudge towards it via the main screen Sov news. Just a little step, granted, but we are heading in the sort of direction you appear to be suggesting we do: focusing on pushing players into the sandbox. Letting them know, even a few minutes into EVE, that all of that exists out there.

As for the idea that players are our best content creation resource. I've said the same thing myself. Preach it! Smile


Sorry, but I just don't trust this one bit. I have yet to see anyone say "I saw something in the CQ that led me to this corp". Mostly I've seen, "I don't care that much for this, how do I get rid of it".

Dr Lebroi
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:10:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: rootimus maximus
Originally by: dgastuffz
it dose not hurt me at all what is hurting me is no FIS content for 2 years now


FIS?

Fighting in stations? I thought this was absolutely ruled out, despite it being the only real point to WIS.

Features in stations? Strip clubs hardly count as a feature.

Fapping in stations? Because they took away our ability to spin in them.



FLYING IN SPACE

rootimus maximus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:14:00 - [79]
 

Cheers

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:24:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: jackaloped on 06/07/2011 21:26:39
Originally by: Ranger 1

...

However, that still leaves the door open to a huge volume of "fun" elements that could be strictly Incarna based, or at least have a strong tie to Incarna.

This would include, but not be limited to:

1: An expansion of industry and commerce, specifically catering to items usuable only by avatars.

2: An expansion of agent missions which may contain elements which involve avatars.

3: Contraband and smuggling could be closely tied to Incarna.

4: Gambling could be tied to Incarna.

5: Specialized tools for managing/orchestrating large scale spaceship conflicts/logistics could be created for use with Incarna. By this I mean things that would make sense, such as a command and control room for alliances/corporations that have real time updates of all elements of your fleet. Things that would be too much to keep track of if you were in a ship actively participating in space at the same time.

6: Treaties could require a face to face meeting via Incarna. Meaning a gesture of trust in personally flying into what could be a dangerous area and docking to finalize the agreements would be necessary before a treaty "game mechanic" could be activated (auto blue standings, auto fee's charged for activities in formerly unfriendly area's of space, etc.)

7: Perhaps Incarna could be pivotal to a revamped bounty hunting system that would make the occupation viable and non-exploitable.

8: Many, many aspects of interacting with DUST could be Incarna related, as well as certain aspects of PI.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, but I imagine these as well as many other avenues have been under discussion now that the framework of Incarna is largely complete.

I recognize your point, but these are a few things to consider.



Ok thanks for the response. My thoughts are generally that you are trying to make some features incarna only to try to lend validity to incarna. Also without any guns or fighting mechanics incarna is doomed to be pretty much nothing but walking and dialogue boxes.

1) Manufacture Items only usuable by avatars? If they are vanity items they will likely be manufactured by ccp. If they are non-vanity items - like implants – they can be used without the avatars.
Although I agree that *if* they allowed players to manufacture vanity items this would have some value. But I just don’t think they are going to pass up the mt money by allowing players to create the vanity stuff.
2) Ok but without any guns or hover craft we are basically talking about a courier mission on foot. Can we agree that is not really great gameplay?
3) Well it could. But we already have contraband and smuggling. So it’s not really adding anything. Instead of getting stopped at a gate you get stopped at a doorway. But maybe they will give us some skills like “run” or “hide.” That we can use in these situations.
4) Gambling could be tied to incarna. Or not. People could play poker remotely in the futuristic eve universe just like they can play poker remotely in the present ordinary universe.
5) Here I think you are just talking about adding features and then saying lets make this exclusive to incarna. It would make sense that a titan or a mothership would have these capabilities. And its unrealistic that this intel couldn’t be transmitted to other pilots.
6) Same as 5. Why say treaties require incarna other than to just try to make incarna meaningful?
7) I have no idea what you mean here. The smart ___ in me wants to say “yeah and maybe incarna will fix lag.”
8) Yeah they could all tie in but it will always just involve dialogue and walking. With dust being the exclusive fighting aspect of the eve universe we are left with very little fun stuff. I think the best we can hope for is some sort of a myst type game with lots of walking and lots of clothing stores.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:43:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Mister Smithington
Originally by: jackaloped


You think I have serious issues that I don’t see the potential? Lets look at the potential you describe:

Poker: I don’t want to play poker when I log in to eve. If I did I would play poker instead of logging in to eve. Will I play poker for isk? No not when lots of people will likely be cheating and scamming people.

Talking to another player face to face “kinda”: Well you can see their avatar and type in local or probably do something like they do in second life. Again pretty uninspiring stuff.

Furnish your own place: Again second life. Not inspiring. How long are you going to look at those alien fish?

Yeah what you describe is really a “ton” of stuff incarna will bring.

And FIS is being abandoned for all this ton of stuff.

You can talk about eve existing for years all you want. But eve has existed for 8 years as a fis game. It hasn’t existed for that long as a game where you play dress up, walk around, and look at imaginary fish tanks.


……
Unfortunately, Even the people that do want incarna, aren't getting it. Or at least aren't getting any meaningful part of it. And it looks like even after :18 months: of dev attention it still won't be anywhere close to complete.


First they do have incarna. It is here. The idea that incarna is going to bring some exciting new fantastic content or potential is really just bs. CCP has told us only that we will be able to “dress for success” and somehow smuggle boosters.

Yes you will see your agent give you a mission. (wing commander style) But people will still try to cut through those dialogues asap just like they did with wing commander and they do now with eve.

Without any fighting and risk of dying it will be boring.

CCP with their “future of eve” couldn’t even make a compelling video without someone pulling a gun out and threatening people with it. Except there are no plans for such person to person combat in incarna. That is all dust. Don’t get confused by the hype.

Take any mmo you want and walk around and talk to other avatars in game. Just don’t do any fighting. You will see what incarna is going to be for eve.


Darko Decay
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:51:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Mister Smithington

I live in low sec. Shooting dudes is what I do. The last 4 expansions have been worthless to me. Captains closet, Space raids, sim city, and the 0.0 changes don't effect what I do, but I don't drag my victim complex all over the forums. Every time they design or work on a feature that isn't what a particular player has an interest in, that person could scream "they aren't adding anything meaningful!" And they often do scream just that. You may not want incarna, but a lot of people do.


This. Both my accounts are going to go inactive. I'll keep a eye on things and if you guys ever decide to return to your core business shoot me a email.

Ezra Vouland
Lords 0f Justice
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:54:00 - [83]
 

Linkage


MMMMM space sails

Darko Decay
Posted - 2011.07.06 22:01:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Ezra Vouland
Linkage


MMMMM space sails


Exactly. I think ccp has lost sight of the fact that they make a video game and while it may be unique in its own ways the fact that it is a video game and there are many many MANY game studios making interesting, cool, stimulating and unique in their own way games every day. Competing for my dollar does not mean testing technology for your other games on me and have me pay for that because I'm addicted to sp (you know who you are).

Uearel Atram
Posted - 2011.07.06 22:02:00 - [85]
 

How about we get some actual space content and fixes instead of more beta testing for WoD?

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.06 22:05:00 - [86]
 

Thanks Corina's Bodyguard. Smile

I'm doing this in a separate, non-quoted post as that one was getting a bit big, even though I was trying to be brief. It's a lot of territory to cover. I'll try to clarify where I was overly vague. (Good discussion by the way.)

1: They have already said they wanted to include the EVE industrial/economic base as much as possible. The main thing holding them up right now is the somewhat comical difficulty with getting BPC's to cooperate through the NeX store.
I'm sure you saw the ridiculous amount of effort it took just to get BPC's and BPO's to show up as different in their data base system, so I can buy that. Personally I would think they would have looked ahead when they restructured their data bases to handle normal BPO's and BPC's.
Regardless, this is the only hold up to letting players manufacture the vanity items that I know of. They would make their cash selling the BPC's (no BPO's). Interestingly, the raw materials to make these items could easily come from PI materials and goods, which would be a good thing as well.

2: On agent missions I have to agree with you to a degree. Certain mission or agents only meeting in person (perhaps for the shadier missions) would primarily only add to the level of immersion... and unless they were very well done would serve to irritate devoted mission runners. Unless those shady missions that required a face to face were very, very lucurative.
Or perhaps this would be an even better venue for the storyline Epic Arc type of missions that only become available once in a while.

3: Contraband and smuggling is supposedly being reinterated soon anyway, with the players getting the ability to flag ships they scan that are smuggling contraband. It wouldn't be much of a stretch to make the source of that contraband be via a face to face in Incarna (similar to above). They have already set the stage for this with thier early videos about Incarna that mention doing business that you needed to keep "off the grid, and no record of".

4: They already have the mini game develped for Incarna play (and the blasted name of it escapes me now)... Conquest or whatever it was. I don't know if there is any connection to gambling with it, but it wouldn't be a stretch to see other EVE only forms of gambling that must be done in person. Purposely latching something onto Incarna? Perhaps, but it certainly adds to the sense of immersion.

5: Lack of screen real estate is an issue in EVE already, and I think we both know that if you are present in a fleet battle of any size (unless you are lagged to hell) you don't have a lot of space or time to deal with any high level strategy or highly detailed views of the entire battle (especially if the battles are taking place in more than one location at a time). A command center similar to what we know will be available in DUST, with highly detailed information and a 3D view of the "entire" battle could be very, very handy. One FC on site and another relaying what he can "see" from his overview position of the battle(s) available to him with the tools available in the Command and Control center. DUST will have something similar, why not EVE.

6: The only reason to tie treaties (which I'm really irritated aren't in game yet) to Incarna would be to give a valid reason to find a suitable station to meet in. This would necessitate some interesting game play, and a level of trust on both sides, that does not currently necessarily exist now.

7: We have seen hints that bounty hunting may take a new direction, but yes, this one is mostly conjecture on my part. I have some thoughts on how it could be handled in a completely different way, but I need to do some thinking about it first. We'll see if they bring it up again.

8: Largely you are correct, but I think it's pretty apparent that most DUST interaction will have at least some elements of Incarna incorporated.


Darko Decay
Posted - 2011.07.06 22:05:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Uearel Atram
How about we get some actual space content and fixes instead of more beta testing for WoD?


^^ dropbear? I know you are working on that cool sleepers story so wtf? It would be interesting if it didnt take longer then the wheel of time series.

Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.07.06 22:07:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: Mister Smithington on 06/07/2011 22:12:01
I said I wasn't going to argue the benefits of incarna, but I guess I will after all.
Originally by: jackaloped
First they do have incarna. It is here. The idea that incarna is going to bring some exciting new fantastic content or potential is really just bs. CCP has told us only that we will be able to “dress for success” and somehow smuggle boosters.

Yes you will see your agent give you a mission. (wing commander style) But people will still try to cut through those dialogues asap just like they did with wing commander and they do now with eve.
It sounds like you have a very boring and unimaginative idea of what Incarna would be. Watch Torfi's presentation at fanfest from this year. He talks about some pretty exciting things to be perfectly honest. Whether that's just fanfest hype or something we can actually look forward to, I don't know.

But I do know this: WiS is an opportunity to flesh out all the things Eve hints at but never demonstrates. I would love to see the inside of a refinery. I bet a massive assembly line churning out Ravens would be jaw-dropping. I'd love to see a research lab from the inside.

However, all the original functionality needs to remain. If I have to take a five minute hike to talk to my agent face to face every time I pull a mission, I'll be ****ed. And I don't see why I couldn't call up the guys at the raven factory from my ship and say "Hey, I need you to make another batch of those, the minerals are in the hangar, get to work."

Quote:
Without any fighting and risk of dying it will be boring.

CCP with their “future of eve” couldn’t even make a compelling video without someone pulling a gun out and threatening people with it. Except there are no plans for such person to person combat in incarna. That is all dust. Don’t get confused by the hype.

Take any mmo you want and walk around and talk to other avatars in game. Just don’t do any fighting. You will see what incarna is going to be for eve.

Thank god Eve isn't like that. I mean, I'm glad every facet of Eve is ships shooting other ships. Oh wait. . .

There are people who play Eve today who do no fighting. Manufacturers, miners, researchers, traders, PI guys. There are characters who never undock from jita 4-4. Why assume that the noncombat features of eve will be more exciting from a ship in a hangar than an avatar in a station enviornment?

Edit:
Originally by: Darko Decay

This. Both my accounts are going to go inactive. I'll keep a eye on things and if you guys ever decide to return to your core business shoot me a email.

Oh, dude, I'm sorry to hear that. I've had a blast flying with you, even though I haven't been around too much recently :P

Darko Decay
Posted - 2011.07.06 22:10:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Mister Smithington

There are people who play Eve today who do no fighting. Manufacturers, miners, researchers, traders, PI guys. There are characters who never undock from jita 4-4. Why assume that the noncombat features of eve will be more exciting from a ship in a hangar than an avatar in a station enviornment?



Those people exists because of pvp though. Imagine if the entire player base said no we all arent gonna kill anything?

Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.07.06 22:14:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Darko Decay
Originally by: Mister Smithington

There are people who play Eve today who do no fighting. Manufacturers, miners, researchers, traders, PI guys. There are characters who never undock from jita 4-4. Why assume that the noncombat features of eve will be more exciting from a ship in a hangar than an avatar in a station enviornment?



Those people exists because of pvp though. Imagine if the entire player base said no we all arent gonna kill anything?

True. However my point was, there's no reason those industry guys need to sit in a velator in the hangar when they could be doing the same stuff from a strip club.


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