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Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:04:00 - [1]
 

If you're anything like me, you've been a little underwhelmed with the initial offering of the Incarna expansion. The ability to walk around as a full body avatar has great potential, but currently all we have is one private room that merely serves as a less functional UI for everything we used to be able to do in the hangar.

Guess what, buttercup? Looks like that's all we get for a while.

Quote:
When is the next portion of Incarna going to roll out, and what can we expect?

Arnar: We're going to see more racial variance of captain's quarters added in the next few months. The next phase of Incarna will be the multiplayer establishments, and I really don't think I can give any solid timeline on that just yet. But we're looking at this year, definitely, for the next big evolution on that front.
Source

That's right, boys and girls. By the looks of it, even though CCP has grand plans for the Incarna feature, what we have now is about all the Incarna expansion will be. With any luck we'll get some re-skins to that one room before September. Multiplayer functionality for WiS will come "this year." I may be being pessimistic, but I read that as establishments being released in the lead up to the winter expansion.

What caught your attention as you read over the press conference coverage?

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:14:00 - [2]
 

What's your point? That isn't news...

Ezra Vouland
Lords 0f Justice
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:15:00 - [3]
 

How has any of this effected my internet spaceships. All you carebears sitting in stations and think that is what the game is a bout should go back to WoW

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:17:00 - [4]
 

Of course this is it.

Walking in stations is walking in stations. We are now able to walk in stations.

In the future we will have different room back drops we can walk in. We will be able to see other players walking in stations. We will be able to wear different clothes as we walk in stations.

But that is really just more of the same. I'm really not sure what great potential you speak of. Eve is not going to replace dust.

So the next few expansions will be more walking infront of different back drops and in different virtual clothes. We will be able to walk in the kitchen wearing a green sweater. We will be able to walk in a bar wearing yellow boots. etc etc.

Is this the potential you speak of? If not then what is it?

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:18:00 - [5]
 

This isn't really news. It's always been the plan to introduce all the captain's quarters and then multiplayer establishments and internal station areas. That's the whole point of Incarna. The fact that it might not come until the end of the year should also be no surprise, as we previously expected it to fit the Winter expansion slot. What IS news is that CCP is taking a real iterative approach to it and not setting an artificial deadline for multiplayer incarna so it has to be pushed out the door unfinished. If they hold to that, it could be better for the feature in the long run even if it doesn't release until December or early next year.

I really hope the multiplayer environments come in soon as they're the real meat of Incarna and are sure to provide a lot more fun than being locked in a room by ourselves, but after this many years a few extra months won't kill me ^^;.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:20:00 - [6]
 

You can only do so much with 20 people.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:22:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
You can only do so much with 20 people.


You can watch them walk in stations.

Jack BingKaria
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:25:00 - [8]
 

If people really were interested in walking in stations and on planets......

Then startrek online would have tons of more subscribers then eve online......

Guess what, they hardly have subscribers......
Doesnt that ring a bell CCP?
Or are you wearing pink sunglasses....

Kartaugh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:25:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: jackaloped
Of course this is it.

Walking in stations is walking in stations. We are now able to walk in stations.

In the future we will have different room back drops we can walk in. We will be able to see other players walking in stations. We will be able to wear different clothes as we walk in stations.

But that is really just more of the same. I'm really not sure what great potential you speak of. Eve is not going to replace dust.

So the next few expansions will be more walking infront of different back drops and in different virtual clothes. We will be able to walk in the kitchen wearing a green sweater. We will be able to walk in a bar wearing yellow boots. etc etc.

Is this the potential you speak of? If not then what is it?


This.

I still don't know exactly what people are expecting to be able to do with the future of WiS.

Will you be able to do anything other than what is currently available through the regular UI?

Will you be able to kill anyone (effectively podding) in the WiS areas? If so, I predict multiplayer areas in stations to be as empty as low-sec is right now.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:29:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Kartaugh
Will you be able to kill anyone (effectively podding) in the WiS areas?


No. CCP made that clear. That is what dust is for.

Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:58:00 - [11]
 

My point was that Zulu all but confessed that the Incarna expansion cycle will be the most featureless probably in all of Eve's history. Tyrannis was pretty bad, but at least the PI **** had an impact on the market, and gave me a few more industrials to shoot at in low-sec.

I'm not going to argue the benefits of the Incarna feature, it's been done and redone. I will say though, that what we have is not walk in stations. It's walk in closets. And that's going to be the state of things until around the winter expansion.

Originally by: Nyphur
This isn't really news. It's always been the plan to introduce all the captain's quarters and then multiplayer establishments and internal station areas. That's the whole point of Incarna. The fact that it might not come until the end of the year should also be no surprise, as we previously expected it to fit the Winter expansion slot. What IS news is that CCP is taking a real iterative approach to it and not setting an artificial deadline for multiplayer incarna so it has to be pushed out the door unfinished. If they hold to that, it could be better for the feature in the long run even if it doesn't release until December or early next year.

I really hope the multiplayer environments come in soon as they're the real meat of Incarna and are sure to provide a lot more fun than being locked in a room by ourselves, but after this many years a few extra months won't kill me ^^;.

If I have my timeline right the winter expansion is about the end of the :18 months: era. But we'll only have the most basic features of Incarna. Most of the stuff they mentioned at fanfest will not be in game at that point. So, either they abandon Incarna as another buggy, broken, incomplete abortion of a feature (see FW), or they keep the bulk of their resources on Incarna to the detriment of the spaceship part of Eve.

And let's be honest. Incarna and "space barbie" is their new income stream. What do we really think they'll prioritize.

I also didn't see any talk about making cash shop items destructible. Worn monocles are still respawned after a podding, and there's no talk about that changing. 1) That doesn't make sense. 2) That sets a very bad precedent. Will ship paint jobs be respawned when a painted ship is destroyed too?

CCP Dropbear

Posted - 2011.07.06 18:12:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Mister Smithington
I'm not going to argue the benefits of the Incarna feature, it's been done and redone.


All the benefits haven't even made themselves known yet, so I don't see how that particular debate is done.

What I mean is, we're only now seeing the impact the CQ is having on Flying in Space, and will only get a clearer picture in the months to come. Things like the effect it's having on new player retention, and perhaps most importantly corporation joining, that stuff takes a while to show up in the data.

I'm talking about the NPE here, in case that's not clear. For Incarna we completely gutted the old crash course and rewrote it dramatically, to increase immersion and instruction. Lots of "Incarna development time" went into it - but really it's an FiS-grounded and FiS-focused feature, and probably the most under-the-radar one we've ever released (helps when there are distractions of the magnitude we've had). It is a critical piece of content when it comes to EVE's long-term health, and those of us who worked on it are really excited to see the effect it's going to have.

Early signs are very encouraging, but we'll wait a while longer to build a better picture of its impact. I know some people think Incarna is about NeX and nothing else, and that development into Incarna hurts EVE. I look forward to the day we can demonstrate just how much CQ has positively affected the game at large. I'm confident the news will be good. Smile

Smoking Blunts
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:14:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Smoking Blunts on 06/07/2011 18:15:33
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Originally by: Mister Smithington
I'm not going to argue the benefits of the Incarna feature, it's been done and redone.


All the benefits haven't even made themselves known yet, so I don't see how that particular debate is done.

What I mean is, we're only now seeing the impact the CQ is having on Flying in Space, and will only get a clearer picture in the months to come. Things like the effect it's having on new player retention, and perhaps most importantly corporation joining, that stuff takes a while to show up in the data.

I'm talking about the NPE here, in case that's not clear. For Incarna we completely gutted the old crash course and rewrote it dramatically, to increase immersion and instruction. Lots of "Incarna development time" went into it - but really it's an FiS-grounded and FiS-focused feature, and probably the most under-the-radar one we've ever released (helps when there are distractions of the magnitude we've had). It is a critical piece of content when it comes to EVE's long-term health, and those of us who worked on it are really excited to see the effect it's going to have.

Early signs are very encouraging, but we'll wait a while longer to build a better picture of its impact. I know some people think Incarna is about NeX and nothing else, and that development into Incarna hurts EVE. I look forward to the day we can demonstrate just how much CQ has positively affected the game at large. I'm confident the news will be good. Smile


do you already have a graph of how many cancelled the last few weeks and how many resubbed after the PR releases?
would be intresting to see

edit, woudl also be intresting to see how many accounts have actively turned CQ off too?

i guess neither are graphs your gonna post on the forums

Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:17:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Originally by: Mister Smithington
I'm not going to argue the benefits of the Incarna feature, it's been done and redone.


All the benefits haven't even made themselves known yet, so I don't see how that particular debate is done.





But what about the immensely annoying and indeed painful new 'features' that came in with CQ - like, things that used to be easy-bloody-peasy like changing ships, loading ammo or opening cargobays, but which now take a relative age to accomplish? Any chance those are going to 'enhanced' (i.e., reverted to their previous state)?

CCP Dropbear

Posted - 2011.07.06 18:21:00 - [15]
 

I can't speak to either point guys, sorry. Not my department. Sad

Really, I'm just trying to say one very specific thing: there are flow-on benefits to FiS from CQ like increases in new player retention and corp recruitment. Early indicators are good, and we're looking forward to releasing a full picture once we have one.

Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:22:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Hungry Eyes on 06/07/2011 18:22:54
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Things like the effect it's having on new player retention


just wondering...why arent you guys prioritizing the retention of older players? it has been 2.5 years since u guys did anything useful/interesting for us. i hope you realize that most of the noobs will leave once GW2 and TOR come out in a few months, and what youre seeing right now is a transient increase in new subs due to CQ. i really hope youre not trying to appeal to this demographic. cuz if you are, CCP is doomed. doooooomed. i disagree with CCP's divergence from EVE's niche in the MMO market.

Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:26:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Corporate Propaganda


You know what, 100% of people don't care about new player experience, we all went through the pile of utter steaming crap that used to be the NPE and we survived. You know how most of us survived and prospered? we joined Player Corps and interacted with our fellow player, we contributed to the 'Sandbox'.
What draws and keeps players in EVE m8? I'll give you a tiny hint, its the content the other players create, the 0.0 Sov drama, the market manipulations, the ganking of Hulks during Hulkageddon etc. People don't stay in EVE cause of P, they stay becaue of what players do in EVE. To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln EVE is a game 'Of the players, by the players, for the players'. The sooner P remembers this and starts releasing real content that drives EVE's sandbox (and not Space barbie rubbish like Incarna) the better.

Smoking Blunts
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:27:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Smoking Blunts on 06/07/2011 18:28:02
Originally by: CCP Dropbear

I'm talking about the NPE here, in case that's not clear. For Incarna we completely gutted the old crash course and rewrote it dramatically, to increase immersion and instruction.


the immersion for older players(some to avoid flames) have been broken. we either get dragged kicking and screaming from our pods or get to look at a wall.
it wasnt about ship spinning, it was about being connected with the ship that we are plugged into and then the functionality of the old hanger. while your CQ might look nice. it breaks immersion for a lot of people and fucntionality is reduced.

if this is restored thats all good, but it better not be something we can do after being dragged from the pod, as this is still immersion breaking.

edit.
why cant it just be a button. old hanger(same style new engine if you must), enter CQ button, CQ's?

Renosha Argaron
Caldari
IronPig
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:28:00 - [19]
 

Im really hopeing some changes are made to Incarna soon, i like incanra and have been a supporter of it since it was announced, but not loving the fact i can no longer run more than 1 account, and i have a pretty new and decent spec PC, but its still laggy and no way can i run more than one acount without my pc having a major meltdown, i think CQ needs to be made optional and i dont just mean turning off CQ, i want the option to ship-spinning back and to be able to run my other accounts side by side like before, if not then i guess i will be unsubing 3 accounts and just keeping 1, which is not what i want to do by any means but im not paying for accounts i cant use, also hope CCP does something about NEX pricing, those are the issues id like sorted, but im aware things take time, just hope CCP gets around to it sometime soon before people get totaly disheartened and unsubCrying or Very sad


Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:29:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
I'm confident the news will be good. Smile

Given recent events, I don't think anybody within CCP has any business being confident about anything.

We'll see.

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:31:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Solomunio Kzenig
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Corporate Propaganda


You know what, 100% of people don't care about new player experience, we all went through the pile of utter steaming crap that used to be the NPE and we survived.


There you go, speaking for hundreds of thousands of players... Rolling Eyes

Dex Ironmind
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:34:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
I can't speak to either point guys, sorry. Not my department. Sad

Really, I'm just trying to say one very specific thing: there are flow-on benefits to FiS from CQ like increases in new player retention and corp recruitment. Early indicators are good, and we're looking forward to releasing a full picture once we have one.


I hate to contradict Dropbear, but these things (corp recruitment, NPE and even an agent finder) could have been done without INCARNA. Those features are not dependent on INCARNA as far as I can tell, they are simply released with INCARNA.

Which comes back to the point, FIS might be enhanced, but it is not the CQ that enhances that. The features that impact FIS are items that could have just as well been added without CQ.

Correct me if I am missing something here.

Dex was here. Cool

CCP Dropbear

Posted - 2011.07.06 18:34:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Solomunio Kzenig
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Corporate Propaganda


You know what, 100% of people don't care about new player experience, we all went through the pile of utter steaming crap that used to be the NPE and we survived. You know how most of us survived and prospered? we joined Player Corps and interacted with our fellow player, we contributed to the 'Sandbox'.
What draws and keeps players in EVE m8? I'll give you a tiny hint, its the content the other players create, the 0.0 Sov drama, the market manipulations, the ganking of Hulks during Hulkageddon etc. People don't stay in EVE cause of P, they stay becaue of what players do in EVE. To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln EVE is a game 'Of the players, by the players, for the players'. The sooner P remembers this and starts releasing real content that drives EVE's sandbox (and not Space barbie rubbish like Incarna) the better.


You're describing exactly the sort of thing the CQ advertises and pushes new players towards. I mean, you're exactly right, and I agree. Joining player corps is far and above the best thing you can do. No NPE can compete with the positive influence joining a corporation has. That's why we added a giant screen devoted wholly to it. The data on rising corporate recruitment looks good in that respect.

The same applies to other things you're describing. The 0.0 sov drama for example. CQ gives brand new players a little nudge towards it via the main screen Sov news. Just a little step, granted, but we are heading in the sort of direction you appear to be suggesting we do: focusing on pushing players into the sandbox. Letting them know, even a few minutes into EVE, that all of that exists out there.

As for the idea that players are our best content creation resource. I've said the same thing myself. Preach it! Smile

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:37:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Hungry Eyes
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Things like the effect it's having on new player retention


just wondering...why arent you guys prioritizing the retention of older players? it has been 2.5 years since u guys did anything useful/interesting for us. i hope your realize that most of the noobs will leave once GW2 and TOR come out in a few months, and what youre seeing right now is a transient increase in new subs due to CQ. i really hope youre not trying to appeal to this demographic. cuz if you are, CCP is doomed. doooooomed.


Bringing in new players is essential not only for the general health of EVE, but also for maintaining the enjoyment level for older players.

I'm sure that plans for Incarna content are still being hammered out. That is a lot of ground to cover. Think about any content you have seen in other games that involve an avatar. Suddenly many of those options become possible in a modified form within EVE.

This would include, but not be limited to:

1: An expansion of industry and commerce, specifically catering to items usuable only by avatars.

2: An expansion of agent missions which may contain elements which involve avatars.

3: Contraband and smuggling could be closely tied to Incarna.

4: Gambling could be tied to Incarna.

5: Specialized tools for managing/orchestrating large scale spaceship conflicts/logistics could be created for use with Incarna. By this I mean things that would make sense, such as a command and control room for alliances/corporations that have real time updates of all elements of your fleet. Things that would be too much to keep track of if you were in a ship actively participating in space at the same time.

6: Treaties could require a face to face meeting via Incarna. Meaning a gesture of trust in personally flying into what could be a dangerous area and docking to finalize the agreements would be necessary before a treaty "game mechanic" could be activated (auto blue standings, auto fee's charged for activities in formerly unfriendly area's of space, etc.)

7: Perhaps Incarna could be pivotal to a revamped bounty hunting system that would make the occupation viable and non-exploitable.

8: Many, many aspects of interacting with DUST could be Incarna related, as well as certain aspects of PI.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, but I imagine these as well as many other avenues have been under discussion now that the framework of Incarna is largely complete.





Smoking Blunts
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:37:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Originally by: Solomunio Kzenig
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Corporate Propaganda


You know what, 100% of people don't care about new player experience, we all went through the pile of utter steaming crap that used to be the NPE and we survived. You know how most of us survived and prospered? we joined Player Corps and interacted with our fellow player, we contributed to the 'Sandbox'.
What draws and keeps players in EVE m8? I'll give you a tiny hint, its the content the other players create, the 0.0 Sov drama, the market manipulations, the ganking of Hulks during Hulkageddon etc. People don't stay in EVE cause of P, they stay becaue of what players do in EVE. To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln EVE is a game 'Of the players, by the players, for the players'. The sooner P remembers this and starts releasing real content that drives EVE's sandbox (and not Space barbie rubbish like Incarna) the better.


You're describing exactly the sort of thing the CQ advertises and pushes new players towards. I mean, you're exactly right, and I agree. Joining player corps is far and above the best thing you can do. No NPE can compete with the positive influence joining a corporation has. That's why we added a giant screen devoted wholly to it. The data on rising corporate recruitment looks good in that respect.

The same applies to other things you're describing. The 0.0 sov drama for example. CQ gives brand new players a little nudge towards it via the main screen Sov news. Just a little step, granted, but we are heading in the sort of direction you appear to be suggesting we do: focusing on pushing players into the sandbox. Letting them know, even a few minutes into EVE, that all of that exists out there.

As for the idea that players are our best content creation resource. I've said the same thing myself. Preach it! Smile


how about you nudge new players with a button?
why cant it just be a button. old hanger(same style new engine if you must), enter CQ button, CQ's?

Garreth Vlox
Minmatar
Obsidian Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:39:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Garreth Vlox on 06/07/2011 18:39:47
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Originally by: Mister Smithington
I'm not going to argue the benefits of the Incarna feature, it's been done and redone.


All the benefits haven't even made themselves known yet, so I don't see how that particular debate is done.

What I mean is, we're only now seeing the impact the CQ is having on Flying in Space, and will only get a clearer picture in the months to come. Things like the effect it's having on new player retention, and perhaps most importantly corporation joining, that stuff takes a while to show up in the data.

I'm talking about the NPE here, in case that's not clear. For Incarna we completely gutted the old crash course and rewrote it dramatically, to increase immersion and instruction. Lots of "Incarna development time" went into it - but really it's an FiS-grounded and FiS-focused feature, and probably the most under-the-radar one we've ever released (helps when there are distractions of the magnitude we've had). It is a critical piece of content when it comes to EVE's long-term health, and those of us who worked on it are really excited to see the effect it's going to have.

Early signs are very encouraging, but we'll wait a while longer to build a better picture of its impact. I know some people think Incarna is about NeX and nothing else, and that development into Incarna hurts EVE. I look forward to the day we can demonstrate just how much CQ has positively affected the game at large. I'm confident the news will be good. Smile


if we wanted someone to parrot the bull**** company line we would have asked zulu to write another blog, now features or GTFO

Izziee
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:42:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: jackaloped
Of course this is it.

Walking in stations is walking in stations. We are now able to walk in stations.

In the future we will have different room back drops we can walk in. We will be able to see other players walking in stations. We will be able to wear different clothes as we walk in stations.

But that is really just more of the same. I'm really not sure what great potential you speak of. Eve is not going to replace dust.

So the next few expansions will be more walking infront of different back drops and in different virtual clothes. We will be able to walk in the kitchen wearing a green sweater. We will be able to walk in a bar wearing yellow boots. etc etc.

Is this the potential you speak of? If not then what is it?


If you can't see the potential then you got serious issues.

Allowing a virtual space like they have, allows for us to walk to a poker game in a gambling den (after flying to it ofc) sit down, and gamble ISK with other pilots (A suggestion I made)

It also allows for a more life like feel to things. Talking to another player face to face (kinda) rather than staring at a ship makes it feel more personal.

being able to furnish the CQ with our own items. You don't have to do it, but some would, I know I would. Thus, allowing for supply and demand of items on the market, perhaps using PI to gather materials to produce a certain item (tables, chairs etc) hell, they could even make a fish tank with alien life swimming about.

There's a ton of things they can do with it, and guess what, if you don't like it? Boo hoo, it doesn't effect you in the slightest. It doesn't stop you doing what you could before (In before QQ about having a machine from the stone age unable to play modern games, or those whining about MT that they don't have to buy yet cry because they're jealous of those who did (nope, I'd never buy something like that personally, but could I care less if someone else did? does it effect me? hell no) and afaik they're not bringing in ptw items, so can leave that out the argument also.

Seriously, stop whining about improvements that don't harm you in any way regardless or not if YOU like them or not.

Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:42:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Solomunio Kzenig on 06/07/2011 18:43:35
Originally by: Smoking Blunts
how about you nudge new players with a button?
why cant it just be a button. old hanger(same style new engine if you must), enter CQ button, CQ's?


Nope, sorry, it has to be done via Incarna cause that way 1. EVE players BETA test the WoD engine and 2. P can sell you Space Barbie pants for $1000.

dgastuffz
Caldari
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:44:00 - [29]
 

correct me if i am wrong but is eve not about space ships when did that change ?

baltec1
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:47:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Jack BingKaria
If people really were interested in walking in stations and on planets......

Then startrek online would have tons of more subscribers then eve online......

Guess what, they hardly have subscribers......
Doesnt that ring a bell CCP?
Or are you wearing pink sunglasses....


The reason why STO isnt doing very well is because the WoW in space gameplay sucks balls and it has the depth of a muddy puddle.


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