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Isis Tavore
Ashfell Celestial Equilibrium
Posted - 2011.07.11 14:04:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Reeper 2435
The death of one ship is the birth of another.


This is why I decided to take a shortcut through lowsec yesterday morning on my way to Jita. 'Twasn't blind optimism on my part, oh no. I was helping the economy.

No, really...




Sombre Asesinos
Posted - 2011.08.12 18:53:00 - [122]
 

I've been away for a while.

I have no problem whatsoever with two players blasting the sh|t out of each other if they both choose to do so. You combat pvpers act like all someone has to do is "decide" to fight. I've been killed by other players three times so far. I did my homework. In order to have stood the slightest chance in any of the fights I would need a MINIMUM of another YEAR of training. It's akin to putting a 1 year old toddler in the ring with the heavy weight champion and saying, "what's wrong, you got in the ring, get up and fight". Exactly what chance does that 1 year old stand? None, zero, zilch, nada. See my point? No, probably not. If everyone doesn't do it your way then they are wrong.

I differentiate between those that like to pvp and griefers. Griefers are bullies, plain and simple. They enjoying making sure others don't have fun. They enjoy destroying the hard work of others. Someone cruising around in a 1.0 system flipping cans in their T3 cruiser is the worst kind of scum. It's like taking an M1A1 tank and attacking en elementary school.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.08.12 19:11:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Sombre Asesinos
I have no problem whatsoever with two players blasting the sh|t out of each other if they both choose to do so. You combat pvpers act like all someone has to do is "decide" to fight.

You do though, don't you? Exactly what were the circumstances of each destruction? At some point, you initiated it.
Quote:
I did my homework. In order to have stood the slightest chance in any of the fights I would need a MINIMUM of another YEAR of training. It's akin to putting a 1 year old toddler in the ring with the heavy weight champion and saying, "what's wrong, you got in the ring, get up and fight"

Getting into the situation where you are THAT outgunned is where you went wrong. It can be avoided. You can get friends. You can do 1001 things to turn the tables. The ability of a complete noob getting kills is long established.
Quote:
If everyone doesn't do it your way then they are wrong

Your way seems to be to lose, then talk **** about it. I mean, we can try that, but most of us are pretty set on not being the victim.
Quote:
Someone cruising around in a 1.0 system flipping cans in their T3 cruiser is the worst kind of scum

LOL NO. They are an absolute idiot, is what they are. Can you please tell me this pilots name LaughingLaughingLaughing

Phugoid
Posted - 2011.08.12 19:15:00 - [124]
 

Otto, I sympathise with you to an extent.

I am barely 2 years old into Eve, and have learned a few lessons the hard way.
One month ago I was close to 2 bil in my wallet, now a month later I have a lil over 1 bil!
Lost of course by some very "mean" people, but hey, they were playiing within the rules. I took the risk, which I fully understood, and Im willing to work my way back up to where I was, albeit a bit smarter.

You have got to use Giant Secure Containers if you dont want to get can-flipped my friend. They are relatively cheap and they will never be flipped! I found out about GSCs from an exact experience that you had, and voila! No more griefing over cans.

Follow the advise given, and you'll see it aint really all that bad. I lost almost 1 bill in collaterals and ship refits in less than a month... but I am still addicted to this game! And the main thing is that even when bad things happen, one learns from the experience, and you and your friend will only become stronger! Good Luck! You can do well in eve w/out PVP, tho it is a big part of the game. rememeber, Eve is set up in a big sand-box, and bullies do come along now and then.

Reeper 2435
Posted - 2011.08.12 20:42:00 - [125]
 

This is why i try to snatch noobs out of the starter systems before they are 2 weeks old. I currently have 2 new players in my corp who have less than 900K SP who believe they are making a killing in low sec and by their standards they are, even covering their own ship losses and growing isk as well. Hi sec mining should be done for relaxation, not for mainstay play. The greatest income in the game comes from rats. Everyone thinks mining is the cash cow when they start because they aren't aware you can kill rats in low sec with a frigate and make 3x the isk.

How much isk we have isn't the issue, how much fun we are having is.
Originally by: Phugoid
..One month ago I was close to 2 bil in my wallet, now a month later I have a lil over 1 bil!
Lost of course by some very "mean" people...

Dalloway Jones
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.08.12 21:39:00 - [126]
 

Noobs want to avoid being griefed shouldn't talk **** in local. Those that don't heed this advice deserve whatever smack down they get.

Orlacc
Posted - 2011.08.13 06:47:00 - [127]
 

Where is the OP?

Sombre Asesinos
Posted - 2011.08.13 20:30:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Originally by: Sombre Asesinos
I have no problem whatsoever with two players blasting the sh|t out of each other if they both choose to do so. You combat pvpers act like all someone has to do is "decide" to fight.

You do though, don't you? Exactly what were the circumstances of each destruction? At some point, you initiated it.
Quote:
I did my homework. In order to have stood the slightest chance in any of the fights I would need a MINIMUM of another YEAR of training. It's akin to putting a 1 year old toddler in the ring with the heavy weight champion and saying, "what's wrong, you got in the ring, get up and fight"

Getting into the situation where you are THAT outgunned is where you went wrong. It can be avoided. You can get friends. You can do 1001 things to turn the tables. The ability of a complete noob getting kills is long established.
Quote:
If everyone doesn't do it your way then they are wrong

Your way seems to be to lose, then talk **** about it. I mean, we can try that, but most of us are pretty set on not being the victim.
Quote:
Someone cruising around in a 1.0 system flipping cans in their T3 cruiser is the worst kind of scum

LOL NO. They are an absolute idiot, is what they are. Can you please tell me this pilots name LaughingLaughingLaughing


1) - Let's see, the first time I got killed I was mining in the freebie ship in a 1.0 system, got can-flipped, being new I thought the guy made a mistake and was giving it back.
2) - The second time I got killed I was again in the freebie ship, I warped into a 0.4 system. I died the instant I uncloaked from a single shot from 425mm autocannon on a Hurricane, the second shot took out my pod.
3) - The third time I got killed I was in a Brutix that I think was pretty solidly built. I made the mistake of hoping through a wormhole and trying to explore the system there. I was attacked and incinerated in about 4 seconds. Based on the combat logs I was attacked by a Drake, 2 x Tengu, Templest Fleet Issue, and an Apocalypse. I spoke with the three that killed me, well the one that spoke English as they were Russian. I asked them if they'd be willing to let me mine in that system if I shared the ore. He said, "Everyone hates a neutral!" (I still don't know what that means), I also got the distinct impression he didn't care for Americans either so I wished them luck and closed the channel.

The only way I initiated the fights is by being new and being an easy target. I've met a fair number of people up to this point that have never set foot (or would that be thruster) in lowsec or null, some have been around for a long time.

Oh well, I could try to offer a voice of reason all I want, but it'll just get twisted back on me so I'll leave your forums now.

Magnus Veyr
Posted - 2011.08.13 20:40:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Magnus Veyr on 13/08/2011 20:42:26
So out of those 3 times, two of them were your own fault (newbies making a newbie mistake is logical).

When you wanted to jump into low sec you got a WARNING which kinda translated to "HERE BE DRAGONS, abandon all hope ye who enter!", you clicked "yeah sure, no problem" and thus you entered. How is dying in low sec anything other than your own doing? And the same thing again with that WH.

If you're gonna be dumb you gotta be tough, remember that one? Stop doing the "sure, whatever why not" nonsense, LEARN, ask QUESTIONS before doing something then, I dunno you might actually survive. Do we need to put a warning sticker on your microwave stating "don't put your dog or cat in here to dry it", because fck me I bet you'd do that and then sue the guys who sold you that microwave.

Newbies making newbie mistakes is ok, but dear god you do like to drag this **** on and it's all your OWN fault. Thing is, it's not even DIFFICULT to survive in low sec, anyone who puts in like an hour of reading or listening survives just fine in low sec. Google some guides or perhaps some youtube tutorials, you know EFFORT.

Sombre Asesinos
Posted - 2011.08.13 21:15:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Magnus Veyr
Edited by: Magnus Veyr on 13/08/2011 20:42:26
Quote:
So out of those 3 times, two of them were your own fault (newbies making a newbie mistake is logical).

When you wanted to jump into low sec you got a WARNING which kinda translated to "HERE BE DRAGONS, abandon all hope ye who enter!", you clicked "yeah sure, no problem" and thus you entered. How is dying in low sec anything other than your own doing? And the same thing again with that WH.

If you're gonna be dumb you gotta be tough, remember that one? Stop doing the "sure, whatever why not" nonsense, LEARN, ask QUESTIONS before doing something then, I dunno you might actually survive. Do we need to put a warning sticker on your microwave stating "don't put your dog or cat in here to dry it", because fck me I bet you'd do that and then sue the guys who sold you that microwave.


LOL

I don't need a warning label on my appliances, but there really should be a No Trespassing sign on the forum index page.

The first two were newbie mistakes. The third... what do you do when you run into Five ships? You try to get away, when that fails which it did, you die.

My only complaint from the start is the way new players are treated by experienced players and CCP. Then I added the idea that perhaps we don't all like to play the same way when the "PvPers" started throwing insults, as is evidenced below.

I made two newbie mistakes, I moved on. The third, I got surprised by five others. That's not stupid (unless you consider I was by myself) it was just unlucky. Because of attacks and insults like yours, in my mind (and others) PvPer has become equated with people that choose to be rude and disrespectiveful any time someone doesn't agree with them.

Quote:
Newbies making newbie mistakes is ok, but dear god you do like to drag this **** on and it's all your OWN fault. Thing is, it's not even DIFFICULT to survive in low sec, anyone who puts in like an hour of reading or listening survives just fine in low sec. Google some guides or perhaps some youtube tutorials, you know EFFORT.



As far as "drag this **** on", I'm no different than anyone else, I don't like to be belittled and called names.

It may take time but I will eventually learn to be as ruthless and cruel as some others.

Magnus Veyr
Posted - 2011.08.13 21:36:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Magnus Veyr on 13/08/2011 21:38:33
Before you entered the WH didn't you think "hmm this might be dangerous", did you ask in your corp or perhaps in the help channel. Did you, at any point before entering the WH, perhaps read the Wiki on WHs or searched for other guides. Because they will ALL tell you that WH space is a free for all and that bringing in a slow BC while lacking experience is probably going to end badly? What were you thinking?

Seriously, we as a community have no problems with newbies and we're happy to help out the ones who go "hmm ok, that hurt. What can I change to do better next time". We ENCOURAGE that behaviour and you'll find that anyone acting like that, asking questions etc, will get all the friendly help available.

You'll also find that people who point fingers elsewhere for the problems they created themselves, and keep on not learning from their mistakes and continue to blame other, those get a different treatment.


EVE is a harsh open PVP based game, it might not always look like it but it seeps through in the vast majority of things you can do. The result is that it's a competitive game where people who just "do whatever without thinking" end up getting taken advantage of. You don't necessarily have to engage in that stuff or even agree to that train of thought, as long as you realise that it's the case.

So instead of not thinking about possible repercussions to your actions, instead do an assessment for everything you do, figuring out what the possible downsides might be by reading forums, guides and asking other players. Then once you feel that you have a decent idea then come up with a worst case scenario and THEN decide if you should go ahead or not. If you do it anyway and it turns out bad then you knew it was bound to happen. If it turns out better then you were lucky, in either case you learnt something (hopefully).

The result of using this type of thinking is that every time you lose a ship or something else, every time it was your own doing either by making an active mistake or by letting others do something to you because of you being passive. Every death in EVE (apart from exploits or connection issues) is always one's own doing and could have been avoided, even at a young age with low SP and a ****ty ship.

They killed you because you let them. Seriously, let that sink in.

Riedle
Minmatar
Paradox Collective
Posted - 2011.08.13 23:22:00 - [132]
 

lol if you think someone blowing up your imaginary, internet spaceship in a MMORPG about blowing up other people's imaginary, internet spaceships is "cruel and ruthless" then you have led a blessed life to this point sir and you should be thankful for your innocence and niavite.


Marisai
Posted - 2011.08.14 10:47:00 - [133]
 

Before I start, let me state that I'm a newbie also. I played about 3-4 years ago for a couple months, and just picked the game back up a couple weeks ago. Now, I have to admit I wasn't completely blind to what goes on in this game, as I have friends that have played in the past and, with my current job, I have PLENTY of free time to read and research.

The most glaring point I can see in this conversation is that the OP and the others that have had similar issues and take the same attitude allowed the incidents to take place. I've found that this is a game where you really need to be very familiar with the concepts of situational awareness and constructive paranoia at all times, and not let one's guard down for even an instant. While it may sound a bit counter to those of us in democratic societies, I've found in this game that any PC ship in my overview in ANY system is potentially hostile until I determine otherwise is the primary attitude to take. (Which makes places like Jita a real treat for me to fly through, I can assure you. :) )

The other thing I'm seeing is that these people allowed someone else to dictate the terms of the engagement. Mining (in any ship) and not being aware of your surroundings at all times means that you're allowing someone else to determine the outcome. Flying into low-sec in a ship that will be outclassed by any other ship present in those areas is just, for the lack of a better term, stupid. Heck, the Ibis-type ship is really only useful for one thing outside of the initial game tutorial - a way to get to a more capable ship without having to pod all the way there.

Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2011.08.14 14:26:00 - [134]
 

Sombre,

You sound like a "switched on" person, so I wouldn't like to see you leave, without finding your feet.

You have, however, made some mistakes. In each instance you have mentioned, there was a warning box, literally telling you, that you were putting yourself at risk.

I know out there in the real world, we're warned not to put babies in microwaves, but in Eve, a warning is actually quite proportional to the risk you are putting yourself to.

Do you think the game would be better, if a new player in Battlecruiser, COULD be on equal footing with several players, each in ships more powerful than his own? You did chose, afterall, to go into an area of nullsec space, alone, without previously scouting to see what was there. Even as a new player, it is possible to use YOUR current skills AND ships, both for PVE or PVP. I know this because we recruit such guys into our corp. One uses a Brutix, too Smile

Signal11th
Posted - 2011.08.15 09:44:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Otto VonFaart
As I said, the Corp member who was mining was new to the game... newer than me and I'd only been playing 3 days at that point. He didn't know any of the stuff you people have suggested that he know, as he had not had time in game enough to learn.

Suggestions to "just get over it" aren't good enough.

Some of us have very limited patience with *ssholes. I am one of them.


No offence but you will have to "just get over it" unfortunately EVE attracts what is seemingly a large amount of pond life. High Sec is safe/ish as long as you take certain precautions and learn about the game.

Unfortunately you will always have uber elite high sec warriors who will gank nublets because frankly they are pretty lame at anything else and its easy.

Emiko Luan
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.15 13:51:00 - [136]
 

If you threaten someone ingame or in real life, you deserve everything you get.

Thornat
Posted - 2011.08.15 13:52:00 - [137]
 

As a player who has played this game for 6 years and is now making an alt and training 3 newbie players simultanously I'm going to give you some advice here that I think you should take to heart. I didn't read all the replies in this post so some of this may be repeated, sorry about that.

1. Reputation: First thing you need to realize is that you don't have a "I don't like how this character is going so I will start over" option. Eve is a time commitment game and once you have earned a couple of million skill points starting over with a new character is just too much of a step backwards, unless like me you are building an alt. Hence the reputation you create for your character will follow you in Eve and believe me when I say after 6 years I post with my throw away alt for good reason. A lot of people know me in game, many people want to kill me in game for **** I did and said and that reputation is part of my Eve life. Rule number one is watch your mouth, don't take **** so personally and maintain your cool. Being in control of your reputation through the proper attitude will earn you respect. Mouthing off will get you war deced. Just like on the playground.

2. Your Corp is your support system. Being part of a corporation is more than just a guild of faceless people who happen to be in the same guild together. Your corp is your crutch, you and your corp mates are in it together and when you get war deced, you fight together win or loose. There is no "Im going to do my own thing". If you have ten guys, newbies or not and you got war deced you have the advantage I don't care what he is flying. Fly together, fight together and solve your in game problems together. If the people in your corp don't have that attitude you are in the wrong corp and you have chosen your in game friends poorly.

3. Everyone Fights. People join Eve thinking they can master the markets, manufacture the world and mine to their hearts content without ever firing a shot at another player. Those people in Eve we refer to as victims and targets. Everyone fights in Eve, if your not ready for that you will hate Eve and this is not a game for you. Learn to fight, even if you only plan to do so when defending yourself, even if you spend all your time avoiding a fight. In Eve, eventually everyone will have to fight. See rule number two for details.

4. Solve your own problems: Eve is a game in which players are expected to solve their own problems when in a corp you solve them together (see rule number 2). No amount of whining, crying, *****ing, moaning, wishing or begging is going to change that. You have a problem. A guy is griefing you, he war deced you and he wants your isk. How are you going to solve that problem with you and your corp mates. Be creative, think, plan and execute.

5. Be Brave and Be Rewarded: Newbie or not, Eve favors the bold. Hiding in your hanger and High sec asteroids is alright for the first few days but eventually you have to go out their and make something happen. Be bold. See rule number 2.

Finally last but not least. Win with respect and loose with dignity. You want that A hole griefer to leave you alone, put up a fight. If you loose you have your dignity. If you win, show him respect as your opponent.

Thats my advice, Eve IS cruel you are right, but what better way to spend your gaming time than in a game that tests you in the same way life does. Get into the role of your in game character. Your a CEO, show some spunk.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.15 14:23:00 - [138]
 

Edited by: Velicitia on 15/08/2011 14:25:27
Picking out the really good stuff here... edited to fit characters and play up the important bits.
Originally by: Thornat

1. Reputation: Being in control of your reputation through the proper attitude will earn you respect.


See: Chribba as an example.

Originally by: Thornat
2. Your Corp is your support system. There is no "Im going to do my own thing". Fly together, fight together and solve your in game problems together. If the people in your corp don't have that attitude you are in the wrong corp and you have chosen your in game friends poorly.



^Exactly this. You're not in a guild to raid some NPC city for the 13th time this year... you're in a corporation that strives to control *something*.

And other corporations don't want you to succeed.


Originally by: Thornat
3. Everyone fights in Eve, if your not ready for that you will hate Eve and this is not a game for you. Learn to fight, even if you only plan to do so when defending yourself, even if you spend all your time avoiding a fight. In Eve, eventually everyone will have to fight.


Yes. Essentially, be that quiet kid on the playground that no one ****s with, because they know you'll win.

Originally by: Thornat
4. Solve your own problems: Eve is a game in which players are expected to solve their own problems when in a corp you solve them together (see rule number 2). Be creative, think, plan and execute.


A lot of times, when the other guys "know" you can't fight, they "know" you'll hide in station and that they're free to do what they like ... running missions, for example.

Originally by: Thornat
Eve favors the bold.


Indeed. Dare to be bold, pilot.

Kro0k
Gallente
EVE Evacuation
Posted - 2011.08.15 16:33:00 - [139]
 

Edited by: Kro0k on 15/08/2011 16:33:29
16 frigates VS. one noob who can flips in a battle cruiser.

Epic win on the frigates part...

Arabelli Tanis
Posted - 2011.08.21 12:54:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Otto VonFaart
The fact that this sort of grief play specifically targeting noobs is not prohibited will cause some players to abandon EVE after their trial period. Others, like me who either subscribe or have purchased the Commissioned Officer Edition (DVD) will certainly consider leaving the EVE community.

How does that old saying go again? Something about sorting out the wheat from the chaff?

I'm an EVE noob myself with maybe 45 days as of this post. Though I've never been stupid enough to shoot someone from taking ore from my can, I've had my share of noob moments. I've transported goods in an essentially defenseless transport and been blown up in high-sec for it. I've wandered into 0.4 because a level 2 mission sent me there and lost my cruiser to pirates. These are things that are obviously dumb to me now, but I was so inexperienced at the time I didn't know any better.

The difference between you and me? I didn't cry about it in local. I didn't make a forum post about it. I certainly didn't become delusional and think the game should change as a result of MY mistakes. I LEARNED from my mistakes. I don't fly precious cargo in a ship that can be killed in a single volley and assume I'm safe because I'm in high-sec. I don't wander into low-sec with a mission fit ship and think I'll be ok because I'm doing a deadspace encounter.

That's what EVE is all about. It's a cut-throat game where no one is safe. We all have to learn from our mistakes and get better. Just like in real life, you often have to do something wrong before you learn to do it right.

The #1 rule in EVE, which I have learned first hand - do not fly anything you cannot afford to lose.

Vol Arm'OOO
Posted - 2011.08.21 14:02:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Sombre Asesinos
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Originally by: Sombre Asesinos
I have no problem whatsoever with two players blasting the sh|t out of each other if they both choose to do so. You combat pvpers act like all someone has to do is "decide" to fight.

You do though, don't you? Exactly what were the circumstances of each destruction? At some point, you initiated it.
Quote:
I did my homework. In order to have stood the slightest chance in any of the fights I would need a MINIMUM of another YEAR of training. It's akin to putting a 1 year old toddler in the ring with the heavy weight champion and saying, "what's wrong, you got in the ring, get up and fight"

Getting into the situation where you are THAT outgunned is where you went wrong. It can be avoided. You can get friends. You can do 1001 things to turn the tables. The ability of a complete noob getting kills is long established.
Quote:
If everyone doesn't do it your way then they are wrong

Your way seems to be to lose, then talk **** about it. I mean, we can try that, but most of us are pretty set on not being the victim.
Quote:
Someone cruising around in a 1.0 system flipping cans in their T3 cruiser is the worst kind of scum

LOL NO. They are an absolute idiot, is what they are. Can you please tell me this pilots name LaughingLaughingLaughing


1) - Let's see, the first time I got killed I was mining in the freebie ship in a 1.0 system, got can-flipped, being new I thought the guy made a mistake and was giving it back.
2) - The second time I got killed I was again in the freebie ship, I warped into a 0.4 system. I died the instant I uncloaked from a single shot from 425mm autocannon on a Hurricane, the second shot took out my pod.
3) - The third time I got killed I was in a Brutix that I think was pretty solidly built. I made the mistake of hoping through a wormhole and trying to explore the system there. I was attacked and incinerated in about 4 seconds. Based on the combat logs I was attacked by a Drake, 2 x Tengu, Templest Fleet Issue, and an Apocalypse. I spoke with the three that killed me, well the one that spoke English as they were Russian. I asked them if they'd be willing to let me mine in that system if I shared the ore. He said, "Everyone hates a neutral!" (I still don't know what that means), I also got the distinct impression he didn't care for Americans either so I wished them luck and closed the channel.

The only way I initiated the fights is by being new and being an easy target. I've met a fair number of people up to this point that have never set foot (or would that be thruster) in lowsec or null, some have been around for a long time.

Oh well, I could try to offer a voice of reason all I want, but it'll just get twisted back on me so I'll leave your forums now.


All pvp in eve is consensual(with the notable exception of suiciding). You never have to fight in eve if you dont want to. Dont want to fight a can flipper, dont touch the can. Dont want to lose a ship to a blob or pirates dont go to null or low. Dont want to bother with that war dec, join a npc corp and wait them out.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.08.22 06:25:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Vol Arm'OOO
All pvp in eve is consensual(with the notable exception of suiciding).


Actually the moment you hit the "Undock" button in EvE means you say "Please shoot at my ship, I dare you!". Some people will take you up on that dare.


Gibbeous Moon
Posted - 2011.08.22 09:59:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: foksieloy
Originally by: Vol Arm'OOO
All pvp in eve is consensual(with the notable exception of suiciding).


Actually the moment you hit the "Undock" button in EvE means you say "Please shoot at my ship, I dare you!". Some people will take you up on that dare.




I am speaking from my smouldering capsule and I can confirm this to be so...

Vol Arm'OOO
Posted - 2011.08.22 13:40:00 - [144]
 

Edited by: Vol Arm''OOO on 22/08/2011 13:42:56
Originally by: foksieloy
Originally by: Vol Arm'OOO
All pvp in eve is consensual(with the notable exception of suiciding).


Actually the moment you hit the "Undock" button in EvE means you say "Please shoot at my ship, I dare you!". Some people will take you up on that dare.




As I pointed out in my post, suiciding is the exception to the rule in eve. Apart from the ability to suicide someone's ship, eve is entirely consensual pvp. Eve as an open world pvp game is largely myth. Its a large safe area (empire) (edit - ok not entirely safe, but safer nonetheless) with borderlands in which you can agree to engage in pvp or not as you wish by entering into those areas. War decs in empire are completely broken since you can always avoid the war dec by leaving your corp (hell, you dont even have to do that, just don't undock and play your alt during the dec). As for can flippers and salvage ninja, you never have to engage such folk. Back to suiciding for a sec, the risk from such activities is miniscule. Sure it happens, but you can reduce your risk greatly by moving to a less populated system. By paying attention and tanking your ship (if it is a mining) ship or keeping its total value relatively low (if its a missioning ship) you can reduce your risk of suicide act even more. In short, those complaining about their inability to carebear because of the harshness of the game are full of crap. The difficulty of obtaining true open world style pvp battles in eve is the bigger problem as i c it.


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