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Khamelean
Posted - 2011.07.05 05:15:00 - [1]
 

If you have ever used the phrase "I will never do X", you are a liar. I don't doubt that you said that phrase with the best of intentions, but the simple fact is you do not know the future, how ever remote the possibility of you doing X is, you can't know for certain that those circumstances will never arise.

What you meant to say was "I have no intention of doing X". That is the only honest way to make such a statement.

"But CCP said they had 'no plans' for micro transactions, now they have them, they are liars!".

Plans change, at the time the statement was made, it was made to the best of their knowledge. How can it be a lie if the person saying it believes it is the truth?

Could it be possible that CCP's plans may change in the future? Yes, it is very possible. But that does not mean CCP are trying to deceive us. They are simply being as honest with us as they can. They cannot see the future. There may well come a time when 99% of the player base demands non-vanit items.

Micro-transactions were not sprung on us out of the blue. They have been under discussion for months and for the most part received community approval (with a few constraints, one of them being vanity items only). If CCP's plans change and non-vanity items end up back on the table, the community will hear about it, and it will respond loudly.




Craven Aleros
Posted - 2011.07.05 05:26:00 - [2]
 

I will never be the President of the US of A.
I will never give birth.
I will never go faster than the speed of light (in a vacuum).
I will never be Superman Sad

Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.07.05 05:27:00 - [3]
 

Quote:
"But CCP said they had 'no plans' for micro transactions, now they have them, they are liars!".

Plans change, at the time the statement was made, it was made to the best of their knowledge. How can it be a lie if the person saying it believes it is the truth?


The bigger problem here is that, when they said they had "no plans" for microtransactions, it was only a year ago.

So, to believe that, you have to believe they went from "no plans" to "planned, designed, developed, and implemented" in less than a year. That is very unlikely and you would be very stupid to believe that. It is far more likely that it was a lie when it was said and is not a comparatively innocent case of "plans change".

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.05 05:28:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Craven Aleros
I will never be the President of the US of A.
I will never give birth.
I will never go faster than the speed of light (in a vacuum).
I will never be Superman Sad


Liar!

Khamelean
Posted - 2011.07.05 05:35:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Craven Aleros
I will never be the President of the US of A.
I will never give birth.
I will never go faster than the speed of light (in a vacuum).
I will never be Superman Sad


You have no imagination, that makes me sad :(

Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.05 05:42:00 - [6]
 

The t20 the moon goo out of nothing being reported and used for 3 years before taking action. The .ini fiasco. The Dev/GM's missusing their power and calling basically player base little *****es. The overall utterly fail level of coding quality. The non existent innovation for 2 years sorry 18 months.
And now this pile of steaming horse****. Even without the leaks CCP lol one room and stupid trinket store?

As someone who was here and stuck with them through all of that I can say. Yes they are lying.

But as is great about Democracy you can vote with your wallet and I did accounts will run out and I am out this time forever was fun 6 years but not going to give my money to this company no more.

They are not going to change they are corporations

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.07.05 05:43:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Khamelean
If you have ever used the phrase "I will never do X", you are a liar. I don't doubt that you said that phrase with the best of intentions, but the simple fact is you do not know the future, how ever remote the possibility of you doing X is, you can't know for certain that those circumstances will never arise.

What you meant to say was "I have no intention of doing X". That is the only honest way to make such a statement.

"But CCP said they had 'no plans' for micro transactions, now they have them, they are liars!".

Plans change, at the time the statement was made, it was made to the best of their knowledge. How can it be a lie if the person saying it believes it is the truth?

Could it be possible that CCP's plans may change in the future? Yes, it is very possible. But that does not mean CCP are trying to deceive us. They are simply being as honest with us as they can. They cannot see the future. There may well come a time when 99% of the player base demands non-vanit items.

Micro-transactions were not sprung on us out of the blue. They have been under discussion for months and for the most part received community approval (with a few constraints, one of them being vanity items only). If CCP's plans change and non-vanity items end up back on the table, the community will hear about it, and it will respond loudly.







Dude, if your post was any more grammatically perfect I would swear you were either a CCP alt or part of some propoganda team.

If you are neither, good engrish bro.

Kosma Zenobius
Posted - 2011.07.05 05:56:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Llambda
Quote:
"But CCP said they had 'no plans' for micro transactions, now they have them, they are liars!".

Plans change, at the time the statement was made, it was made to the best of their knowledge. How can it be a lie if the person saying it believes it is the truth?


The bigger problem here is that, when they said they had "no plans" for microtransactions, it was only a year ago.

So, to believe that, you have to believe they went from "no plans" to "planned, designed, developed, and implemented" in less than a year. That is very unlikely and you would be very stupid to believe that. It is far more likely that it was a lie when it was said and is not a comparatively innocent case of "plans change".


I would be VERY disappointed in CCP if they couldn't build the current NEX store in less than a year.

One or two months for the designs, a month to code, a month to integrate sounds very reasonable to me.

Weeble Tauri
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.05 05:58:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Pod Amarr
The t20 the moon goo out of nothing being reported and used for 3 years before taking action. The .ini fiasco. The Dev/GM's missusing their power and calling basically player base little *****es. The overall utterly fail level of coding quality. The non existent innovation for 2 years sorry 18 months.
And now this pile of steaming horse****. Even without the leaks CCP lol one room and stupid trinket store?

As someone who was here and stuck with them through all of that I can say. Yes they are lying.

But as is great about Democracy you can vote with your wallet and I did accounts will run out and I am out this time forever was fun 6 years but not going to give my money to this company no more.

They are not going to change they are corporations


Can I have your stuff?

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.05 06:17:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Pod Amarr
The t20 the moon goo out of nothing being reported and used for 3 years before taking action. The .ini fiasco. The Dev/GM's missusing their power and calling basically player base little *****es. The overall utterly fail level of coding quality. The non existent innovation for 2 years sorry 18 months.
And now this pile of steaming horse****. Even without the leaks CCP lol one room and stupid trinket store?

As someone who was here and stuck with them through all of that I can say. Yes they are lying.

But as is great about Democracy you can vote with your wallet and I did accounts will run out and I am out this time forever was fun 6 years but not going to give my money to this company no more.

They are not going to change they are corporations


Lets see:

T20 is a single dev, whose actions brought about the creation of an internal affairs dept. within CCP.
The inability to verify the creation of moon goo out of nothing was a failure in procedure, not a lie.
The .ini issue was just stupid, but affected a small fraction of the player base... and was not a lie.
I have seen no other issues beside T20 about GM abuse of power.
I have not seen CCP call the players little *****es (which still wouldn't be a lie). All I have seen is them say they will pay more attention to what the player base as a whole does and not to the forum *****s.
EVE always has been, and continues to be a superb game. One which does on a daily basis things that no other game has come close to doing.
Incarna is a considerable innovation to the game, just not to the space aspect of the game.

As someone who has stuck with them since beta, yeah, I can say that while they often have problems with communicating everything the community would like, they do communicate far more than any other gaming company out there... and with rare exception they have been very, very above board as a company.

So swish your cheeks on out the door chucklehead.


Redblade
Reikoku
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.07.05 06:26:00 - [11]
 

The people who carry on about "you didn't phrase it in X Y or Z way so i can make an argument not even a 7 year old would buy in to" should just quit, the simple fact is that they would never have been satisfied with the outcome.

If CCP would have said "We will never ever ever ever ever do anything but vanity items in the Nex or any other shop we could possibly think of" those people would have gone "How do we know you are not lying to us right now" or any similar poor excuse.

So pretty please with cream and sugar on top, just GTFO.

Arnaud Lefevre
Posted - 2011.07.05 06:48:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Arnaud Lefevre on 05/07/2011 14:31:03
Originally by: Khamelean
If you have ever used the phrase "I will never do X", you are a liar. I don't doubt that you said that phrase with the best of intentions, but the simple fact is you do not know the future, how ever remote the possibility of you doing X is, you can't know for certain that those circumstances will never arise.

What you meant to say was "I have no intention of doing X". That is the only honest way to make such a statement.

"But CCP said they had 'no plans' for micro transactions, now they have them, they are liars!".

Plans change, at the time the statement was made, it was made to the best of their knowledge. How can it be a lie if the person saying it believes it is the truth?

Could it be possible that CCP's plans may change in the future? Yes, it is very possible. But that does not mean CCP are trying to deceive us. They are simply being as honest with us as they can. They cannot see the future. There may well come a time when 99% of the player base demands non-vanit items.

Micro-transactions were not sprung on us out of the blue. They have been under discussion for months and for the most part received community approval (with a few constraints, one of them being vanity items only). If CCP's plans change and non-vanity items end up back on the table, the community will hear about it, and it will respond loudly.




I don't really get this, are you saying that to hold CCP to an absolute standard is onerous? I think that any agreement CSM can reach is binding in honor only, so neither side is bound legally to do, or not to do, anything exactly, so in the end it must be about trust.

Do you mean, or are you saying that without any trust the process is meaningless and to require absolute language is a denial of trust?

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.05 07:11:00 - [13]
 

CCP may well have no plans for non-vanity MTs and of course that change, but that's OK,

You see, I have no plans to quit Eve, but that can change as well.

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.07.05 09:50:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
CCP may well have no plans for non-vanity MTs and of course that change, but that's OK,

You see, I have no plans to quit Eve, but that can change as well.


Oh SNAP!

Wel played sir, wel played indeed!

Indusy
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:05:00 - [15]
 

Russia has no plans for dropping a few nuclear bombs along EU and USA. Should I be worried and leave my country because they haven't stated that they will not?

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:08:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Indusy
Russia has no plans for dropping a few nuclear bombs along EU and USA. Should I be worried and leave my country because they haven't stated that they will not?


No but you should be worried if you think that analogy has anything at all to do with this discussion.

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:11:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Pod Amarr
The t20 the moon goo out of nothing being reported and used for 3 years before taking action. The .ini fiasco. The Dev/GM's missusing their power and calling basically player base little *****es. The overall utterly fail level of coding quality. The non existent innovation for 2 years sorry 18 months.
And now this pile of steaming horse****. Even without the leaks CCP lol one room and stupid trinket store?

As someone who was here and stuck with them through all of that I can say. Yes they are lying.

But as is great about Democracy you can vote with your wallet and I did accounts will run out and I am out this time forever was fun 6 years but not going to give my money to this company no more.

They are not going to change they are corporations


Lets see:

T20 is a single dev, whose actions brought about the creation of an internal affairs dept. within CCP.
The inability to verify the creation of moon goo out of nothing was a failure in procedure, not a lie.
The .ini issue was just stupid, but affected a small fraction of the player base... and was not a lie.
I have seen no other issues beside T20 about GM abuse of power.
I have not seen CCP call the players little *****es (which still wouldn't be a lie). All I have seen is them say they will pay more attention to what the player base as a whole does and not to the forum *****s.
EVE always has been, and continues to be a superb game. One which does on a daily basis things that no other game has come close to doing.
Incarna is a considerable innovation to the game, just not to the space aspect of the game.

As someone who has stuck with them since beta, yeah, I can say that while they often have problems with communicating everything the community would like, they do communicate far more than any other gaming company out there... and with rare exception they have been very, very above board as a company.

So swish your cheeks on out the door chucklehead.




you're just an a$$ hole Ranger, I hate to think what sort of douche you are in RL.

My Postman
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:33:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
CCP may well have no plans for non-vanity MTs and of course that change, but that's OK,

You see, I have no plans to quit Eve, but that can change as well.


What this guy said!

Personally, i feel that this discussion is over by the stated plan of no gold ammo or else. If CCP changes their mind, again, very much what above guy said.

Kidara Malfasian
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:55:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: My Postman
Originally by: Rodj Blake
CCP may well have no plans for non-vanity MTs and of course that change, but that's OK,

You see, I have no plans to quit Eve, but that can change as well.


What this guy said!

Personally, i feel that this discussion is over by the stated plan of no gold ammo or else. If CCP changes their mind, again, very much what above guy said.


And that's perfectly normal from a consumer standpoint. People drop brands or stop shopping at particular stores or eateries every day.

What they don't do is make some drama queen production out of it like MMO players feel they are required to do.

Callean Drevus
Caldari
Icosahedron Crafts and Shipping
Silent Infinity
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:56:00 - [20]
 

Never say never.

Arnaud Lefevre
Posted - 2011.07.05 13:14:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
CCP may well have no plans for non-vanity MTs and of course that change, but that's OK,

You see, I have no plans to quit Eve, but that can change as well.


I agree with this, we wouldn't, indeed shouldn't give an absolute undertaking that we would neither protest nor unsub that would be ludicrous, so what right have we to demand CCP make such a statement, we retain our discretion to act and so do they. However, in the mean time we proceed on the basis of trust, which is in both our interests.

Maddi5on
Posted - 2011.07.05 13:16:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Craven Aleros
I will never be the President of the US of A.
I will never give birth.
I will never go faster than the speed of light (in a vacuum).
I will never be Superman Sad


I Have no plans to be the President of the US of A.
I Have no plans to give birth.
I Have no plans to go faster than the speed of light (in a vacuum).
I Have no plans to be Superman

A lifetaker
Posted - 2011.07.05 13:18:00 - [23]
 

the transactions arent exactly micro. . .

so they didnt lie

Aquana Abyss
Posted - 2011.07.05 13:21:00 - [24]
 


I will not die. I have no plans to die.

Both statements are correct - For I am the Highlander!!!!

However if CCP ever introduce Non-vanity MT in Eve then Eve has gone suicidal and wants to die.

The end.

Erik CoolBreeze
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.05 13:22:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Craven Aleros
I will never be the President of the US of A.
agreed

I will never give birth.
Science advances every day

I will never go faster than the speed of light (in a vacuum).
See the science comment above

I will never be Superman Sad
agreed




Cpt Fina
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
Posted - 2011.07.05 13:23:00 - [26]
 

I will never say that I never said "I will never say", truthfully.

There.

ZyferDK
Posted - 2011.07.05 13:23:00 - [27]
 

hey OP its all over now, there is no reason to act like a tough guy.

sit back and relax and play the game, and you know what, he didnt even get a single damn chance to say anything because that other dude had to talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and there was a point where i was yelling just shut the **** up and let CCP speak instead god damnit

Puss in Boots
Posted - 2011.07.05 13:27:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Aquana Abyss

I will not die. I have no plans to die.

Both statements are correct - For I am the Highlander!!!!

However if CCP ever introduce Non-vanity MT in Eve then Eve has gone suicidal and wants to die.

The end.


My problem with all the 12 year olds and their angry German kid tantrums is the dwelling on the "IF" part as if they look in Nex and see all this mystical gold ammo that doesn't exist. Stop the insanity and stop being stupid.

Stop complaining about stuff that doesn't exist and logon and enjoy the game.... oh right, it's still down tee hee.Embarassed

Aquana Abyss
Posted - 2011.07.05 13:29:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: San Severina
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Pod Amarr
The t20 the moon goo out of nothing being reported and used for 3 years before taking action. The .ini fiasco. The Dev/GM's missusing their power and calling basically player base little *****es. The overall utterly fail level of coding quality. The non existent innovation for 2 years sorry 18 months.
And now this pile of steaming horse****. Even without the leaks CCP lol one room and stupid trinket store?

As someone who was here and stuck with them through all of that I can say. Yes they are lying.

But as is great about Democracy you can vote with your wallet and I did accounts will run out and I am out this time forever was fun 6 years but not going to give my money to this company no more.

They are not going to change they are corporations


Lets see:

T20 is a single dev, whose actions brought about the creation of an internal affairs dept. within CCP.
The inability to verify the creation of moon goo out of nothing was a failure in procedure, not a lie.
The .ini issue was just stupid, but affected a small fraction of the player base... and was not a lie.
I have seen no other issues beside T20 about GM abuse of power.
I have not seen CCP call the players little *****es (which still wouldn't be a lie). All I have seen is them say they will pay more attention to what the player base as a whole does and not to the forum *****s.
EVE always has been, and continues to be a superb game. One which does on a daily basis things that no other game has come close to doing.
Incarna is a considerable innovation to the game, just not to the space aspect of the game.

As someone who has stuck with them since beta, yeah, I can say that while they often have problems with communicating everything the community would like, they do communicate far more than any other gaming company out there... and with rare exception they have been very, very above board as a company.

So swish your cheeks on out the door chucklehead.




you're just an a$$ hole Ranger, I hate to think what sort of douche you are in RL.


Oh, and This. You lost respect from most people on the forum years ago with your sanctimonious a-hole comments and blind faith to CCP. Congrats on that.

Arnaud Lefevre
Posted - 2011.07.05 14:26:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Puss in Boots
Originally by: Aquana Abyss

I will not die. I have no plans to die.

Both statements are correct - For I am the Highlander!!!!

However if CCP ever introduce Non-vanity MT in Eve then Eve has gone suicidal and wants to die.

The end.


My problem with all the 12 year olds and their angry German kid tantrums is the dwelling on the "IF" part as if they look in Nex and see all this mystical gold ammo that doesn't exist. Stop the insanity and stop being stupid.

Stop complaining about stuff that doesn't exist and logon and enjoy the game.... oh right, it's still down tee hee.Embarassed


Excuse me but the teenagers of all nationalities provided angry tantrums of comparable quality and intensity in this undertaking, it was by no means simply a German achievement.


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