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Dr Lebroi
Posted - 2011.07.05 09:44:00 - [121]
 

I have no affiliation to CSM or it's members but I do think they should be extended a little respect for dropping everything and going to Iceland. Seriously, how many people on this forum would actually get on a plane from USA to Iceland with a day and a halfs notice? Not that many I bet.

As to the result for the summit. It played out as real world diplomacy always plays out. All sides got a little of what they wanted but no one was an out right winner that's how it goes. I know your moms and dads always paint your room the colour you want it but when you get older you realise that sometimes you have to use whatever paint is cheapest in the shop. PEACE.

Tanya Fox
Posted - 2011.07.05 09:48:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
I'm not through beating CCP with my big ****ing stick, are you?



There are people who protest because they feel it's the right thing to do at the time and there are people who protest because it makes them feel important. I think you fall into the latter group.

You have not even given CCP much time do anything about what was discussed. So you want them to do what you want, but you don't have the backing of most of the protesters.

You can theorise all you want about what the future holds but that does not mean you can tell the future anymore than I can. Sure we can have an idea of what it might be like based on our experiences in life and other MMOs in this case, but that does not mean we would be necessarily right.

As a friend used to say who's no longer with us,'cross those bridges when you come to them' another words stop worrying about things that have not happened yet. If it becomes clear in the future that non-vanity items will be introduced (based on fact) then there will be more protesting. But now is not the time, you have to give CCP time to actually be able to do something.

Now is not the time to protest unless you like protesting for the sake of it of course.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.07.05 09:54:00 - [123]
 

Dear OP,

I think you're expecting definite solutions as a result of mass protest. Mass protests can rarely communicate defined arguments - by simple merit of them being 'mass' or of many points of view.

In simple terms the protesters consisted of a large group of players each with particular complaints they wanted addressed from CCP's communications issues, to NeX costs, to 'gold ammo'.

In that respect the win/fail conditions were based upon:

"We are unhappy about a number of issues, please recognise this and enter into a dialogue with us"

Which the extraordinary CSM / CCP meeting achieved. Whether we like what was communicated determines if future demonstrations of unhappiness occur, which broadly speaking has not happened.

C.

Cashcow Golden Goose
Posted - 2011.07.05 09:56:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Dr Lebroi
I have no affiliation to CSM or it's members but I do think they should be extended a little respect for dropping everything and going to Iceland. Seriously, how many people on this forum would actually get on a plane from USA to Iceland with a day and a halfs notice? Not that many I bet.


You buy my ticket, I will go literally anywhere, right now. Except the USA and anywhere recently turned into a warzone by the USA.

Seriously, test me. Buy me a ticket, I will go there, right now, and agree to regurgitate any lie you want. I'll even make a youtube video of all the lies that need regurgitating.

I will, I'll do it.
Test me.

Ladyfemke
Posted - 2011.07.05 09:56:00 - [125]
 

My own thoughts are somewhat with the OP and with the anti-protesters who critic the OP.

I will ignore the swearing, insulting and flaming that people on the forums seem they need to indulge in to get their point across, as I have promised myself that I am no longer going that route as I have in the past a little.

The protest was a partial success and for now the protesters have managed to stave off what I think will eventually become a part of EVE.

The wording of the official statements from CCP clearly appears to mirror political speak where the politicians dance all around the definitive yes/no answers that questioners demand. Whether definitive truth has become a forgotten value in todays modern real, and game life I don't know, But I have to admit that at my late age in life it seems to be that way. Don't flame me for these statements they only mirror my own thoughts of a fair number of years.

I am unsubbed, as is my life partner, a total of our four accounts at this time although we still have until August on 2 of them to run. They were unsubbed a week before this blew up so it wasn't as a result of the protests, we were just getting a little bored and wanted to go elsewhere for a while.
We have done this before, and so no we wont be giving our stuffs away, and we shall monitor EVE from afar and hope that the game doesn't change too much.

I think though regardless of what may have been won, retained or lost, the biggest loss for us is the trust in CCP to maintain their word and to refuse to commit to that kind of truthful answer that so many of us wished, even demanded as a right in exchange for our loyalty to pay our subscriptions.

Some of you may say that our loyalty isn't that great as we have left before and returned. But when here we are paying, and our subscriptions do support EVE, and that means to us anyway when we play we have a right to expect what we pay for.

I suppose whether we return in the future will depend on what direction we see the game taking.

So good luck to you all and fly safe. Oh yes please try to be nicer to each other and stop all the flames it makes us seem very immature and childish when we do it.

Cashcow Golden Goose
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:01:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Dr Lebroi
As to the result for the summit. It played out as real world diplomacy always plays out. All sides got a little of what they wanted but no one was an out right winner that's how it goes. I know your moms and dads always paint your room the colour you want it but when you get older you realise that sometimes you have to use whatever paint is cheapest in the shop. PEACE.


Yes, it did play out as real world diplomacy. One side got everything they wanted and agreed to give the other side all the publicity they need to not look like they lost out, big time.

The protesters got literally nothing. Literally. Not figuratively, literally. They simply got nothing.

CCP maintained their previously stated positions and placated the entire community at the cost of a few plane tickets, a youtube video and a few platitudiness forum posts.

I am so impressed with CCP figuratively pushing fresh excrement right down the protestors pie holes and having them love it that I am resubbing all 11 accounts. It was absolutely beautiful to watch. You can't buy entertainment like that.
Where would you go?

"Dear Sir, I want to watch roughly 5000 idiots pretend to be passionate about something and then watch 95% of them be placated with the exact same words that made them mad in the first place"
Nowhere does that service, you cannot buy it.

General Windypops
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:08:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: White Tree
If you knew anything about the living hell I've had to go through these last 5 days to get to Iceland and back you wouldn't be spouting what you're spouting now. A mixture of flight delays, missed flights, lost passports and more just so I could go to Iceland and shout at CCP for 48 hours only to crawl home (I'm STILL not home nearly 72 hours after the summit ended) and I get to come back to people sitting in their diapers crying about how we were 'bought' by CCP. You literally have no idea what you're talking about and I've actually put my physical health on the back burner for YOUR interests and so did the rest of the CSM so just chill out with the endless stream of nonsense you constantly fire at us. We're not superheroes and we made some serious sacrifices to be able to drop EVERYTHING to go to Iceland and hash this out.

We didn't get drunk and we didn't have fun because quite frankly we were too tired, too stressed and too overworked to be able to stop for a moment and consider anyone's concerns other than yours. The same can be mirrored for CCP who were genuinely worried and concerned about the problems the players had. We sat and watched as THE greatest technical achievement the company has ever put forward was perpetually overshadowed by problems. I'm sorry if you didn't get everything you wanted exactly how you wanted it but your entitlements stretch far and beyond their reach so simmer down and think about what you're saying before you say it.


Sorry, White Tree but that's an absolutely ludicrous response. Application to the CSM was entirely voluntary and you should only have thrown your hat in the ring because you WANTED to contribute. Myself, and many others willingly put ourselves forward, but the Goonswarn / NC campaign to block vote and seize control of the CSM you and Mittens decided to orchestrate put you where you are.

If you don't have the desire, energy or ability to sit on the CSM them you have only yourself (and your political agenda) to blame.

As for why the 'protest' failed I don't think it failed in the slightest. My main observation is that whilst the way CCP managed the whole issue reflected very poorly on them, the way some parts of the community conducted themselves also reflects badly on all of us. Seeing people blackmail, threaten and abuse CCP staff, coupled with the wildly inflated and blatantly false claims of unsubscriptions from thousands of faceless alts undermined our credibility, maturity and contribution to the debate.



AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:10:00 - [128]
 

Dr Lebroi - You get what you settle for.

Tanya - If you look at the quote in context, you'll see the big stick refers to unsubbing, not protesting.

Cailais - I agree that there were many points of view among the protesters. CSM did a **** poor job of condensing them, settling on the most popular/logical ones, and sticking to their guns. Even if that meant no agreement.

Cash - Pretty much.

Ladyfemke - Hope EVE becomes a game you want to come back to. Fly safe.

Late here, ttfn.

Medidranda Livoga
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:12:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Medidranda Livoga on 05/07/2011 10:15:30
It is true that players actually got nothing factual out of it and thus this CCP / CSM thing feels mostly like charade. Cool But the whole point was to:

a) Stretch this whole thing to couple weeks to dissipate some of the anger
b) This same thing also gave people time to convince themselves that it is not going to be so bad (addicts bargaining)
c) Get away with not promising things definitely (corporate leeway if you will)

The whole situation is bit like a family feud: People get really mad but unfortunately everyone loses if break-up occurs. CCP loses their meal ticket and players lose their game.

However, less players care about their game more leverage they have. Disillusioned subscriber can push the unsub button and keep it pressed without real disruption to their lives. Addicted subber will feel tremendous discomfort by not playing and is willing to compromise and be milked for more cash even if he should wail in forums for a bit.

Chuffer
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:15:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: White Tree
If you knew anything about the living hell I've had to go through these last 5 days to get to Iceland and back you wouldn't be spouting what you're spouting now. A mixture of flight delays, missed flights, lost passports and more just so I could go to Iceland and shout at CCP for 48 hours only to crawl home (I'm STILL not home nearly 72 hours after the summit ended) and I get to come back to people sitting in their diapers crying about how we were 'bought' by CCP. You literally have no idea what you're talking about and I've actually put my physical health on the back burner for YOUR interests and so did the rest of the CSM so just chill out with the endless stream of nonsense you constantly fire at us. We're not superheroes and we made some serious sacrifices to be able to drop EVERYTHING to go to Iceland and hash this out.

We didn't get drunk and we didn't have fun because quite frankly we were too tired, too stressed and too overworked to be able to stop for a moment and consider anyone's concerns other than yours. The same can be mirrored for CCP who were genuinely worried and concerned about the problems the players had. We sat and watched as THE greatest technical achievement the company has ever put forward was perpetually overshadowed by problems. I'm sorry if you didn't get everything you wanted exactly how you wanted it but your entitlements stretch far and beyond their reach so simmer down and think about what you're saying before you say it.


Your efforts and those of the rest of the CSM group are greatly appreciated, and the result imo was largely a success. The riotous element of the player base appears to have been pacified (albeit temporarily) and its almost business as usual.

A question though; did you ever think to try video conferencing? Or maybe even just netmeeting and audio conferencing? Being elected to a position of some importance among a gaming community is quite spiffy, but its still only a hobby. A video game. And sacrificing your physical well being for it seems inane, especially with all the various communication tools at your disposal.

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:20:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Medidranda Livoga
Edited by: Medidranda Livoga on 05/07/2011 10:15:30
It is true that players actually got nothing factual out of it and thus this CCP / CSM thing feels mostly like charade. Cool But the whole point was to:

a) Stretch this whole thing to couple weeks to dissipate some of the anger
b) This same thing also gave people time to convince themselves that it is not going to be so bad (addicts bargaining)
c) Get away with not promising things definitely (corporate leeway if you will)

The whole situation is bit like a family feud: People get really mad but unfortunately everyone loses if break-up occurs. CCP loses their meal ticket and players lose their game.

However, less players care about their game more leverage they have. Disillusioned subscriber can push the unsub button and keep it pressed without real disruption to their lives. Addicted subber will feel tremendous discomfort by not playing and is willing to compromise and be milked for more cash even if he should wail in forums for a bit.


yep & yep.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:23:00 - [132]
 

Regardless of "success" or "failure" the playerbase now know what button to press (literally) to get CCPs attention PDQ.

It will happen again.

General Windypops
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:30:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: Othran
Regardless of "success" or "failure" the playerbase now know what button to press (literally) to get CCPs attention PDQ.

It will happen again.


It's this kind of attitude that, to my mind, is utterly immature and reflects so badly on us. The enthusiasm and glee of some parts of the playerbase to blackmail and **** stir dissent because of their enjoyment of the 'drama' of protests is just pathetic.


Tanya Fox
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:34:00 - [134]
 

Edited by: Tanya Fox on 05/07/2011 10:39:53
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Originally by: Dr Lebroi
As to the result for the summit. It played out as real world diplomacy always plays out. All sides got a little of what they wanted but no one was an out right winner that's how it goes. I know your moms and dads always paint your room the colour you want it but when you get older you realise that sometimes you have to use whatever paint is cheapest in the shop. PEACE.


Yes, it did play out as real world diplomacy. One side got everything they wanted and agreed to give the other side all the publicity they need to not look like they lost out, big time.

The protesters got literally nothing. Literally. Not figuratively, literally. They simply got nothing.

CCP maintained their previously stated positions and placated the entire community at the cost of a few plane tickets, a youtube video and a few platitudiness forum posts.

I am so impressed with CCP figuratively pushing fresh excrement right down the protestors pie holes and having them love it that I am resubbing all 11 accounts. It was absolutely beautiful to watch. You can't buy entertainment like that.
Where would you go?

"Dear Sir, I want to watch roughly 5000 idiots pretend to be passionate about something and then watch 95% of them be placated with the exact same words that made them mad in the first place"
Nowhere does that service, you cannot buy it.




I was not impressed with the blog, did not even bother to watch the vid.

All 5 of my accounts remain closed although 4 were not active at the time of the crisis anyway. Reason they are remaining closed is mainly because of the way CCP handled the whole affair.

It was always going to be a PR exercise, those types of meetings always are. But that in itself is not necessarily a bad thing.

You seem to forget CCP can't afford to be seen giving into protesters demands completely, they probably answered in the only way they felt they could. The ball so to speak is in CCP's court at the moment, it'll be interesting to see what CCP actually does with it.


Edit: Actually there is another reason mine are remaining closed. That is I've never been that happy with the idea of Dust being combined with the Eve universe.

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:41:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
CCP agrees that since we have paid for 2 expansions per year with our inflated monthly subscription, and since this expansion is all about Spaceship Barbies, that they will allow us to play dressup with our Spaceship Barbies for 'free' (since we've already paid for it with our inflated monthly subscription.)

never heard about it (bold part). Any links to EULA or other document?
Very Happy

Tanya Fox
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:46:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Othran
Regardless of "success" or "failure" the playerbase now know what button to press (literally) to get CCPs attention PDQ.

It will happen again.



You should get the CSMs attention and let them negotiate with CCP.

But you won't hold CCP to ransom, they can't afford to go down that road. It's not the same as a parent giving into their child because the parent wants a quiet life.

Banstyle
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:47:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: White Tree
We sat and watched as THE greatest technical achievement the company has ever put forward was perpetually overshadowed by problems.


Laughing

Cadela Fria
Amarr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.07.05 10:55:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Originally by: baltec1
It stopped because the bulk of us didnt want none vanity items. CCP has now said the will not go down that road so we are happy again.

Its as simple as that.


No, they didn't. And no, it's not.

I think it's fair to say that if Incarna had been released with the option to dock-to-hangar, had included a greater variety of prices in the MT store, and had included a commitment from CCP to never sell non-vanity items or convenience or functionality EVER, it would have still been the worst 'expansion' of all time.

So no, after stalling for over a week, (and jeopardizing the mental and physical health and well-being of poor White Tree,) a toothless statement that we have no plans to sell non-vanity items in our vanity items store (which is precisely what the statement says) doesn't cut it.

"It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."


Yes they did. And yes, it is.

You're just worked up because you prefer a conspiracy theory to no theory at all. Your theory and view, creates more questions than it answers and I'm very convinced Occam would have a field day with you.

You *want* there to be a smoke screen, you *want* CCP to be lying to you, you *want* there to be an underlying message and "real" motive that, as far as you're concerned, only you and that crackpot group that agrees with you, can see. You *want* the things told to you that counteracts your theory, to be a deliberate fabrication, made to obscure "the truth".
You essentially just want 2 things. Drama, and attention to yourself.

I'm sorry but you can't be helped, and I'm also sorry to inform you that: We won, the protest succeeded.

March rabbit
Posted - 2011.07.05 11:20:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
When I see someone with no posting history, no kb history, who is spouting CCP lies, I suspect him of being a dev alt. That seems reasonable to me. If you're not a CCP alt, have the balls to post on your main. In the exceedingly unlikely event that you're a genuine noob, then educate yourself before you open your piehole again. Thanks.


You really disallow new people and/or not pvp-interested to have his own mind?

And what is about "have balls to post with your main"? What is recall to Rocky Balboa? Are you 11 years old boy? From your posts i can believe to it.

Usually i use my alt to post here but this time (especially for you kid) i have chosen my main. Maybe it will make you happy?

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.07.05 11:24:00 - [140]
 

Edited by: Ciar Meara on 05/07/2011 11:25:02
Originally by: White Tree
If you knew anything about the living hell I've had to go through these last 5 days to get to Iceland and back you wouldn't be spouting what you're spouting now. A mixture of flight delays, missed flights, lost passports and more just so I could go to Iceland and shout at CCP for 48 hours only to crawl home (I'm STILL not home nearly 72 hours after the summit ended) and I get to come back to people sitting in their diapers crying about how we were 'bought' by CCP. You literally have no idea what you're talking about and I've actually put my physical health on the back burner for YOUR interests and so did the rest of the CSM so just chill out with the endless stream of nonsense you constantly fire at us. We're not superheroes and we made some serious sacrifices to be able to drop EVERYTHING to go to Iceland and hash this out.

We didn't get drunk and we didn't have fun because quite frankly we were too tired, too stressed and too overworked to be able to stop for a moment and consider anyone's concerns other than yours. The same can be mirrored for CCP who were genuinely worried and concerned about the problems the players had. We sat and watched as THE greatest technical achievement the company has ever put forward was perpetually overshadowed by problems. I'm sorry if you didn't get everything you wanted exactly how you wanted it but your entitlements stretch far and beyond their reach so simmer down and think about what you're saying before you say it.


Well lets not go overboard, I assume the logistical problems of getting to Iceland where many and it didn't go flawless but you got there and where able to talk to CCP about most of the imminent concerns of the community and hatched out a response from CCP that was acceptable by most (me at least and I was really mad).

The greatest technical achievement EVE ever rolled out was the graphics update, the current CQ and the entire patch has to many problems, technical glitches and downright errors to be labelled "an achievement", although it has potential.



Originally by: General Windypops

Sorry, White Tree but that's an absolutely ludicrous response. Application to the CSM was entirely voluntary and you should only have thrown your hat in the ring because you WANTED to contribute. Myself, and many others willingly put ourselves forward, but the Goonswarn / NC campaign to block vote and seize control of the CSM you and Mittens decided to orchestrate put you where you are.

If you don't have the desire, energy or ability to sit on the CSM them you have only yourself (and your political agenda) to blame.

As for why the 'protest' failed I don't think it failed in the slightest. My main observation is that whilst the way CCP managed the whole issue reflected very poorly on them, the way some parts of the community conducted themselves also reflects badly on all of us. Seeing people blackmail, threaten and abuse CCP staff, coupled with the wildly inflated and blatantly false claims of unsubscriptions from thousands of faceless alts undermined our credibility, maturity and contribution to the debate.



You are right also, I don't think we failed either and CCP managed this whole mess very badly indeed. But they admitted that themselves and even CCP soundwave posted on the forums yesterday and sunday saying exactly that while again saying that "gold ammo" was a big no no.

However to drop everything on a few days notice and travel to Iceland for EvE is beyond the call of duty. People with jobs, lives and/or children and wives did their best in difficult circumstances and that has to acknowledged. You don't "just" travel to iceland, it takes a while to get there even from Europe.

Cadela Fria
Amarr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.07.05 11:27:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: AkJon Ferguson

.....I suppose I should explain what winning would have looked like. Let's see if we can agree on a few facts:.....



First of all let me tell you a few facts. Recent patches have *not* introduced a countless amount of exploits, this is simply fluff added in to bolster your argument. Second of all, every single major patch in EVE's history, has introduced a heap load of new bugs - I mean were you here when they changed over to the new graphics engine?

Now as far as the "low end computers able to run EVE", I'm sorry to say this, however you're entirely wrong. Technology has to move forward and EVE always, from the very beginning, pushed to be on the bleeding edge of technological game advancement, have you heard them talk about the initial prototype they showed of EVE and publishers said that this kind of graphics couldn't be done realtime and especially not in an MMO.
It was nice that EVE ran on smaller machines back then, but it cant keep doing it forever, eventually the bar has to move upwards.

The last patch (incarna) did *not* fry/overheat *any* video cards. If it really did there'd be a great sum of money to be paid to customers by CCP, like the boot.ini incident, which really did happen. You are again, I'm sorry to say, completely wrong and speaking from..what I can only guess..complete ignorance. There is no such thing as code and/or rendering that will fry/overheat your graphics card. Your graphics card is governed by its drivers, and all *it* does is tell your graphics card how fast it can go and in what ways - *All* EVE can do is give your card a set of instructions and tell it to do these as fast as it can.
In other words, poor drivers and/or cooling and/or broken hardware is your problem, not EVE.

As far as how much money is allocated to the development of EVE, I don't know...I admit that. But neither do you! - It is rather pointless to sit and try to cleverly speak of the financial circumstances of something you couldn't *possibly* know for certain.
Yes there are 2 other games in development, but that proves nothing..you'd have to make a number of uninformed assumptions about the financial structure regarding these projects, and doing so can lead you anywhere you want to go..like say for instance...to saying EVE is inadequately funded.

So far we are in complete disagreements..now moving on to your "one liners":

1: Yes we agree, but I believe they will do this eventually

2. No we don't agree. Now while I don't like Aurum or any of this NeX thing, I simply don't agree it was part of winning this protest.

3. Redundant fluff point that means the same as the above

4. No we don't agree, simply because it wasn't part of what we were protesting against. However I do agree vanity items should be craftable by us, and marketed by us, and so forth, leaving the MT part for things like faction clothing etc.

5. No we don't agree, because thats not what he said. While you could draw a path to him saying that, it just won't make it true..What you said there is called spin, and I'm not impressed.

6. Redundant, already been said, more fluff

7. You're wanting your cake and to eat it to. You can't force respect in, and given your burblings about financial reallocation, you make no educated guesses about what happens if you do that.

On your ending points, your snide sarcasm and sneering about the CSM and what went on, is pathethic. It invalidates everything you said beforehand and leads me to think you need to grow up.

Merelle
Posted - 2011.07.05 11:41:00 - [142]
 

Edited by: Merelle on 05/07/2011 11:44:01
nevermind

Magnus Ahearn
Posted - 2011.07.05 11:46:00 - [143]
 

I watched you cry and whine and moan about everything the past few weeks, and guess what: All the massive fail came because of uninformed ****s like you. Yes I was against non-vanity items, and once CCP gave their word, I gave it up. I honestly don't mind Incarna, and it hasn't caused me any massive hardware issues, other than the occasional ctd. So, get off your high horse, and come back down to reality. Trust me, it's safer that way. If you want to cry and wine and moan, then go play WoW and get your hand held at every turn, and in the process make EVE one less whiny troll. Quit blaming everyone because you didn't get your way.

kthnxbai

Azztoroid
Shipwreck cove
Posted - 2011.07.05 12:03:00 - [144]
 

Had abit time to think and put things in content.

Was the protests valid, i belive that, mostly to send a sign to CCP that we as players are a voice to be heard.

The fearless. I actualy have seen that type of provocations send out to a staff, so by it self its nothing.

The leaked E-mail. I do understand it, we just "unfortently" tied it to the rest of stuf going on.

The first blog was nothing but a panic letter that shouldnt have been postet. The zulu blog is an emotional reaction on the trust leake within CCP, just fell right into the powder can.

So what do i want with all this. The entire situation comes down to a chain of events. By them self they are no problem, but mix them up and you have havoc.

Both sides have had there failures.

CCP payed $ to get the CSM to iceland, they choose to hear us rather than just remain silent. The NDA part is understandeble since they do have figures that should not be revealed outside CCP. Many of the protesters did the protests becasue of love to the game, YES WE DO LOVE THE GAME!! but the huge "blackspot" non vanity will destroy the game as a sandbox, and we choose to fight it before it landed right into our laps. We were not sure if it was the plans, but we had to send a message that we didnt want it.

Right now there is the word puzzles, plans, never oooh they bla bla, some will never be satisfied, CCP could show us a leagal document where it said NEVER EVER and some would stil dispute it.

Did we get CCP to the table: Yes
Did we get atleast some out of it: Yes
Did the CSM stand up for the players: Yes
Did both sides learn from this: hopefully yes

Azz


Supple Boy Toucher
Posted - 2011.07.05 12:03:00 - [145]
 

I haven't read a single post in this thread, but I just wanted to post to say that you have some beautiful DSLs, OP. ugh

Rue Cassels
Posted - 2011.07.05 12:09:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: White Tree
If you knew anything about the living hell I've had to go through these last 5 days to get to Iceland and back you wouldn't be spouting what you're spouting now. A mixture of flight delays, missed flights, lost passports and more just so I could go to Iceland and shout at CCP for 48 hours only to crawl home (I'm STILL not home nearly 72 hours after the summit ended) and I get to come back to people sitting in their diapers crying about how we were 'bought' by CCP. You literally have no idea what you're talking about and I've actually put my physical health on the back burner for YOUR interests and so did the rest of the CSM so just chill out with the endless stream of nonsense you constantly fire at us. We're not superheroes and we made some serious sacrifices to be able to drop EVERYTHING to go to Iceland and hash this out.

We didn't get drunk and we didn't have fun because quite frankly we were too tired, too stressed and too overworked to be able to stop for a moment and consider anyone's concerns other than yours. The same can be mirrored for CCP who were genuinely worried and concerned about the problems the players had. We sat and watched as THE greatest technical achievement the company has ever put forward was perpetually overshadowed by problems. I'm sorry if you didn't get everything you wanted exactly how you wanted it but your entitlements stretch far and beyond their reach so simmer down and think about what you're saying before you say it.


Dude if it really cost you that much to do it, don't present yourself anymore.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.05 12:11:00 - [147]
 

The protests worked OP...why do you think there was a CSM emergency summit?

There was no way they'd address everyone's concern but they addressed the concerns of the majority of the protesters :)

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.07.05 12:12:00 - [148]
 

Just wanted to say OP nailed the issues in this thread through the various replies and wanted to thank him for continuing to post on these issues.

My opinion is that the staggered sub, lack of alternate engaging sandbox game, and the large portion of players who were begging for a lie to continue their habit are what 'did this in'. You have to add in CCP's position of power in dictating the terms of the 'accord', having ignored the vast majority of players who wanted no MT in EVE when asked CCP didn't care. Just as they didn't care this time with the issues presented, hardly a 'great' company or even one worth my time or effort.


Zeg Quul
Posted - 2011.07.05 12:12:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Terminal Insanity
And the #1 reason why the protests failed: They were protesting over something that didnt/wasnt going to exist!


guess, ppl like to pay for "things" which are not existent




Cutter Isaacson
Minmatar
Spycotics
Posted - 2011.07.05 12:14:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Kudos to CCP for paying attention to the uprising and retaining the right to create your game how you see fit without ruining it for the majority of us and without causing irreparable damage to your company's financial future. Well played, CCP.

Here are 10 reasons (in no particular order) I think it failed:

1. It didn't

2. It didn't

3. It didn't

4. It didn't

5. It didn't

6. It didn't

7. It didn't

8. It didn't

9. It didn't

10. It didn't

Well done everyone


Fixing AkJon Fergsuons posts since 05/07/2011

AkJon Ferguson now with 100% less stupidity.


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