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Goner Go'Nad
Posted - 2011.07.03 13:38:00 - [1]
 

I been following the fun on the forums over the last week or 2. Dont understand the fuss, Im a young character so maybe I dont get it. I dont like the idea of getting ships for cash from NEX but repaint is cool.
I dont like super modules for ships too for cash.
I want removable underwear in private too.
If I was CCP i would use blueprint for good/gold stuff in NEX not the module. Then player still must build the thing and no magic item comes from store.
So a plex = month subscriptiun- and that = month worth of skillpoints yes? So WHY not pay a few dollars or plex to get skillpoints *now* instead of paying slowly for months to get the same thing? Only means I dont have to wait so long to *enjoy* the game more, and I wont be paying less. Is pay to wait really more fun for you old characters? Is *not waiting* for fun really a bad thing?

Someone said we might get skillpoints for plex up to limit of age of character so if you have a break you can come back and buy skillpoints you *could* have already got. How is that game breaking? And why is remap for plex bad? I dont see a problem.

I guess I am asking if "no pay to win" has to mean "must pay to wait".

Jherdan Berral
Posted - 2011.07.03 13:54:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Goner Go'Nad
I been following the fun on the forums over the last week or 2. Dont understand the fuss, Im a young character so maybe I dont get it. I dont like the idea of getting ships for cash from NEX but repaint is cool.
I dont like super modules for ships too for cash.
I want removable underwear in private too.
If I was CCP i would use blueprint for good/gold stuff in NEX not the module. Then player still must build the thing and no magic item comes from store.
So a plex = month subscriptiun- and that = month worth of skillpoints yes? So WHY not pay a few dollars or plex to get skillpoints *now* instead of paying slowly for months to get the same thing? Only means I dont have to wait so long to *enjoy* the game more, and I wont be paying less. Is pay to wait really more fun for you old characters? Is *not waiting* for fun really a bad thing?

Someone said we might get skillpoints for plex up to limit of age of character so if you have a break you can come back and buy skillpoints you *could* have already got. How is that game breaking? And why is remap for plex bad? I dont see a problem.

I guess I am asking if "no pay to win" has to mean "must pay to wait".


Paying for skillpoints introduces two classes of customer, that's the problem. It's not as important in a game with a focus on PvE, but in Eve it would mean you're on one level, and this guy you're fighting who happens to have a bigger wallet/be more free with his money gets to be many levels higher for investing the same amount of time. If they go that route, they might as well get rid of subs entirely and make the game f2p. I certainly won't pay a flat rate just to be an inferior class of customer.

Nagasaki Warrior
Posted - 2011.07.03 14:04:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Goner Go'Nad
I been following the fun on the forums over the last week or 2. Dont understand the fuss, Im a young character so maybe I dont get it. I dont like the idea of getting ships for cash from NEX but repaint is cool.
I dont like super modules for ships too for cash.
I want removable underwear in private too.
If I was CCP i would use blueprint for good/gold stuff in NEX not the module. Then player still must build the thing and no magic item comes from store.
So a plex = month subscriptiun- and that = month worth of skillpoints yes? So WHY not pay a few dollars or plex to get skillpoints *now* instead of paying slowly for months to get the same thing? Only means I dont have to wait so long to *enjoy* the game more, and I wont be paying less. Is pay to wait really more fun for you old characters? Is *not waiting* for fun really a bad thing?

Someone said we might get skillpoints for plex up to limit of age of character so if you have a break you can come back and buy skillpoints you *could* have already got. How is that game breaking? And why is remap for plex bad? I dont see a problem.

I guess I am asking if "no pay to win" has to mean "must pay to wait".



As a young player I can see no good coming from plex to immediate skillpoints. Just imagine if you had invested the time to accumulate 100mil SP only for CCP to intoduce the system you describe - you would be ****ed at them. It does suck that I cant fly really uber stuff now but that gives me something to aim for ingame and I am having fun working toward that making the most of the stuff I can fly now.

Senator Antares
Posted - 2011.07.03 14:05:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Nagasaki Warrior
Originally by: Goner Go'Nad
I been following the fun on the forums over the last week or 2. Dont understand the fuss, Im a young character so maybe I dont get it. I dont like the idea of getting ships for cash from NEX but repaint is cool.
I dont like super modules for ships too for cash.
I want removable underwear in private too.
If I was CCP i would use blueprint for good/gold stuff in NEX not the module. Then player still must build the thing and no magic item comes from store.
So a plex = month subscriptiun- and that = month worth of skillpoints yes? So WHY not pay a few dollars or plex to get skillpoints *now* instead of paying slowly for months to get the same thing? Only means I dont have to wait so long to *enjoy* the game more, and I wont be paying less. Is pay to wait really more fun for you old characters? Is *not waiting* for fun really a bad thing?

Someone said we might get skillpoints for plex up to limit of age of character so if you have a break you can come back and buy skillpoints you *could* have already got. How is that game breaking? And why is remap for plex bad? I dont see a problem.

I guess I am asking if "no pay to win" has to mean "must pay to wait".



As a young player I can see no good coming from plex to immediate skillpoints. Just imagine if you had invested the time to accumulate 100mil SP only for CCP to intoduce the system you describe - you would be ****ed at them. It does suck that I cant fly really uber stuff now but that gives me something to aim for ingame and I am having fun working toward that making the most of the stuff I can fly now.


Exactly Idea

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.07.03 14:36:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 03/07/2011 14:40:51
Originally by: Nagasaki Warrior
Originally by: Goner Go'Nad
So a plex = month subscriptiun- and that = month worth of skillpoints yes? So WHY not pay a few dollars or plex to get skillpoints *now* instead of paying slowly for months to get the same thing? Only means I dont have to wait so long to *enjoy* the game more, and I wont be paying less. Is pay to wait really more fun for you old characters? Is *not waiting* for fun really a bad thing?

Someone said we might get skillpoints for plex up to limit of age of character so if you have a break you can come back and buy skillpoints you *could* have already got. How is that game breaking? And why is remap for plex bad? I dont see a problem.

I guess I am asking if "no pay to win" has to mean "must pay to wait".



As a young player I can see no good coming from plex to immediate skillpoints. Just imagine if you had invested the time to accumulate 100mil SP only for CCP to intoduce the system you describe - you would be ****ed at them. It does suck that I cant fly really uber stuff now but that gives me something to aim for ingame and I am having fun working toward that making the most of the stuff I can fly now.

I couldn't care less, what's the use of limiting people's versatility and flexibility, if a new player had 30+ milion SP like me, I'd be happy for him/her! :)
For one, I don't see paying subscription as buying the entitlement to an eternal right to be stronger, better, more versatile than others.

And tell me again why you do agree on buying a 80 million SP character for PLEX for ISK in the character bazaar?

Its bizarre but sometimes I seem to be part of a small minority that thinks `teamplay, player skill and experience` should be more important than `number of months of subscription payed`. The idea!

Tagera
Posted - 2011.07.03 14:44:00 - [6]
 

I think buying and selling characters is kind of ridiculous....however....since it's mostly the new players that seem to buy the high sp characters anyways. It means the targets die that much easier since they have no idea what they are doing...lol. As for Jennifer....sp means crap. I could take a few days old character and still smack the crap out of someone that has 30mil sp and no knowledge of what they are doing. I've done it to new players wanting to learn pvp and using this character.....and all I used was a crappy slasher...cheap bottom barrel guns and crappiest ammo I could get and still managed to slam a rupture into structure fairly easily with hardly any shield damage. Again...I iterate...sp means nothing....the player's knowledge and to an extent the skills are what count. SP is just a number.

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.07.03 14:49:00 - [7]
 

I like the idea selling SP at the very lowest end.

Example:

Sell the 'core competency basic' cert pack. Giving someone those skills would be WAAAYYYY off the radar of anyone serious enough to care about buying SP and couldn't be abused to get more SP then it was worth, but it would be very convenient to someone just starting.

Even if they put in all the 'basic' certs, adding up to a large number of SP, they're still very low skills and wouldn't all apply to any one ship once you started talking guns/drones. It would save a player a lot of time, but not give them any big advantage being given basics. If vets still don't like that, they could maybe have a cumulative cost. First basic cert 1$, then 10$, then any more you want would be a full plex each from there, maybe Plex and a little change so it's uneven. Or just flat cap it at only one basic cert per character.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.07.03 14:53:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 03/07/2011 14:56:54
Originally by: Tagera
sp means crap. (..) SP is just a number.

1. Why don't you biomass you character if SP means nothing then?
2. What's against giving new players 30 million SP if SP means nothing anyway?
3. You're welcome to prove your point with a 4 day character in a t1 fit Slasher against my Jaguar.

Tagera
Posted - 2011.07.03 15:08:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 03/07/2011 14:56:54
Originally by: Tagera
sp means crap. (..) SP is just a number.

1. Why don't you biomass you character if SP means nothing then?
2. What's against giving new players 30 million SP if SP means nothing anyway?
3. You're welcome to prove your point with a 4 day character in a t1 fit Slasher against my Jaguar.



lol......what and mess up all the training I did? The 30mil sp still won't do them much good...if they have no idea what they're doing....and for 3....you're not a new player...you have an idea what you're doing. So a 4 day old character in a slasher against an experienced player in a jaguar wouldn't survive. Unless the jaguar had a crap fit.

Tagera
Posted - 2011.07.03 15:10:00 - [10]
 

Though I'm not against trying.

Kiran
Minmatar
Knights of Azrael
Anti-Social Outcast
Posted - 2011.07.03 15:25:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Nagasaki Warrior
Originally by: Goner Go'Nad
I been following the fun on the forums over the last week or 2. Dont understand the fuss, Im a young character so maybe I dont get it. I dont like the idea of getting ships for cash from NEX but repaint is cool.
I dont like super modules for ships too for cash.
I want removable underwear in private too.
If I was CCP i would use blueprint for good/gold stuff in NEX not the module. Then player still must build the thing and no magic item comes from store.
So a plex = month subscriptiun- and that = month worth of skillpoints yes? So WHY not pay a few dollars or plex to get skillpoints *now* instead of paying slowly for months to get the same thing? Only means I dont have to wait so long to *enjoy* the game more, and I wont be paying less. Is pay to wait really more fun for you old characters? Is *not waiting* for fun really a bad thing?

Someone said we might get skillpoints for plex up to limit of age of character so if you have a break you can come back and buy skillpoints you *could* have already got. How is that game breaking? And why is remap for plex bad? I dont see a problem.

I guess I am asking if "no pay to win" has to mean "must pay to wait".



As a young player I can see no good coming from plex to immediate skillpoints. Just imagine if you had invested the time to accumulate 100mil SP only for CCP to intoduce the system you describe - you would be ****ed at them. It does suck that I cant fly really uber stuff now but that gives me something to aim for ingame and I am having fun working toward that making the most of the stuff I can fly now.


Also you learn more as well if you start off on a lower peg. You learn the basics to PvP/PvE and how each ship type and class fits into a role. Without these fundamentals your going to be pretty useless flying your gold pimped out Titan only to have a swarm of HACS take you out.

Goner Go'Nad
Posted - 2011.07.03 15:34:00 - [12]
 

Not interested in Titans. To use your example- it takes a long time to get into a HAC or even a assault frigate once you count up all the other support and weapon skills to use it effectively.
You are supporting the wide view that anyone that cant fly a HAC or use T2 weapons is not good enough. How do noobies feel when they look at skillques to reach that level?

Goner Go'Nad
Posted - 2011.07.04 06:34:00 - [13]
 

Really want this to happen. Any more like this idea?

Torothanax
Posted - 2011.07.04 07:10:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Torothanax on 04/07/2011 07:14:27

If you can affect training in any way with cash, Eve is dead. It's like taking the dollar off the gold standard. That worked out real well. Don't even think of going there. The best part of eve has always been that you don't have to (read "can't") grind skill points.

Eve was never meant to be dual boxed, but how do you stop it? Look at all the mechanics that force multi player interaction. Mechanics that get bypassed by alts. They won't drop the mechanics though because multi-account players pay more. Characters were never meant to be bought and sold, but to counter act 3rd party sales they allowed it for isk. You were never meant to be able to buy isk, but to counter 3rd party sales, they added plex. None of these were particularly good for the game, but there weren't many other options. The original idea of eve was that your real life wallet has no effect in game. Yeah that went out the window to a degree along time ago.

Look how far the game has slid from that ideal over the years. Just because people can buy SOME small advantage in game with cash doesn't mean the whole game needs to go that way. They've done an ok job of mitigating the damage. It'd be nice if they got on bots, RMT, and 3rd party character sales harder. They certainly don't need to encourage any more slide though.

At least the working man can still compete with people that can be logged in 23/7. If you change skill training you jack that up as well.

Quit trying to change the fundamentals that Eve was built upon. Just because there are some exceptions, loopholes, and flaws, doesn't mean they scrap the whole system. If you devalue the skill system or the market, you destroy the games integrity. You'd lose a huge chunk of player base. If you feel you need to buy a head start, then Eve isn't the game for you. People without patience or long term goals won't stick around anyway.

Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.07.04 07:17:00 - [15]
 

Old folks need harder targets that an "Achievement Unlocked" Message, its not the same when you can just buy Skillpoints. There is just no achievement made to be proud of.

as for "Cash for Remap": Its a different kind of buying Skillpoints imho since you can keep your attributes always perfectly fitting for the next skill you gonna learn, which means you dont need to find a balance to them.

Brujo Loco
Amarr
Brujeria Teologica
Posted - 2011.07.04 08:03:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Torothanax
Edited by: Torothanax on 04/07/2011 07:14:27


Eve was never meant to be dual boxed, but how do you stop it? Look at all the mechanics that force multi player interaction. Mechanics that get bypassed by alts. They won't drop the mechanics though because multi-account players pay more. Characters were never meant to be bought and sold, but to counter act 3rd party sales they allowed it for isk. You were never meant to be able to buy isk, but to counter 3rd party sales, they added plex. None of these were particularly good for the game, but there weren't many other options. The original idea of eve was that your real life wallet has no effect in game. Yeah that went out the window to a degree along time ago.

Look how far the game has slid from that ideal over the years. Just because people can buy SOME small advantage in game with cash doesn't mean the whole game needs to go that way. They've done an ok job of mitigating the damage. It'd be nice if they got on bots, RMT, and 3rd party character sales harder. They certainly don't need to encourage any more slide though.

At least the working man can still compete with people that can be logged in 23/7. If you change skill training you jack that up as well.

Quit trying to change the fundamentals that Eve was built upon. Just because there are some exceptions, loopholes, and flaws, doesn't mean they scrap the whole system. If you devalue the skill system or the market, you destroy the games integrity. You'd lose a huge chunk of player base. If you feel you need to buy a head start, then Eve isn't the game for you. People without patience or long term goals won't stick around anyway.


But in the end, Work at home moms and angs filled teens made Farmville profitable enough for it to be a multi million dollar a year game. Thing is current userbase that thinks like you <myself included> are not profitable enough and in the end, the hard reality is that CCP is simply a CORP in the business of making money now. Back then it was about a bunch of people with great ideas filling a niche in the market and generating profit off it, no more, like all successful enterprises it's main goal is to expand its product to generate cold hard cash.

What I Criticize about the current way EVE is taking, is that the game is fundamentally built upon certain concepts that make the game BORING and DULL to the "casualites" and "consolerros" of today, and turning the game more into something that makes it attractive to it is kinda a counter effort, but there's bills to pay and surveys show the gross of the userbase WANTS these changes.

New people that know crap about PVP and feel the 40mil+ skillpoints killed them for their sheer "uberness in sp" will buy the skill points packs for 29.99$ a level. We talking about the same crowd that believes the minerals they mine themselves are "free", and no amount of logical basic economy explanations will make them understand why they are not "free". That kind of people will buy the 79.99$ promo of mineral barges plus mining modules right now on sale!.

EVE was made for people that enjoyed severe abstractions in play, yet the core of the userbase that grinds PVE missions just want the same run of the mill experience of being given a quest and kill the XX amount of giant space rats for "lootz".

0.0? what is that to them? a big scary place with a "Here be dragons" sign and Low sec is the place where you get killed by gangs of nasty people that can't leave them alone and all they want is just play and mind their own business and will report you to a GM for saying a bad word and "violencing" their ships.

We have no future man, the future is theirs, and their wallets speak louder than our nerdrage QQemoinduced tears that make you want to /wrist yourself in a macro for 3 hours straight.

Torothanax
Posted - 2011.07.08 05:59:00 - [17]
 

But this isn't farmville. Totally different product. Eve was started by people that said "Hey wouldn't it be cool if we could..." And then they did it. The Devs used to play. They built the universe they wanted to play in and got other people to pay to be part of it. Granted it was probably an epeen thing to, you could tell with the way everything was balanced around "old money" so to speak, but it seems to me that made a game they wanted to play and then turned it into a profitable venture.

Now investors have gotten into the mix and it's a money making company. Yeah sure they have to turn a profit to keep the money men happy. That doesn't mean it all has to be purely for profit. If they mess with the core of what eve is, they kill their cash cow.

Besides, I thought their whatever darkness vampire game was supposed to be their new rake in the cash hand over fist venture? They can start that one off with micro transactions out the ass and whatever other pay to win scheme they want. It's a new deal.

Bottom line is Eve is fine the way it is. It's not an instant gratification game. It's not an insanely profitable fad. It's a good game with a stable subscription base, that makes plenty of money. They need to not jack with the fundamentals of a good thing.


 

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