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St'oto
Elite Predators
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:46:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: Vikarion
You guys make me very, very happy. Re-subbing. Also, I'll buy at least one thing from the NEX store. Cool


You people do realize that by buying into the very thing that had the community in the uproar you get the company one step closer to trying to do it in the future? The NeX store period is bad in all honesty. But by buying $70 bloody virtual goods which need I remind you is $10 more then a full game, you are giving them a better reason to slowly introduce pay based advantages. As they will slowly start putting it in as people warm up to this new store.

I'm sorry but once you start microtransactions, eventually the greed will take over. Slowly but surely people will warm up to this store(it's already happening) then eventually CCP will do another "trial run". But this time it will effect the game instead of just being vanity.

I'm sorry but I'd rather buy a new PC game off of steam, or hell buy a console game then spend $70 on a virtual good that has absolutely no function other then "Yea I'm rich *****, suck it!"

raukosen
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:46:00 - [242]
 

You want to improve communication? Stop NDA-ing every little ****ing thing you tell the CSM

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:47:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: SerialTurd
Immediate questions were answered. As some have stated my new concern is future content.

Are we going to see more Incarna like expansions where the bulk of it is about walking in stations with little additions to space? If so, EVE will not survive.

Remember. This is all about internet space ships which are of the utmost importance. Walking in stations is at the bottom of that list and for many, not even on the list. Most could care less about it. Make sure your primary focus is and always will be the space content of Eve.

-Turd

Personally, I consider BiS (Barbie In Space) a very major thing, and I hope CCP will continue to focus on Incarna: new CQ's for the other races first, then the actual walking in station (as opposed to just walking up and down your room), etc.

Khudin Hadashur
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:47:00 - [244]
 

Originally by: CCP
It is CCPs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.


Very good.

A thank you and :approve: to the CSM for hammering the points home. A thank you and :approve: to CCP staff as well for getting this devblog and video out relatively quickly.

I'm looking forward to see further communication about the points adressed in this joint statement like the rollout of the old-style hangar replacement and a hopefully steady stream of Incarna performance tweaks.

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:47:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I am in transit back home (now in Boston Airport) but will be happy to answer questions as time permits. I hope the devblog clears up a lot of things for everyone.
It's very clear you completely missed the point, as far as CQ is concerned.


This.

I'll just leave this here, though.

Reilly Duvolle
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:47:00 - [246]
 

(Pasted from my locked tread)

The recently published joint CCP-CSM devblog adresses the issues on the table, namely

1) That CCP has no plans to use the NEX for anything but vanity items. This is in fact a stronger wording than the previous "no gold ammo" statement, due to the great number of possibilities which falls into the "grey area" between pure vanity and game changing items (so-called convenience items for example). No, CCP has not stated that they will never have such plans ever, but that would actually be unreasonable to demand. Suffice to say, your time and effort spent in-game will still define your sucess, for at LEAST the 3 next years. Also I am sure, that IF CCP toys with this idea again, I trust our magnificent community to rise up to the challenge once more.

2) That CCP will give us ship spinning back "in some form". This was NOT their intention, and player sentiment has carried the day in this issue. In light of that, I take the ambiguities contained in the phrase "...and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance" lightly. CCP now has the opportunity to make this the way it should have always been, namely that you are in your pod until you choose to disembark from it to venture into the station (to get "off grid") all with slimy cut-scenes i am sure.

3) That CCP will detail the pricing strategy behind the Noble Exchange. That they will not change their prices at the current time is very understandable, and I suspect that for the majority of EVE-players this isnt a big deal. If numbers from EA also is representative for the EVE Community, only 2-3% of the population can be considered peacocks anyway (yes monocle owners, I am looking at you).

4) That CCP is aware of and adresses the "hardware and lighting issues" within CQ. A survey over at FHC tells me that a majority of EVE players play with CQ turned off. This is undoubtly data available to CCP as well, and must generate concern. Part of the isse seems to be the "non-gameplay" debate, but a majority reports massive fan/heating issues as the main reasons. Therefore, CCP will tackle this head on, as they cannot afford Incarna to fail after all this time.

All in all, I think this response is more than acceptable for a majority of players that fall into the "protester and/or unsubber" category. So this is OUR victory. The protests and unsubscription campaign forced CCPs hand, denying them to play this by the ear as time went by. Instead, they hade to make a move, calling CSM to island, and COMMIT themselves.

The EVE community, when united, has real power. Divided, we fall. This time, our community has succeeded, despite the trolls found among or ranks. To them I have only one message:

You are welcome.



I for one will be resubbing my 4 accounts.

Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:47:00 - [247]
 

Satisfied, myself. Could have used an apology from Hilmar for the tone of his leaked internal letter, but knowing that business administration in Iceland -- or any Nordic country -- has its own peculiarities, I won't blow up about it. I will however continue to laugh at conspiracy theorists and trolls on the forums.

Thanks to CSM6 and the CCP attendees for being awesome.

Kane Molou
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:47:00 - [248]
 

Sorry you can't get a point, it's not just the Video it's also the Dev Blog They spent a day on that apparently.. and yet it simply says exactly what every one was saying it would..

There is NOTHING in this that deals with the Bug issues and the only thing that Deals with the Heat issue is

"The CSM raised concerns with performance running multiple clients after the Incarna launch where the minimum hardware spec will only support one client logged in when in a station environment. CCP will work on creating a minimum hardware spec that supports multiple clients, but wants it to be clear that the current minimum specification aims at single client with low settings."

I'm on a Core i7 with a GTX based Geforce card and I'm running CPU wise with 1 client open at 70 - 80 degree Cel.

There is nothing here on the performance and Bug issues at all, except hey sorry were massively boosting the minimum requirements despite only stating that it was shader mdoel 1 and 2 support we where dumping.

and given the CSM is meant to be our representatives we should be allowed a Live stream of their meetings.



Originally by: Moon Shadowfall
Sorry they can't redo the entire two days in a 10 minute discussion for you.




Originally by: Kane Molou
Any one else think that even the CSM appears to have things wrong, I mean watch the video and Mittens goes on about how this is all about the whole 'price' and 'pay to win' issue.. and yet this was never wholely about those or even Fearless they where the 'Spark' that lit the already near exploding boiler.

We have no firm anything, no reason for a half assed expansion, no reasoning for why we have a client that is now close to killing even Top of the line machines, No information on when we will ever get anything new from CCP..

The big issue here once again NDAs etc. We are what expected to just take on face value that CSM is not lieing that CCP is not lieing? Hello that = what started this in the first place.. Either there is a LOT more transperancy or come next resub i'm out with my 3 accounts.

All I know is that I'm tired of hearing that the issue is about 'Virtual Goods' it's not just VIRTUAL GOODS.

1. Fix the problem of you client causing machines to overheat.
2. Prove that your dedicated to fixing BUGS and Half Finished Objects.
3. Finish Incarna and make it a REAL expansion.
4. Promise that what we see avalible for NO money is not all we are going to get.
5. Fix the damned BUGS...
6. Have I said it yet.. oh that's right i have but.. Fix the Bugs and Half Finished Stuff you've released.
7. Oh and fix the unbalanced Super Caps while your at it.


Alakazam
Gallente
Skid-Row
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:48:00 - [249]
 

Mmhmhh..

good blog but I think a few questions were left unanswered.

I would really appriciate it if you make the AUR shop optional visible and remove AUR from personal wallet.

Yin Utada
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:48:00 - [250]
 

Originally by: Whiny McEmokid
I found this to be predictable feedback and will be looking more at what CCP do than what they say.

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:48:00 - [251]
 

I waited weeks for a lot of nothing. And CSM to show us how fast they brown nose.

Thats the feeling i have right now.

Carmine Lady
Amarr
Sinners.
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:49:00 - [252]
 

Thankyou to the csm, I am satisfied.

I feel an apology from me is due, I got kind of mad in one of the other threads last week and I completely take back what I said.

Because to be honest eve is a one of a kind.


Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:49:00 - [253]
 

Also, I'm pretty tired of seeing the old "poor communications" excuse trotted out over any/everything. You have beaten that one to death.

And wasn't that essentially the impetus for establishing the CSM in the first place? Yet, the problem persists, year after year after year.


Ban Doga
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:50:00 - [254]
 

Originally by: Spring Heeled Jim
Edited by: Spring Heeled Jim on 02/07/2011 17:43:23
The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time

So you could in theory still sell SP's.

As an example: You could maybe sell an SP boost that you could only buy once every six months, which would be less SP's than if you actually trained them. So time wins over money.

That probable makes no sense, but I know what I mean.

Rolling Eyes


So if I dump $1,000 into the Nex store that's the equivalent of 66,6 monthly subscription fees or 2,000 days or 48,0000 hours or over 90,000,000 SP.
It shouldn't be unfair to get those for my character since it's quite normal to accumulate during the amount of subscription time you can pay for with $1,000. Right?

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:51:00 - [255]
 

Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 02/07/2011 18:16:24
Rsum:
Half a page of drivel regurgitating what was blatantly obvious ab initio for people with half a brain. Presented in two flavours plus meaningless YouTube clip for your drama***** pleasure. None of the truly important topics were touched. A perfect smokescreen to distract people from the real issues:

- Expansions devoid of relevant features and fixes.
- Degradation of client performance.
- Introduction of new, critical bugs...
- ...not adressed in a timely fashion.
- Stagnant, unsatisfactory content not iterated on.
- Repeated incomplete implementation of new content.
- Questionable allocation of resources by CCP management.

The list goes on and keeps growing.

It was all a brilliant PR stunt and I salute CCP. If there's one thing they did right, it's this. Wouldn't even be too surprised to find out that Pann is the driving force behind it all, because she's one of the few on this whole rigmarole who actually know how to do their job.
Again CSM played their role as PR-puppets perfectly. Can't blame em, though. They're too incompetent and too easily lulled in by the PR machinery to realise what's actually going on. After all they're just a bunch of Eve nerds. If some of them weren't so full of themselves I might even like em. Nevermind.

Conclusion:
Business as usual. Hilmar was right. Carry on.

Space Wanderer
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:51:00 - [256]
 

Quote:
It is CCPs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.


Maybe I am just a suspicious guy too used in finding loopholes, but doesn't this sentence mean that CCP could just create a Rex (Royalty eXchange) and sell non-vanity there?

Anybody in CSM care to comment?

OCHOYTNIK
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:51:00 - [257]
 

Good enough, I've resubscribed my accounts though I note with interest that one of them didn't unsub properly.

Please improve your communication.

Off to buy a monocle to troll people with.

Maeve Nightside
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:51:00 - [258]
 

Originally by: Marthe Sirius
So the response to a lot of upset players is basically 'carry on as before'.

Nothing has changed except a lot of people are calling it a 'miracle'


This.

Does their statement erase the lack of attention to rolling out a good product? Does it restore trust? No to both. Waiting for action.

gargars
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:51:00 - [259]
 

Overall it will satisfy some people for the time being, and
I appreciate the effort of the many people involved in this.

A few comments though playing devil's advocate:

CCP states they have 'no plans' for game-breaking micro transactions. Well it was one year ago exactly that they promised NO MICRO-TRANSACTIONS AT ALL. This slip the CSM's mind? That promise failed in much less than a year didn't it and you say nothing about it even now? It doesn't make me feel an urge to trust them now sorry.

So since CCP and the CSM agree that you should 'never be able to buy an advantage with money over time'... that the Character Bazaar will be taken down? Doesn't it fly directly in the face of that agreement? It's a very blatant example of doing exactly that is it not? I know the "but it's isk and not real money" argument and it is a feeble one.

I am not a 'mittens' fan but he seemed to do ok at least in his video, except some hubris on what he thinks becomes what everyone thinks. Such as in the video his talking about 'the leak that set all this nonsense off' (nonsense is it?) and his using the past tense on some things as in 'the player base WAS upset'. Didn't know he could time travel.

The worst though to me was the statement in regards to Hilmar's insulting email. That IS a HUGE issue to many and all the CSM say is:

"We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it."

SYMPATHY?

Anyway thanks to the CSM for giving it a shot. I am sure everyone appreciates that.

Gloria Stitz
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:52:00 - [260]
 

Originally by: Freddie Failquitter
Edited by: Freddie Failquitter on 02/07/2011 17:29:51
So is this the part where all the failquitters who failed to quit "come out" and say they decided not to quit? Cool


No, I am quitting, since they are telling the same half lie as last year

Onnen Mentar
Murientor Tribe
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:52:00 - [261]
 

My thanks go to the CSM for investing so much time and effort.

To CCP: it will take more than those words to regain trust. I have yet to see a clear -convincing- statement that CCP will actively invest in EVE's continued development. Hilmar believes that incarna was a successful expansion, so no need for extra resources, right? Sad. :(

To the EVE devs: I trust you guys a lot more again, but I also feel like you do not have the resources (at all) to make EVE what you and the players want it to be.

In the end this has been a PR effort that so far has failed to take away my doubts about CCP as a company.

Eclorc
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:53:00 - [262]
 

"no plans" =/= will not (that "no plans" 'promise' has been broken before)

"game breaking" == wiggle-room rendering the rest meaningless

"investment of money...should not give you an unfair advantage...CSM,under NDA...agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle" == can be argued now that any for-advantage item can be traded for PLEX AFTER purchase.


Please wake up and engage brain before reading, sheeple.
The whole content of those statements has just rephrased the same crud in a more palatable way.


PS The moderator's Thread delet button is working again
2 threads I posted in disappeared.


Scared of the truth CCP?


Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:53:00 - [263]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 02/07/2011 17:34:41
Originally by: Vandrion


They said no MT at all last year.....Original NO MT statement by CCP

What they say doesn't matter.. Its what they do........

Notice that there is a difference between saying there will be no microtransactions, and saying that there are no plans for microtransactions. Last year at this time, CCP probably DIDN'T have any plans to introduce microtransactions.

As for myself, the only thing that I care about is clear and honest communication between the players and CCP. I could care less about microtransactions, so long as the game is fun to play.


So next year or next patch if some game altering MT comes into play you will still assume CCP had no plans for it?

What is the expiration date for this statement:

"It is CCPs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."


As you are so fond of posting links to that thread, perhaps if you look at it closely you will see that each and every statement is given specifically as a response to questions concerning skills for micro transactions.

Even if we overlook your taking specific sentences out of the context of the discussion that was happening, MT weren't even a blip on the radar back then. It is highly likely that there was no internal discussion going on about them at that time.

Currently there is plenty of discussion about the topic, in very specific terms. Statements made by CCP are completely within the proper context and there can be no misunderstandings on what is being discussed.

This means that if CCP changes their minds on the issue, the DEV blog and video will instantly be brought up again to crucify them.

Time to stop beating the dead horse.





The thread with CCP Shadow's statements is about reimbursement of skillpoints however there were a fair amount of other threads and comments in those threads regarding MT as a whole. Shadow's statement says no MT at all which is inclusive of the skillpoint issues. The context is correct Ranger... If he was specifically discussing skillpoints he would have said 'We have no plans to have micro-transactions for skillpoints". See the difference?

As far as what discussions CCP was or wasn't having at the time Shadow made his statement last year we will never know. However, the amount of time that it takes to totally design WIS and incorporate all the changes that just adding vanity MT entails is a rather large project. I am willing to bet that MT was on someones drawing board when the statement was made. If it wasn't then it was only a short time after the statement was made that the process would have begun to include MT in Eve.

Once again I ask:

What is the expiration date of your statement in regardes to having NO PLANS for $$$ for advantage in Eve?









The horse needs more flogging TBH... Damn thing isn't quite dead yet. Plus I need some more I told you so Ammo....

Franz Sigel
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:53:00 - [264]
 

Originally by: Velu Mate
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Can I buy now a monocle without getting flamed ?




ABSOLUTELY NOT!

the murder and plundering of Monocle wearers across New Eden
shall commence at dawn every 3rd Tuesday of the month.

This day shall be known forever as Day of the Monocle!Twisted EvilTwisted Evil


That I'll appreciate in the sense of an overdue peasant's revolt against monoclestocracie's haughtiness! Twisted Evil

Skah Seraph
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:54:00 - [265]
 

"Emotional attachment" to ship spinning?

Lol some Eve players are such babies. You miss your bottle too? Ugh too bad CCP caved to your whining

Coco Caine
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:55:00 - [266]
 

I'm quite disappointed. After almost two weeks there is some very careful talk about 'acknowledging' stuff, which is corporate spell for 'we knew you'd be ****ed off, but we don't really care'.

The main commitment is that there will be more development time dumped into cheaper out-of-thin-air items with no storyline, and that some dev will explain me, why a monocle is the most expensive in-game item.

Not with my money, ****yuo big time.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:55:00 - [267]
 

This is a good first step... But its only a first step.

The devil is in the details...

I will not be resubbing until the details of how/if you are bringing the hanger back.
If you are going to keep it permanently.
If everything in Incarna becomes MT based.
Whether you start taking the concerns of RP and immersion [Back story continuity] seriously.

Basically I need the details... I need the devblogs addressing the actual issues, particularly as it does sound like the MT issues drowned out most everything else and left many of my concerns unaddressed.
While I do appreciate the effort of the CSM, they don't represent me... The member I voted for didn't make it in... So more direct communication, on an ongoing basis is required with the playerbase, not just the CSM.

coolzero
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:55:00 - [268]
 

i still dont like the " There are no plans, and have been no plans "

its stil no anwer..


one day a CCP guy walks in

"hey man i have a plan, let sell non vanity items in the store..."

there where no plans, and have been no plans..but now there is a plan.


so anwer me once and for all and clearly

" there will be never ever be anything other then vanity items on the store, and if someone at CCP walks in and comes up with a plan to sell none vanity item he will get the same treatment as the boot.ini guy"

this will happen if you come in to the office and have a plan to sell none vanity item on the store..



Maplestone
Myth and Peace Lords
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:56:00 - [269]
 

CCP feels that vanity-only items are going to be important enough to invest time, tears and reputation to push through an item shop.

CSM feels vanity items are not important enough to worry about.

I find it difficult to reconcile these two opinions without one side being completely wrong.


Sepinar
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:56:00 - [270]
 

WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH

That is what the dev blog was. A whole lot of words that said absolutely nothing and left many holes to be filled in later as they deem fit. Non-vanity items will be in the CS and Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


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