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J Unit
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:39:00 - [211]
 

Edited by: J Unit on 02/07/2011 17:52:14

Erik Finnegan
Gallente
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:40:00 - [212]
 

I am happy that we have an NGO-type player representation, the CSM, which sacrifices private time and puts a lot of effort into sorting out CCPs communication inability.

All is good in New Eden - and always has been.

The CSM helped CCP to let us know that it is.

Epiphany Achura
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:40:00 - [213]
 

Originally by: Freddie Failquitter
Edited by: Freddie Failquitter on 02/07/2011 17:29:51
So is this the part where all the failquitters who failed to quit "come out" and say they decided not to quit? Cool


Pointless failtroll -1/10

As someone who has not unsubbed and in the spirit of renconcilation between the player-base and CCP I will not engage in Troll Roasting(tm)

I will just shake my head and hope that one day they will set a mental age requirement for posting in the Eve forums...at which point you will be permabanned.

P.S. Butterdog and Mr. Epeen are successful and witty trolls, please check their previous posts and attempt to emulate their style. Yes, thank you Rolling Eyes

Moon Shadowfall
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:40:00 - [214]
 

Sorry they can't redo the entire two days in a 10 minute discussion for you.




Originally by: Kane Molou
Any one else think that even the CSM appears to have things wrong, I mean watch the video and Mittens goes on about how this is all about the whole 'price' and 'pay to win' issue.. and yet this was never wholely about those or even Fearless they where the 'Spark' that lit the already near exploding boiler.

We have no firm anything, no reason for a half assed expansion, no reasoning for why we have a client that is now close to killing even Top of the line machines, No information on when we will ever get anything new from CCP..

The big issue here once again NDAs etc. We are what expected to just take on face value that CSM is not lieing that CCP is not lieing? Hello that = what started this in the first place.. Either there is a LOT more transperancy or come next resub i'm out with my 3 accounts.

All I know is that I'm tired of hearing that the issue is about 'Virtual Goods' it's not just VIRTUAL GOODS.

1. Fix the problem of you client causing machines to overheat.
2. Prove that your dedicated to fixing BUGS and Half Finished Objects.
3. Finish Incarna and make it a REAL expansion.
4. Promise that what we see avalible for NO money is not all we are going to get.
5. Fix the damned BUGS...
6. Have I said it yet.. oh that's right i have but.. Fix the Bugs and Half Finished Stuff you've released.
7. Oh and fix the unbalanced Super Caps while your at it.

Eclorc
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:40:00 - [215]
 

re: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=935

Quoted from CCP statement on Microtransaction store

"It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.

The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. The CSM, under NDA, has been presented with CCP‘s plans for continued evolution of the business model and agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle. CCP has committed to sharing their plans with the CSM on this front on an ongoing basis."



This is simply restating that which was said before but with some more spin.


"no plans" =/= will not (that "no plans" 'promise' has been broken before)

"game breaking" == wiggle-room rendering the rest meaningless

"investment of money...should not give you an unfair advantage...CSM,under NDA...agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle" == can be argued now that any for-advantage item can be traded for PLEX AFTER purchase.


Please wake up and engage brain before reading, sheeple.
The whole content of those statements has just rephrased the same crud in a more palatable way.

Now past caring, enjoy watching the game spiral to the pits of pay2win in the future.
If you think I'm exaggerating, ask yourself honestly why that wiggleroom and get-out clause was needed?

Ec out, and for good.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:41:00 - [216]
 

Good work from the CSM to deliver punches, good work from CCP to allow the CSM dishing out those punches.


Now let's see if action follows these fine words.

Dirty Little Secrets
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:41:00 - [217]
 

Edited by: Dirty Little Secrets on 02/07/2011 17:43:08
I was hoping for something closer to this:

"We are greedy gits that were too busy lusting over $1000 blue jeans to realize how very far off base we have become as human beings. We apologize to humanity for being so offensive and tasteless. Furthermore we are removing all Micro Transactions from this game as our loyal customers already pay a monthly fee which should encompass all content. We are freezing development of WoD and Dust so that those developer man hours can be used to maintain and fix our primary source of income as a company, EVE Online. We admit to treating our flagship product as a red headed stepchild the past few years while we were off chasing rainbows making other products.

We understand that after years of neglect and empty promises that our words mean nothing to you, so we are offering you action. All items in the NEX store will now be available free of charge and it will be renamed to the Noble Dispensary as such. The old station environment will be implemented in clients that choose to disable CQ through check box as these assets already exist and are easy to implement. Many many more Space Ship type fixes are being fast tracked, such as Super capital Balancing, Assault Frigate Bonuses and Hybrid Weapon Balancing. Once again we understand that the community is reasonably cynical towards out promises. We look forward to surprising you all with our actions."

Instead I got something that I would expect from a White House press conference.

Try Again CCP.

Jayem See
Caldari
Alien Ruffneck Force
Ignes Immortalis
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:41:00 - [218]
 

I'm pretty happy with the response as it is.

I think that the ship spinning issue needs attention sooner rather than later. As for the response to Hilmar's email......well there wasn't a response - they just acknowledged that people were irritated by it.

Overall I am pretty happy with the result - just a few clarifications needed around specifics.

Good work CSM - and CCP.

Whiny McEmokid
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:41:00 - [219]
 

I found this to be predictable feedback and will be looking more at what CCP do than what they say.

Hiroshima Jita
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:41:00 - [220]
 

Looks good.

Good job CCP, CSM.

Leigh Hekki
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:41:00 - [221]
 

Thanks for listening CCP. I'm glad you still are and I'm glad that Eve will continue.

Well done!

Scerolikk Teromni
Atrocious Order
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:42:00 - [222]
 

Consider my two accounts resubbed, CCP. This could have been easily avoided by much clearer communication, but I think you realize that. Please don't get caught in any deceptions about what you said-but-didn't-really-promise about your plans for microtransactions.

Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:42:00 - [223]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I am in transit back home (now in Boston Airport) but will be happy to answer questions as time permits. I hope the devblog clears up a lot of things for everyone.


I feel bad for you, Logan airport sux.

SerialTurd
APEX ARDENT COALITION
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:42:00 - [224]
 

Immediate questions were answered. As some have stated my new concern is future content.

Are we going to see more Incarna like expansions where the bulk of it is about walking in stations with little additions to space? If so, EVE will not survive.

Remember. This is all about internet space ships which are of the utmost importance. Walking in stations is at the bottom of that list and for many, not even on the list. Most could care less about it. Make sure your primary focus is and always will be the space content of Eve.

-Turd

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:42:00 - [225]
 

Originally by: Marthe Sirius
So the response to a lot of upset players is basically 'carry on as before'.

Nothing has changed except a lot of people are calling it a 'miracle'


Yup, let the sheeple rejoice.

CSM achieved nothing other then getting a free vacation for towing the CCP PR line.

That they are going along with the nex store pricing at all is alone insulting enough.

People claiming we won when we lost is hilarious.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:42:00 - [226]
 

Thanks to the CSM for flying out to represent the player base on such short notice.


Overall I'm satisfied with the response, and I'm willing to chalk up the Hilmar email as standard management "blowing sunshine up the worker's bees arses during a crisis" as a means of reassuring the worker bees that everything is all right, that there's nothing to see here, that management really is in control of the situation, and to not let the rioting adversely affect their cheery diligence to their jobs.


Epiphany Achura
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:42:00 - [227]
 

Originally by: Myz Toyou
Can I buy now a monocle without getting flamed ?




I don't think you need one, with that mohawk you are flashy enough. Less is more. However, try one out and make your own determination. There is a mirror in CQ. Smile

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:42:00 - [228]
 

Edited by: Sarina Berghil on 02/07/2011 17:44:41
It's a result but somewhat underwhelming.

I consider vanity items an integral part of gameplay, and if I am to pay a subscription, I expect the full game not just a subset of features.

Added to the lack of maintenance of EvE in general, the game isn't really worth the high subscription cost. You need to do better CCP, but I will check in occasionally to see if you are able to improve on things.


The more important questions, the lack of faith in CCP which I believe was a major reason for the exaggerated uprising seems to have been ignored completely.

Spring Heeled Jim
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:42:00 - [229]
 

Edited by: Spring Heeled Jim on 02/07/2011 17:43:23
The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time

So you could in theory still sell SP's.

As an example: You could maybe sell an SP boost that you could only buy once every six months, which would be less SP's than if you actually trained them. So time wins over money.

That probable makes no sense, but I know what I mean.

Rolling Eyes

Augustus Exterminatus
Caldari
Blue Cosmos
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:43:00 - [230]
 

Thank you,
I was worried i would have to try another game.
I look forward to continuing to enjoy this universe, and to doing business with a company who, although they do make mistakes, listen to their client base.

Red Twilight
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:43:00 - [231]
 

Originally by: Dirty Little Secrets
"We are greedy gits that were too busy lusting over $1000 blue jeans to realize how very far off base we have become as human beings. We apologize to humanity for being so offensive and tasteless. Furthermore we are removing all Micro Transactions from this game as our loyal customers already pay a monthly fee which should encompass all content. We are freezing development of WoD and Dust so that those developer man hours can be used to maintain and fix our primary source of income as a company, EVE Online. We admit to treating our flagship product as a red headed stepchild the past few years while we were off chasing rainbows making other products.

We understand that after years of neglect and empty promises that our words mean nothing to you, so we are offering you action. All items in the NEX store will now be available free of charge and it will be renamed to the Noble Dispensary as such. The old station environment will be implemented in clients that choose to disable CQ through check box as these assets already exist and are easy to implement. Many many more Space Ship type fixes are being fast tracked, such as Super capital Balancing, Assault Frigate Bonuses and Hybrid Weapon Balancing. Once again we understand that the community is reasonable cynical towards out promises. We look forward to surprising you all with our actions."


Try Again CCP.


Quoted for truth.

eniws yllis
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:44:00 - [232]
 

Good to know all of this, time will be the only instrument in whether it all happens as planned or not.

Just a minor point though: the translation links are at the bottom of the page, by which time those who need them will probably have logged out....disappointed no doubt...maybe they should have been near the header?

Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:44:00 - [233]
 

Edited by: Scorpyn on 02/07/2011 17:55:23
Ship spinning? Important? WTF?

Even important enough to get reintroduced???

Get your priorities straight.


Regarding the nex prices, imo 10% of the current prices would be expensive, and the current prices are simply ******ed. Adding more items at lower cost is not going to change that.

Imo, the captains quarters shouldn't have been introduced before the rest of the station stuff. Right now it's just a random addon that adds nothing to the actual gameplay.

Also, no left+right button zoom???


Regarding whether I'll resub or not, the answer is no. Why? PLEX. There is already pay to win. Not adding better versions in the nex store doesn't change that, and if it'll become possible to buy ships with the same stats as the current versions, then the game is destroyed.

I'm done listening to what CCP says. They have shown that they are heading in a direction that I don't want to go.


Thanks for the fish etc.

Velu Mate
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:44:00 - [234]
 

Originally by: Myz Toyou
Can I buy now a monocle without getting flamed ?




ABSOLUTELY NOT!

the murder and plundering of Monocle wearers across New Eden
shall commence at dawn every 3rd Tuesday of the month.

This day shall be known forever as Day of the Monocle!Twisted EvilTwisted Evil

Lexia Stone
Soul Snatchers
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:44:00 - [235]
 

Great job CCP, I think you handled this very well by inviting the CSM to discuss the issues instead of just dealing with them yourselves. They will tell you exactly what you need to hear, not just what you want to hear.

Thanks to our CSM for your hard work ensuring this game stays enjoyable and fun, and special thanks to The Mittani for keeping the CSM organized and focused on the real issues that had to be dealt with.

o7

Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:45:00 - [236]
 

"the reaction following the leaked internal communication could have been handled better"

Take note: The _reaction_ could have been _handled_ better.

No sorry at all about the content. The customer is to blame.

CCP obviosly did not get it.


1. "Good communication [..] BETWEEN CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP"

2. "communication surrounding the launch of the virtual goods store should have been better. To address that, we will write up dev blogs"

1. is what they promise, 2. is what they do.

Good communication is about asking and listening.

If you puke in front of somebody else's feet that's no communication.

CCP obviosly did not get it.


"The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with „ship spinning"."

They did need help to understand flattening out a 3D room into 1.5D and removing features such as ship activation via drag'n drop is a reduction in features and crippling the user interface?

CCP obviosly did not get it.


"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."

Thought you had translators over there?

"should" instead of "must" ?

Ha, ha, ha!


No word on how CCP plans to implement QA on their communication pathways.

Without diagnosing what went wrong within the internal/external communication and identifying single points of failure they'll **** up over and over again.

They did it in the past, they will do it in the future.

Priceless.

Manos Heimenbarger
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:45:00 - [237]
 

I reckon this is good enough to get me to resub... But know that I will be watching closely, and the day anything non-vanity shows up in an item shop, I'm out. This is a good step to restoring trust, but there is still a ways to go. Keep on the right path.

Grimster
Reikoku
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:45:00 - [238]
 

I'm satisfied. Although I was sceptical about the outcome, both sides have come to a grown-up and sensible agreement.

Definitive no gold ammo, vanity only.
Promise to have a ship spinning dock.

These tick my boxes, though I probably won't resub again (at least for cash-money anyway) but nice to see the system in process.

GG everyone involved.

Leocadminone
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:46:00 - [239]
 

"Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu."

"current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance"

Which part of "we were promised a PERMANENT opt out of Walking In Stations" does CCP insist on NOT UNDERSTANDING?

There are a LOT of us that have ZERO INTEREST in this "Sims in Space" visual fluff crap, and to be blunt about it this crap will NEVER match the speed and ease of use FROM A GAMEPLAY STANDPOINT of the non-WIS environment.

As far as *I* am concerned, the day "Walking in stations" is FORCED on Eve is the day I and all of my alts unsubscribe from Eve to never return.

So much for "Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP". Retracting on promises made for YEARS is a direct contradiction of this statement, at the "actions speak louder than words" level.

MAKE OPT OUT PERMANENT AS PROMISED.


CCP, you also need to look at the massive increase in INCREASED BANDWIDTH usage by Incarna. The game is flat out UNPLAYABLE on some lower-end ADSL connections, which is what your current RECOMMENDED standards specifies. My current 3G Cellular connection is FASTER than many ADSL connections, yet the lag on gate jumping - docking - undocking has gone through the ROOF since Incarna, after already taking a serious bandwidth-based performance hit in Incursions.
A lot of this appears to be the new "we are going to FORCE you to download ALL portrats" change in Incursions, and it don't matter how much you upgrade your "portrait server" when you're overloading the BANDWIDTH of a lot of your customers, many of which don't want the damned portraits AT ALL and even do everything we can to turn the damned things OFF, only to end up with tons of them on our machine ANYWAY.


IMO the whole "push out 2 expansions a year no matter HOW crappy and HOW buggy" concept is a very bad idea. Even SoE stopped doing that **** to Everquest, and it's certainly never been a POSITIVE selling point to anyone that's been playing MMORGS for any length of time.
CCP NEEDS to take a serious look at putting some real effort into fixing their EXISTING game and the many LONGSTANDING bug issues with it, THEN you can start thinking SENSIBLE about adding new stuff.

TO be blunt, the last *2* expansions have been total CRAP as far as I am concerned, I'd be a TON happier if Incursions and Incarna had never happened. They added NOTHING to my positive gameplay experience, but have had MAJOR NEGATIVE IMPACTS to it.


Franz Sigel
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:46:00 - [240]
 

Thx for notifying! Finally they've done it - I read it and what they say goes fine with me so far. Surely will resub. What is not being addressed is the topic of neglected EvE content for the sake of developer resources going into WoD and Dust. But I have not expected that this be solved by what has been an outspoken crisis diplomacy. Instead I see this as a task for the CSM in the upcoming time. I expect that CCP have learned their lessons concerning communication issues. For me, EvE has not died this weekend.

But there's another kind of death that comes from oversaturation, which is not the game's fault, but a normal effect of long-time immersion into a virtual reality. Had this oversaturation myself with Lotro which I've been playing intensely since it's start in 2007 - and that's the reason why I'm now back here again. Other players will migrate away from EvE for the same reason. For them leaving, it seems to me (as has been multiply pointed out in the past threads), the current crisis is the inducement, but not the cause.



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