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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:34:00 - [1111]

Are the people who comment on how offended they are by the email and newslatter unable to understand english or is just me.... the email that was sent was succent and not meant for the wider comunnity it was amongst employees, the news letter was plainly a debate and discussed a number of intersting issues from a company perspective. Get a grip (to those who are offended) CCP can not function without its customer/client base. They are obviously monitoring things right now and it has been only a vocal few who seem to love expressing their discrungtledness on these forums that have actually caused a mountain out of a mole hill. Wake up we still have eve and there is future a head of us. I admire this company for being able to stick to and develop this game for so long and look forward to all the new exciting twists, changes and improvements that they will bring.

Yeo San
Neoanarchistic Society
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:57:00 - [1112]

I am still disappointed.

1. no excuse from ccp
2. talk about talks, but not results
3. nexstore still exists, eve will go capitalistic

if both sides claim victories (by compromise) it's a loss.

Posted - 2011.07.09 10:29:00 - [1113]

I too remain sceptical and disappointed over recent events.

My mining activity has ceased, since I perceive it as broken with puny faint beams that I can no longer see clearly or hear.
In addition if one dares to swap out a mining laser for a salvager (using the Orca fitting service) to mop up the rats carcasses then the beams disappear entirely for the remainder of the session there.

Mining for manufacture is my primary goal, function and indeed enjoyment in Eve.
I imagine few will understand how the life of those aims has been sucked out by CCP's ill advised cavalier and careless tampering.
It took a while to reach 'God miner' status with multiple characters working in concert, and then even longer to orchestrate the effort into a profitable enterprise; all sadly now stopped while I search for motivation in CCP's words that things will be rectified any time soon.

Taking a leaf from Hilmars book I guess what I do is significant, not what I say here. That is such a pity and far cry from the early days of Eve when the devs cried out for feedback, even taking time to converse and respond to our thoughts and comments.

All I've seen so far is patch after patch primarily concerned with CQ, which I have switched off, MT which I will never use, and carefully worded general rhetoric that lacks key elements like: Never will MT's of any kind compromise time earned performance.

Thanks for my say despite the distinct feeling it will be ignored or more likely join the file named: Yeah we know all that, we'll get around to it the next blue moon, maybe.

Posted - 2011.07.09 11:13:00 - [1114]

Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

Because it's impossible to cover everything in one statement, had we tried to enumerate someone would have found we had forgotten and gone "well, they obviously left room for *this one*"

There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win"._____

Ship Spinning:

There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for:
1) we like to spin ships, it's fun.
2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.

CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns.
It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.

The bolded statement by a CSM needs to be explained..........

I have asked to have this explained multiple times.... It would appear that $$$ for advantage is still coming just not in a GAME BREAKING form.

What are you setting us up for????????

Still Waiting......

You're probably never going to get any meaningful answer. Probably because the forum guys at CCP have been instructed not to say anything, if not for CCP's current attitude of 'ignore the problem until it goes away'.

Anyway, the vague wording and lack of correspondence should be enough to tell you that 'gold ammo' will probably be available in a few months. Let alone the apparent contempt management have for the playerbase, as Hilmar has yet to apologize for the tone conveyed by that leaked email (and no, an apology that the email got leaked -- a "sorry we got caught" -- is not even close to enough). I'm sure someone will correct me if that has changed; I've been much more interested in other things.

Shahirahh Orgasana
Posted - 2011.07.09 12:20:00 - [1115]

Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: CSM
We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance.

We wanted to choose when we disembarked, have you been reading the threads?


Expansions of ANY MMO should always give players MORE choices, not take them away. The Captain's quarters should have been made OPTIONAL from the very beginning, and the ship-spinning should never have been removed. As others have stated, when the hangar view is reinstated, it should be the default view after docking, and THEN there should be an option to disembark to Captain's Quarters.

As for the Incarna v.s pre-Incarna performance statement: frankly, Incarna performance will NEVER "be similar to" pre-Incarna performance on the same hardware. I mean, how can it??? You're talking about a highly detailed 3D environment with even-more-detailed avatar models and holographic displays updated in realtime, versus a single simple ship model rendered in a very basic hangar. Incarna must throw at least ten times as many 3D triangles at the GPU than the old ship-spinning.

I shudder to think what performance will be like when Incarna is expanded beyond the Captain's Quarters, e.g. actual station interiors where more than one player avatar is being rendered. You think GPUs are melting down now...

Shahirahh Orgasana
Posted - 2011.07.09 12:32:00 - [1116]

Originally by: Leocadminone
"Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu."

"current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance"

Which part of "we were promised a PERMANENT opt out of Walking In Stations" does CCP insist on NOT UNDERSTANDING?

There are a LOT of us that have ZERO INTEREST in this "Sims in Space" visual fluff crap, and to be blunt about it this crap will NEVER match the speed and ease of use FROM A GAMEPLAY STANDPOINT of the non-WIS environment.

As far as *I* am concerned, the day "Walking in stations" is FORCED on Eve is the day I and all of my alts unsubscribe from Eve to never return.

So much for "Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP". Retracting on promises made for YEARS is a direct contradiction of this statement, at the "actions speak louder than words" level.


CCP, you also need to look at the massive increase in INCREASED BANDWIDTH usage by Incarna. The game is flat out UNPLAYABLE on some lower-end ADSL connections, which is what your current RECOMMENDED standards specifies. My current 3G Cellular connection is FASTER than many ADSL connections, yet the lag on gate jumping - docking - undocking has gone through the ROOF since Incarna, after already taking a serious bandwidth-based performance hit in Incursions.
A lot of this appears to be the new "we are going to FORCE you to download ALL portrats" change in Incursions, and it don't matter how much you upgrade your "portrait server" when you're overloading the BANDWIDTH of a lot of your customers, many of which don't want the damned portraits AT ALL and even do everything we can to turn the damned things OFF, only to end up with tons of them on our machine ANYWAY.

IMO the whole "push out 2 expansions a year no matter HOW crappy and HOW buggy" concept is a very bad idea. Even SoE stopped doing that **** to Everquest, and it's certainly never been a POSITIVE selling point to anyone that's been playing MMORGS for any length of time.
CCP NEEDS to take a serious look at putting some real effort into fixing their EXISTING game and the many LONGSTANDING bug issues with it, THEN you can start thinking SENSIBLE about adding new stuff.


Shahirahh Orgasana
Posted - 2011.07.09 13:45:00 - [1117]

You know, after all the drama and teeth-grinding and hand-wringing and everything else, I think what CCP needs to take away from all this is the following:

CCP, your paid subscribers ARE YOUR ONLY REAL INVESTORS.

WE are the ones giving you money, not some army of disinterested stockholders(*). We're the ones paying for your salaries and your cars and your homes and your computers and the food on your tables. If the entire playerbase quit, let's face it, you'd all be standing in the unemployment line the very next day, if not panhandling on the streets.

So you would do well to remember who's really in charge around here, and remember the old motto: THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT.


Having said that, I'm sure the people at CCP who make all the game-changing decisions will never read this entire thread (or all the related ones from the past few weeks), much less my lone post. But I have to try.

I think CCP should never force a new feature like Captain's Quarters on the playerbase, when they know what the performance penalty will be. Just because I have a PC powerful enough to run it, doesn't mean that the majority of the players do. CQ (and the whole "walking in stations" idea) should be optional, as it's clear that many players simply don't want it. (I also read somewhere that the EVE client continually downloads character portraits in the background, which sucks up bandwidth some players can't afford and causes lag and other issues. Again, a "feature" which should have been optional.)

As for the NeX Store, I have to say that not only should there never be any obvious "game-breaking" items like special weapons or ammo, there shouldn't be anything that's even remotely analogous or comparable to items already present in the in-game markets. It would be great to have ship-coloring or texturing kits available, yes, or maybe even bolt-on parts that change the overall look (without affecting attributes, mind you)... but not actual ships or ship blueprints of any kind.

Finally, it almost (almost!) goes without saying that a lot of the current angst COULD have been avoided. There NEEDS to be more honest and open communication between CCP and the players. More facts and answers and details, less NDAs and secret internal memos!!!

(* - I seem to recall that CCP is not a publicly-traded company. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)

Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.07.10 11:23:00 - [1118]

Good job both CSM and CCP to calm down this ridiculous situation due to a simple fact: bad communication

Every one can write blog's or notes but communication is a full time job, you guys can see from this situation that strong words badly used or understood can create this kind of situation, avoid it.
Ask some advices to Rip Teg, it's his job and he does it very well Wink

I think this whole mess is positive, people discuss = the game becomes better and CCP becomes better too.

Posted - 2011.07.15 05:14:00 - [1119]

still not subbed. still playing perpetuum.

most people i play with will tell you i'm a nice guy so long as you don't **** me off. if you do, i don't forgive easy.

you ****ed me off ccp, i won't forgive easily.

Cain Anung
Posted - 2011.07.15 12:41:00 - [1120]

Well, been on the forums for a while now, after the "incident".
Its pretty hard to stay interested in these fora, since the amount of strings and posts are so many, that youd need a month to sort them all through. Some strings even has the same topics?! Or there are heavy cross-references, to and from the string. A lot of the postings are nothing but stupid adolescent ramblings, or single-line blah. A pity to undermine the community, in such a fashion, imo.
The posts Ive made, has barely been noticed. And most reply´s are just semi-insulting stuff, with no real value, in it self.
Would be nice if there were a forum, with only serious posts, but I guess thats impossible.

And now I see, that CCP is rectifying some things, in coorporation with the CSM, which in my book, is just fine. Good to know CCP takes us serious, whatever some of you might think. Keep it up, CCP. Dont fear the players, but respect their righteous verdicts, when they are valid and respectful. Is all I advice. Its just a shame some players find it nescessary to laugh in your face and spit at you, even after you try to right the wrongs.
I guess some nerds need to whine, all the time(you know who you are). This nerd is cautiously optimistic, and rather tired of the BS, thats being spread.

Whatever happens with this game, its still the only REAL space-MMO out there, and will remain so, if we all help make it happen. For those of you that dont understand that, go and play wow or some other 64-player, per-server-game, out there. Those are easy to play and youll get what you want. Leave this adult game for the adults....YARRRR!!

Cry Nova
Posted - 2011.07.16 06:21:00 - [1121]

I'm not mad about the NeX store, the Captain's Quarters, the half-done expansion or even the blatant admittance of trying to rake in more cash.

I'm mad for two reasons. The first being your neglect of the core problems of the game. The second is that you thought you would get away unscathed.

How about instead of attempting to sell us $1000 digital jeans, you make EVE more fun to play; specifically put your employees that are assigned to peddle NeX merchandise to us on the lag problem. Incarna so far isn't an expansion, it's a patch. A poorly planned one.

If you're trying to grab in more subscribers with stories of epic battles, why don't you make it so epic battles can actually happen instead of seeing how many of us will shell out real money for a stupid monocle.

Encina Technologies
Namtz' aar K'in
Posted - 2011.07.18 11:39:00 - [1122]

Originally by: "Dev Blog"
It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.

I'd just like to repeat this here and hope to remain convinced that in addition to the above plea no plans will ever be made to introduce non-vanity items for Aurum.

Intellectual Wookies
Posted - 2011.07.19 14:13:00 - [1123]

Edited by: Cattegirn on 19/07/2011 14:13:57
Originally by: Eterna Unum
Edited by: Eterna Unum on 03/07/2011 06:38:30
Originally by: Cattegirn
What they needed to say was "We will not", rather than "There are no plans". Quite honestly nothing has changed.


There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.

This statement is very plain english, especially when paired with:

It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only.

They have never planed, and never have planned to. What more does saying "We will not" add that changes anything if this doesn't give you warm fuzzies? Are you saying they have plans to change their plans that isn't actually planned??

I am on the side of needing better communication, and I agreed when it appeared they sidestepped such a clear statement in the earlier blogs. But if you want something new to complain about, there are more than a few already in this thread. But, barring that, get a grip, or at least start supporting your argument rationally. Please, enlighten me...

Edit: Another response dawned on me that I didn't originally think of.
Originally by: Cattegirn
What they needed to say was "We will not", rather than "There are no plans". Quite honestly nothing has changed.

Obvious troll is obvious.

The problem has nothing to do with the post, but rather your inability to think and reason out what words actually mean versus what you wish they meant.

I have no plans, personally, to buy a car in the next 3 years. Will I? I don't know.

Get it?

Whether they meant to word it in a way that still leaves the door open or not, the door IS STILL OPEN. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the phraseology is deliberate to keep that avenue open for themselves. And that comes from spending years watching how this company operates.

Plans are like dreams and desires, and they are as fickle. Sorry that bothered you to point out, I'm certain you need a vacation.

grunf Ijonen
Posted - 2011.07.20 23:43:00 - [1124]

Just shows that The CSM is **** atm...

Andy Landen
Posted - 2011.07.26 15:23:00 - [1125]

Edited by: Andy Landen on 31/07/2011 15:14:57
An idea for CCP. Take all the things which make Eve great and modify this new store idea to give everyone the best of what we all want. Allow me to detail the great things going for Eve which seem to apply in this case.

Vanity items is a great idea. Perhaps even vanity ship decals to personalize the ship. Player crafting is a great idea. A largely unregulated market where supply and demand mostly rule is also quite intriguing (that is actually the initial thing which got me in).

So here is my idea. Vanity items crafted by players using planetary materials and sold on the open Eve market for ISK like any other item. Might use: Polytextiles, Silicate glass, super tensile plastics, consumer electronics, etc. Boosts PI and Dust importance and gameplay, too.

The greatest part is that this idea simply translates this new currency back into ISK and therefore still grants you all those extra vanity dollars as people purchase additional ISK for those vanity items with real money through trading PLEX. Player crafted vanity items FTW.

Edit: Hey look, I got 1,000 AUR. Great. I can get .. boots. Players didn't craft these. The prices are insanely high and immune to supply and demand market forces. I only see these while in station if I get bored and stop doing important things to look at them. How about you re-think this, CCP?

Alex Sinai
Mining And Probing Specialists
Posted - 2011.08.02 21:39:00 - [1126]

I'm a new player in EVE. Less then a year playing the game. But my reasons of coming into it and loving it exactly the same as most players. No MT no P2W no brainless immediate fighting style stuff. To win you have to think, follow your strategy and it is close enough to real life but with sci-fi environment concerning decision making process and consequences to it. A game to play for years to come. But... after reading countless posts on this topic issue at various threads and then that combined statement of CCP and CSM with transcripts... WAKE UP CALL!

Take a good look at that statement and transcript!
Without optimistic hopefull stance but like you would look at investment of a few thousand dollars in real life. And all of the old players invested a lot through the years only to count monthly payments.
What these statements tell you? Nothing you don't know already.
What these statements promise you? Nothing to counter the allegations. No plans... dont have plans... that is lawyers language which does not promise you that there will not be opposite plans next day after the statement. That statement avoids any and all lawsuits when CCP will introduce P2W of any kind into EVE since nowhere there stated that it will not be introduced. Especially that CCP promised last year that they dont have any plans for MT. Take a look at NoX. Isn't it an MT store? They had no plans at that moment. Or had they? In a year from now I'm sure they will have P2W kind of items and/or services. Reasonable thinking people here already stated that concern.
Now take a look at the transcript of meeting. Close your eyes and imagine all that conversation the transcript of which we have. Can't really imagine it otherwise then on a stage? Same thing here. Its a staged scene and such conversation could not be possible in real life. It could be possible if named "journalist report of a meeting" but certainly not a transcript.

CCP to restore trust of customers in you the only thing you can do is to remove that NoX store immediately. And forget about idea of implementing it for a long time. Next time you try to install that store even for the best of reasons run a decent self-explanatory campaign with promises that there will be no MT apart from vanity items that will not affect the game in any way. Or customers you already lost wont return. But you know that without my advice.

I must admit that after learning about these events and especially after reading that lawyer language CCP/CSM statement and transcript my own trust in CCP sunk to all time low levels. It promises nothing. It only reassures suspicion about your next step on MT in light of NoX store and controversy around it.
I already advised my friends to whom i recommended EVE to hold on about it and continue their WoW and Star Trek endeavours for awhile. I absolutely promise you CCP if I ever see any absolutely any item in that NoX store that changes any attribute of anything in game my subscription will be cancelled right away and I will make sure all my friends receive my recommendation to keep away from EVE.

I would seriously suggest to sack out your business analysts and anyone who had anything to do with that kind of strategy you guys attempt to impliment. We the players have seen the raise and fall of many decent good games and companies thanks to stupid decisions made by smooth talking people who had zero understanding or caring about anything but their pockets. These people always had golden parachutes and made sure they were the last to blame. It is players and developers who were always blamed. Players did not accept their "brilliant" ideas and developers wrongly implemented them. It will be real pain to see so wonderful game as EVE going that road.
And CCP going that road right now as we speak unless CCP really change policy instead of "lawyer talk". Player base of EVE have way higher IQ then some of CCP top management would like to think.

Posted - 2011.08.25 07:57:00 - [1127]

My mom used to work for the pharmaceutical industry.
We have had a big scandal here recently about one of the local labs having caused the death of hundreds.
Wise mom said : whenever one of these big labs issue a denying statement you can take whatever it is they are denying, bet on it being the truth and take that to the bank.

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