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Noel Tiberius
Caldari
Coffee Hub
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:17:00 - [901]
 

Edited by: Noel Tiberius on 03/07/2011 10:17:54
I'm pretty happy with the outcome. Nothing unexpected came out of it, but it's good to know that CCP takes the players concerns seriously.

I was a bit dissapointed though, I had hoped for more info about the future of EVE. Maybe something for a new devblog? A part of the player base feels neglected, and it would be a good idea to sum up all the plans for the next 6-12 months.

Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:18:00 - [902]
 

Originally by: Kiran
Originally by: Dalketh
Originally by: Kiran


Good job on the statements, I did have my doubts about a Goonswarm CEO being in there. But like the rest of us you have a passion and view on Eve. Thank you.


And how did the goon CEO redeem himself exactly? By getting no apology for Hilmar's email insulting the entire community?

Or was it the video of him talking talking talking and then practically attaching his mouth to the Dev's crotch towards the end?

Pretty hair though. Glad he had enough time for that. Rolling Eyes


And some people will never be pleased no matter what you do. The devil you do the devil you don't. In your eyes the CSM would never of won no matter what the outcome was. They are under a NDA so can't say much, but I ask you this. Do you know what the NDA means?

Besides, the minutes are coming, and if you must insist, you can dissect those once they're out. Of course, it probably won't matter regardless, as Kiran said.

Nehmen Geld
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:21:00 - [903]
 

Some of the most fascinating weeks. A truly seminal example of agile software development processes in practice. The software industry should be all over this like a plague. Release, review, adapt, release, review, adapt.

Bravo!

Dallenn
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:24:00 - [904]
 

I'm quite happy with the statement, restores a lot of my faith in Eve. Now we only need CCP to do its magic for in-space content, as that's where the game is. Hmm more small-scale PvP perhaps?

Ankh
Minmatar
Angel Constellation
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:29:00 - [905]
 

Generally satisfied, thanks to those who have clearly worked hard to get this far. I'd like clarification on a couple of points:

(1) The statement that "CCP has no plans to introduce 'Gold Ammo' or 'Gold ships' in the Aurum store" needs to be stronger imho. I'd like to see something like: "EVE will NEVER have pay-to-win options in any shape or format".

More importantly:

(2) Will CCP will continue to invest in the development of EVE as a unique and compelling product in its own right? This did not seem to be covered in the statement or vid. My perception remains that EVE development is currently focused around it being a platform for the introduction of new content supporting the develoment of other future products. A statement that "CCP has long term plans for EVE and its continued development as a unique core product within its future portfolio" will be most welcome.

Confirmation of these, and I'll be a happy bunny.

Ankh.
Internet spaceship pilot in New Eden since May 2003.

Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:29:00 - [906]
 

Originally by: Terh Rumnatarn
Reading the blog left me with an unknown taste. Don`t know what it is yet.


Does it taste like a fart smells like?

Inspiration
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:32:00 - [907]
 

Originally by: Nehmen Geld
Some of the most fascinating weeks. A truly seminal example of agile software development processes in practice. The software industry should be all over this like a plague. Release, review, adapt, release, review, adapt.

Bravo!


I love your sarcasm :)


Kimbli d'Rohan
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:32:00 - [908]
 

I unsubbed pending these discussions, and I'm sure the numbers of players doing so concentrated CCPs minds wonderfully. (Would love to see those numbers - finance must have been having kittens....) So having expressed my dissatisfaction previously, I'm going to express my cautious approval by resubbing - for the time being. I note the 'wiggle room' which CCPs statement gives them, but I think they have had a huge wake up call from our reaction and we have collectively made a big difference here. Yes there are outstanding questions but to me EVE is still unique and while it stays true to the vision that brought me here, I'll stay.

Nehmen Geld
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:37:00 - [909]
 

Edited by: Nehmen Geld on 03/07/2011 10:38:30
Originally by: Inspiration
Originally by: Nehmen Geld
Some of the most fascinating weeks. A truly seminal example of agile software development processes in practice. The software industry should be all over this like a plague. Release, review, adapt, release, review, adapt.

Bravo!


I love your sarcasm :)




In this instance I'm not being sarcastic, I'm actually quite enthused by the whole thing. This is a seminal and global example of the "inversion" effect of agile development where the customer becomes king, the workers drive direction (let's hope), and the management end up being a bunch of powerless facilitators. Somebody could do a software management PhD based on the past week. :)

Lean and agile approaches are all about giving up on control and embracing chaos. This is truly seminal, truly.

Ordon Gundar
Caldari
Celestial Enterprises Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:40:00 - [910]
 

Is no-one else concerned by the wording of "..game breaking items, like ships with different stats to those in game.."??

That is not the issue! The issue is that ANY ship, or ANYTHING currently available on the in-game market should NOT be available for purchase on NEX. Not just super ships!

I still think there is a lot of wiggle room on these statements.

Estelle McDeal
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:45:00 - [911]
 

Basically all the said is that they "dont have plans" to make eve p2w.

Is it the same "no plans" statement as mentioned here?

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1341909&page=1#7

Imho all they did was giving us a big show with no content at all.

It will turn out that eve will become a p2w game and just check their earlier statements to see how fast "no plans" will change into solid actions.

No offense to CSM but you guys have been abused as their PR machine and you got fooled.

Just my opinion. Accs will stay unsubbed.

Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:54:00 - [912]
 

Originally by: Marcus Aurelijus
Right,

Well at least that's moved me from a I'll let my game time run out to a well see what they DO instead.
I do notice a slightly disturbing lack of presence in the statement about FUTURE MT - but I guess this is good as it gets.

So what would make me a happy capsuleer?
- A even clearer statement from CCP not only to have no current plans for beyond-vanity MT but a promise not to start making those plans in the foreseeable (<-- see: im being nice here) future. I have been putting a lot of time into this game after all and would like a little more certainty if its sensible to spend more.

- An apology from Hilmar himself for the appalling attitude and disrespect hes shown the whole community.

I'd back your suggestions all the way to the bank. Especially the 'foreseeable future' deal. After reading Trebor's blog and other stuff, it does seem important to not cut it off ENTIRELY from a shareholder-liability standpoint, but extend it out as far as you can without saying the dreaded 'never'.

Also, a Hilmar apology would do wonders for quite a few people, from the sounds of things.

Dreamchasr
0utbreak
Outbreak.
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:54:00 - [913]
 

Gonna resub the account I let run out.

Im quite pleased with the statement. As long as MT is limited to vanity items then fair enough.

..and bring back old hangar functionality :)

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:55:00 - [914]
 

Quote:
It is CCPs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only.


Satisfied.

Inspiration
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:00:00 - [915]
 

Originally by: Nehmen Geld
Edited by: Nehmen Geld on 03/07/2011 10:38:30
Originally by: Inspiration
Originally by: Nehmen Geld
Some of the most fascinating weeks. A truly seminal example of agile software development processes in practice. The software industry should be all over this like a plague. Release, review, adapt, release, review, adapt.

Bravo!


I love your sarcasm :)




In this instance I'm not being sarcastic, I'm actually quite enthused by the whole thing. This is a seminal and global example of the "inversion" effect of agile development where the customer becomes king, the workers drive direction (let's hope), and the management end up being a bunch of powerless facilitators. Somebody could do a software management PhD based on the past week. :)

Lean and agile approaches are all about giving up on control and embracing chaos. This is truly seminal, truly.


If anything agile at CCP has shown to break exiting features and result in sloppy quality that takes weeks to sometimes a month or more to correct. The projects that are not done agile, like stackless IO seem to be of much better quality out of the box. It is almost as people are rewards for delivering something without caring if it actually works as intended...or the intend is missing altogether.

As for the players being in control or CCP giving any design control out of hands. The only thing I see in this blog is that they say...get lost player base,...we are doing it our way and here is some small change to keep you happy, no promises. And that small change being stuff they took out the first place!

I really have seen nothing properly addressed, whatsoever, it is just one big wall of spin! And you see that as the superiority of agile development? I take it you love agile so much, it is almost a religion in its own right to you. And in turn is making you blinded for what happened and how CCP dealt with it.

Dream on, someone so deep into it, cannot be seen reality!

Hikaru Kobayashi
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:01:00 - [916]
 

Edited by: Hikaru Kobayashi on 03/07/2011 11:01:51
Ship spinning... hahaha. Its true though, I love ship spinning!

Sethose Olderon
Gryphon Chancellery
Gryphon League
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:03:00 - [917]
 

Ok, I feel somewhat better by the following statements, but I still don't trust CCP. I will believe it when I see it;

Originally by: Statement on behalf of CCP from Arnar Hrafn Gylfason, Senior Producer for EVE Online
...[T]he Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store. [,] The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.


However, this statement still leaves much to be desired. It doesn't clearly address the pricing issues that players have raised. However, I am not jumping on the whine bandwagon, this does make me highly annoyed. I don't understand why this took two days for crafting and submission. Lawyers perhaps?;

Originally by: Statement on behalf of CCP from Arnar Hrafn Gylfason, Senior Producer for EVE Online
...[T]he launch of the virtual goods store should have been better. To address that, we will write up dev blogs that explain the pricing strategy of the NeX store and the price tiering system. We will also communicate that we intend to put the focus on further fleshing out the lower price range and give visual examples of upcoming items.


Notice there is no mention of reducing the prices, and I find the statement somewhat arrogant, in that CCP feels that they need to 'explain their pricing strategy' to us once again. An explanation is not necessary, we understand the strategy. The issue of pricing is a component of the strategy which has been explained well enough, the players simply don't like it.

I am willing to give CCP the benefit of the doubt here however, I feel they are trying, but I still think they should try harder. We shall see the eventual future that these discussions have wrought, however I think for the most part it was nothing more than alot of back slapping and various machinations of the Good 'Ol Boy System.

crymyname
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:16:00 - [918]
 

ok so that was nothing i wanted to hear
we get spining ships hanger back ..... till they fix incarna... not what i wanted to hear ... i don't want to walk round .. simples

and what are these grey areas that the csm are so worried about ???
to me things have been said and done to plz ccp .. the csm have had a good time a little chat and maybe a nice cheque/cash to take home ..
i've got 27 days left ...
anyone want to buy a pen and get a free toon with it ... ????




CurtisH
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:20:00 - [919]
 

Originally by: Alakazam
Mmhmhh..
I would really appreciate it if you make the AUR shop optional visible and remove AUR from personal wallet.



This.

I'thari
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:21:00 - [920]
 

Edited by: I''thari on 03/07/2011 11:26:21
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I don't think so. They have to implement a new "temporary" hangar view using the Incarna engine in order to deal with the performance issues and meet their original functionality commitment to CSM and the community.

Then, at such time as they can meet that commitment in the CQ, they want to remove this "temporary" hangar. We all disagree with this last step, and will do our best to change their minds. We will just keep bugging them about it, and hopefully they will make it permanent just to get us to "STFU, already".
Even tho I wish I'm wrong about this one, for now I'm under the impression that they got only "ship spinning" part, not functionality of old hangar or impression breaking dock=disembark instead of dock(hangar)-> disembark(cq)->/dance in station.

They did promice to make it optional, but instead of giving players logical reason, they just force everyone into it (and yes, at least for now, CQ=incarna, if devs don't understand that). Ofc, it's way simplier solution, but even with "no one likes being forced to do somehting" is not exactly a valid argument, such design descisions are contradictory with principles "sandbox MMOs" are built upon.

According to their own early (before this year) vids, it should have been: dock-> disembark (old UI dissapear - otherwise you can't really be "off the net") -> you go about your shady business. Considering that having game without human avatars tend to attact player base that doesn't care about such things so much, CCP needs to re-think their stance on this a little (it's fundamental waste of resources, re****ed in reduced functionality, from that POV).

Yes, players that care alot about avatars will be attracted, but it'll require actual gameplay features added to station enviroment... not to mention way more "eye candy" than it currently has (or CCP seem to be able to offer). I know that "this is just a tiny part", "they working on it", "it gonna be best expansion ever", etc.,etc.... but with all "feature abandoment" trend it'll take them several really cool expansions to take their word on "all will be cool/we'll make it work later"... for now I don't see it happening.




ALso this:
Originally by: Alakazam
Mmhmhh..
I would really appreciate it if you make the AUR shop optional visible and remove AUR from personal wallet.

Aur has no place in wallet for as long as it's not used for market orders. At least don't display it using different (brighter) color than you use for isk, it's irritating.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:23:00 - [921]
 

Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Kerrisone
No, only to a few people like you it is 'sacred' to CCP making more money is sacred, like the Cash Cow Eve is.

I hate to be blunt but it seems like you are getting really worked up to have CCP make up a lie to explain leaving your pod everytime, how about a new technology that removes all 'nasty' aspects of decanting? Or your pod auto ejects from the ship for security/safety reasons and machines remove/dress you which is why you don't notice anything until after you are dressed/out of your pod? All we need now is some CCP employee to write it up in a new chronicle/etc then it will all be okay.

Let me summarize for you what you actually said:
"I don't care about this, so neither should you."
Shove off. Immersion is important to some of us and Incarna as presented now is immersion breaking, and no, there is no way to justify getting out of your ship just to dock and get ammo unless suddenly the process of getting into a pod AND getting a pod into a ship is suddenly such a trivial task that it makes actually being a capsuleer less impressive and important.


When you want to spin what someone else said don't say you are summarizing what they said, leave it at 'summary' or a 'tldr'.

I explained how CCP doesn't care, look at the facts, what they DID and what they are planning to DO. Then tell me they care, tell me the lore is important to them. I care about how it makes no sense and how stupid their decision is to implement a process that goes against everything we've come to know about the game/world WE inhabit.

Try reading what I wrote again or anything I've said about this because I don't agree with what they are doing. BUT I also Don't think the people who are begging, and some people have been and ARE begging to be told it will all be alright. If all it takes for you or someone else to be 'happy' with the BS changes is someone at CCP making up a new story to justify it then you should 'shove off'.


Senlia Hucel-Ge
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:24:00 - [922]
 

Resubed

Asyrdin Harate
Aura of Darkness
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:24:00 - [923]
 

There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.

We all know plans can change...i mean how often have we changed our skill plan. CCP you still haven't said you won't do it just that you have no plans for it right now, but how about tommorow?

N'oah
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:25:00 - [924]
 

So what happened to the demand for more focus on developing eve instead of their new titles? Did you really travel to iceland and you didnt bring up that question?

Noran Ferah
Red Sky Morning
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:25:00 - [925]
 

"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."


Unless, of course, you use your investment of money to buy a 100M sp character on the character bazaar.

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:27:00 - [926]
 

Originally by: Asyrdin Harate
There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.

We all know plans can change...i mean how often have we changed our skill plan. CCP you still haven't said you won't do it just that you have no plans for it right now, but how about tommorow?


CCP also said "there are no plans to change plans", which addresses your comment but we didn't put it in the statements because at some point it just becomes ridiculous.
If you are not willing to believe them, you won't believe them no matter what they say.

Stormchyld
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:28:00 - [927]
 

Edited by: Stormchyld on 03/07/2011 11:42:59
Edited by: Stormchyld on 03/07/2011 11:33:26
Originally by: Jeff Severasse
Just like CCP stated they are watching what we do and not what we say...

CCP now, more then ever probably, we are going to be watching what you do now that we have seen what you have to say.

PLEASE dont F*** up! I LOVE THIS GAME!!!!!


.... +1 .. as I said in an earlier reply I think this is ok for now anyway. I just don't think that players can do much more atm. We've made our displeasure and discontent with Incarna known to CCP and there is much more that CCP should do to improve performance imo. Yes I understand they will be addressing that and I think that's great. I just don't have much confidence that they'll fix all of the issues. CCP has an attitude.. as a dev posted in a previous blog, where they don't think that polished (fixed iow's) content increases sales.... which is pretty pathetic imo... that basically says: "no, we arn't going to fix the game.. not completely anyway as there is no financial incentive to do so." I have no intention whatsoever to going back to using a single account to play this game.

...They have also paid a big price as far as the bad press about all of this but there is a point when I just need to wait and see what they do... not what they say.... as Jeff Severasse put it.

El Puerco
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:43:00 - [928]
 

I aprove.

Jamina Galandel
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:44:00 - [929]
 

Edited by: Jamina Galandel on 03/07/2011 11:44:49
"[...] CCP now, more then ever probably, we are going to be watching what you do now that we have seen what you have to say.[...]"

+1

Lucia Ferragano
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:46:00 - [930]
 

Originally by: Ankh
Generally satisfied, thanks to those who have clearly worked hard to get this far. I'd like clarification on a couple of points:

(1) The statement that "CCP has no plans to introduce 'Gold Ammo' or 'Gold ships' in the Aurum store" needs to be stronger imho. I'd like to see something like: "EVE will NEVER have pay-to-win options in any shape or format".

More importantly:

(2) Will CCP will continue to invest in the development of EVE as a unique and compelling product in its own right? This did not seem to be covered in the statement or vid. My perception remains that EVE development is currently focused around it being a platform for the introduction of new content supporting the develoment of other future products. A statement that "CCP has long term plans for EVE and its continued development as a unique core product within its future portfolio" will be most welcome.

Confirmation of these, and I'll be a happy bunny.

Ankh.
Internet spaceship pilot in New Eden since May 2003.

+1


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