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Taipan Leviathan
Dark Star Confederation
The Ancients.
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:48:00 - [691]
 

Resubbing.

(not that I unsubbed but you get the point)

Garekell
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:50:00 - [692]
 

Originally by: Youli Kepain
Edited by: Youli Kepain on 02/07/2011 22:24:35
Originally by: Chrysanthemum Korik
Originally by: Youli Kepain
Quote:
It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.


Thank you! Was that really so hard to say?
Now I can resub again and enjoy Internet Spaceships without fear.


You realize they can make a new plan tomorrow that sells sp, isk and ships in the store for cash and the above statement is still true? What we wanted them to say and is apparently too hard for them to say is to commit as they have previously to not selling non-vanity items in the future. They have not committed to that yet.

Originally by: Dalketh
STUPIDEST THING SAID EVER. (Sorry poster but it is)

No it's not, and I'll tell you why.
It was shown that the mere possibility of selling non-vanity items released a ****storm and I think CCP understands now that if they should change their plan of not having a non-vanity-item-plan would release the biggest f***king ****hurricane in the history of the internet. So for the forseeable future we are safe from that.
If that should change in let's say 1-2 years, unsubbing is always an option. Wink


Thanks... but you manipulated my quote so it appears I am responding to someone I wasn't... for some reason.

I was responding to a person who said:

Thank you! Was that really so hard to say?
Now I can resub again and enjoy Internet Spaceships without fear.


The 'without fear' was what I was calling stupid. Please be more careful when you cut/paste/manipulate people's posts.

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:51:00 - [693]
 

Not good enough for me sorry.

CCP still sux, the best we can do is something similar to the old hangar at a soon™ date. The Hilmar email wasn't addressed & the guarantee about MT is not good enough or believable.

i admit probably nothing short of rolling back the patch to pre-incarna would have satisfied me, but I feel my opinion should be voiced here anyway.

Thanks for at least making the effort CCP & CSM but too little too late imo.

My 2 subs stay cancelled Evil or Very Mad

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:52:00 - [694]
 

Edited by: Meissa Anunthiel on 02/07/2011 23:02:58
Edited by: Meissa Anunthiel on 02/07/2011 22:56:01
Originally by: Renan Ruivo

Ok.

During the CSM meeting, have you guys at any point inquired CCP about how immersion breaking the current incarnation of incarna (no pun intended) is?! And sorry if the following question sounds offensive.. but.. Does the CSM even cares about immersion?

Thank You.


Yes. We have made the case that getting out of your pod is, as per the lore, supposed to be a traumatic experience.

From a psychology point of view, CCP is however right that it is easier for a human being to identify with a space dolly than with an egg of metal or a spaceship.

We also argued that forcing people into an avatar they didn't really chose can break immersion (verokhior females for instance).

For that element we argued for the ability to be able to change bloodline would be a great addition. Plans for this are being evaluated (no promises, but it has been voiced).

I may possibly not address the specific immersion you are referring to, since I don't know your background in this regard, but the two above cover the majority in terms of immersion-breaking arguments. If I forgot something and you point it out to me I will answer whether, yes or no, we talked about it and whether we got an answer.

Edit: "I'm in a fight, I dock to reload ammo/change a module/whatever, and immediately undock. Getting out of your pod makes no sense" argument. Yes, we voiced that concern as well. However I don't think we got a clear answer to that one (to be honest, I wasn't the one making that specific argument and it happened on the sidelines during a tense moment when the majority of the energy was spent on the rest of the issue. One of my fellow delegates will have to answer it).

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:52:00 - [695]
 

Edited by: Renan Ruivo on 02/07/2011 22:56:44
Edited by: Renan Ruivo on 02/07/2011 22:54:12
Oops, posted at the same time as you.. One sec..

Edit:

Thanks for the reply, you really did went back and read everything and that's very commendable. I am positively shocked Smile


Now about my perception of immersion, and the issue behind my beef with it. (I edited that post):

Couldn't care less about spinning my ship tbqh.

Only care about how is someone involved on a battle-situation supposed to do something that should take HOURS just because he needed to stock up on Cap Boosters. (That is: Docking, leaving ship with pod, leaving pod naked on a publicly-seen catwalk, throwing up pod goo, shaking up nausea, walking to quarters, dressing up, walking to balcony, opening ship cargobay, loading cap boosters, walking back to quarters, undressing, walking to pod naked on a publicly-seen catwalk, entering pod, filling pod with goo, entering ship with pod, undocking)

Moon Shadowfall
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:55:00 - [696]
 

Meissa,

I was new on the day of the Incarna expansion. I had tried the trial a couple years before but didn't stick around.

I kept the CQ on for a couple of days and it was helpful. Immersive? I dunno. Two years ago I felt immersed in my ships. Once I figured out the basics however, it became something I didn't really prefer. I went to the old UI setup and haven't renabled the CQ yet.

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Renan Ruivo

Ok.

During the CSM meeting, have you guys at any point inquired CCP about how immersion breaking the current incarnation of incarna (no pun intended) is?! And sorry if the following question sounds offensive.. but.. Does the CSM even cares about immersion?

Thank You.


Yes. We have made the case that getting out of your pod is, as per the lore, supposed to be a traumatic experience.

From a psychology point of view, CCP is however right that it is easier for a human being to identify with a space dolly than with an egg of metal or a spaceship.

We also argued that forcing people into an avatar they didn't really chose can break immersion (verokhior females for instance).

For that element we argued for the ability to be able to change bloodline would be a great addition. Plans for this are being evaluated (no promises, but it has been voiced).

I may possibly not address the specific immersion you are referring to, since I don't know your background in this regard, but the two above cover the majority in terms of immersion-breaking arguments. If I forgot something and you point it out to me I will answer whether, yes or no, we talked about it and whether we got an answer.

Celedraug
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:56:00 - [697]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
As far as I know they do not plan to accept player-generated textures or models. I don't recall them going ballistic when we discussed that possibility in the past, but the answer has so far be no and I don't expect it to change.

[/quote



No sure if we are on the same point here - not player generated skins or models but CCP generated. I was meaning will they sell in the store the same ship but looking different as one we would have build ourselves or brought from another player. This is a vanity item but it impacts the player economy.

Telion Rethson
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:58:00 - [698]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
My question is "what do you want"?
If your answer is:
- "don't want InCarna". I can't give you that. For better or worse, InCarna and Eve are now one and the same.
- "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for philosophical reasons [ie, I play 'flying in space', not 'space dollies]", see point above.
- "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for performance reason". We got a compromise solution (and a bit extra)
- "I want my hangar functionality where I spin my ship", we got you that


I think what several people are saying is that the lore of Eve makes being forced into getting out of your ship every time you dock, for whatever reason, ridiculous. An example:

I buy a cheap item three jumps from where I am. I fly to the relevant station. The one and only reason I am there is to pick up this one item. Can I simply ask for the item to be loaded into my cargo bay, then depart? No. I cannot. I have to separate my pod from my ship, get it to the gantry, drain it of goo, disconnect the umbilicals, open the pod, stumble out, clean the goo from my body, get dressed, THEN order the item loaded into my cargo bay. Once I've done that, I turn right around, get undressed, step back into my pod, close it, connect the umbilicals, refill it with goo, rejoin pod to ship, then depart.

Atreus Venom
Gallente
New Eden Hitmen
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:59:00 - [699]
 

Originally by: Renan Ruivo
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
If your answer is:
- "don't want InCarna". I can't give you that. For better or worse, InCarna and Eve are now one and the same.
- "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for philosophical reasons [ie, I play 'flying in space', not 'space dollies]", see point above.


You may not have read my post above, and that's ok (really, lol). But if you can.. at your discretion..

Here's my input:

- "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for immersion-breaking reason [ie, see-my-post].


I like space ships and i like space dollies. What i don't like, is that they DON'T quite work together to suspend my disbelief. Quite the opposite in fact.

If i didn't cared about immersion while playing a video-game, i wouldn't be playing a video-game in the first place.


yeah to kinda add a little to what he is saying.. for the sole purpose of immersion there shouldnt be a sudden jump out of the ship... when i dock to grab more ammo should i really have to get out of my ship? if i wanted to go and lay down on the bed thats in there that would be great... and you could incorporate sleep in the game too.. like sleeping will increase learning speed by .2%... give us a reason to leave our ships.. instead of forcing us to... that would make alot of players happy

Garekell
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:59:00 - [700]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

However I also think CCP wants integration between the 2 gameplays to be of tantamount importance. I disagree with that choice but respect the decisions. My condition for them to get their way in this regard is that I have similar performance footprint I had before.

Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere. The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality.


Meissa I respect you but you are falling into mittens trap of assuming you know best and you opinion is what matters most.

"Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere."

We aren't resisting for the sake of resisting... we are 'resisting' because we don't want it.

"The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality"...

Part of it, but you forget not wanting it.

More and more you sound like you are saying 'listen to me I am right and you are wrong so shut up.' Sad

Madcow
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:01:00 - [701]
 

Originally by: Celedraug
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
As far as I know they do not plan to accept player-generated textures or models. I don't recall them going ballistic when we discussed that possibility in the past, but the answer has so far be no and I don't expect it to change.

[/quote



No sure if we are on the same point here - not player generated skins or models but CCP generated. I was meaning will they sell in the store the same ship but looking different as one we would have build ourselves or brought from another player. This is a vanity item but it impacts the player economy.


CCP said before they will wait before implementing it till you can either trade the ship in for new one or add blueprints to the aura market.

Amitious Turkey
Gallente
TarNec
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:01:00 - [702]
 

Originally by: CCCP Supersmug
do you often disagree with serial killing but then debate its merits?


I do. It stimulates the...brain.Twisted Evil

DRACOincarnation
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:01:00 - [703]
 

Quote:
"It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."


That concludes the topic regarding to the recent fuzz in my humble eyes! Now continue to develop our game CCP, and to the same good job you've done so far (except for maybe unfortunate P/R)! :-)



Solosky
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:02:00 - [704]
 

As I understood - message is "we were communicating wrongly - now we'll promise to communicate better but no t3 frigates, no t3 battleships, no clothing drop from NPCs or LP stores - NOTHING interesting ahead - just pale and poorly designed items in NeX store which make their owners target for stalkers and griefers."

Boring. Subscriptions still cancelled.

P.S. Watch PLEX prices dropping. Probably I'm not only one who doesn't interesting in them.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:03:00 - [705]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
My question is "what do you want"?
If your answer is:
- "don't want InCarna". I can't give you that. For better or worse, InCarna and Eve are now one and the same.
- "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for philosophical reasons [ie, I play 'flying in space', not 'space dollies]", see point above.
- "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for performance reason". We got a compromise solution (and a bit extra)
- "I want my hangar functionality where I spin my ship", we got you that
I'll repeat myself.

I like Incarna, I like the idea of walking in stations. I just don't want it every time I dock.
You seem to keep forgetting the main sentence in the blog and why I believe it to be disingenuous.

and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance.

You didn't get us anything, we ended up with no choice as we have now.

Celedraug
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:03:00 - [706]
 

Originally by: Madcow
Originally by: Celedraug
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
As far as I know they do not plan to accept player-generated textures or models. I don't recall them going ballistic when we discussed that possibility in the past, but the answer has so far be no and I don't expect it to change.

[/quote



No sure if we are on the same point here - not player generated skins or models but CCP generated. I was meaning will they sell in the store the same ship but looking different as one we would have build ourselves or brought from another player. This is a vanity item but it impacts the player economy.


CCP said before they will wait before implementing it till you can either trade the ship in for new one or add blueprints to the aura market.


Good to know - thanks

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:04:00 - [707]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
.........

If I forgot something and you point it out to me I will answer whether, yes or no, we talked about it and whether we got an answer.


For me the immersion breaking aspect is the time and the setting. To get out of the pod requires it be drained, I be washed dried and then change into clothes. Somehow that is all happening in a few seconds with no facilities for washing or dressing.

CCP could come up with a new story to explain whats happening. For example, CCP could say we all got new pods that do the draining, cleaning, drying and clothing automatically in the few seconds between when we see "docking request accepted" and the avatar appears. They could reinforce this by moving the pod up to the balcony and have the avatar standing just at its doors.

But so far CCP has let this issue lay there and fester.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:06:00 - [708]
 

Originally by: AJ Falconi

(I can live with PLEX as an alternative to black-market ISK sales. What I can't stand is the idea that buying and selling characters is allowed. How is this not a EULA violation? If I had to start a new character with no skills, so should everyone else.)



It's not so much the toon's skills that are concerning to most people (srsly, you could be given 100m SP, and still lose to a toon who earned their 10m SP), but rather the fact that gold ammo/ships completely eradicate the player market/economy

Originally by: AJ Falconi

As a new player, while I am enjoying the game for now, I do worry about my ability to compete with players who have many more years of skill-points invested, and who may have advantages that I can never get. For example, I hate the idea that there are high-end blueprints that I can never have simply because a limited supply was distributed by lottery long before I started playing. A new character should have every opportunity to succeed that a player who began when EVE first released (8 years ago?).


This is by no means true. You're thinking too much along the "rollercoaster" RPG style of gaming...

On SP -- yes, you might be 30 or 50 or 100 million "short" on another player's overall total, but most of the skill trees have 20ish million SP total. What this means is that you can quickly "catch up" in a particular field.

To illustrate this: I grabbed me a 50k SP newb non-minmatar alt, and set a training plan to get into a rifter. To get into the ship, and have all the certificates was something like 5 or 6 days. to get all of those skills to level 4 was an additional 30 days. so, 30-35 days and you're in the top 80% of rifter pilots (well, toon skills anyway). To get cruisers to the same level was another week or two...

On T2 BPOs -- yes you are correct that you are unable to purchase T2 BPOs from NPCs, but don't let that get you down. With enough ISK, you can buy your own from another player... or with the right skills, you can invent copies. By no means does owning one of these BPOs mean you have an ISK printing machine.

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:07:00 - [709]
 

Not bad, but I'm a little concerned regarding some of the phraseology used. Keep it simple- you're not being paid by the word & it also helps non-native speakers. "Game breaking" and "grey areas" are two instances that stand out.

I'll see what happens over the next couple of months before making a final decision.

If people re-subbing do so with 1 month payment plans rather than 3/6/12month ones, then CCP will notice. The longer term subs show players' confidence in the game's future, and that is what has taken a major blow recently.

Sandeman Reserve
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:07:00 - [710]
 

Too late.
CCP had the opportunity to keep my business, and they blew it. My accounts have already been cancelled, and they'll stay cancelled.

I'm enjoying Perpetuum Online too much at the moment, so that's where my money's staying - and I daresay there are more than a few others who don't trust CCP enough to switch back too.

I'd encourage all subscribers to think hard about the direction CCP is taking, and consider whether they can really be bothered with another one of these blowouts a few months or a year down the track when CCP realises just what a financial hole it is in and brings in game-changing MT anyway to keep their business afloat.

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:07:00 - [711]
 

Originally by: Celedraug
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
As far as I know they do not plan to accept player-generated textures or models. I don't recall them going ballistic when we discussed that possibility in the past, but the answer has so far be no and I don't expect it to change.
[/quote



No sure if we are on the same point here - not player generated skins or models but CCP generated. I was meaning will they sell in the store the same ship but looking different as one we would have build ourselves or brought from another player. This is a vanity item but it impacts the player economy.


We discussed ships of similar stats to another but with a different model (ie, having a hurricane that has spikes to take a ridiculous example). The answer is that the amount of time it takes for the art department to produce new ship models renders this scenario unlikely. However the "economy" aspect has been made clear in this that any change in paint job/model needs to take in an existing ship as a source as well so as not to disrupt the economy.

Angeliq
Minmatar
Soimii Patriei
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:07:00 - [712]
 

I don't see the part where CCP says "We will NEVER EVER introduce items beyond vanity ones in EVE Online through the NEX Store", but I see the part where they say "There are no plans, and have been no plans" which basically means: "who knows what the future will bring". I remember when CCP told us that there were no plans for a cash shop...
I also see the part where they say "game breaking items or enhancements", well... what about game affecting items or enhancements?
AAAAND my favorite part "The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time." So... the investment of money (through NEX Store) should give you a FAIR ADVANTAGE?? Define fair advantage!

So... CCP is telling us the exact same thing they told us before the CSM meeting but somehow we feel and think different about it now. We buy it and we'r happy "ship spinnin" is coming back.

I'm so proud of this community, gotto be the smartest bunch of ppl ever :)

Slightly Green
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:10:00 - [713]
 

Edited by: Slightly Green on 02/07/2011 23:10:34
This account is still canceled too.
Internet robots vs internet spaceships - robots have just won.
http://www.perpetuum-online.com/ - 15 day free trial.

Moon Shadowfall
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:11:00 - [714]
 

Originally by: Angeliq
I don't see the part where CCP says "We will NEVER EVER introduce items beyond vanity ones in EVE Online through the NEX Store", but I see the part where they say "There are no plans, and have been no plans" which basically means: "who knows what the future will bring". I remember when CCP told us that there were no plans for a cash shop...
I also see the part where they say "game breaking items or enhancements", well... what about game affecting items or enhancements?
AAAAND my favorite part "The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time." So... the investment of money (through NEX Store) should give you a FAIR ADVANTAGE?? Define fair advantage!

So... CCP is telling us the exact same thing they told us before the CSM meeting but somehow we feel and think different about it now. We buy it and we'r happy "ship spinnin" is coming back.

I'm so proud of this community, gotto be the smartest bunch of ppl ever :)


If you can't stomach it, then it's perhaps time to leave? If you can't play a game and have it make you happy, then by all means find one that can. You won't be getting the statement you want because, it's one pretty much ANY MMO cannot make. As games age and subscription money fades, then options like this, HOWEVER UNPALATABLE, have to remain open.

I think the message has been sent by the current playerbase that this will NOT be tolerated...they'd be fools not to listen to this.

RayBacca Kothar
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:11:00 - [715]
 

I'm pretty good with the statement. However, this part still concerns me:

"The Leaked Hilmar Global Email: We were appalled by the leaked Hilmar email and the atrocious and out-of-touch messaging it contained. We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it."

Is there anymore on this?

Doctor Garamond Trebuchet
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:12:00 - [716]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Edited by: Meissa Anunthiel on 02/07/2011 22:56:01
Originally by: Renan Ruivo

Ok.

During the CSM meeting, have you guys at any point inquired CCP about how immersion breaking the current incarnation of incarna (no pun intended) is?! And sorry if the following question sounds offensive.. but.. Does the CSM even cares about immersion?

Thank You.


Yes. We have made the case that getting out of your pod is, as per the lore, supposed to be a traumatic experience.

From a psychology point of view, CCP is however right that it is easier for a human being to identify with a space dolly than with an egg of metal or a spaceship.

We also argued that forcing people into an avatar they didn't really chose can break immersion (verokhior females for instance).

For that element we argued for the ability to be able to change bloodline would be a great addition. Plans for this are being evaluated (no promises, but it has been voiced).

I may possibly not address the specific immersion you are referring to, since I don't know your background in this regard, but the two above cover the majority in terms of immersion-breaking arguments. If I forgot something and you point it out to me I will answer whether, yes or no, we talked about it and whether we got an answer.

PS: to Renan Ruivo who posts right after me. Immersion is not necessarily a requisite for video game. See chess, see angry bird, see Lemmings (I'm not a lemming :p)


Thank god someone on the CSM gives a frak about the RPer. I think I just died and went to heaven IRL.

I was listening to eve radio last night with the Massively.com editor and Seleene and another CSM and funky bacon and the outright mockery of the RP/Immersion discussion (listen yourself in the podcast, http://eve-radio.com was really bummin' me out. Hot damn I am happy you are on the CSM. Do you tweet in #tweetfleet?

edith prickley
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:12:00 - [717]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Heavenly Blues

I guess you missed the post where CCP said they have no plans for MT whatsoever. Nothing they say has any value. They are spliting hairs in a Bill Clinton esque fasion. What is is?


Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new.



This sounds shifty. Those statements have been repeated dozens of times since they were originally made, and formed the basis of many pages of discussion on the forums. The user community clearly had confidence in them, and they lie at the heart of the current feeling of betrayal. Why wasn't the fact that these commitments were completely empty clarified earlier?

Anyhow, CCP should keep this useful cop-out in mind, I'm sure it will come in handy in the future as well.

Ispia Jaydrath
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:12:00 - [718]
 

Originally by: Kane Molou
What I want to know is what makes the CSM better then the rest of us? What makes them soooo damned special that they get access to information and the like we aren't allowed.........


oh that's right.....


Nothing.

...


Actually it's because we voted for them to represent us.

Hope this helps~~

Moon Shadowfall
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:15:00 - [719]
 

Originally by: Ispia Jaydrath
Originally by: Kane Molou
What I want to know is what makes the CSM better then the rest of us? What makes them soooo damned special that they get access to information and the like we aren't allowed.........


oh that's right.....


Nothing.

...


Actually it's because we voted for them to represent us.

Hope this helps~~



Sometimes...it hurts...so much. :P

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:15:00 - [720]
 

Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

However I also think CCP wants integration between the 2 gameplays to be of tantamount importance. I disagree with that choice but respect the decisions. My condition for them to get their way in this regard is that I have similar performance footprint I had before.

Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere. The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality.


Meissa I respect you but you are falling into mittens trap of assuming you know best and you opinion is what matters most.

"Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere."

We aren't resisting for the sake of resisting... we are 'resisting' because we don't want it.

"The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality"...

Part of it, but you forget not wanting it.

More and more you sound like you are saying 'listen to me I am right and you are wrong so shut up.' Sad


I understand and appreciate what you are saying. But there are fights we will not win.
I don't care about InCarna, I didn't ask for InCarna, I didn't want InCarna. This should be clear. I made that stance clear as far back as CSM 3 (check the video of the CCP panel during fanfest 2009 on youtube, during the Q&A I asked exactly that).

Considering that keeping on arguing "I don't want InCarna" is a battle fought (and lost) a while ago, we have to make sure it is not disruptive to what we actually want. And if possible turn it into something we actually can make use of. Considering that we got it, we go with what our reasons for not wanting it in the first place are.

I don't believe I am complacent, misleading or "I know better now shut up here" here. It's not about being right in this instance, it's about being sensible with regards to what one can achieve. Clamoring "delete incarna!" will serve no purpose. Saying "I don't want to see 'my' avatar EVER" serves as little purpose. CCP has decided that they consider InCarna to be a part of Eve, the sensible stance from then on is to make sure it does not disrupt those who wanted nothing to do with it in the first place, and that's what I've been busy doing.

If, in having that stance, I do not represent your view I am kinda sorry, but in my personal opinion that is a pointless one to keep having (though the underlying reasons are still as valid)


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