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Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:00:00 - [631]
 

Originally by: Esrevid Nekkeg
My machine exceeds the present recommended system configuration on every point except for the fact that I have a NVIDIA Gforce GT430 instead of a GTX460 in my PC. And it can not run to clients without seriously overheating and in general slowing down to an unacceptable level. And having read several posts regarding that or similar hardware issues, I know I'm not the only one.

Someone from CCP should answer this in more detail, but we spent some time discussing issues with various cards, and CCP is aware of many of these issues. They are working hard on them.

Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:01:00 - [632]
 

Its a start and I hope that CCP really mean it this time. 5 years of playing and this isn't the EVE that dragged me in all those years ago.

PLEASE CCP get this next expansion right, I don't care if you have to delay it 3 months to get it right but don't release another Incarna, I don't think you can afford another disaster like this.

I will stick around for now, but I will hinge my final move on what is to come this winter.

Heavenly Blues
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:02:00 - [633]
 

Originally by: CCP Shadow
Edited by: CCP Shadow on 24/06/2010 17:30:40
We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE.

Originally by: CCP Shadow
No. There are no microtransaction plans, whatsoever. I wrote "in this case" because this extended downtime was an unusual situation. It's not every day we relocate our servers to a new facility.

Originally by: CCP Shadow
Are you trolling me bro? Cool

Our business model isn't changing, you all have nothing to be concerned about.


So a year ago you weren't planing on Micro Transactions. Today you aren't planning on non-vanity Micro Transactions. Interesting indeed.



Slaghead
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:03:00 - [634]
 

I appreciate the CSM's coming in here to supplement the blog messages. Is there any indication that CCP will keep at least you guys informed on upcoming changes to their 'plans'? I'd really hate to go through this again in another year when they decide to launch their non-vanity MT plan.

John Zorg
Caldari
The Damned Legion
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:06:00 - [635]
 

Edited by: John Zorg on 02/07/2011 22:06:28
I am sure that there will be no response to this. But couldn't the GTC(PLEX) system be seen as a "Gold Ammo" system. If I have $1 000,000 and I play EVE Online I am able to purchase all the ISK I want with real money. No time is invested into that.

You say so nicely in your blog and on the youtube video that CCP will _NEVER_ have a pay to win feature in EVE-Online but the GTC(PLEX) system is exactly that...

A comment from CCP would be appreciated...

JZ

Lemming Lass
Minmatar
Lemmings Online
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:06:00 - [636]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Daxel Magmalloy
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Yes, CCP still wants to dock straight to Incarna. Yes, we all think that's a mistake, and we'll keep on trying to convince them they are wrong.

So they didn't listen then.

Oh, they listened all right. But they don't agree. CSM can't force CCP to do anything, we can only try to persuade.



Thank you very much for this response. It removes the need to think about this any more.

Now canceling my 3 remaining accounts.

Decant to change ammo? If CCP doesn't wise up to how mind-boggling stupid that is, I shudder to think what else might be shoved down our throat later on. Luckily this account doesn't expire until October, so I'll keep an eye on things until then and hope for the best.

Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:07:00 - [637]
 

Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Edited by: Sarina Berghil on 02/07/2011 21:38:53
A comment on Trebor's blog
http://treborofthecsm.blogspot.com/2011/07/potter-stuart-and-purchase-of-insurance.html

Quote:

Imagine for a moment that instead of making this a free remap, CCP had decided that it should have a cost. Consider the following three options:

A) You can remap once per year at a cost of 400 million ISK.

B) You can remap once per year at a cost of a PLEX.

C) You can remap once per year at a cost of 3500 AURUM.


If you surveyed groups of players about the acceptability of these options (set aside the inevitable *****ing that "it should be free" for a moment), I believe that A would be acceptable to the most players, and C to the fewest, and the difference in acceptability would be significant.

Why? Because ISK represents player effort, while AURUM is tainted by its association with monocles.

Yet in reality, all these options are roughly equivalent. If you have 400 million ISK, you can buy a PLEX. If you have a PLEX, you can convert it to 3500 AURUM. And if you have 3500 AURUM, you can buy some clothes and sell them in the market for ISK.



B and C are exactly equivalent, but A is very different.

PLEX->Remap and Aurum->Remap offers a fixed exchange rate.

PLEX->ISK->Remap does not because the PLEX->ISK exchange is based on the player market. The original PLEX system was very gentle on the sandbox environment because it was kept in check by demand. Aurum is not kept in check the same way and can therefore potentially have a much larger effect.

As another poster mentioned the mere existance of the NeX puts extra demand on PLEX, thus giving people a better exchange rate converting PLEX->ISK, but a worse rate converting ISK->gametime.
So indirectly every item sold in the NeX buffs existing P2W options using PLEX.


The price has been slowly rising on PLEX for years, it has only ballooned as of resent. The price will most likely go up for various other reasons as well as the one you mentioned. The one factor I see, as more an more people come into the game, aka new players, there should be an increase in the sale of GTCs an into PLEX, which should lower the price of PLEX because the market is getting fed more. It could also be possible that PLEX will skyrocket, Hello Kitty on a pink drake, I want one just for the lulz. Although, I am not too sure I would say people will buy the PLEXes from ingame. Personally, if I was serious about the pink drake, an needed the AUR, I would whip out my credit card, not spend my isk.

Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:08:00 - [638]
 

Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 02/07/2011 22:13:18

Did the CSM explain clearly that if they had been straight up to us about wanting to use Incarna as a development platform (which it is) and the need to get huge amounts of data on its every aspect for WoD development, we would have gone, yeah, lets do it, push the envelope. If they had said we need more revenue for development of Carbon which will benefit eve, can we sell you cosmetic bling via MT using Plex as a sink in Incarna, it will also help to get the bugs out of WoD, we would have said, yeah, more power to you.

That is why im upset and still am, eve built CCP it deserves some respect.




Dun Bar
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:08:00 - [639]
 

Woot WootVery Happy

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:08:00 - [640]
 

"It is CCPs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."


was that so hard?

oddly I feel like it really was. Without the visit of the CSM to iceland and roits I really don't think CCP was ready to say no forever. And who can blame them now that they have said it, during a time when more ears are on them than normal, they can never break this statement without huge back lash.


While if they never say anything 100% set in stone, they had the OPTION to expand, and what company doesn't want room to expand. However at least in my eyes, I will think about resubbing when incrana has 4 CQs, and that door is repalced with the hanger view.


However that's much better than what I felt 4 days agos ago with was I would never come back ever.

so thanks CSM and thanks CCP.

Heavenly Blues
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:10:00 - [641]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
"It is CCPs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."


was that so hard?

oddly I feel like it really was. Without the visit of the CSM to iceland and roits I really don't think CCP was ready to say no forever. And who can blame them now that they have said it, during a time when more ears are on them than normal, they can never break this statement without huge back lash.


While if they never say anything 100% set in stone, they had the OPTION to expand, and what company doesn't want room to expand. However at least in my eyes, I will think about resubbing when incrana has 4 CQs, and that door is repalced with the hanger view.


However that's much better than what I felt 4 days agos ago with was I would never come back ever.

so thanks CSM and thanks CCP.


I guess you missed the post where CCP said they have no plans for MT whatsoever. Nothing they say has any value. They are spliting hairs in a Bill Clinton esque fasion. What is is?

Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:12:00 - [642]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

Originally by: Ra Vhim
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

(words)


(more words)

(even more words)


Thanks for the answer. To have the goal to make it seamless is something I can understand. IMO it can easily be an option in the esc menue that you either dock to Incarna or dock hangar and then can leave the pod if you like. Either way, hopefully they let the new hangar stay or make Incarna run so smooth that I do not care if it is there or not.

I have always been in the "I don't care about Incarna as long as it's optional" ^^

Quote:

Edit: and the reason the statements do not cover every edge-case is because we have to summarize 2 days of hectic discussion about all those cases into a few paragraphs, we feel the statement we made covers the points made by the players and addresses them. And yes, your dissection of every word and wriggle room and grey area and tiny detail that wasn't mentionned in the statement has been discussed and addressed.



Umm.. I guess that was a general remark to the whole thread since I haven't commented grey areas nor dissected any words at all.

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:13:00 - [643]
 

Originally by: Slaghead
I appreciate the CSM's coming in here to supplement the blog messages. Is there any indication that CCP will keep at least you guys informed on upcoming changes to their 'plans'? I'd really hate to go through this again in another year when they decide to launch their non-vanity MT plan.


Yes, but there is no plan to change the plan (we actually talked about that possibility) and any grey area or change or anything will be discussed.


Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:14:00 - [644]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
But no matter what, there will be ship-spinning -- it will be added to Incarna and you will be able to spin from the balcony.



I just want to chime in to say this is a point the playerbase and CSM are absolutely wrong on. Spinning ships from the balcony is immersion breaking and stupid. So I just sit there and make a ship I'm not in go in a circle? Previous "ship spinning" was actually camera spinning. But if the ship actually goes in a circle, that would be dumb and even more immersion breaking than leaving my pod every time I redock.

Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:14:00 - [645]
 

Originally by: Kueijin Legion
a creepy manlove video?




Laughed so hard I think I broke a rib.

Smoking Blunts
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:15:00 - [646]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Esrevid Nekkeg
My machine exceeds the present recommended system configuration on every point except for the fact that I have a NVIDIA Gforce GT430 instead of a GTX460 in my PC. And it can not run to clients without seriously overheating and in general slowing down to an unacceptable level. And having read several posts regarding that or similar hardware issues, I know I'm not the only one.

Someone from CCP should answer this in more detail, but we spent some time discussing issues with various cards, and CCP is aware of many of these issues. They are working hard on them.


i petitioned like they said, sent my dxdiag liek they said. they told me to bug report it. what am i ment to bug report incarna?
why dont they actually have technical support peopel working as petition handeling gm. with all the problems poeple are having with incarna, a team of them should be looking after peopels issues. the gm i spoke to didnt ahev a clue. plus there is a bug in teh petition system that eats half of teh text after you send it.. awesom job ccp

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:15:00 - [647]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Daxel Magmalloy
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Yes, CCP still wants to dock straight to Incarna. Yes, we all think that's a mistake, and we'll keep on trying to convince them they are wrong.

So they didn't listen then.

Oh, they listened all right. But they don't agree. CSM can't force CCP to do anything, we can only try to persuade.
So instead you gave us some 'make them feel good and bury the truth' blog and it'll all go away? Amirite?

Great stuff, at least you had our backs and were honest.

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:16:00 - [648]
 

Originally by: Heavenly Blues
Originally by: MotherMoon
"It is CCPs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."


was that so hard?

oddly I feel like it really was. Without the visit of the CSM to iceland and roits I really don't think CCP was ready to say no forever. And who can blame them now that they have said it, during a time when more ears are on them than normal, they can never break this statement without huge back lash.


While if they never say anything 100% set in stone, they had the OPTION to expand, and what company doesn't want room to expand. However at least in my eyes, I will think about resubbing when incrana has 4 CQs, and that door is repalced with the hanger view.


However that's much better than what I felt 4 days agos ago with was I would never come back ever.

so thanks CSM and thanks CCP.


I guess you missed the post where CCP said they have no plans for MT whatsoever. Nothing they say has any value. They are spliting hairs in a Bill Clinton esque fasion. What is is?


Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new.

The statements we get now come from CCP Zulu, Senior Producer for Eve Online, have been seen and commented on by CCP Hellmar, CEO, Several members of Game Design and Marketing were present during those discussions as well. The statement represents the views of the company. Period.

Torsten Hjaltland
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:20:00 - [649]
 

Looks like some good work has been done and some lessons learned. Bring on the Patches ESP the replacement of the brown door with my active ship. Thanks to all involved CCP and the CSM.

Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:21:00 - [650]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new.

The statements we get now come from CCP Zulu, Senior Producer for Eve Online, have been seen and commented on by CCP Hellmar, CEO, Several members of Game Design and Marketing were present during those discussions as well. The statement represents the views of the company. Period.


So that means that nigh everything in "Fearless" is true you know, apart from the one speculative discussion.


The Offerer
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:21:00 - [651]
 

Originally by: John Zorg
Edited by: John Zorg on 02/07/2011 22:06:28
I am sure that there will be no response to this. But couldn't the GTC(PLEX) system be seen as a "Gold Ammo" system. If I have $1 000,000 and I play EVE Online I am able to purchase all the ISK I want with real money. No time is invested into that.

You say so nicely in your blog and on the youtube video that CCP will _NEVER_ have a pay to win feature in EVE-Online but the GTC(PLEX) system is exactly that...

A comment from CCP would be appreciated...

JZ


Yes, you are in position to buy whatever you want by selling PLEX-es, but:
- you are giving game time to a player that need it to play;
- you are getting ISK that was created by that player through gameplay. By needing his ISK you've created content for that player - a need to get a bit more ISK to buy a PLEX.
- you will use that ISK to trade it for some items that other players produced. You've created content for them by having a need for those items and you've boosted the economy in the process (because as wee all know - more selling, healthier economy).

This system is nothing like "golden ammo". This system is good for the game.
----

Now, on the original topic of this thread.

This blog is what I've expected to see in order to stay in the game. In fact, I'm already in the process of resubscribing my industrial accounts (all 4 of them) in the next couple of days (most likely during the next week).

Thank you CCP for making this great game and for listening to your players.
Thank you CSM for flying to Iceland on such a short notice and representing our views.

Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:22:00 - [652]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

The statement represents the views of the company. Period.


I would imagine anyone who wants a paycheck an a job next week will agree to any sort of representation the company insists they make, I would.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:22:00 - [653]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
The time to complaining "I don't want InCarna" has come and passed, what now matters is the impact for us who care less about the integration between the two.
I still think you're trolling.

I and many others actually really look forward to walking in stations. We simply want to choose when we disembark. Could it be more clear?

Bellator Militaris
Caldari
Freelancers Coalition
Joined Brotherhood
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:22:00 - [654]
 

Thank you to the members of the CSM for standing up for the players of EVE. Its really simple: " Keep giving the players of EVE what they desire" Listen to your players....and you CCP will have them for a very long time. Without the Pilots EVE is an empty Space. Bellator Militaris (Player Born Oct. 2006) Very Happy

Youli Kepain
Scapegoats
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:24:00 - [655]
 

Edited by: Youli Kepain on 02/07/2011 22:24:35
Originally by: Chrysanthemum Korik
Originally by: Youli Kepain
Quote:
It is CCPs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.


Thank you! Was that really so hard to say?
Now I can resub again and enjoy Internet Spaceships without fear.


You realize they can make a new plan tomorrow that sells sp, isk and ships in the store for cash and the above statement is still true? What we wanted them to say and is apparently too hard for them to say is to commit as they have previously to not selling non-vanity items in the future. They have not committed to that yet.

Originally by: Dalketh
STUPIDEST THING SAID EVER. (Sorry poster but it is)

No it's not, and I'll tell you why.
It was shown that the mere possibility of selling non-vanity items released a ****storm and I think CCP understands now that if they should change their plan of not having a non-vanity-item-plan would release the biggest f***king ****hurricane in the history of the internet. So for the forseeable future we are safe from that.
If that should change in let's say 1-2 years, unsubbing is always an option. Wink

Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:24:00 - [656]
 

Originally by: Arnar Hrafn Gylfason
It is CCPs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.


Why so many qualifiers? Please bare in mind that you have created a very cynical playerbase with this game with all the scams etc. You have also previosly stated no plans for microtransactions at all, yet here we now have microtransactions.

Let me break this down into chunks:

"There are no plans, and have been no plans"

No plans to do something is not a commitment to not do that thing. This statement says nothing of possible future plans and leaves the door wide open. Just like "We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE." (from CCP Shadow in the above link)

"game breaking items or enhancements"

This says that items or enhancements can be added so long as they are not game breaking. How exactly do you define "game breaking"? It's a very subjective term. Apparently nullsec anomolies and jump bridges were game breaking... "No in game advantage bought by money rather than time" goes some way to solidify this however.

"in the NeX store"

So if game breaking items or enhancements are sold in the new IWE (I Win EVE) Store, this statement will still be true because those items were not sold in the NeX store.

So to summarise, there is a huge amount of room for the addition of gold ammo type items via microtransactions based on the CCP statements. I hope the assurances given to the CSM were more concrete than the statements given here.

Heavenly Blues
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:24:00 - [657]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Heavenly Blues
Originally by: MotherMoon
"It is CCPs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."


was that so hard?

oddly I feel like it really was. Without the visit of the CSM to iceland and roits I really don't think CCP was ready to say no forever. And who can blame them now that they have said it, during a time when more ears are on them than normal, they can never break this statement without huge back lash.


While if they never say anything 100% set in stone, they had the OPTION to expand, and what company doesn't want room to expand. However at least in my eyes, I will think about resubbing when incrana has 4 CQs, and that door is repalced with the hanger view.


However that's much better than what I felt 4 days agos ago with was I would never come back ever.

so thanks CSM and thanks CCP.


I guess you missed the post where CCP said they have no plans for MT whatsoever. Nothing they say has any value. They are spliting hairs in a Bill Clinton esque fasion. What is is?


Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new.

The statements we get now come from CCP Zulu, Senior Producer for Eve Online, have been seen and commented on by CCP Hellmar, CEO, Several members of Game Design and Marketing were present during those discussions as well. The statement represents the views of the company. Period.


How much is CCP paying you? Or is that part of the NDA?

Bizzi Zeitschrift
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:24:00 - [658]
 

Originally by: CyberGh0st
Well, with this statement I could resub again in good conscience, however I am a bit burned out, and want to see how it goes.

So while I have good hope, I am not resubbing just yet.



Idle threats...why would you have to resub "just yet"? Clearly your sub hasn't even run out just yet.

And all of you that got so knee jerk mad at this and are STILL mad are looking for things to be mad at. There will be no pleasing you guys..ever.

Laplamis
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:25:00 - [659]
 

'Summit' covers what are mostly phantom problems, while substantive issues remain unaddressed.

Can't say I blame the CSM; we have no real power against this company, EVE is their property.

Will not be resubbing before real reforms occur.

Jennie Marlboro
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2011.07.02 22:26:00 - [660]
 

Good job, CSM.

I'm not convinced CCP did not, in fact, plan to sell gold ammo and other non-vanity items, but I am convinced that, for now at least, you've driven a spike through the heart of those plans. And good for CCP for taking seriously its players' concerns. Hopefully, that will continue.

CCP has quite a lot of bright people on its payroll. I'm sure they can design items that won't affect gameplay that people will want to buy -- especially once they open up the stations.


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