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Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:10:00 - [451]
 

Originally by: Adakis Fenikkusu
Edited by: Adakis Fenikkusu on 02/07/2011 19:01:07
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Edited by: Sarina Berghil on 02/07/2011 18:58:14
Originally by: Ranka Mei

@ CCP Navigator: I hope you continue on your vision for Incarna. Like the man said in his leaked email, 10 years from now, no one's gonna give a hoot whether some whiner couldn't run Incarna on his laptop a decade ago. Personally, I think it's visually stunning, and it adds a whole new dimension to EVE.


I would love to know what CCPs vision is for Incarna and other parts of the game for that matter, if there is a vision. It all seems very random and unplanned at times.

Preferably a bit more detailed than "Full sci-fi simulation one step at a time".


How are microtransactions from Dust going to influence Eve? What gameplay perspectives do CCP envision for incarna? How will Incarna gameplay influence flying in space? Those are important questions, but questions that are dodged, maybe because CCP don't know, or maybe they are afraid to say because of possible backlash.

The reason for not telling about the NeX store until it went live seems to have been that they were afraid of backlash from the players, and see where that went.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mlVuLs_Nw

Enjoy!

@Zen Sarum: What CCP have said, applies only to EVE-Online. They may very well decide on another payment model definitely for DUST 514, and maybe for World of Darkness.



PER CCP-- dust 514 is going to impact 0.0 sov mechanics..... That means the MT based Dust players will impact the Eve world with $$ for advantage... CCP has been side stepping this question since the RPS interview here:
RPS Dust interview

"RPS: So, if Im an EVE player, how is my game going to change after DUST is released?

Torfi: Well, you have the ability to be more strategic when you are conquering planets and solar systems, in nulsec. Those are the main touchpoints. Highsec carebears need not worry. The same for lowsec. The main touchpoint upon the launch of DUST, will be in nulsec, will be in sovereignty, will be in inflicting damage and destruction and death upon your enemies, destroying their infrastructure and their means to survive, either by means or scorched earth or by stealing their installations on the surfaces of planets. There will be more going on on the surfaces of planets. Weve introduced mechanics allowing people to manufacture goods on the planets, but planets will play a more pivotal role in sovereignty mechanics further down the line."

MT for advantage by proxy.... That is why some of us don't buy your current statements.....





Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:10:00 - [452]
 

Edited by: Mag''s on 02/07/2011 19:34:48
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
So it's about the "idea" that your player goes out of its pod?
Or is it about the associated performance of loading your character?

Which is it?

Both have been addressed by CCP's statement.
You're trolling, right?


the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar.

*THAT* answers both those concerns.

The most ridiculous bit about this whole hangar argument is that *I* was the one getting all mad at :ccp: when I thought they didn't understand the whole problem with mandatory InCarna docking. I've been convinced, so please rephrase your issue in clearly defined terms so I can answer them appropriately and kill this.
You missed the most important part of the statement.

and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance.

So I ask again, are you trolling? Because if you are not, you and the CSM and CCP have completely missed the point.

Draahk Chimera
Interstellar eXodus
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:10:00 - [453]
 

This looks very good to me. No "gold ammo" or the like. Also a recognition that there are grey areas but if any grey area is approached they will ask the CSM how they feel. I would like to extend my thanks to the CSM delegates who ran off to Iceland on a 3 day notice on my and other's behalf.
The one thing that still concerns me is the Hilmar letter of course but I guess that will never be adressed.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:10:00 - [454]
 

Originally by: CCP Navigator
A blog has been published which includes a joint overview video with CCP Zulu, Senior Producer of EVE Online, and The Mittani, CSM Chairman; a German transcript and a Russian transcript of the video will be added once translation has been completed. Individual statements by the CCP and the CSM, which are also available in German and Russian have been published. Please note that at the time of this post the CSM delegates departed Iceland today and are en route to their respective homes, therefore they may not be available for immediate comment.

To read the blog in full, please click on this link.

Update at 00:26 UTC. German and Russian video transcripts added.


This does the minimum that needed to be done.

I'll still be watching what you do, rather than what you say, but I will at least keep watching.

Dr Valeri
Royal Khanid Engineering
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:11:00 - [455]
 

ey guys, no game-breaking MT.

Why are you still *MAD*?

Sha Dar
eXceed Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:11:00 - [456]
 

Originally by: Smoking Blunts
Edited by: Smoking Blunts on 02/07/2011 19:09:36
Originally by: CCP Navigator

Return of ship spinning

This is something that a lot of players are curious about and what I can tell you is that we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before. The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized but we will bring you more information in a future dev blog.




how hard would it be to return toteh old view and a disembark button?.
what you have planned makes no sence, will take way more time and man power than adding a button.
do you lot just like wasting money and time in iceland?



No, they just insist on forcing us all to Beta test the WOD engine and play barbies in space...Evil or Very Mad

Telven Stareal
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:12:00 - [457]
 

Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Telven Stareal

First, please look up what the word opaque means. And while you do that, also what the word "only" means as well.

I say this because they very clearly say, "The NeX store will "ONLY" sell vanity items."

I really don't know how much more clear they can be..


Bolded and underlined the relevant part for you. You do see that by acknowledging a class of grey area transactions they have not said there will be no non-vanity items. It seems entirely possible that 'convenience' purchases, especially those that relate to services rather than items, such as extra fitting slots or faction standings, might be sold through a mechanism other than the NeX store. If they intended 'game breaking' to cover all non-vanity purchases a) why not say that, and b) where could there possibly be any grey areas?


I can admit you have a valid point. However, only because you are looking for what isn't being said. You do realize we could spin it another way all together, right?

You could say, they plan on stopping the sale of plex and requiring all Aur to be RMT. After all, they didn't address what is going to happen to plex. Or you could say they are going to release a second store that will offer non vanity items, as you are hinting at (or something like that).

The primary issue here is what "you" take a way from what was posted. If you look for what isn't said and ignore what was said. You can get almost anything you want from it. Anyone with intelligence can do this.

ISquishWorms
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:12:00 - [458]
 

Well I am happy with the outcome thanks CCP and CSM for finding some common ground and thrashing this all out for us.

I can now get back to playing the game I love most.

Did I read the blog right though that we will still be loosing ship spinning once CQ performance has been improved to a satifactory level?

Dalketh
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:13:00 - [459]
 

Originally by: Adakis Fenikkusu
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: CCP
It is CCPs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.

Why didn't you just say this last Friday when people asked whether you would introduce those items?

A simple:
"No, we will not introduce non-vanity items in the NeX store!"
would have cleared up everything!

Confused


Probably because the community exploded after the leak and they also had internal affairs to deal with, they decided to let the community settle down, then release more concise information about a lot of things, instead of just one thing.


Your nose is getting more and more brown with every post you make. Must be a character creator glitch. ugh

Sha Dar
eXceed Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:14:00 - [460]
 

Originally by: ISquishWorms
Well I am happy with the outcome thanks CCP and CSM for finding some common ground and thrashing this all out for us.

I can now get back to playing the game I love most.

Did I read the blog right though that we will still be loosing ship spinning once CQ performance has been improved to a satifactory level?


"and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance."

It seems so yes.

Yulinki Atavuli
Minmatar
Caldari Investment and Security Industries
Innovia Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:14:00 - [461]
 

Originally by: Wingi
You have definitely clarified your position, its too late for me, that does not mean that i distrust what you say i guess i have been unhappy with the direction of eve since the announcement of dust. Plus i have found another home, i do believe you need a good competitor for the sake of eve and sandbox mmo's in general. My 3 accounts still go, but i think you have done enough to save the game well done CSM and CCP :)

Fly safe...


I never really thought i would see someone upset about the "A Future Vision" video... everyone else was really excited about it...

Tichu Tilyon
Ordo Drakonis
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:14:00 - [462]
 

Omg, was that so hard to begin with? You(CCP) needed the CSM to hold your hand to resolve the problems properly?

Anyways, thx for the info CCP/CSM looking foward to ship spining again!

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:16:00 - [463]
 

Originally by: Ra Vhim
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

The most ridiculous bit about this whole hangar argument is that *I* was the one getting all mad at :ccp: when I thought they didn't understand the whole problem with mandatory InCarna docking. I've been convinced, so please rephrase your issue in clearly defined terms so I can answer them appropriately and kill this.


Please do tell how you were convinced. You obviously have heard some sort of argument that might help a lot of people understand.

I myself is mostly annoyed that I am forced to take part of Incarna. It would be like being forced to take part of FW. I did for example not care about CCP making FW because I know some like it, but if they decided to force it upon me then I would get pretty annoyed.

I simply have no interest in Incarna, at least not now, and as far as I can tell Incarna is a WoD test (which is okay) and a MT store. I leave Eve and the player controlled market and enter Incarna and the MT world. I don't want to do that. If Incarna give me something I am interested in (perhaps poker) then I might want to leave Eve and step out into Incarna, but I am of the opinion that it should be my choice.



This is basically what we are talking about.

Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:16:00 - [464]
 

The words "never will be plans for non-vanity items" seem to be missing. Fix this.

d4shing
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:16:00 - [465]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: CCP Navigator
A blog has been published which includes a joint overview video with CCP Zulu, Senior Producer of EVE Online, and The Mittani, CSM Chairman; a German transcript and a Russian transcript of the video will be added once translation has been completed. Individual statements by the CCP and the CSM, which are also available in German and Russian have been published. Please note that at the time of this post the CSM delegates departed Iceland today and are en route to their respective homes, therefore they may not be available for immediate comment.

To read the blog in full, please click on this link.

Update at 00:26 UTC. German and Russian video transcripts added.


This does the minimum that needed to be done.

I'll still be watching what you do, rather than what you say, but I will at least keep watching.


x2

Don't know why you needed people to come to iceland to make careful and statements about how you won't break the game and don't currently have plans for non-vanity MTs (you didn't have any plans for any MTs at all less than a year ago, so that's worthless)...

Has CCP ever considered that the problem might be that they're trying to make more money from a game without making it more fun to play, and that's inherently a very stupid and counter-productive route? What if you just made the game better, instead of trying to wring it dry to fund WoD and DUST?

Gevlin
Minmatar
Lone Star Exploration
Lone Star Partners
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:18:00 - [466]
 

I am saddened by the no sale of Gold bullets. I was looking forward to ammo that did 1/2 the damage of Iron Sabbots rounds and cost 100x as much.

If shot - the victim would have a message pop up on his screen saying:

"You have been shot by ammo with more than your ship - You have been Blinged"

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:18:00 - [467]
 

Originally by: Adakis Fenikkusu
Edited by: Adakis Fenikkusu on 02/07/2011 19:01:07
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Edited by: Sarina Berghil on 02/07/2011 18:58:14
Originally by: Ranka Mei

@ CCP Navigator: I hope you continue on your vision for Incarna. Like the man said in his leaked email, 10 years from now, no one's gonna give a hoot whether some whiner couldn't run Incarna on his laptop a decade ago. Personally, I think it's visually stunning, and it adds a whole new dimension to EVE.


I would love to know what CCPs vision is for Incarna and other parts of the game for that matter, if there is a vision. It all seems very random and unplanned at times.

Preferably a bit more detailed than "Full sci-fi simulation one step at a time".


How are microtransactions from Dust going to influence Eve? What gameplay perspectives do CCP envision for incarna? How will Incarna gameplay influence flying in space? Those are important questions, but questions that are dodged, maybe because CCP don't know, or maybe they are afraid to say because of possible backlash.

The reason for not telling about the NeX store until it went live seems to have been that they were afraid of backlash from the players, and see where that went.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mlVuLs_Nw

Enjoy!

@Zen Sarum: What CCP have said, applies only to EVE-Online. They may very well decide on another payment model definitely for DUST 514, and maybe for World of Darkness.




Thats not a vision, thats a commercial for Dust. We have even been told parts of it is misleading. Most of those CCP videos go for a style with some freedom to dig into backstory more than gameplay. Therefore they are a poor substitute for real information.

We know for sure that Dust will be F2P with microtransactions that offer advantages, how those will impact the EvE universe is an important question.

RAW23
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:18:00 - [468]
 

Edited by: RAW23 on 02/07/2011 19:22:14
Originally by: Telven Stareal
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Telven Stareal

First, please look up what the word opaque means. And while you do that, also what the word "only" means as well.

I say this because they very clearly say, "The NeX store will "ONLY" sell vanity items."

I really don't know how much more clear they can be..


Bolded and underlined the relevant part for you. You do see that by acknowledging a class of grey area transactions they have not said there will be no non-vanity items. It seems entirely possible that 'convenience' purchases, especially those that relate to services rather than items, such as extra fitting slots or faction standings, might be sold through a mechanism other than the NeX store. If they intended 'game breaking' to cover all non-vanity purchases a) why not say that, and b) where could there possibly be any grey areas?


I can admit you have a valid point. However, only because you are looking for what isn't being said. You do realize we could spin it another way all together, right?

You could say, they plan on stopping the sale of plex and requiring all Aur to be RMT. After all, they didn't address what is going to happen to plex. Or you could say they are going to release a second store that will offer non vanity items, as you are hinting at (or something like that).

The primary issue here is what "you" take a way from what was posted. If you look for what isn't said and ignore what was said. You can get almost anything you want from it. Anyone with intelligence can do this.


I'm not looking to 'spin it', I just want some clarity. One of the CSM reps has said that they have a clear conception of what falls into the game breaking category. I don't, not having been party to the choice of wording, and I would like them to share that conception with me. The problem with leaving things unclear is that a lot of people, myself included, thougt that the statements last year about 'no MT' were generally applicable. But on going back we find that, actually, it is necessary to interpret them very precisely because it is now claimed that they were only addressing MT for SP. Which is fine. But this time round I want a precise understanding that I can rely on so that if things do go 'MT for ingame advantage' in a year or so I won't be faced with claims that it was never ruled out this time and that I had just projected my desires and expectations onto these imprecise statements like I did with the previous round of statements.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:21:00 - [469]
 

Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
The words "never will be plans for non-vanity items" seem to be missing. Fix this.


They also didn't say the sky is red, or that the Earth is flat, so obviously this must be true as well.

It is simply impossible to come up with a statement that some idiot can't rip an imaginary hole in.

Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:23:00 - [470]
 

gg all.

Salpun
Gallente
Paramount Commerce
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:23:00 - [471]
 

Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Adakis Fenikkusu
Edited by: Adakis Fenikkusu on 02/07/2011 19:01:07
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Edited by: Sarina Berghil on 02/07/2011 18:58:14
Originally by: Ranka Mei

@ CCP Navigator: I hope you continue on your vision for Incarna. Like the man said in his leaked email, 10 years from now, no one's gonna give a hoot whether some whiner couldn't run Incarna on his laptop a decade ago. Personally, I think it's visually stunning, and it adds a whole new dimension to EVE.


I would love to know what CCPs vision is for Incarna and other parts of the game for that matter, if there is a vision. It all seems very random and unplanned at times.

Preferably a bit more detailed than "Full sci-fi simulation one step at a time".


How are microtransactions from Dust going to influence Eve? What gameplay perspectives do CCP envision for incarna? How will Incarna gameplay influence flying in space? Those are important questions, but questions that are dodged, maybe because CCP don't know, or maybe they are afraid to say because of possible backlash.

The reason for not telling about the NeX store until it went live seems to have been that they were afraid of backlash from the players, and see where that went.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mlVuLs_Nw

Enjoy!

@Zen Sarum: What CCP have said, applies only to EVE-Online. They may very well decide on another payment model definitely for DUST 514, and maybe for World of Darkness.



PER CCP-- dust 514 is going to impact 0.0 sov mechanics..... That means the MT based Dust players will impact the Eve world with $$ for advantage... CCP has been side stepping this question since the RPS interview here:
RPS Dust interview

"RPS: So, if Im an EVE player, how is my game going to change after DUST is released?

Torfi: Well, you have the ability to be more strategic when you are conquering planets and solar systems, in nulsec. Those are the main touchpoints. Highsec carebears need not worry. The same for lowsec. The main touchpoint upon the launch of DUST, will be in nulsec, will be in sovereignty, will be in inflicting damage and destruction and death upon your enemies, destroying their infrastructure and their means to survive, either by means or scorched earth or by stealing their installations on the surfaces of planets. There will be more going on on the surfaces of planets. Weve introduced mechanics allowing people to manufacture goods on the planets, but planets will play a more pivotal role in sovereignty mechanics further down the line."

MT for advantage by proxy.... That is why some of us don't buy your current statements.....



This is the next big question. The only salution I see is if an item is true P2W extra stats etc. It also have down sides that allow EVE players to kill them easier. If they are just using $ to buy more clone bodies etc. But does not effect the balance of the game I see no problem with it. The first time an item like the current version of a suppercarrier shows up there might be problems.

Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:24:00 - [472]
 

Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
Originally by: Mister Smithington
I, for one, am satisfied.

The statements were almost as good as I had hoped, and certainly better than I'd feared. I'm overjoyed to hear that the hangar view will be returning.



READ THE THREAD.

Navigator has already clarified that hangar view will NOT be returning.

They are playing you.


No, they aren't playing me. CQ loads just as fast for me as the station enviornment ever did, and the statement says the new hangar will have the same functionality as the old.
Quote:
We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar


My complaint with the absent hangar was that it was stupid to decant every time you need to grab ammo, or when you're just waiting for someone else to undock. It doesn't need to be THE SAME old hangar to be an acceptable solution.

Deja Thoris
Invicta.
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:25:00 - [473]
 

Pretty decent response. Could have been better, could have been worse. Should have been quicker.

It still irks me that you reaffirm your commitment to great communication and then hide behind NDA's with pricing strategies. While lots of people quit because of the "golden ammo" side, I quit because I object to where CCP is posisitioning itself in the market. Anything that is priced as exclusive is a "****take" and annoys me and always has. The standard response is "just don't buy it lol". That doesn't seem to go far enough for me. When a club charges double the price of others for drinks, I don't just not buy them, I don't pay the cover fee either - the best analagy I can come up with. People can agree or disagree, as is their right, but its how I feel.

CCP's products aren't exclusive. They are just pixels, instead of feeling the need to price them as "microtransactions" you thought it would be cool to charge $70. That fact has not been forgotten. Exclusive handbags are rare or quality materials and craftsmanship go into their construction to reflect the pricetag. Whereas all you are doing is selling pixelated turds for $70 as faux exclusivity.

The ****storm was a pretty good reason to quit and I don't have a strong enough reason to resub at the moment. I'll just part ways with you. I won't wish you luck for the future but I do thank you for the good times we had.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:25:00 - [474]
 

Originally by: Mister Smithington
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
Originally by: Mister Smithington
I, for one, am satisfied.

The statements were almost as good as I had hoped, and certainly better than I'd feared. I'm overjoyed to hear that the hangar view will be returning.



READ THE THREAD.

Navigator has already clarified that hangar view will NOT be returning.

They are playing you.


No, they aren't playing me. CQ loads just as fast for me as the station enviornment ever did, and the statement says the new hangar will have the same functionality as the old.
Quote:
We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar


My complaint with the absent hangar was that it was stupid to decant every time you need to grab ammo, or when you're just waiting for someone else to undock. It doesn't need to be THE SAME old hangar to be an acceptable solution.


Precisely.

Gevlin
Minmatar
Lone Star Exploration
Lone Star Partners
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:26:00 - [475]
 

Development of WOD and Dust is like skill points.

Put the development into carbon which these products develop off of. Now as these products develop, elements from these games can be applied to Eve.

Don't want to be out done by Cryptic Studios! Who already has 5 in their tier 1 learning skills.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:27:00 - [476]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Precisely.

*cough* and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance.

impli
Singularity.
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:27:00 - [477]
 

I think they stated very clear statements and the BIG YELLOW QUESTION is answered.

EVE is save and CCP should regain your trust again. Let they work on the issues.

Danke an CCP's und CSM's Thanks, Blagodarq, Merci.

HyperZerg
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:28:00 - [478]
 

Edited by: HyperZerg on 02/07/2011 19:31:48
One year ago there were NO PLANS for Microtransactions. Now there are MT but NO PLANS for non-Vanity items. So, in one year we get finally get them ?

Btw,
Good by sandbox
No statement about WHY they made MT besides greed
Also, the internal newsletter contained PLANS for non-vanity items. YES it does. Even if you don't realise them, they are PLANS. So, more lies CCP ?

*edit*
Why do we have to pay double for items anyway ? Don't we already pay a monthly fee ?

Shadow XII
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:28:00 - [479]
 

Originally by: Hektor Fisk
Edited by: Hektor Fisk on 02/07/2011 16:41:30
Originally by: CCP
It is CCPs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.


\o/


Why in ****'s name did that take nearly two weeks to come out? Why did you need to talk to CSM to reach this decision?

Surviving and trying to repair a PR apocalypse just to end like this. Well done.

Catherine DeLane
Posted - 2011.07.02 19:30:00 - [480]
 

All this angst from folks! In fact it brings to mind some highschool shakespeare...

[to paraphrase from macbeth I think]

[re: all this continued player rage and anger] ... 'it is a tale told by an idiot; full of sound and fury but signifying nothing'

We've had the ragefest and we've had the CCP statement folks; lets give CCP time now to step up and make the devblogs, the communication updates, the game upgrades and bring back the ship spinning etc. Lets all take a collective deep breath and move on.


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