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blankseplocked [Suggestion] Replace attribute implants
 
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Reverend Raiden
Posted - 2011.07.03 14:39:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Reverend Raiden on 03/07/2011 14:38:43
+1 OP.

Also its both amusing and sad that none of the naysayers managed to either read the entire op, or atleast understand what he is saying. Mouthbreathers FTL.

Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.03 14:48:00 - [32]
 

Either this, or shorter clone jump times.
+1

Songbird
Gallente
T.I.E. Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.03 14:51:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Songbird on 03/07/2011 14:51:27
+1 to removing jump clone waiting period


apparently I can't spell clone, btw the IGB has lag when typing... has anyone else noticed that?

Whatisthiz
Posted - 2011.07.03 16:25:00 - [34]
 

+1
Best post in a long time, hope ccp gets this!

Ripperljohn
Caldari
Ore Mongers
Posted - 2011.07.03 19:49:00 - [35]
 

very good idea, supporting.

Anamiel
Minmatar
Ore Mongers

Posted - 2011.07.03 19:53:00 - [36]
 

+1, great idea

Portmanteau
Gallente
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.07.03 21:17:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Portmanteau on 03/07/2011 21:16:54
Originally by: Better Than You
The current system works just fine. Not everything in this game has to revolve around PvP you know.

/not supported



and it doesn't

/supported

Egilmonsc
Minmatar
Massively Mob

Posted - 2011.07.04 00:54:00 - [38]
 

Supported for changing the stagnant one-time-pay system of attribute implants into a continuous investment.

And for the possibility of creating a new legal profession: pharmacist.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.04 02:44:00 - [39]
 

Good thoughts, but I don't see a problem in the current system. You can have the consumables for your no implant 0.0 clone, and +5s for your emp clone. Where is the flaw in that system?

One thing you failed to consider is that if you did away with the implants though you will make 0.0 clones more equivalent to empire clones, you just removed all differentiation between the rich and the poor (beginners) who cannot afford +5s. I think that is a FAR WORSE game balance ruiner. As you know the skilltree is not linear, and a lot of the higher skills really require implants to be able to train in reasonable time. It would really suck if I had to keep 'feeding consumables' to my clone as I train for my carrier.

Shereza
Posted - 2011.07.04 05:30:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Shereza on 04/07/2011 05:30:22
Originally by: Better Than You
The current system works just fine. Not everything in this game has to revolve around PvP you know.

/not supported



It would affect PvE as well by helping convince some of the more adventurous carebears to consider going into low-sec/null-sec to do missions, ratting, and/or mining.

Jorn Grevis
Gallente
Ore Mongers
Posted - 2011.07.04 06:48:00 - [41]
 

+1

Comy 1
Ore Mongers
Indecisive Certainty
Posted - 2011.07.04 08:13:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Kaelie Onren
you just removed all differentiation between the rich and the poor (beginners) who cannot afford +5s. I think that is a FAR WORSE game balance ruiner.


WHAT? How the hell do you think now? Really explain to me.

Sydexlic Maragan
Posted - 2011.07.04 11:17:00 - [43]
 

I think a better solution would be to make jump cloning a 12 hourly cooldown or even less. No new system needs to be enacted and it provides most of the benefits to your proposal. Right now, the 24 hour cooldown is overly restrictive without doing much, if anything for gameplay.

Jahpahjay
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:12:00 - [44]
 

The more I think about this idea, the more I like it. While it may be simpler just to shorten JC times, shortening does not also create more opportunities for new jobs nor does it really protect implant investment (just circumvents the problem).

This idea solves quite a few problems, with extra opportunities to boot. Not to mention an isk sink of a sort, which HAS to get CCP's approval.

Supported.

Quinn Diaz
DON'T DO IT DAD
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:31:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Sydexlic Maragan
I think a better solution would be to make jump cloning a 12 hourly cooldown or even less. No new system needs to be enacted and it provides most of the benefits to your proposal. Right now, the 24 hour cooldown is overly restrictive without doing much, if anything for gameplay.


They actually have a similar system in place already for new players that buy the boxed version of the game. They get a booster that increase their attributes and some combat stats that have a 10 day duration if my memory serves me right.

I love this idea!

Dare X
Caldari
The 0ffice of Secret Intelligence
SoulWing Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.04 15:11:00 - [46]
 

I completely support anything that encourages PvP.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.04 17:13:00 - [47]
 

Supported.
After all I suggested something similar a few years ago.

The best way, I feel, would be to keep both systems, 24 hours stat boosters for people doing dangerous things and implants for people doing less dangerous activities.

The components for the stat boosters should come from gas harvesting (most or all of it done in low sec/0.0) and they should be balanced so that 3 months of continuous use of the boosters would be roughly equivalent to the cost of a implant of the same strength.

The boosters should cease functioning if you get killed (to keep them working the same way of the implants), but as the single pill will be fairly inexpensive it shouldn't be a big problem.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.05 07:12:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Comy 1
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
you just removed all differentiation between the rich and the poor (beginners) who cannot afford +5s. I think that is a FAR WORSE game balance ruiner.


WHAT? How the hell do you think now? Really explain to me.



Rich can afford to keep +5s in. Poor cannot.
Rich presently can have clones with both implants and boosters.
Poor may only have +2 and boosters.

Do away with the implants, and you have both rich and poor with boosters. The non-linearity comes from the fact that implants cost go up a lot from +1 to +5. Boosters, or any consumables, won't be as expensive as any perma boosting implant. Flattening the divide between rich/poor.

DeftCrow Redriver
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.07.05 07:43:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Snip

If you define "the rich" as someone who simply consumes +5 booster spices or uses +5 implants, then you're scope on this subject is pitiful. (More so because "the rich" PvPers would want Slaves, Halos and Snakes, not +5s.)

Want a divide between the rich/poor? Then become a supplier, explore the virgin spice market, expand the spice business and exploit the poor masses that will rely on the new spice, namely by force or marketeering. It's for the Latinum baby!

sekips spikes
Posted - 2011.07.05 18:01:00 - [50]
 

The empiredwellers have a nice income (if they care enough to read up on how to run missions) with practically no risk, I dont see a problem with that. It is way to easy to make isk in empire as it is, noone should be able to complain about being poor and living in empire.

Those that want to reduce the JC timer need to rethink that, it would create more problems than solutions.

Apice
Posted - 2011.07.05 19:29:00 - [51]
 

+0.5

I like the idea of player crafted boosters replacing the attribute implants, however I would like to see the effects destroyed upon death. Just make the resources/manufacturing for the higher level boosters +5 skills available only in null sec. So while the boosters would have to be applied more often, they would also be more accessible at a lower cost.

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.07.05 19:54:00 - [52]
 

I like the direction this is going.

Jack Viresi
Point of No Return
Waterboard
Posted - 2011.07.05 23:29:00 - [53]
 

Intriguing Idea.

Rented
Posted - 2011.07.06 01:29:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Rented on 06/07/2011 01:29:30
Agreed, I've always found attribute implants to be nearly as silly and irritating as learning skills were, no matter what clone you're in you feel like you're getting screwed because of your choice.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.06 03:30:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 06/07/2011 03:31:49
Originally by: DeftCrow Redriver
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Snip

If you define "the rich" as someone who simply consumes +5 booster spices or uses +5 implants, then you're scope on this subject is pitiful. (More so because "the rich" PvPers would want Slaves, Halos and Snakes, not +5s.)

Want a divide between the rich/poor? Then become a supplier, explore the virgin spice market, expand the spice business and exploit the poor masses that will rely on the new spice, namely by force or marketeering. It's for the Latinum baby!


I was illustrating a point, but sure, if the use of snakes or other more expensive implants pleases you, then feel free to substitute.

So in a long winded way then, you will agree with me that this change will flatten the rich/poor divide.
That is game balance altering, and although not all game balance altering changes are a bad thing. They need to be well thought out in a pro/con basis. I see nobody on this forum considering the cons.
Let me throw one out just off the top of my head.... do this... then what happens to all the storyline missions which give out juicy implants? You gimp them to give out temp boosters instead? Booster blueprints? Not exactly the same...what about everyone who currently have implants? do they instantly disappear? Do people get 'paid back' for them? If yes, then at what price? What about the people who in the game who are training for super caps and are happy to just leave their character dormant and training for 3 months? Are you not rudely imposing upon their freedom to do that? Now they must log in every 2 weeks to "freshen up" their booster?

I support this discussion going on, but I encourage more people to think about the unforeseen/negative consequences, instead of just basking in the glow of the positives.

Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena

Posted - 2011.07.06 03:32:00 - [56]
 

If there's an option to use boosters that last a whole month (think of people on vacation, but leaving their character training?), I might stand by this. But also a daily solution would be invaluable for null-sec pilots... they would just have to keep a stockpile.

Ultimately, though, I think I like the idea of having both in place, and making it so the boosters are incompatible with the implants that give the same bonuses, to counteract the 'boosters AND implants' advantage some posters have expressed concern about - if it is deemed necessary, at least. Or just have a maximum attribute boost hard-coded in, so that someone using +4s, for instance, could maybe take +1 boosters only.

I still support the classic implants because they're a solid investment- you pay the premiums, you get consistent, no-maintenance training boost. But I also wholeheartedly agree on an alternative, especially if it makes good use of an underutilized market.

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.07.06 05:14:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
If there's an option to use boosters that last a whole month (think of people on vacation, but leaving their character training?), I might stand by this. But also a daily solution would be invaluable for null-sec pilots... they would just have to keep a stockpile.


Considering that skills train based on the attributes that existed when they started training, this is a nonissue really.

Even if the booster expired once you started the skill, the entire train time for that skill would still evidence the boosted effect.

Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
Posted - 2011.07.06 12:08:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Val'Dore
Considering that skills train based on the attributes that existed when they started training, this is a nonissue really.

Even if the booster expired once you started the skill, the entire train time for that skill would still evidence the boosted effect.

Ah, that helps. So that means when remapping, your current skill won't be slowed down if you are remapping away from its primary or secondary? If so, this greatly simplifies my issues around remapping time.

I still think attribute implants can stay in for those willing to risk it for the convenience of not having to keep using the boosters... but, as I said, they either shouldn't be able to use boosters, or only gain up to the current maximum bonus.

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.07.06 13:29:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: Val'Dore
Considering that skills train based on the attributes that existed when they started training, this is a nonissue really.

Even if the booster expired once you started the skill, the entire train time for that skill would still evidence the boosted effect.

Ah, that helps. So that means when remapping, your current skill won't be slowed down if you are remapping away from its primary or secondary? If so, this greatly simplifies my issues around remapping time.

I still think attribute implants can stay in for those willing to risk it for the convenience of not having to keep using the boosters... but, as I said, they either shouldn't be able to use boosters, or only gain up to the current maximum bonus.


Well, I haven't personally tested it, but I think remapping forces your skill to stop progressing. You also have to stop your skill progress to add implants. But jump cloning out of your +5s while Carrier 5 is ticking down for the next 3 weeks, will not result in an increase of training time.

Dravidshky
Posted - 2011.07.09 10:56:00 - [60]
 

Supported and bumped


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