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Atreus Venom
Gallente
New Eden Hitmen
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:29:00 - [181]
 

Edited by: Atreus Venom on 01/07/2011 19:30:10

wtf does PL pet always a PET mean?
in reguards to a response on my video thats in my signature
I don't get it


Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:29:00 - [182]
 

Originally by: Koba Kyogen
Originally by: Atreus Venom
Big Print Edition


We have already made up our minds what the truth is, don't confuse us with facts.



come on everyone repost this



B*tch slap of truth.




Koba


Fixed it for you.

Darth Helmat
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:30:00 - [183]
 

Edited by: Darth Helmat on 01/07/2011 19:33:26
Originally by: RensPriceChecker2
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow


You want clear statements. Clear statements take a little extra time.
Trebor


Clear statements take no extra time at all. You just write down how things are. Architected, deceiving statements are thoose that take time to come up with to cover what could have been a clear statement instead.


Recipe:

<para 1> Apologise for crap communication, and our patience, and reassert commitment to eve, and how much they value input from the community.

<para 2> State the factually bleedin obvious in that no items in the NeX store affect gameplay, and are completely optional. Mention that CQ is just the beginning of much awesomeness, and we need to be patient for the real content, but they are really please with how smoothly recent changes went given how big and fundamental they are.

<para 3> Explain why they can't make concrete commitments about the future blah looking after the business blah evolving markets and industry trends blah shareholders blah mustn't close down future options.

<para 4> Explain that they have been thinking about what things could go in the nex store, but its all conjecture, and no plans to implement anything right now.

<para 5> Explain that some things that might go in the nex store won't amount to play to win ---insert convoluted argument--- and will be not that much different to plex or trading on the character market.

<para 6> Long paragraph to distract from the last one, indicating they'd miscalculated AUR prices and it'll be sorted out soon.

<para 7> Tell us about all the roadmap for incarna, and how we'll be able to go through the door and, er, walk sloooowly around and bump into each other, and er other awesome stuff, that they've been trying to think of over the last 5 days. Er and you can nuke console players from space and stuff.

<para 8> reaffirm the value of the community and our opinions, and how great the CSM is for drawing this to their attention and how valuable all the feedback is and how good it is that there is a nice positive outcome.


Govinda Sertan
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:31:00 - [184]
 

Originally by: Clavian Voi


You see, Trebor, this is why we don't trust you and why so many people are referring to the CSM as a joke. You're either intentionally misrepresenting the entire situation or truly are clueless about how the community actually feels. So let's clarify it: We're not ****ed off because CCP failed to clearly communicate its plans for EVE to us. On the contrary, we have a very clear understanding of where CCP is headed and have already seen part of it with our own eyes with the release of Incarna.

Sorry, Trebor, but this is not just a big misunderstanding. Not by a long shot. A very significant portion of EVE players are fundamentally opposed to where CCP wants to take EVE, and we have no intention of being fleeced to pay for it. CCP's behavior has been appalling, if not entirely unexpected. But the response of the CSM has been slow, disorganized, and generally somewhat clueless. Many of us had hoped that would not be the case.

Unfortunately, the general consensus is that the CSM members have become willing participants in CCP's MT-fuelled dog and pony show. So no, we don't trust you. And no, your big 'joint statement' is not going to be taken at face value. It's going to be treated with the same skepticism with which many players have now learned to treat everything produced by CCP.

A little less frat boy partying and a little more attention to effective communication with the community might done wonders to change the perception of the CSM. The community's united response over the last week provided you and your fellow CSM members with a golden opportunity to finally push for a serious revision of CCP's long-term development roadmap. Instead, we've seen nothing but stalling and bragging about hangovers and partying with the devs.



NoobPwn
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:31:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Atreus Venom
Big Print Edition


You see, Trebor, this is why we don't trust you and why so many people are referring to the CSM as a joke. You're either intentionally misrepresenting the entire situation or truly are clueless about how the community actually feels. So let's clarify it: We're not ****ed off because CCP failed to clearly communicate its plans for EVE to us. On the contrary, we have a very clear understanding of where CCP is headed and have already seen part of it with our own eyes with the release of Incarna.

Sorry, Trebor, but this is not just a big misunderstanding. Not by a long shot. A very significant portion of EVE players are fundamentally opposed to where CCP wants to take EVE, and we have no intention of being fleeced to pay for it. CCP's behavior has been appalling, if not entirely unexpected. But the response of the CSM has been slow, disorganized, and generally somewhat clueless. Many of us had hoped that would not be the case.

Unfortunately, the general consensus is that the CSM members have become willing participants in CCP's MT-fuelled dog and pony show. So no, we don't trust you. And no, your big 'joint statement' is not going to be taken at face value. It's going to be treated with the same skepticism with which many players have now learned to treat everything produced by CCP.

A little less frat boy partying and a little more attention to effective communication with the community might done wonders to change the perception of the CSM. The community's united response over the last week provided you and your fellow CSM members with a golden opportunity to finally push for a serious revision of CCP's long-term development roadmap. Instead, we've seen nothing but stalling and bragging about hangovers and partying with the devs.



come on everyone repost this


Thanks for proving my point nitwit.


+1 QFT

Mister Poopypants
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:32:00 - [186]
 

My theory as to what's going to happen: CSM/CCP will state that due to the 4th of July holiday weekend in the US, the joint statement will be delayed until Tuesday.

Koba Kyogen
The Concordiat
Concordiat Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:33:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Mister Poopypants
My theory as to what's going to happen: CSM/CCP will state that due to the 4th of July holiday weekend in the US, the joint statement will be delayed until Tuesday.


Aw man - I think that is a distinct possibility and would be the final nail in this coffin.



Koba

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:34:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Govinda Sertan
Originally by: Clavian Voi


We have already made up our minds what the truth is, don't confuse us with facts.





Clarified that for you.

Tutskii
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:35:00 - [189]
 

Quote:
#tweetfleet #eveonline #csm6 Dinner with the CSM. Brb. Tomorrow. With a hangover.
ktouborg Just now
more retweet favorite reply



It seems everyone's priorities are straight.


Clavian Voi
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:36:00 - [190]
 

Originally by: Clavian Voi
You see, Trebor, this is why we don't trust you and why so many people are referring to the CSM as a joke. You're either intentionally misrepresenting the entire situation or truly are clueless about how the community actually feels. So let's clarify it: We're not ****ed off because CCP failed to clearly communicate its plans for EVE to us. On the contrary, we have a very clear understanding of where CCP is headed and have already seen part of it with our own eyes with the release of Incarna.

Sorry, Trebor, but this is not just a big misunderstanding. Not by a long shot. A very significant portion of EVE players are fundamentally opposed to where CCP wants to take EVE, and we have no intention of being fleeced to pay for it. CCP's behavior has been appalling, if not entirely unexpected. But the response of the CSM has been slow, disorganized, and generally somewhat clueless. Many of us had hoped that would not be the case.

Unfortunately, the general consensus is that the CSM members have become willing participants in CCP's MT-fuelled dog and pony show. So no, we don't trust you. And no, your big 'joint statement' is not going to be taken at face value. It's going to be treated with the same skepticism with which many players have now learned to treat everything produced by CCP.

Communication is not the heart of the problem here, ideas are. But a little less frat boy partying and a little more attention to effective communication with the community might have done wonders to change the perception of the CSM. The community's united response over the last week provided you and your fellow CSM members with a golden opportunity to finally push for a serious revision of CCP's long-term development roadmap and a return to EVE's core focus. Instead, we've seen little more than stalling and bragging about hangovers and partying with the devs.

Come back and see us when you have something of substance to share. Hopefully, that will include full minutes so that we can make up our own minds about what's going on, minus the PR spin.


Two things I would like to add to what I wrote earlier.

First, I think CCP is due some love for allowing the discussions to run pretty much uncensored on the forums over the last week. Plenty of other MMO companies have abysmal track records when it comes to allowing criticism on the official forums and they would have shut down the threads and handed out bans. CCP got that much right, at least, and they deserve some credit for it.

Second, it would be nice if there were an official mechanism for the CSM to post their thoughts, sort of like the dev blogs. Having to run around to muliple blogs, twitter accounts, and private web pages just to see what the CSM is saying is lame. The CSM needs some sort of official page here at eveonline.com where the current members can clearly and easily communicate with players. There is a forum, but that's mostly filled with questions and ideas from the players.


Dex Ironmind
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:37:00 - [191]
 

Was there some reason my title was changed? Hmmm...

* reaches for tin foil hat!

Dex was here. Cool

Ein Spiegel
Minmatar
Fly-by-Night Industries LLC PTY LTD
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:37:00 - [192]
 

Originally by: Koba Kyogen
Originally by: Mister Poopypants
My theory as to what's going to happen: CSM/CCP will state that due to the 4th of July holiday weekend in the US, the joint statement will be delayed until Tuesday.


Aw man - I think that is a distinct possibility and would be the final nail in this coffin.



Koba


Now that... that would really **** people off and me off as well. Because yeah... the 4th of July isn't a holiday in Iceland, and the Atlanta offices don't (or shouldn't) have anything involved in this.

Alouette Bistrot
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:37:00 - [193]
 

Actually, I think it will be released tomorrow as a patch, downtime will be extended, but they'll forget to include the font the statement was written in so clients will crash, requiring a full install.

Tarinara
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:38:00 - [194]
 

Wait... did I miss the memo where suddenly CCSparkle Monocle actually did anything the CSM suggested? All I remember seeing is CSM mentioning they presented ideas/concerns to CCP and CCP replying with 'Yeah fine... now let me show you these cool Vampires walking in a station...'

CSM probably has/had very little input into what CCP actually decides to do with Eve. CSM is there so CCP can gauge just how bad the players will react to any change or new sparklie non-feature and then decide if it's worth the risk. Didn't CSM come out with a statement about a year ago concerning no MT's in Eve? Then what did CCP do?

You can vilify the CSM members all you want I suppose and make them the scape goats here, but you should probably remember who is actually making the decisions about Eve the game..

Ms Freak
Amarr
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:40:00 - [195]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Folks, I am writing from my iPad in a cafe so please excuse my brevity.

The statements will be out as soon as possible. A component of the current rage has been caused by communications errors by CCP, and demanding a rushed out statement is just asking them to repeat that mistake.

You want clear statements. Clear statements take a little extra time. I know you are all anxious to hear the results, but please cut the CSM (and CCP) a little slack here.

Thanks,
Trebor


^^ This ^^

Guys - he's right - they need to address all the questions not just 1. And for the people posting that rage post about communication is jsut plain wrong - alot of people are angry and offended at CCP for the things Zulu & Hilmar have said/done - They also need to get it right - no-one wants another OMGZULURAGEWTFYOUCOKMONSTER devblog now do they!? Laughing

Juan Sezole
The Colonial Forces
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:42:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: Govinda Sertan
Originally by: Clavian Voi


You see, Trebor, this is why we don't trust you and why so many people are referring to the CSM as a joke. You're either intentionally misrepresenting the entire situation or truly are clueless about how the community actually feels. So let's clarify it: We're not ****ed off because CCP failed to clearly communicate its plans for EVE to us. On the contrary, we have a very clear understanding of where CCP is headed and have already seen part of it with our own eyes with the release of Incarna.

Sorry, Trebor, but this is not just a big misunderstanding. Not by a long shot. A very significant portion of EVE players are fundamentally opposed to where CCP wants to take EVE, and we have no intention of being fleeced to pay for it. CCP's behavior has been appalling, if not entirely unexpected. But the response of the CSM has been slow, disorganized, and generally somewhat clueless. Many of us had hoped that would not be the case.

Unfortunately, the general consensus is that the CSM members have become willing participants in CCP's MT-fuelled dog and pony show. So no, we don't trust you. And no, your big 'joint statement' is not going to be taken at face value. It's going to be treated with the same skepticism with which many players have now learned to treat everything produced by CCP.

A little less frat boy partying and a little more attention to effective communication with the community might done wonders to change the perception of the CSM. The community's united response over the last week provided you and your fellow CSM members with a golden opportunity to finally push for a serious revision of CCP's long-term development roadmap. Instead, we've seen nothing but stalling and bragging about hangovers and partying with the devs.





QFT

Treb the CSM has one shot at this, they failed over so many issues that they are under REAL pressure to get their **** together. We voted for you guys to represent US, the player, the consumer, the guy who pays for the $1000 pants.

You abuse or misuse that trust and you prove that the CSM is nothing more than a sit up and beg PR tool for CCP. I have the greatest respect for many of the PLAYERS on the CSM, time to put your money where your mouth is and start dropping your balls on the table.

Statement tonight or GTFO

Rutger Centemus
Phantom Squad
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:42:00 - [197]
 

Originally by: Ein Spiegel

The truth always takes more time to tell than lies. Lies go together well, because everything works when you make it all up.

The truth is messy, easily misunderstood, makes no sense, and in order to get it right, takes longer. Because if you don't include the entire truth, then you are in fact lying by omission, which means you're lying.

This, actually, is why a politician always lies. They never tell the entire truth, even if they know it, and even if they have a passing knowledge of what truth even is.

I mean, yeah, sure... you could get a devblog like this:

"To answer the question... NO!!! To answer the other question... YES!!! To answer the last question... MAYBE!!!"

But that tells you absolutely ****. They're taking the time to get ALL the answers, get them ALL right (because, y'know, it's not like they haven't already had their previous statements dismantled semantically and run through a ringer to determine what they REALLY mean), and to make it so you can't possibly misunderstand them. (Although, knowing how people read, I guarantee you that last one is a lost cause.)

Plus, it's after hours in Iceland. While we might "power through" to get the message out, they probably have some kind of labor laws that prevent Mittens from whipping Hilmar until he bleeds to get him to personally stand over the video and copy editors while screaming "NO BREAK! NO HOME! WORK LIKE SLAVES! THE PLAYERS MUST HAVE THIS YESTERDAY!" with Zinfandel occasionally piping in a "SILENCE!!! .... SPEAK!!!"

Besides, another day isn't going to kill you. You accept worse crap from your bank, your job, your kids, your family, and your government. Why hold CCP to a higher standard than even the Pope?

(And now, fifteen posts to declare me a CCP alt/fanboi. And who knows. Maybe I'm John Turbefield in disguise... or maybe not.)

Originally by: Malcanis
Since the least bit of poor wording or even slightly ill-chosen metaphor will spark a new ****storm, the CSM should absolutely have advised them to get this one just right. Given CCP's aptitude for enraging their customers whenever they open their mouths without thinking, I'm content to see them stopping to think before speaking about such an important subject, just for once.

This shouldn't get drowned out. Let's hope they get it right this time, one way or another.

HeIIfire11
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:44:00 - [198]
 

Originally by: Clavian Voi
Originally by: Clavian Voi
You see, Trebor, this is why we don't trust you and why so many people are referring to the CSM as a joke. You're either intentionally misrepresenting the entire situation or truly are clueless about how the community actually feels. So let's clarify it: We're not ****ed off because CCP failed to clearly communicate its plans for EVE to us. On the contrary, we have a very clear understanding of where CCP is headed and have already seen part of it with our own eyes with the release of Incarna.

Sorry, Trebor, but this is not just a big misunderstanding. Not by a long shot. A very significant portion of EVE players are fundamentally opposed to where CCP wants to take EVE, and we have no intention of being fleeced to pay for it. CCP's behavior has been appalling, if not entirely unexpected. But the response of the CSM has been slow, disorganized, and generally somewhat clueless. Many of us had hoped that would not be the case.

Unfortunately, the general consensus is that the CSM members have become willing participants in CCP's MT-fuelled dog and pony show. So no, we don't trust you. And no, your big 'joint statement' is not going to be taken at face value. It's going to be treated with the same skepticism with which many players have now learned to treat everything produced by CCP.

Communication is not the heart of the problem here, ideas are. But a little less frat boy partying and a little more attention to effective communication with the community might have done wonders to change the perception of the CSM. The community's united response over the last week provided you and your fellow CSM members with a golden opportunity to finally push for a serious revision of CCP's long-term development roadmap and a return to EVE's core focus. Instead, we've seen little more than stalling and bragging about hangovers and partying with the devs.

Come back and see us when you have something of substance to share. Hopefully, that will include full minutes so that we can make up our own minds about what's going on, minus the PR spin.


Two things I would like to add to what I wrote earlier.

First, I think CCP is due some love for allowing the discussions to run pretty much uncensored on the forums over the last week. Plenty of other MMO companies have abysmal track records when it comes to allowing criticism on the official forums and they would have shut down the threads and handed out bans. CCP got that much right, at least, and they deserve some credit for it.

Second, it would be nice if there were an official mechanism for the CSM to post their thoughts, sort of like the dev blogs. Having to run around to muliple blogs, twitter accounts, and private web pages just to see what the CSM is saying is lame. The CSM needs some sort of official page here at eveonline.com where the current members can clearly and easily communicate with players. There is a forum, but that's mostly filled with questions and ideas from the players.




A lot of eyes are on this forum..muting us would have done them no good. The gaming sites would have loved that.Laughing

Juan Sezole
The Colonial Forces
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:46:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: Ms Freak
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Folks, I am writing from my iPad in a cafe so please excuse my brevity.

The statements will be out as soon as possible. A component of the current rage has been caused by communications errors by CCP, and demanding a rushed out statement is just asking them to repeat that mistake.

You want clear statements. Clear statements take a little extra time. I know you are all anxious to hear the results, but please cut the CSM (and CCP) a little slack here.

Thanks,
Trebor


^^ This ^^

Guys - he's right - they need to address all the questions not just 1. And for the people posting that rage post about communication is jsut plain wrong - alot of people are angry and offended at CCP for the things Zulu & Hilmar have said/done - They also need to get it right - no-one wants another OMGZULURAGEWTFYOUCOKMONSTER devblog now do they!? Laughing


"Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters."

"If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor."
Albert Einstein

The man says it all



Fellblade
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:48:00 - [200]
 

Originally by: Ein Spiegel
The truth always takes more time to tell than lies. Lies go together well, because everything works when you make it all up.

The truth is messy, easily misunderstood, makes no sense, and in order to get it right, takes longer. Because if you don't include the entire truth, then you are in fact lying by omission, which means you're lying.

This, actually, is why a politician always lies. They never tell the entire truth, even if they know it, and even if they have a passing knowledge of what truth even is...

...They're taking the time to get ALL the answers, get them ALL right (because, y'know, it's not like they haven't already had their previous statements dismantled semantically and run through a ringer to determine what they REALLY mean), and to make it so you can't possibly misunderstand them. (Although, knowing how people read, I guarantee you that last one is a lost cause.)


Well said. Good to see there's someone sane who's left.

CCP have already said:
Quote:
there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum


And people required more clarification than that. When people tear apart every aspect of everything you say and deliberately view it in the most negative way possible, then it's worth taking some time to craft something that's a bit more bullet-proof.

And then people ***** because you haven't done it quickly enough.

Risingeagle
Gallente
Dark Destruction Enterprises
Coalition of the Unfortunate
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:49:00 - [201]
 

There is a few things that CCP and the CSM's need to realize. I understand that they were sitting in their little corner office somewhere, toasting each other on the successful release of Incarna and also the successful distruction of a few thousand computer systems, supposedly talking about what they're going to do with the current situation at hand. What they don't realize is IT DOESN'T MATTER what they're planning or trying to accomplish. Eve is a product of a company that customers pay for. I couldn't care less if they think that (oh lets try to make it as close to real life as possible and make them pay real cash at real prices for everything they do in eve). Bottom line is we all have families and i'm not about to go spend 700.00 on a shirt for my avitar or 3000 dollars on a ship. I pay my monthy fee religiously for both accounts, and that's all i'm going to do period. Not a dime more for anything at all ever. I have children, i work to pay my bills, not to play eve. Of course I love the game, but not more then my family and refuse to put eve before my responsibilities. What they also need to realize is i'm not the only person out of the hundreds of thousands of ppl playing that feel this way. So here's the deal, we're the customers, they're the business owners. Without customers, there's no business so there for, NO ONE CARES if they're talking about how to resolve the situation. Listen to the customers, do what the customers want, and everything will be fine. Otherwise, Eve will go from the largest online game, to nothing.

Tugrath Akers
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:52:00 - [202]
 

The statement should have been released before you all went barhopping tonight.

Xervish Krin
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:53:00 - [203]
 


We have already made up our minds what the truth is, don't confuse us with facts.


Caroliana
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:54:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: Ein Spiegel
Originally by: YarrMama
stuff


You are primary.

Engage.


No....

Originally by: Jo Blot
BREAKING NEWS:

- MONOCLEGATE STATEMENT REPORTED "LOST" IN HARD-DRIVE HEAD CRASH.
- WILL NEED "RETYPING" SAYS CSM SPOKESPERSON
- ORIGINAL NOTES "MISSING"
- "AT LEAST SEVERAL MORE WEEKS"


He is primary... Engage!!

Juno Valchelza
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:56:00 - [205]
 

Edited by: Juno Valchelza on 01/07/2011 19:56:35
Originally by: Govinda Sertan
Originally by: Juno Valchelza
Hmm... now people are starting to get after the CSM and lumping them in with CCP about communication issues.

After reading a few posts here in this thread, it just made me laugh and sigh. This is eve's player base?

I'm looking forward to the grumbling, complaining, and raging that will fill this forum as the day goes on.


Most useless post of the thread.

Thank you for trying.


LOL yup. Most useless post of this thread. Thanks.

*goes back to reading the other "useful" posts in this thread while sipping a drink and laughing.

Van Muchbetterer
Minmatar
EVE University
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:57:00 - [206]
 

Originally by: Xervish Krin

We have already made up our minds what the truth is, don't confuse us with facts.


Gabriel Rosencrantz
Gods of Freight
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:59:00 - [207]
 

As a professional writer and editor, I can attest that you can't release text the instant you stop typing. Proper translation takes time. Many idioms, terms, phrases, and manners of speech simply don't translate on a one-to-one basis.

In order to avoid issues with some players getting information first and then relaying crap to the non-english speaking players, they are doing what any organization SHOULD do. Take your time and get it right. After all, that is what you're all *****ing about, right? That they didn't take their time to get things right with Incarna before releasing it? And then screwing up their follow-up by having the CEO release a statement while angry?

Srsly, there is nothing you guys won't ***** about.

Ein Spiegel
Minmatar
Fly-by-Night Industries LLC PTY LTD
Posted - 2011.07.01 20:01:00 - [208]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Rosencrantz
As a professional writer and editor, I can attest that you can't release text the instant you stop typing. Proper translation takes time. Many idioms, terms, phrases, and manners of speech simply don't translate on a one-to-one basis.

In order to avoid issues with some players getting information first and then relaying crap to the non-english speaking players, they are doing what any organization SHOULD do. Take your time and get it right. After all, that is what you're all *****ing about, right? That they didn't take their time to get things right with Incarna before releasing it? And then screwing up their follow-up by having the CEO release a statement while angry?

Srsly, there is nothing you guys won't ***** about.


I won't ***** about getting laid by a hot chick.

Just sayin'.

Tutskii
Posted - 2011.07.01 20:01:00 - [209]
 

Originally by: Tugrath Akers
The statement should have been released before you all went barhopping tonight.

YarrMama
Posted - 2011.07.01 20:03:00 - [210]
 

Originally by: Tutskii
Originally by: Tugrath Akers
The statement should have been released before you all went barhopping tonight.



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