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SilentSkills
Gallente
Tax Evaders Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:40:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: RensPriceChecker2
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow


You want clear statements. Clear statements take a little extra time.
Trebor


Clear statements take no extra time at all. You just write down how things are. Architected, deceiving statements are thoose that take time to come up with to cover what could have been a clear statement instead.


finally someone with a brain

Dex Ironmind
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:42:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Maj Disaster
As I understand it the English statement is ready for release NOW and we are waiting for a German and Russian translation to be made.

I have never noticed CCP making translated versions of any announcements previously and whilst I can understand that due to the seriousness of the current situation they wish to translate it I see no reason why they cannot release the English version now and follow up with the translations tomorrow.

I'm sure many German and Russian speaking players also speak English as a second language and would like to hear something today too.



Have you ever noticed the two little flags at the bottom of every blog? Smile

Dex was here. Cool

Juno Valchelza
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:44:00 - [123]
 

Hmm... now people are starting to get after the CSM and lumping them in with CCP about communication issues.

After reading a few posts here in this thread, it just made me laugh and sigh. This is eve's player base?

I'm looking forward to the grumbling, complaining, and raging that will fill this forum as the day goes on.

Ad'Hakim Tahous
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:48:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Satallius
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Folks, I am writing from my iPad in a cafe so please excuse my brevity.

The statements will be out as soon as possible. A component of the current rage has been caused by communications errors by CCP, and demanding a rushed out statement is just asking them to repeat that mistake.

You want clear statements. Clear statements take a little extra time. I know you are all anxious to hear the results, but please cut the CSM (and CCP) a little slack here.

Thanks,
Trebor



Really? Please drop the charade Trebor.

"Yes, there will be non-vanity items in Nex store eventually" or
"No, there will not ever be non-vanity items in the Nex store"

How hard is this? Why do you require so much time to express a simple thought, when you know that is what the source of player rage is all about?
No ship spinning, the stupid nex prices, those are just a annoyance. The real player rage didn't start until the possibility of non-vanity items was revealed.
It's a simple yes or no question, and shouldn't require a day or a neatly crafted statement to answer.

This is a YES OR NO question, it isn't some political speech. How about you actually answer the question that you know is in the minds of all those players who are angry with CCP? It should be simple. Yes or no?



THIS!!!!

Whatever his intention in tweeting from a f***ing cafe it gives the impression that we get to respond as "A" or "B":

A = Tool
B = Fool


Govinda Sertan
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:49:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Juno Valchelza
Hmm... now people are starting to get after the CSM and lumping them in with CCP about communication issues.

After reading a few posts here in this thread, it just made me laugh and sigh. This is eve's player base?

I'm looking forward to the grumbling, complaining, and raging that will fill this forum as the day goes on.


Most useless post of the thread.

Thank you for trying.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:51:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Folks, I am writing from my iPad in a cafe so please excuse my brevity.

The statements will be out as soon as possible. A component of the current rage has been caused by communications errors by CCP, and demanding a rushed out statement is just asking them to repeat that mistake.

You want clear statements. Clear statements take a little extra time. I know you are all anxious to hear the results, but please cut the CSM (and CCP) a little slack here.

Thanks,
Trebor


The truth takes more time to tell than lies?

It does for my 12 y/o anyway.

Maj Disaster
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:51:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Dex Ironmind
Originally by: Maj Disaster
As I understand it the English statement is ready for release NOW and we are waiting for a German and Russian translation to be made.

I have never noticed CCP making translated versions of any announcements previously and whilst I can understand that due to the seriousness of the current situation they wish to translate it I see no reason why they cannot release the English version now and follow up with the translations tomorrow.

I'm sure many German and Russian speaking players also speak English as a second language and would like to hear something today too.



Have you ever noticed the two little flags at the bottom of every blog? Smile

Dex was here. Cool


Fair enough Dex, I did say I "hadn't noticed" Laughing

My point still stands that many of the target audience for the translations would prefer to hear "something" today even if they had to wait an extra day for the translation to thier primary language...

(waits to be slapped down on that point too... in Russian Razz )

Tutskii
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:52:00 - [128]
 

Funny, I am typing this from my Iphone and the on screen keyboard does seem to have the proper keys to type "Yes" and "no"

Maybe Trebor got a defective one.

Protip: if you turn it 90 degrees you get a different keyboard with the keys in different places.

Maybe the y e s or n o touchscreen spaces work on that one.

Caroliana
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:54:00 - [129]
 

CCP_OhWell CCP OhWell
PR and Legal departments are translating the statement as I type. #tweetfleet #eveonline
13 minutes ago

Clavian Voi
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:55:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: Clavian Voi on 01/07/2011 19:04:32
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
The statements will be out as soon as possible. A component of the current rage has been caused by communications errors by CCP, and demanding a rushed out statement is just asking them to repeat that mistake.


You see, Trebor, this is why we don't trust you and why so many people are referring to the CSM as a joke. You're either intentionally misrepresenting the entire situation or truly are clueless about how the community actually feels. So let's clarify it: We're not ****ed off because CCP failed to clearly communicate its plans for EVE to us. On the contrary, we have a very clear understanding of where CCP is headed and have already seen part of it with our own eyes with the release of Incarna.

Sorry, Trebor, but this is not just a big misunderstanding. Not by a long shot. A very significant portion of EVE players are fundamentally opposed to where CCP wants to take EVE, and we have no intention of being fleeced to pay for it. CCP's behavior has been appalling, if not entirely unexpected. But the response of the CSM has been slow, disorganized, and generally somewhat clueless. Many of us had hoped that would not be the case.

Unfortunately, the general consensus is that the CSM members have become willing participants in CCP's MT-fuelled dog and pony show. So no, we don't trust you. And no, your big 'joint statement' is not going to be taken at face value. It's going to be treated with the same skepticism with which many players have now learned to treat everything produced by CCP.

Communication is not the heart of the problem here, ideas are. But a little less frat boy partying and a little more attention to effective communication with the community might have done wonders to change the perception of the CSM. The community's united response over the last week provided you and your fellow CSM members with a golden opportunity to finally push for a serious revision of CCP's long-term development roadmap and a return to EVE's core focus. Instead, we've seen little more than stalling and bragging about hangovers and partying with the devs.

Come back and see us when you have something of substance to share. Hopefully, that will include full minutes so that we can make up our own minds about what's going on, minus the PR spin.

Eclorc
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:55:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Caroliana
CCP_OhWell CCP OhWell
PR and Legal departments are translating the statement as I type. #tweetfleet #eveonline
13 minutes ago


fake "dev".

tho... perhaps psychic

Reyold Bengali
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:56:00 - [132]
 

Edited by: Reyold Bengali on 01/07/2011 18:58:35
Edited by: Reyold Bengali on 01/07/2011 18:57:37
Originally by: Imryn Xaran
Originally by: Hunter Verdeen
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Folks, I am writing from my iPad in a cafe so please excuse my brevity.

The statements will be out as soon as possible. A component of the current rage has been caused by communications errors by CCP, and demanding a rushed out statement is just asking them to repeat that mistake.

You want clear statements. Clear statements take a little extra time. I know you are all anxious to hear the results, but please cut the CSM (and CCP) a little slack here.

Thanks,
Trebor

Umm no at his point there will be no slack or at least not more than needed for you to properly hang yourself. In truth it does not take time to make an honest factual statement on what has transpired. It takes time to write something skirting around that which while true you may not want revealed because of the reaction it may cause. The longer it takes for a statement to be made the worse it is going to look and the more people will pick it apart. Enough is enough here and I am tired of all the speculating and bull make a statement on what you know already. Address the major issues at hand and if needed say there will be a more complete and encompassing statement made later. This way folks can go ahead and get on with things instead of waiting to hear the one thing that will influence how they continue or not in the game.


"the one thing that will influence how they continue or not in the game"

And you really wonder why they want to take the time to make sure the statement is as complete and accurate misleading and full of happy horse**** as they can?

Atreus Venom
Gallente
New Eden Hitmen
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:57:00 - [133]
 

i just cant expect too much yeah sure we are expecting this all to be answered from these reports but i honestly see it going like this

Hello all,
We all know you have waited a long time for this. So, I won't delay any longer. ICELAND FREAKIN ROCKS!!!! OMFG WE GOT SO DAMN DRUNK!!!! WOOOOOO!! oh and the other **** we are too hammered to write about.

Sincerely your CSM, CCP, and Justin Bieber

Grimnir
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:57:00 - [134]
 

I am reminded of a childish refrain from my own distant youth:

"Trebor mints are a minty bit stronger! Stick them up you b*m and they last a bit longer."

Sorry but it felt appropriate :)

Chiggy W
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:58:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Clavian Voi
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
The statements will be out as soon as possible. A component of the current rage has been caused by communications errors by CCP, and demanding a rushed out statement is just asking them to repeat that mistake.


You see, Trebor, this is why we don't trust you and why so many people are referring to the CSM as a joke. You're either intentionally misrepresenting the entire situation or truly are clueless about how the community actually feels. So let's clarify it: We're not ****ed off because CCP failed to clearly communicate its plans for EVE to us. On the contrary, we have a very clear understanding of where CCP is headed and have already seen part of it with our own eyes with the release of Incarna.

Sorry, Trebor, but this is not just a big misunderstanding. Not by a long shot. A very significant portion of EVE players are fundamentally opposed to where CCP wants to take EVE, and we have no intention of being fleeced to pay for it. CCP's behavior has been appalling, if not entirely unexpected. But the response of the CSM has been slow, disorganized, and generally somewhat clueless. Many of us had hoped that would not be the case.

Unfortunately, the general consensus is that the CSM members have become willing participants in CCP's MT-fuelled dog and pony show. So no, we don't trust you. And no, your big 'joint statement' is not going to be taken at face value. It's going to be treated with the same skepticism with which many players have now learned to treat everything produced by CCP.

A little less frat boy partying and a little more attention to effective communication with the community might done wonders to change the perception of the CSM. The community's united response over the last week provided you and your fellow CSM members with a golden opportunity to finally push for a serious revision of CCP's long-term development roadmap. Instead, we've seen nothing but stalling and bragging about hangovers and partying with the devs.


This this this this this this this this

Hunter Verdeen
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:58:00 - [136]
 

quote]

"the one thing that will influence how they continue or not in the game"

And you really wonder why they want to take the time to make sure the statement as complete and accurate as they can?


No I wonder why it takes so long to simply say this is what is going on and this is what the future holds. It needs to be done as truthfully as possible and sooner rather than later. It needs to be without and flourishes, rewording, or other sugar coating tactics. It does not take time to tell simple facts it does however take time to spin things to still state the truth but do it in a way that makes it harder to comprehend and perhaps is hidden by what you have and have not said. All anyone wants is the truthful answer to simple questions. This has gone beyond the whys, hows, etc. and the initial statement needs to give a simply answer with more details to come withing the next day or two.

Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:59:00 - [137]
 

I'm starting to get the impression that every time some CSM tweeted about how they were "pleased", they were talking about the hookers and blow CCP provided for them.

Natalie Cerulean
Caldari
Arekin Piggy Bank
Arekin Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:59:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: Caroliana
CCP_OhWell CCP OhWell
PR and Legal departments are translating the statement as I type. #tweetfleet #eveonline
13 minutes ago


This is not a CCP employee as is ALWAYS stated when this guy tweets. TBQH CCP should request twitter change his name as he ALWAYS posts stuff like this.

Myfanwy Heimdal
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:01:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Silas Cooper
Originally by: Eclorc
Taking bets that the translators only work weekdays...



Here, free of charge:


yes, we will have pay to win

English only please. Zymurgist


Don't forget:

do , cawn dalu at enilla

Atreus Venom
Gallente
New Eden Hitmen
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:01:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Hunter Verdeen
quote]

"the one thing that will influence how they continue or not in the game"

And you really wonder why they want to take the time to make sure the statement as complete and accurate as they can?


No I wonder why it takes so long to simply say this is what is going on and this is what the future holds. It needs to be done as truthfully as possible and sooner rather than later. It needs to be without and flourishes, rewording, or other sugar coating tactics. It does not take time to tell simple facts it does however take time to spin things to still state the truth but do it in a way that makes it harder to comprehend and perhaps is hidden by what you have and have not said. All anyone wants is the truthful answer to simple questions. This has gone beyond the whys, hows, etc. and the initial statement needs to give a simply answer with more details to come withing the next day or two.


it does when your scared of losing your player base or having more protests in game which i think there should be a ton more out there

YarrMama
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:01:00 - [141]
 

Edited by: YarrMama on 01/07/2011 19:02:49
Originally by: Llambda
I'm starting to get the impression that every time some CSM tweeted about how they were "pleased", they were talking about the hookers and blow CCP provided for them.


And the free iPads and cafe coupons.Very Happy

Eclorc
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:02:00 - [142]
 

cba to find the "what would surprise you" thread in order to necro it...

I will be very surprised if we dont get something like this:

""
Hey folks, before we get to the answer, we need to show just how neat these ideas are gonna be...
(insert loads of positive reinforcement type programming here)
So the answer to the yellow question is "yes but only these types of non-vanity MT".
Isn't it great guys?

...... guys??
""

Caroliana
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:02:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Eclorc
Originally by: Caroliana
CCP_OhWell CCP OhWell
PR and Legal departments are translating the statement as I type. #tweetfleet #eveonline
13 minutes ago


fake "dev".

tho... perhaps psychic



LOL yeah I just looked at their twitter profile. Comical to see some of the past tweets.
http://twitter.com/#!/CCP_OhWell

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:04:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Meeogi
The truth is always simple...short..and blunt.

"statements that take days" usually mean word play, spin, and lies.



Yup I have been giving my stuff to my corp mates and clearing out my stockpiles before i log off. Cause its all a load of crap.

Imryn Xaran
Caldari
Coherent Light Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:05:00 - [145]
 

If anyone here thinks there is going to be a simple yes / no answer to any of this they are delusional.

CCP need to explain very very clearly what they are planning for the near future, and also give us a general idea where they think they will go beyond that. That requires very careful wording, considering their statement will be placed under a microscope, and any percieved deviation in the future will be pounced by the angry mob.

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:07:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Chiggy W
Originally by: Clavian Voi
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
The statements will be out as soon as possible. A component of the current rage has been caused by communications errors by CCP, and demanding a rushed out statement is just asking them to repeat that mistake.


You see, Trebor, this is why we don't trust you and why so many people are referring to the CSM as a joke. You're either intentionally misrepresenting the entire situation or truly are clueless about how the community actually feels. So let's clarify it: We're not ****ed off because CCP failed to clearly communicate its plans for EVE to us. On the contrary, we have a very clear understanding of where CCP is headed and have already seen part of it with our own eyes with the release of Incarna.

Sorry, Trebor, but this is not just a big misunderstanding. Not by a long shot. A very significant portion of EVE players are fundamentally opposed to where CCP wants to take EVE, and we have no intention of being fleeced to pay for it. CCP's behavior has been appalling, if not entirely unexpected. But the response of the CSM has been slow, disorganized, and generally somewhat clueless. Many of us had hoped that would not be the case.

Unfortunately, the general consensus is that the CSM members have become willing participants in CCP's MT-fuelled dog and pony show. So no, we don't trust you. And no, your big 'joint statement' is not going to be taken at face value. It's going to be treated with the same skepticism with which many players have now learned to treat everything produced by CCP.

A little less frat boy partying and a little more attention to effective communication with the community might done wonders to change the perception of the CSM. The community's united response over the last week provided you and your fellow CSM members with a golden opportunity to finally push for a serious revision of CCP's long-term development roadmap. Instead, we've seen nothing but stalling and bragging about hangovers and partying with the devs.


This this this this this this this this


Yes this!

Caroliana
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:07:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: RougeOperator
Originally by: Meeogi
The truth is always simple...short..and blunt.

"statements that take days" usually mean word play, spin, and lies.



Yup I have been giving my stuff to my corp mates and clearing out my stockpiles before i log off. Cause its all a load of crap.


One guy on the forums last week announced he was giving away everything and what system to go to.

Was kind of cool... He gave away 10-20 mil to pretty much all 70 people in local then starting randomly handing out BPO's. Drake BPO, Hurricane BPO, among many others.

Ein Spiegel
Minmatar
Fly-by-Night Industries LLC PTY LTD
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:07:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Folks, I am writing from my iPad in a cafe so please excuse my brevity.

The statements will be out as soon as possible. A component of the current rage has been caused by communications errors by CCP, and demanding a rushed out statement is just asking them to repeat that mistake.

You want clear statements. Clear statements take a little extra time. I know you are all anxious to hear the results, but please cut the CSM (and CCP) a little slack here.

Thanks,
Trebor


The truth takes more time to tell than lies?

It does for my 12 y/o anyway.


The truth always takes more time to tell than lies. Lies go together well, because everything works when you make it all up.

The truth is messy, easily misunderstood, makes no sense, and in order to get it right, takes longer. Because if you don't include the entire truth, then you are in fact lying by omission, which means you're lying.

This, actually, is why a politician always lies. They never tell the entire truth, even if they know it, and even if they have a passing knowledge of what truth even is.

I mean, yeah, sure... you could get a devblog like this:

"To answer the question... NO!!! To answer the other question... YES!!! To answer the last question... MAYBE!!!"

But that tells you absolutely ****. They're taking the time to get ALL the answers, get them ALL right (because, y'know, it's not like they haven't already had their previous statements dismantled semantically and run through a ringer to determine what they REALLY mean), and to make it so you can't possibly misunderstand them. (Although, knowing how people read, I guarantee you that last one is a lost cause.)

Plus, it's after hours in Iceland. While we might "power through" to get the message out, they probably have some kind of labor laws that prevent Mittens from whipping Hilmar until he bleeds to get him to personally stand over the video and copy editors while screaming "NO BREAK! NO HOME! WORK LIKE SLAVES! THE PLAYERS MUST HAVE THIS YESTERDAY!" with Zinfandel occasionally piping in a "SILENCE!!! .... SPEAK!!!"

Besides, another day isn't going to kill you. You accept worse crap from your bank, your job, your kids, your family, and your government. Why hold CCP to a higher standard than even the Pope?

(And now, fifteen posts to declare me a CCP alt/fanboi. And who knows. Maybe I'm John Turbefield in disguise... or maybe not.)

YarrMama
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:09:00 - [149]
 

Edited by: YarrMama on 01/07/2011 19:09:49
Ein Spiegel = CCP alt/fanboi!!!

What # am I?

Ragnar Foulberg
Posted - 2011.07.01 19:09:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Clavian Voi
You see, Trebor, this is why we don't trust you and why so many people are referring to the CSM as a joke. You're either intentionally misrepresenting the entire situation or truly are clueless about how the community actually feels. So let's clarify it: We're not ****ed off because CCP failed to clearly communicate its plans for EVE to us. On the contrary, we have a very clear understanding of where CCP is headed and have already seen part of it with our own eyes with the release of Incarna.

Sorry, Trebor, but this is not just a big misunderstanding. Not by a long shot. A very significant portion of EVE players are fundamentally opposed to where CCP wants to take EVE, and we have no intention of being fleeced to pay for it. CCP's behavior has been appalling, if not entirely unexpected. But the response of the CSM has been slow, disorganized, and generally somewhat clueless. Many of us had hoped that would not be the case.

Unfortunately, the general consensus is that the CSM members have become willing participants in CCP's MT-fuelled dog and pony show. So no, we don't trust you. And no, your big 'joint statement' is not going to be taken at face value. It's going to be treated with the same skepticism with which many players have now learned to treat everything produced by CCP.

Communication is not the heart of the problem here, ideas are. But a little less frat boy partying and a little more attention to effective communication with the community might have done wonders to change the perception of the CSM. The community's united response over the last week provided you and your fellow CSM members with a golden opportunity to finally push for a serious revision of CCP's long-term development roadmap and a return to EVE's core focus. Instead, we've seen little more than stalling and bragging about hangovers and partying with the devs.

Come back and see us when you have something of substance to share. Hopefully, that will include full minutes so that we can make up our own minds about what's going on, minus the PR spin.


Now THIS is how you tell it like it is! +1

CSM needs to watch and learn.


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