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shady trader
Posted - 2011.07.01 13:09:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Discrodia
I predict so much spin that if you grabbed that statement you would take off like a helicopter.


I would not mind this so much as long as we get a free gearbox that we can connect their statement to our ships (when in station) with so they spinRazz

Cordran Li
Posted - 2011.07.01 13:10:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Xenomorphea
Originally by: San Severina
Originally by: Xenomorphea
Originally by: raker

Well, the talks are over and now we wait for a statement

Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
OK, we've thrashed something out, and are working on draft CCP and CSM statements. It will clear many things up. #csm6 #tweetfleet
40 minutes ago


= some things (possibly the relvant ones) will NOT be cleared up.
Honestly, is it necessary to "work on a statement" to answer a simple question with "yes" or "no"?

Guys, I believe we are screwed ...


lol - you just working that out now?Cool


No, but I was still clinging to a tiny thread of hope ...

-Xeno


It's like watching fox news in this forum

Vain Eldritch
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.07.01 13:11:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Xenomorphea
No, but I was still clinging to a tiny thread of hope ...

-Xeno


This is what humanity does every day.

Zagam
Posted - 2011.07.01 13:16:00 - [34]
 

Couple of items:

For the poster that wants people fired... What would that do, except create more communication issues?

For the posters that want a simple "yes or no"... ITS NOT THAT EASY. Very few things in the business or gaming world are a simple yes/no. Its shades of gray and interpretation. A simple yes/no would actually end up causing more issues than a concise answer that will take some time to craft.

For those who want answers RIGHT NOW... Really? What diff will it make? How about you get up from your computer, and walk outside? I hear there is a great game out there called Reality Offline for you to enjoy.

And to all the emo rage people... I thought you quit already....

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.07.01 13:20:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Slade Trillgon
I wish I had been around in the beginning so I could truly understand the rage, but I have been around long enough to see where some people are coming from. It can always be painful to see one's hobby dismantled from within, but that is how life works. As this continues to unfold I become ever closer to not renewing my sub. With a child on the way I can more then justify this move.

If I make the move to stop training, I will leave with the thoughts of returning and seeing what has come of the game sometime in the future.


Slade



What it all boils down to pretty much:
* EVE used to be about :spaceships:, last three years it rarely has
* Devs used keep an open dialogue with players, not the defualt stance that is 'don't talk' like it is now
* Devs were also active on forums, was very much a 'family' feeling

In comparison, in recent years:
- development has been about non-spaceship nonsense
- Devs have not communicated with players, and in many cases outright demand their staff to be quiet. They also banned players (eh?) that posted non-critical internal information. Basicly, outright classic fascism, like you can see by dictators, fascists, ****s etc. Admittedly, some corporate structure is like this, but it's "new" to EVE.
- repeatedly we seen devs post that they are not active on forums, as, supposedly, it just ends up 'bad'

Basicly what it all boils down to is a completely change in attitude. Suddenly CCP is elitists, players are a nuissance, and the ironic thing is that all misunderstandings between CCP/players, started when CCP stopped talking to us. If they had kept communicating with us, we wouldn't be mad, there would be less misunderstandings, and instead of having GAMEBREAKING CHANGES, we'd get prepared (and CCP could grab some feedback pre-release). Now they just have to tip-toe around and hope the rage is directed at someone else.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.07.01 13:23:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
I wish I had been around in the beginning so I could truly understand the rage, but I have been around long enough to see where some people are coming from. It can always be painful to see one's hobby dismantled from within, but that is how life works. As this continues to unfold I become ever closer to not renewing my sub. With a child on the way I can more then justify this move.

If I make the move to stop training, I will leave with the thoughts of returning and seeing what has come of the game sometime in the future.


Slade



What it all boils down to pretty much:
* EVE used to be about :spaceships:, last three years it rarely has
* Devs used keep an open dialogue with players, not the defualt stance that is 'don't talk' like it is now
* Devs were also active on forums, was very much a 'family' feeling

In comparison, in recent years:
- development has been about non-spaceship nonsense
- Devs have not communicated with players, and in many cases outright demand their staff to be quiet. They also banned players (eh?) that posted non-critical internal information. Basicly, outright classic fascism, like you can see by dictators, fascists, ****s etc. Admittedly, some corporate structure is like this, but it's "new" to EVE.
- repeatedly we seen devs post that they are not active on forums, as, supposedly, it just ends up 'bad'

Basicly what it all boils down to is a completely change in attitude. Suddenly CCP is elitists, players are a nuissance, and the ironic thing is that all misunderstandings between CCP/players, started when CCP stopped talking to us. If they had kept communicating with us, we wouldn't be mad, there would be less misunderstandings, and instead of having GAMEBREAKING CHANGES, we'd get prepared (and CCP could grab some feedback pre-release). Now they just have to tip-toe around and hope the rage is directed at someone else.


So yeah, TL;DR - CCP, start talk to players again. Srsly. It's that simple.

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.07.01 13:23:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Vandrion on 01/07/2011 13:27:10
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Alpine 69




Would you really drink beer that someone ****ed out?


From a cute puppy, sure. I love beer, and prices for them at my local bars have passed the $5+ mark years ago. Alot better to drink the ****y light lagers at home.. if a puppy delivered some quality, I'd hook up a hose right away.


You're one of those guys that take the sheep to the edge of cliff for the extra push back aren't you?

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.07.01 13:36:00 - [38]
 

If they make a stament about communication Im going to puke.

Well just "internet puke", which is really just bit ching but you get the point.

raker
Posted - 2011.07.01 14:06:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
If they make a stament about communication Im going to puke.



You better get the bucket ready Laughing

Zleon Leigh
Posted - 2011.07.01 14:13:00 - [40]
 

Stocking ammo and gank ships in Jita, Rens, Amarr, and Dodixie

Clavian Voi
Posted - 2011.07.01 14:35:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Kirkland Langue
They've issued LOTS of statements - and all of the Statements have boiled down to this:
"CCP messed up and needs to do a better job communicating with the Players"

If that's the stance our wondrous CSM has going into the talks - what are the odds that they are actually going to come out with a view more approximating reality?


That's a good question and I think it would be wise to view any statement that comes out of this meeting with a healthy dose of skepticism. The tweets and posts by some of the CSM members make it clear they're more interested in drinking with their buddies and dev bromance than actually representing the players.

At this point I don't care what kind of joint statement they release, I'm going to remain skeptical and may still end up unsubbing. CCP has proved time and again over the last two years that they can't be trusted. And anyone who trusted the CSM members in the first place is a fool.

The CSM was not needed to clear up these issues because CCP already understood exactly how the players felt! The CSM has not "thrashed out" anything with CCP, regardless of whatever propaganda statement they release in the next 24 hours. CCP knew exactly what they were going to do prior to the arrival of the CSM and anyone who doubts that needs a reality check. The CSM was flown to Iceland to do exactly what they're currently doing: help CCP draft a PR release that will diffuse the situation, halt the protests, and permit CCP to do exactly what they were going to do in the first place. Of course, they'll now do it in iterations to keep the discontent from boiling over, but they will go forward as planned. They'll make a few small concessions to make this CSM meeting look as if it actually meant something, but in the end CCP is ABSOLUTELY NOT going to alter their long-term development roadmap as a result of anything that has happened in the last week.

Hope I'm wrong. But I'm not.

raker
Posted - 2011.07.01 14:43:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Clavian Voi


The CSM was not needed to clear up these issues because CCP already understood exactly how the players felt! The CSM has not "thrashed out" anything with CCP, regardless of whatever propaganda statement they release in the next 24 hours. CCP knew exactly what they were going to do prior to the arrival of the CSM and anyone who doubts that needs a reality check. The CSM was flown to Iceland to do exactly what they're currently doing: help CCP draft a PR release that will diffuse the situation, halt the protests, and permit CCP to do exactly what they were going to do in the first place. Of course, they'll now do it in iterations to keep the discontent from boiling over, but they will go forward as planned. They'll make a few small concessions to make this CSM meeting look as if it actually meant something, but in the end CCP is ABSOLUTELY NOT going to alter their long-term development roadmap as a result of anything that has happened in the last week.



I feel this sums it up very well, as I have said in another thread, we need to be realistic about the outcome of this meeting

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.01 14:46:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: raker
Originally by: Ghoest
If they make a stament about communication Im going to puke.



You better get the bucket ready Laughing


I think the communication is actually loud and clear. Its just that the players don't like to hear CCP will no longer work on the in space part of eve and only do more BS and incarnatransactions.

The last few expansions sucked and the future expansions will likely just add more mt for incarnatransactions and therefore suck as well. How many years do we need to wait for another proper in space expansion?

Anon Forumalt6858
Posted - 2011.07.01 14:48:00 - [44]
 

yeah, Trebor is a CCP shill. The other CSM's give us honest opinions on the events and Trebor blows smoke up our asses. Please don't give him your votes again.

Elrica bloodbane
Posted - 2011.07.01 14:49:00 - [45]
 

ONE QUESTION. DO WE GET FREE LUBE

xNEWxTROLLxHEREx
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.07.01 14:50:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Anon Forumalt6858
yeah, Trebor is a CCP shill. The other CSM's give us honest opinions on the events and Trebor blows smoke up our asses. Please don't give him your votes again.


+1

@Trebor_CSM
Robert Woodhead
Very frank and serious discussion going on. #csm6 #tweetfleet

khalleth Tom Russell
@
@Trebor_CSM Might as well say "Some people are talking. Some people are responding. Things are being said." Really? Didnt know that.

ugh

Sarah De'Ath
Posted - 2011.07.01 14:51:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Snake Scofield
I predict rage.

CSM's could come home with a dog that poops rainbows and the mob would still have a spasm.


Now that would be worth $80. So MUCH better that a m0n0cle, would prolly also do some funky party tricks...Smile

Rayna Ravenoff
Posted - 2011.07.01 14:53:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Alpine 69
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Snake Scofield
I predict rage.

CSM's could come home with a dog that poops rainbows and the mob would still have a spasm.


After what CCP have done to this game the last couple of years, yeah, pretty much. We'd need a cute puppie that poops rainbows and ****es beer.


Would you really drink beer that someone ****ed out?


From a cute puppy, sure. I love beer, and prices for them at my local bars have passed the $5+ mark years ago. Alot better to drink the ****y light lagers at home.. if a puppy delivered some quality, I'd hook up a hose right away.


Let me get this straight...

You would ferment beer in a puppy then hook up a keg to his wee-wee and pump out beer to drink?

Wow!!! That is so wrong on so many levels...

Kirkland Langue
Posted - 2011.07.01 14:54:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Anon Forumalt6858
yeah, Trebor is a CCP shill. The other CSM's give us honest opinions on the events and Trebor blows smoke up our asses. Please don't give him your votes again.


votes? like it matters. Who counts the votes here? CCP. Who actually vets the candidates in the first place? CCP. Pretty sure that CCP can come up with whatever election results they want, and they've already shown that they don't give a rat's ass about how Players might feel.

Besides, I'm pretty sure that one has to be actively subscribed to vote - and if you are still actively subscribed at that time, then you've already voted with the only ballot that matters.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.07.01 15:00:00 - [50]
 

the worst ones to me are where the game is designed to purposefully withold conveniences like extra ship fittings with the hope that you will pay more $ for the convennience.

In a free to play game, yeah, you have limmited for free, then for a flat premium you get the full amount availble.

Maybe 50 is a bunch but many would use them up.

Myfanwy Heimdal
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.01 15:04:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Dirk Smacker
I predict somebody will oppose whatever happens on the internet.


I disagree.

Fellblade
Posted - 2011.07.01 15:07:00 - [52]
 

I'm glad I don't live in the world which some people seem to occupy; where every ray of hope is a gigawatt death-beam.

Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.07.01 15:08:00 - [53]
 

Quote:
Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
We just got a first look at a work-in-progress of Time Dilation. Nice. #csm6 #tweetfleet



You've got to be ****tin' me.

R'Onin
Amarr
Eden Tech
Posted - 2011.07.01 15:36:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Llambda
Quote:
Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
We just got a first look at a work-in-progress of Time Dilation. Nice. #csm6 #tweetfleet



You've got to be ****tin' me.


Matrix meets eve :P

SilentSkills
Gallente
Tax Evaders Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.01 15:45:00 - [55]
 

expect to be disappointed.
I hope you didn't sell your Disco Ships, we going clubbin' @ Jita's statue tonight most likely

Henrica Gaufridus
Posted - 2011.07.01 15:51:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Cordran Li


It's like watching fox news in this forum


Why, are we blaming Obama for this now?

Kith Kanann
Minmatar
Pator Tech Corp
Posted - 2011.07.01 15:52:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Llambda
Quote:
Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
We just got a first look at a work-in-progress of Time Dilation. Nice. #csm6 #tweetfleet



You've got to be ****tin' me.



Glad the CSM are staying focused on the issues at hand...

Cordran Li
Posted - 2011.07.01 15:52:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Henrica Gaufridus
Originally by: Cordran Li


It's like watching fox news in this forum


Why, are we blaming Obama for this now?


I am

Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
Posted - 2011.07.01 15:54:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Llambda
Preeeetty sure CCP employed the baffle them with bull**** strategy, and it worked.


Of course CCP employed the strategy, didn't you read the csm twitters/blogs, it was like a college frat party over there. The only thing that was probably missing was the sheep an roofies ...

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.07.01 16:02:00 - [60]
 

meh

If the Developers were to put up a blog saying "We are incapable of meeting our product deadlines because were underqualified codehacks whos skills are a miniscule fraction of our egoes, and we drink too mutch by any standard, but have decided in spite of this to continue to overpromise and not deliver becase we feel we have to for whatever reason"

I would still not belive them.

Honestly I gave up on the Dev staff years ago. I found that If I Ignore what they say and just go by what they actualy end up doing I enjoy the game more.


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