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blankseplocked The chasm between Player and CCP, what made you lose faith in CCP?
 
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Lakuma
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:12:00 - [61]
 

I love EVE and still play, though between my friend and I there are four less accounts subbed after Incarna. This isn't entirely due to the whole fiasco surrounding the leaks and such - we saw CQ and both responded with "This looks neat" followed by "That's it?"

I've seen some pretty worthless expansions on games...this one takes the cake by a long shot. Never have I seen an expansion, even mini-expansions like EVE, further broken down to patches as they are now, have so little content. The NPE was meant to be a focus, yes, and I think CCP is on the right track - but several key flaws came with Incarna:

1) NEX shouldn't have been released on Incarna 1.0 - the items have virtually no value because only YOU can see them. This should have waited to WiS with other people where you can 'show off' your wealth. I personally have no intent using NEX anytime soon since I lack funds and would rather lose a couple hundred rifters fighting first - but the concept stands.

2) Content for ALL PLAYERS. NPE is very important but CCP has time and again for several expansions now failed to provide really solid NEW OR OLD working content. Incursions came off ok, I'll give them that. But many old features need love that could be INCREDIBLE (like FW or better sov mechanics or POS MISERY). On top of that they created super-carriers and actually DEGRADED the part of EVE that DRAWS NEW PLAYERS - alliance warfare and 'the big dramas'.

3) The shoddy condition of Incarna's first patch: I load CQ perfectly fine on a very wiz-bang computer, my friend doesn't. The Door - need I say more? The incredible stress it has caused on lower end computers and multi-boxers (a major part of EVE's success mind you).

So yeah, I've lost faith in CCP. For my buddy and I (the others don't multi-box), we're giving them until the end of the year. I love EVE, but it's getting to the point that if my subscription isn't going to actually 'develop' the game I'm paying for, why am I paying for it? As awful as WoW Cataclysm is - at least Blizzard uses my money to make new content. Same for any other MMO out there - hell F2P Games with sub models add content.

The winter 'expansion' (i.e. random patches) had best have real, usable content that benefits the game of EVE Online - preferably by FIXING not adding - otherwise I suspect many veterans and not-so-veterans will leave the game simply because it will be obvious they are paying for a game that isn't developing.

Dante Marcellus
Minmatar
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:13:00 - [62]
 

You mean the rift between incessantly whining players, that choose to ignore facts and keep head-strong and stubborn while the game continues to move forward anyway. My hope is that these players either "wake up" or quit.

This is not just a spaceship game.

You are not clothed within your POD.

You need to throw away the 486.

The door is, quite literally, your only option, if you intend to keep living in the past.

MT is good, in that it will give people with stupid amounts of real life cash more ways to donate to CCP game development (whether it be EVE, Dust or WoD - all games I will most likely have a hand in).

CCP is a business.

You're short-sighted and I pray you never own your own business and/or apply for a job at CCP.

Your fixes to the game that you cry about (simply because all of the above points are becoming pretty moot) are going to come, as it has been stated by CCP themselves, even though a whole bunch of people probably couldn't care less about 0.0.

And for the OP grasping at straws, please don't make anymore topics. There will come a boiling point, when one forum can no longer handle the bitter failscade and soon we'll have an even bigger cesspool of false information, idiot trolls and more tears than you can soak up in a decade's time.

Kitsune Tsuki
Amarr
L'Opaline
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:15:00 - [63]
 

Personally, I haven't lost faith at all, but I can nevertheless empathize with long-term players who feel slighted/betrayed/simply ignored by CCP. What's a real turn-off to me is the lack of readiness to accept differing perspectives among the player base itself; there's nearly as much partisan venom here as in U.S. domestic politics...

Lakuma
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:22:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Dante Marcellus
You mean the rift between incessantly whining players, that choose to ignore facts and keep head-strong and stubborn while the game continues to move forward anyway. My hope is that these players either "wake up" or quit.

This is not just a spaceship game.

You are not clothed within your POD.

You need to throw away the 486.

The door is, quite literally, your only option, if you intend to keep living in the past.

MT is good, in that it will give people with stupid amounts of real life cash more ways to donate to CCP game development (whether it be EVE, Dust or WoD - all games I will most likely have a hand in).

CCP is a business.

You're short-sighted and I pray you never own your own business and/or apply for a job at CCP.

Your fixes to the game that you cry about (simply because all of the above points are becoming pretty moot) are going to come, as it has been stated by CCP themselves, even though a whole bunch of people probably couldn't care less about 0.0.

And for the OP grasping at straws, please don't make anymore topics. There will come a boiling point, when one forum can no longer handle the bitter failscade and soon we'll have an even bigger cesspool of false information, idiot trolls and more tears than you can soak up in a decade's time.



I'm all for CCP's vision of the ultimate sci-fi game. Can you imagine how cool it would be if EVE Online, ten years from now, has a fully fleshed avatar-based RPG game that is the SAME UNIVERSE as the current spaceship environment? The scale is tremendous - and obviously impressive. What's cool is it is very doable - Incarna proves that, more or less.

The point is that EVE is suffering in its development for two other games - which will be fine I suppose, I'm hopeful for DUST but I'm not betting on WoD to be very successful. The failure is not in CCP's vision for EVE, but in their ability to maintain that vision and deliver on it.

Can't have an incredible sci-fi game if the original major features are broken or severely flawed (which they are). But think of it this way - if CCP kept developing towards Incarna, as in that RPG environment of Avatars, what happens to EVE's spaceships? Nothing - they stay the same.

So answer me this - would you rather have a sci-fi avatar-based RPG (which by the way most MMO's out there already do) or see the unique and successful (can we say only successful?) spaceship-based MMO develop further?

Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:25:00 - [65]
 

T20 scandal did it for me.

As OP said "Simply put, players don't trust CCP to treat EVE Online with the care it deserves based on dismal past performance.".

No amount of talking will change that, since someone wise once said: We will look at what they do, not what they sayWink

Dante Marcellus
Minmatar
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:29:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Lakuma
Originally by: Dante Marcellus
You mean the rift between incessantly whining players, that choose to ignore facts and keep head-strong and stubborn while the game continues to move forward anyway. My hope is that these players either "wake up" or quit.

This is not just a spaceship game.

You are not clothed within your POD.

You need to throw away the 486.

The door is, quite literally, your only option, if you intend to keep living in the past.

MT is good, in that it will give people with stupid amounts of real life cash more ways to donate to CCP game development (whether it be EVE, Dust or WoD - all games I will most likely have a hand in).

CCP is a business.

You're short-sighted and I pray you never own your own business and/or apply for a job at CCP.

Your fixes to the game that you cry about (simply because all of the above points are becoming pretty moot) are going to come, as it has been stated by CCP themselves, even though a whole bunch of people probably couldn't care less about 0.0.

And for the OP grasping at straws, please don't make anymore topics. There will come a boiling point, when one forum can no longer handle the bitter failscade and soon we'll have an even bigger cesspool of false information, idiot trolls and more tears than you can soak up in a decade's time.



I'm all for CCP's vision of the ultimate sci-fi game. Can you imagine how cool it would be if EVE Online, ten years from now, has a fully fleshed avatar-based RPG game that is the SAME UNIVERSE as the current spaceship environment? The scale is tremendous - and obviously impressive. What's cool is it is very doable - Incarna proves that, more or less.

The point is that EVE is suffering in its development for two other games - which will be fine I suppose, I'm hopeful for DUST but I'm not betting on WoD to be very successful. The failure is not in CCP's vision for EVE, but in their ability to maintain that vision and deliver on it.

Can't have an incredible sci-fi game if the original major features are broken or severely flawed (which they are). But think of it this way - if CCP kept developing towards Incarna, as in that RPG environment of Avatars, what happens to EVE's spaceships? Nothing - they stay the same.

So answer me this - would you rather have a sci-fi avatar-based RPG (which by the way most MMO's out there already do) or see the unique and successful (can we say only successful?) spaceship-based MMO develop further?


The problem with this statement is that EVE has never been solely about spaceships. I really wish CCP would sticky a thread about this. They have stated, in the past, that this is geared to be the ultimate scifi experience.

Incarna is part of that, and we just got part 1.

Not to mention, you're precious spaceships are still here, as are mine.

I don't know about you, but I'm still effing flying them!

Lakuma
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:44:00 - [67]
 

Quote:
The problem with this statement is that EVE has never been solely about spaceships. I really wish CCP would sticky a thread about this. They have stated, in the past, that this is geared to be the ultimate scifi experience. Incarna is part of that, and we just got part 1. Not to mention, you're precious spaceships are still here, as are mine. I don't know about you, but I'm still effing flying them!


You're missing my point - but I'm not renowned for explanations either.

Incarna Ideology - Good.
Spaceships - Good.

Yes they're still there, yes I'm still flying them. No I'm not saying totally drop Incarna - I'm saying finish its initial development then FIX the spaceships.

EX: You have broken down car - you changed out the tires, got the engine more or less working, and the windows now roll down. Then you added fuzzy dice, plush seats, and a hula girl on the dash. What about the a/c? What about a radio? How about an engine that doesn't break every 2000 miles?

My point is that Incarna is an inevitable step in the right direction but at the wrong time. Now we certainly can't roll back, that's foolish and we all know it. CCP needs to 'finish' its initial vision of Incarna (god forbid it takes longer than winter) but then needs to return to spaceships and fix them, not necessarily add to them either - I'm not a 'mor sheepz now!' guy - I just wish more of it worked and was fun. Like I said, major features like sov and FW could be so much better if they were actually worked on.

Finish Incarna, Return and Fix Spaceships to Working Order All Around (no new content except as a fix), Resume inevitable Incarna development and thus, the development of EVE beyond spaceships. If they skip Step 2 and just ignore, or more likely forget, what made EVE what it is, then I'm out of here because I play EVE for the spaceships first and foremost.

I imagine most players do. If the reason they play the game continues to degrade for new content they like, but don't necessarily desire, then the game will slowly collapse - Incarna will not develop fast enough to bolster the player-base with station-happy players. It will eventually, but not in its current or near future state. Best example I can give is Aion - the new expansions was actually pretty good, but the leveling in the main body of the game is so broken that new players won't join and old players burn out because they don't want to make a new toon and grind again. NC's response? More MT's and new top-level content that still doesn't address the original flaws in the game.

You can't transform a brick house into a sky-sc****r if you try to use that original concrete foundation that's only two foot thick. Incarna will not succeed in the long run if the original part of EVE isn't repaired and brought into working order.

Ghengis Tia
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:44:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Dante Marcellus
You mean the rift between incessantly whining players, that choose to ignore facts and keep head-strong and stubborn while the game continues to move forward anyway. My hope is that these players either "wake up" or quit.

This is not just a spaceship game.

You are not clothed within your POD.

You need to throw away the 486.

The door is, quite literally, your only option, if you intend to keep living in the past.

MT is good, in that it will give people with stupid amounts of real life cash more ways to donate to CCP game development (whether it be EVE, Dust or WoD - all games I will most likely have a hand in).

CCP is a business.

You're short-sighted and I pray you never own your own business and/or apply for a job at CCP.

Your fixes to the game that you cry about (simply because all of the above points are becoming pretty moot) are going to come, as it has been stated by CCP themselves, even though a whole bunch of people probably couldn't care less about 0.0.

And for the OP grasping at straws, please don't make anymore topics. There will come a boiling point, when one forum can no longer handle the bitter failscade and soon we'll have an even bigger cesspool of false information, idiot trolls and more tears than you can soak up in a decade's time.



Businesses who put out crap work and live off past accomplishments fail sooner or later, fanboi. By compromising its own standards of performance CCP now comes across as hypocritical and without cogent direction.

Incarna is a PR and performance disaster, so put on as much lipstick on this pig as you want, it is still, and will remain, a pig.

Jack BingKaria
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:49:00 - [69]
 

"the logs show nothing" has nothing to do with ccp, but is a general attitude problem almost all GM's in ANY game have.

They all get told, that the logs will always show anything, almost all game developer are so trusting on their code, that they cant imagine, that something goes wrong.

However: IF something goes wrong, somewhere during a transaction or whatever game action thing, you can bet on it, that often the logs wont show it at all.....
Ofcourse not, if the game would have kept track, you wouldnt have experienced the bug IdeaRolling Eyes

The only thing they can check then sometimes, but what they often are not willing to do, is to compare an older status of a character data with the new one and see what is the difference, but thats often a lot of work and need someone with more tools then the default gm in most games.


jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:50:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Dante Marcellus
The problem with this statement is that EVE has never been solely about spaceships. I really wish CCP would sticky a thread about this. They have stated, in the past, that this is geared to be the ultimate scifi experience. ...



The problem is they took all the actual fun gameplay elements of everything except spaceships and made them exclusively for dust.

Eve has spaceships and walking in stations. Spaceship pew pew and walky walky walky.

Solosky
Posted - 2011.07.12 19:54:00 - [71]
 

CCP is using EVE players as golden egg laying goose for their projects with questionable future leaving EVE underdeveloped - and at the same time players are being used as guinea pigs for CCP's brutal experiments with RMT - with explanation like "don't like this situation - get lost, go play other games".

CCP could start carefully with cheap NeX items - but instead they used shock therapy with multiple fatalities (a.k.a. cancelled alt subscriptions) and their answer was "meh, whatever - we didn't do it".

Miss Star
Dragonian Measures
Posted - 2011.07.12 20:12:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Miss Star on 12/07/2011 20:13:41
i think the first issue is not Incarna, CQ or the MT, but CCP's lack of communication full stop. CCP could get away with so much from the player base if they just talked to us. But there seems to be a current arrogance that the game is theirs and we are just here for the ride. *** NEWS FLASH *** without a player base this game is not going to work.

Even after the CSM meeting, I personally think the the information coming out from CCP on anything is still well below what is needed. In fact, the current "head in the sand" approach is probably upsetting more of the player base as each day goes by. EvE has been a great game for the past years I have played it. CCP and the player base has been close and we've stuck by them thru some hic-ups along the way. But over the past 18 months or so, the closeness has started to break up. Not sure why, is it CCP's venture into other areas has meant a reduction in focus for EvE, or is it a new structure to CCP it's self? Either way, it's not going well, and unless CCP look at this, or the players accept it, we're never going to get the old together feeling again.

I can only talk for myself and I understand it's not the same for all. But I stand by the fact I'm not happy and have ended 2 accounts and this one ends at the end of the month. I'll give it a few months and maybe look at the state of eve then. But if the future doesn't change I will not be back until it's free to play.

And just before I'm asked. No you can't have my stuff, earn it like I did when the game was good. Crying or Very sad

Nian Istaria
Posted - 2011.07.12 20:24:00 - [73]
 

First, for the new generation "i'm epeen chillin on eve take your whinning to the door you mad bro" ..I did, i biomassed 2 characters and on last days of sub.
The reason i did so is CCP's complete contemp for the players and thier unwillingness to fix the game. Rather they try to baffle you with new bull****.The game problems are all listed and don't need to be repeated by me.
What i'm doing in forums is trying to come to grips with the feeling that what made Eve "EVE" was so callously destroyed. Eve as an mmo will continue and be a profitable enterprise but it will never again be the Eve it was. I believe it will become a second home for the type of player most of the older players came here to avoid. I'm sure alot of the old guard have been reading forums and are as astonished as I am at the tone and text of posts.
The post "CCP moved on and its customers didn't." ... +1

Brujo Loco
Amarr
Brujeria Teologica
Posted - 2011.07.12 20:58:00 - [74]
 

it's good to see well thinking people explain verbosely the real issue with CCP that they FAIL so hard to see, as the saying goes, there's no worse blindness than the one belonging to man that doest NOT want to see.

CCP has failed to acknowledge, that there's a portion, no matter how mninuscule they believe, know or perceive it to be, of PEOPLE, real people, with real issues and real concerns regarding this GAME that is more than a game.

As a psychologist I always laugh, and when in the mood, reply to people that shout loudly "BUT THIS IS JUST A GAME" or "Internet Spaceships is srz bsuiness".

Well, guess what, it's SERIOUS BUSINESS. It is, and even if CCP just sees it as a "thing" that can keep giving them money, it doesnt negate the fact PEOPLE, the real people behind the characters, actually CARE, FEEL and INFUSE their "thing" of a GAME with "LIFE".

From the simplest drone minded miner that afk's as he watches a movie to the most convoluted metagamer that tries to destabilize an alliance from within, ALL OF US are PEOPLE, and like people, some of us WILL VOICE their opinions, despite the constant negativity of others to not "listen" <read> what we way.

I include myself in the vocal part of the userbase that decries several simple facts.

For me it goes beyond vanity monocles <which are worthless in my outrage of hate against CCP> or even the CQ or anything that Incarna entails, is the absolute breach of trust from a company that presented itself as concerned for their community but turned out to be corporate <and crappy at that> PR spokefilth that tries to project a feeling of community that doesnt exist from their side.

I even once tried to argument the forums were a bad form to express anything to the upper management or anything at all, but honestly, in the world of the voiceless, LAG and SPAM are our cries.

Wall of texts of incoherent ramblings or perfectly and reasonably crafted arguments are the only real voice.

Wallets do not speak, for Money is a medium not an end. People perceive it as an end, but it fails to reflect the intense need for the oppresed to liberate themselves.

CCP and many others believe that in the end, money is by itself the only real measure of scale, in this Game. Their perception, at least in relation to me is so blatantly opposed that there will never be any form of competent middle ground to even establish a proper way of communication until ccp stops measuring us in terms of a wallet.

Hiding behind the atavistic disguise of a Company in the Business of making money is hiding behind an intolerant barrier of hatred against humanity.

yes, we pay money, but why can't we expect from you something more human? Why do you hide under cleanly sterilized minutes and absolutelt awful PR stunts.

We are not, or to be more precise, I don't believe we are the "typical" MMO community.

Your so called "game" has thrived on a core group of people that thinks beyond simple fun and entertainment bashing orcs and fairies and launching dps efficient magic missiles at dragons that comprise the overwhelmingly MAJORITY of MMO's out there.

We have no levels, spells, grimoires, staves, swords, spike armor and we dont have chainmail bikinis either, we have ships, spreadsheets, economic data, fluctuating mineral prices, political turmoil intragame, metagaming, constantly in flux borders, delineations of territory, pirates, suicide gankers, loss of assets both real and imagined, consumer goods that travel from one side to the galaxy to another via a superbly orchestrated and sometimes serendipity affected network of supply comprised by all kinds of industrial and cargo haulers, we have PEOPLE, we have PEOPLE doing things PEOPLE do.

Why then I ask, you want to measure US like the rest of the MMO community?

Why do you even believe the casual gamer will be enough to support your game in the long run <if even in the short run> enough to give you the money needed to develop not only ONE, but TWO games?

Brujo Loco
Amarr
Brujeria Teologica
Posted - 2011.07.12 20:59:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Brujo Loco on 12/07/2011 21:18:31
Why do you even try to measure us in a scale that doesn't necessarily applies to this COMMUNITY?

Yes, implement alternate ways to generate revenue, yes, expand, but I ask, as a formerly loyal subber, why do all companies pretend to measure everyone into neatly defined standards that today are being torn down by the sheer weight of social evolution?

Have you guys even dared to read people like Alvin Toffler?, have you even bothered to realize, your niche game is just an offset from the mainstream games that has quirks of its own not found in generic MMO's out there?

Why then are you trying to put a boot in our face eternally crushing it for the sake of money and control?

Your game could be so MUCH MORE than this dream concocted by an incredibly naive "team" of your supposed STAFF at CCP.

Yes, from this forum I cry that all your development staff is a bunch of CLOWNS. You are as clownish as any kind of supposed "net gurus" and self proclaimed social networking specialists in the field today.

Why? because the "field" is as young as a 10-12 year old child, and it's like specializing in a behavioral degree for humans by an alien having as a reference just a child from a strange country.

I don't proclaim to hold the truth, but I do proclaim to know that whatever path you are taking is NOT THE ONLY ONE EVE can take.

You reference in your minutes concern and taking the trends of the MMO world as a basis for what is happening in EVE, yes, it's logical.

But if you have such a beatiful <if a bit marred> GAME that has characteristics unknown to most MMO's, why dont you DARE to take a different approach?

This community thrives on Chaos not the Stagnation you are proposing, by cloaking us in the patterns of others, why is it so hard for companies to understand that the generic Movie punchline is a gamble doomed to fail exponentially?

If Aliens was a JAWS in SPACE and Game of Thrones sopranos in Middle Earth, you can only iterate so much out of well received concepts. Don't become the Hollywood Studio of MMO's, be new and assertive, create new venues, become the classic cult film that even years after it has been made still draws a crowd.

You have in your game so MUCH MORE to explore, to develop to further enhance, CQ/Incarna is just a minuscule almost ridiculously low drop of water in the ENGINE you have developed. Why take the obvious path of burdening us as beta testers of another game inside the game we love? I could accept that as long as you kept a REAL CLUTTER FREE vision of EVE instead of trying to extrapolate trends in the market into a game that is from the ground made up for particular people to enjoy?

Someone in another thread came ot this conclusion, why, having the type of people this game enjoys <violent, psychopathic, angst filled, hateful and spiteful, extremely competitive, deceitful <even if only IN GAME and in several shades and tonalities> FORCED to live in a LALA world of banal superficiality with Vanity items that CANNOT BE destroyed for example?

Why do you fail to see so many things this game can be?

I speak for myself alone, and flame and whatnot, honestly I get more insults thrown at me in the streets in Panama driving than a year long flamewar in the forums, but really guys, why from so many paths in the field of development you had to choose that for us?

Answering "money" is like crying hamburguers in a mania induced fit of postal rage that kills everyone in the office.

I need to know from PEOPLE, not from the CSM, from the PEOPLE in the Company what they were thinking.

If I wanted red tape bureaucracy talk thrown at me I could spend a day arguing with a Panamanian Lawyer all day, you all speak utter excrement and yet I fail to see a TALKING HEAD saying this or that. You used to show your faces in videos, why not anymore?

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.07.12 21:19:00 - [76]
 

When they forced me to use CQ, or look at a door.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.07.12 21:27:00 - [77]
 

I lost faith when CCP stated fixing bugs and broken content was a low priority.

Uuali
Posted - 2011.07.13 04:56:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: Uuali on 13/07/2011 04:57:08

I laugh at how in that official response after the CSM meeting CCP claimed not to think players were serious about wanting to keep ship spinning. WTF is the CSM for if you didn't already know that CCP? What else are you completely missing?


Craig Bennett2th
Gallente
Bennett Corp
Posted - 2011.07.13 05:10:00 - [79]
 

What happen with me is I think it is CCP job to keep people entertain giving they are in that business. As far as being happy with CCP, they aren't in the happy business so they are doing just find right there as long as they are doing only legal stuff.

So giving that, I am not being entertain so I stop paying for CCP game and today is my last day. Many people said this is an MMO so other people should entertain you or it is what you make of it giving it is a sandbox. It's not really a sandbox and sandbox are really not that fun in the first place other words second life would be doing great by now instead of having a 2hour player lifespan. As far as MMO, if that was the case I would be watching "reality" (not really) TV. I hate that and I assume most people aren't 100% in that other words they would be more entertain by that so they wouldn't need this.
So giving all that, its a game and as a game it main function should be fun. Ask any kid or random person and this should be one of the first things they say that a game needs to be. You shouldn't force it to be fun.

As far as those who stick around, I am happy for you and that is great. That means CCP is kinda doing their job giving they are kinda keeping some people.

Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.07.13 05:18:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Zey Nadar
Originally by: Ghoest
I didnt like what they did.

But I lost faith because they didnt even see get why it was a problem.



QFFT.

Nikayte Askiras
Posted - 2011.07.13 05:29:00 - [81]
 

No new content, and the terrible customer service provided through the petition system, as well as their disrespectful response regarding MT discussion.

Sha Dar
eXceed Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.13 05:29:00 - [82]
 

I'd like to say it was when the game stopped being THE game and instead became just a cash-cow, but the rot set in well before that.

The T20 incident started it all, when they threw the sop of the csm at the playerbase and it was swallowed... It's been an increasingly slippery slope since then.

they do still have time to pull things round, but with the money men in charge, and arrogance exhuding from the the top level of management, I think it's more likely simply a matter of time before we see the end.

Here's hoping they get their collective **** together, or if not, a half decent replacement is brought out in time for the exodus.

Eyup Mi'duck
Posted - 2011.07.13 06:50:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Long John Silver
It is simple. CCP have moved on from EVE. Their customers haven't.


^ THIS. Things like 'logs show nothing' have always been there. What has changed is the devs attitude towards EVE. They used to think like the players, that EVE was special and they were as excited/committed to it as the players - some even more so. Now, their love has moved on to other things, DUST is their new love.

I think they recognise this now - at least someone does:

Originally by: CCP
EVE is Real
Almost everyone who has played EVE Online has a story, a story that weaves itself into the fabric of our lives and makes EVE real to everyone who experiences it. EVE is more than a game. Join us as we begin to share stories with one another. Read our latest blog about how you can and why you should participate, and then whet your appetite with your new "I Was There" trailer.


I hope this apparently re-incarnated sentiment is genuine and widespread within CCP. Aside from the 'Eve is real' initiative, the impression I get is that CCP's focus has moved on to something new and they have tried to impose this on EVE. They need to realise that EVE IS UNIQUE and needs TLC for its own sake. They need to stop tinkering with it and trying to make it something else! It is already becoming a 'Michael Jackson' of a product, (EVE = MJ, DUST = Diana Ross) and similarly it has become something that just doesn't look or feel right. Let's hope EVE does not develop MJ's confused personality and ultimate, somehow inevitable outcome.

Brujo Loco
Amarr
Brujeria Teologica
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:39:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Sha Dar
I'd like to say it was when the game stopped being THE game and instead became just a cash-cow, but the rot set in well before that.

The T20 incident started it all, when they threw the sop of the csm at the playerbase and it was swallowed... It's been an increasingly slippery slope since then.

they do still have time to pull things round, but with the money men in charge, and arrogance exhuding from the the top level of management, I think it's more likely simply a matter of time before we see the end.

Here's hoping they get their collective **** together, or if not, a half decent replacement is brought out in time for the exodus.



As I have mentioned before, they are so distanced from the game itself, they simply lost focus, the focus of EVE.

They are now assuming this game to be one of their games, and who knows, they might even try to milk us further by offering a Dust/WoD/EVE combo multipass for 39.99$ a month LIKE SOE does.

EVE is just simply another piece of software for them.

Amazing, human behavior is so predictable. No originality left in the World.

Phi Nupe
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:45:00 - [85]
 

Faith? Come now, there appears to be a sickness going around called taking this gaming ish too effing seriously.

If a company makes a good game I'll buy and play it. If they make changes that fundamentally change the game(like scorpians out of thin air bypassing the miners and builders) then I'm gone.

Its really that simple. Things get overly complicated when people add things like "faith" to any for profit company that provides consumer entertainment products for leisure.

Outside is beautiful today give it a try.Razz

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.15 18:15:00 - [86]
 

The first time CCP rankled me was when they boosted the NPC corp tax from 0% to 11% (after 5+ years.) It's when I first realized that even though they tout EVE as a sandbox game, they really don't respect that concept. They're all about giving 'special shovels' to 'some people' instead of making the rules of the game as fair as possible and then letting the players play.


Theodemir
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.15 18:43:00 - [87]
 

Because their[CCP] management is by and large Icelandic(male)?! ... it seems they're as good with customer service and game development than their country is with finances. Evil or Very Mad

Duvida
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.07.15 20:19:00 - [88]
 

First off, Lakuma, you're hired! You handled a very condescending post in a most non-condescending, respectful way that made the thread worth continuing on. Brujo Loco, you're probably hired, your posts are quite constructive even if your dial goes to 12 sometimes. Very Happy

The OP and the rest of the thread are good as well, whether I agree with the post or not, and I was only pointing out these two as they stood out well in this thread. The condescending post that I was pointing out, Dante Marcellus' (and others voicing the same opinions), actually echos CCP's point of view for me. The arguments are simplistic and do not address concerns in any constructive way. The reasoning behind the arguments doesn't appear to change and the direction that the actions taken based on those arguments don't appear to be going in a sustainable direction.

My thought: CCP's direction isn't changing even after this last month. The hardware-burning issue may or may not be addressed adequately enough to reduce the numbers that are being forced out. As stated above and in other threads, some high-end machines and cards are having this issue, some are not. Many mid-range machines are going to be forced out irregardless. This alone substantially raises the cost of EVE beyond $15 a month/account.

If the hardware issue wasn't enough, it appears that EVE may still become much more expensive to play, beyond the $15/month/account already paid. (Yes, many of the multi-boxers pay in isk-funded PLEX, but that looks to be drawing to a close with the new hardware reqs) The rage spike was a one-time event. The marriage of CCP to pay-to-win culture looks to be ongoing. It's a murky future, but the possibility of EVE's 8 year culture being forced out to make room for a NEX culture is enough for me to stop investing time in my current fashion. (I haven't explored the possibility of milking the NEX cash cow, if one develops)

However, I think the possibility of this gamble of "all our old players will be replaced by new Aurum buying players quickly" isn't realistic to me. Even if CCP didn't have the current financial concerns, I don't think this 'trade off' will keep the doors open. EVE requires a higher subscriber base now to keep operations up than it did in 2003/2004. That base didn't instantly disappear during the last month because, 1. You aren't going to get a refund of remaining time, right? 2. Part of the reason for speaking up is hope of a better result.

So, you'll see a month by month, or 3 month by 3 month drop in subscribers, rather than an instant walk-out. The better results hoped for? Time will tell on this, but several things don't point to a bright future, the apparent disengagement of CCP top management being one of them. "The door" doesn't only apply to non-compliant EVE players. As EVE players leave, you'll find they're taking EVE away from those that feel as Marcellus does, as well. So nobody wins. Unfortunately, I don't see that changing.

Justice Starcatcher
Volatile Nature
Posted - 2011.07.15 20:40:00 - [89]
 

I always hear FIX the game, Fix the game. Sadly all this means to the people is change the game to make it easier for me. You're a bunch of Narcissistic pricks that canít grasp EVE needs to be more than centered on your own narrow view.

Phi Nupe
Posted - 2011.07.15 22:43:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Justice Starcatcher
I always hear FIX the game, Fix the game. Sadly all this means to the people is change the game to make it easier for me. You're a bunch of Narcissistic pricks that canít grasp EVE needs to be more than centered on your own narrow view.


I approve of this post.


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