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Zag'mar Jurkar
Minmatar
Advent of the Blood Sun
Posted - 2011.07.01 01:35:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
Isk sink is when isk leaves the game, this just swirls it around a bit. The shop itself a plex sink, and therefor a Real money sink.


Do you even know what a "money sink" is?

Sinking money is to destroy it, get it out of where it exist. Buying PLEX is in no way a "Real Money sink", it goes in CCP's pockets.

Hohepa Marstolt
Posted - 2011.07.01 01:35:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.
Actually the OP is correct. non-vanity MT is 100% fine and non-game breaking. Heres why;

1) In order to buy a NeXMachariel you need to trade in a regular Machariel in addition to Aur (trade in system as stated by ccp) Thus it does not break ingame economy by spawning 'ships out of nowhere'

2) You can already pay2win by purchacing GTC's and buying a 100mil SP character and titan.

3) regular market items are able to be purchaced with ether Isk or money (via gtc/plex)

4) NeX store items are able to be purchaced with ether money or Isk (Use isk to buy Plex, use plex to buy Aur)


You see, now you have no legs to stand on.


AFAIK OP still does not know what an isk sink is so anything else she has to say is invalid.

Valkyrie Avalon
Posted - 2011.07.01 01:38:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.
Actually the OP is correct. non-vanity MT is 100% fine and non-game breaking. Heres why;

1) In order to buy a NeXMachariel you need to trade in a regular Machariel in addition to Aur (trade in system as stated by ccp) Thus it does not break ingame economy by spawning 'ships out of nowhere'

2) You can already pay2win by purchacing GTC's and buying a 100mil SP character and titan.

3) regular market items are able to be purchaced with ether Isk or money (via gtc/plex)

4) NeX store items are able to be purchaced with ether money or Isk (Use isk to buy Plex, use plex to buy Aur)


You see, now you have no legs to stand on.


#2 is flawed. You can buy a 100m character but that does not guarantee that it has all the skills you need. Also you can't look through a "catalog" of skills to give to the character. You either wait for the perfect one to come along, or you buy a less skilled character and get it training it to where you want to go with it.

Venekar
Posted - 2011.07.01 01:43:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.
Actually the OP is correct. non-vanity MT is 100% fine and non-game breaking. Heres why;

1) In order to buy a NeXMachariel you need to trade in a regular Machariel in addition to Aur (trade in system as stated by ccp) Thus it does not break ingame economy by spawning 'ships out of nowhere'

2) You can already pay2win by purchacing GTC's and buying a 100mil SP character and titan.

3) regular market items are able to be purchaced with ether Isk or money (via gtc/plex)

4) NeX store items are able to be purchaced with ether money or Isk (Use isk to buy Plex, use plex to buy Aur)


You see, now you have no legs to stand on.


AFAIK OP still does not know what an isk sink is so anything else she has to say is invalid.


Your logic is flawed. If I say the earth is flat. Then proceed to say that every body remains in a state of constant velocity unless acted upon by an external unbalanced force. So by your logic because the first statement I made was wrong that makes the second one wrong ?

Any way to much time wasted on this already. I hope CCP makes a killing and every one of them becomes wealthy. A broke developer cant develop. Just go try Earth Rise if you don't believe me. Cheers to CCP and I cant wait to see more from them in the future. Very Happy

Zag'mar Jurkar
Minmatar
Advent of the Blood Sun
Posted - 2011.07.01 01:44:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 01:36:19
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.
Actually the OP is somewhat correct. though i do not agree with removing the paid subscription model. (it would be nice... but get real.) non-vanity MT is 100% fine and non-game breaking. Heres why;

1) In order to buy a NeXMachariel you need to trade in a regular Machariel in addition to Aur (trade in system as stated by ccp) Thus it does not break ingame economy by spawning 'ships out of nowhere'

2) You can already pay2win by purchacing GTC's and buying a 100mil SP character and titan.

3) regular market items are able to be purchaced with ether Isk or money (via gtc/plex)

4) NeX store items are able to be purchaced with ether money or Isk (Use isk to buy Plex, use plex to buy Aur)


You see, now you have no legs to stand on.


About #2.
Yes, for the guy that buys a character it is "pay-2-win", but the character he is buying was in the hand of a player that have spent, made isk, he ran missions, mined, whatever. The character being bought doesn't come from nowhere, it just goes from one's account to an other one.

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.01 01:47:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 01:53:39
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 01:52:05
Originally by: Valkyrie Avalon
#2 is flawed. You can buy a 100m character but that does not guarantee that it has all the skills you need. Also you can't look through a "catalog" of skills to give to the character. You either wait for the perfect one to come along, or you buy a less skilled character and get it training it to where you want to go with it.



That is your secret weapon? The Pay2Win player might not be able to find a character to buy that has ALL the skills he wants? lol.

And where did CCP say anything about outright selling SP? They -never- have, not even in fearless. Thats just your mindless mob propaganda.

You're honestly telling me that your argument, that a p2w player might not find his perfect titan character, and thus my whole argument is invalid? lmfao.

This is the kind of people who're hating on nex/mt/nonvanity, people. These guys take their logic straight from fox news.

If i filled your salt shaker up with Sea Salt instead of regular Table Salt, would you throw a fit too? Ignoring the fact that both are chemically identical and the only difference is the process in which it ends up on a store shelf. You're just hunting for any possible defense you can muster, even if its irrelevant. Sadly, this type of argument works wonders on the mass population of idiots, as evidenced by the jita riots.

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.01 01:49:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Zag'mar Jurkar
About #2.
Yes, for the guy that buys a character it is "pay-2-win", but the character he is buying was in the hand of a player that have spent, made isk, he ran missions, mined, whatever. The character being bought doesn't come from nowhere, it just goes from one's account to an other one.

Refer to #1 as to how the ship doesnt spawn out of thin air. Someone mined, refined, manufactured, and sold that machariel initially. its just going from one person's account to the next.

Atreus Venom
Gallente
New Eden Hitmen
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:03:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Atreus Venom on 01/07/2011 02:03:05
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
Edited by: Hohepa Marstolt on 01/07/2011 01:32:07
Originally by: Venekar
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
Originally by: Venekar
Everything in life is pay to win. Just how it works. If you are broke go work harder and play less games buy a better computer and the graphics wont be an issue. This game is already pay to win. You can buy Plex and sell it for ISK lol. Nothing wrong with it. I think there are just a lot of people who hate on people that have. Its as old as time. Haves and the have not's. Have not's never want to look in the mirror and realize the reason they are a have not, MOST of the time is their own fault. <---- Well at least if you live in America. Some countries you truly have no control to change anything no matter how hard you work.


Everything about your post is sad. Do not reproduce. This is for your own good.




I have two boys, best thing that has ever happened to me besides my wife. I am a very happy man.


Alright, you win, I will give you the post I was summing up.

People play games to get away from that type of thing, its called escapism.

I'm guessing your the one that hates people that have, where is your monocle?

America is not special.



Where are you from?

Venekar
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:04:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 01:53:39
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 01:52:05
Originally by: Valkyrie Avalon
#2 is flawed. You can buy a 100m character but that does not guarantee that it has all the skills you need. Also you can't look through a "catalog" of skills to give to the character. You either wait for the perfect one to come along, or you buy a less skilled character and get it training it to where you want to go with it.



That is your secret weapon? The Pay2Win player might not be able to find a character to buy that has ALL the skills he wants? lol.

And where did CCP say anything about outright selling SP? They -never- have, not even in fearless. Thats just your mindless mob propaganda.

You're honestly telling me that your argument, that a p2w player might not find his perfect titan character, and thus my whole argument is invalid? lmfao.

This is the kind of people who're hating on nex/mt/nonvanity, people. These guys take their logic straight from fox news.

If i filled your salt shaker up with Sea Salt instead of regular Table Salt, would you throw a fit too? Ignoring the fact that both are chemically identical and the only difference is the process in which it ends up on a store shelf. You're just hunting for any possible defense you can muster, even if its irrelevant. Sadly, this type of argument works wonders on the mass population of idiots, as evidenced by the jita riots.


Nice man so true. Except the fox news part. Making a blanket statement about a news network a cable news one at that has nothing to do with intellect. The reason I say that is not one of the three big cable news networks a even remotely concerned with giving us just the facts. They all comment and try to tell us how to think act and vote etc etc.

Atreus Venom
Gallente
New Eden Hitmen
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:06:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Venekar
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 01:53:39
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 01:52:05
Originally by: Valkyrie Avalon
#2 is flawed. You can buy a 100m character but that does not guarantee that it has all the skills you need. Also you can't look through a "catalog" of skills to give to the character. You either wait for the perfect one to come along, or you buy a less skilled character and get it training it to where you want to go with it.



That is your secret weapon? The Pay2Win player might not be able to find a character to buy that has ALL the skills he wants? lol.

And where did CCP say anything about outright selling SP? They -never- have, not even in fearless. Thats just your mindless mob propaganda.

You're honestly telling me that your argument, that a p2w player might not find his perfect titan character, and thus my whole argument is invalid? lmfao.

This is the kind of people who're hating on nex/mt/nonvanity, people. These guys take their logic straight from fox news.

If i filled your salt shaker up with Sea Salt instead of regular Table Salt, would you throw a fit too? Ignoring the fact that both are chemically identical and the only difference is the process in which it ends up on a store shelf. You're just hunting for any possible defense you can muster, even if its irrelevant. Sadly, this type of argument works wonders on the mass population of idiots, as evidenced by the jita riots.


Nice man so true. Except the fox news part. Making a blanket statement about a news network a cable news one at that has nothing to do with intellect. The reason I say that is not one of the three big cable news networks a even remotely concerned with giving us just the facts. They all comment and try to tell us how to think act and vote etc etc.


+1 for peter joseph!!!

Montevius Williams
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:07:00 - [41]
 



These guys take their logic straight from fox news.



HAHA - thats funny - Fox News is the Worst.

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:15:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Venekar
The reason I say that is not one of the three big cable news networks a even remotely concerned with giving us just the facts. They all comment and try to tell us how to think act and vote etc etc.


Haha true enough, fox news imo stands out like a sore thumb to me, but i have yet to see a fair and balanced news network anywhere other then Comedy Central's Jon Stewart.

Vherkin
Amarr
War Cake
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:26:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 02:31:17
Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 02:31:01
Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 02:29:15
Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 02:27:03
Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 02:26:37
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Zag'mar Jurkar
About #2.
Yes, for the guy that buys a character it is "pay-2-win", but the character he is buying was in the hand of a player that have spent, made isk, he ran missions, mined, whatever. The character being bought doesn't come from nowhere, it just goes from one's account to an other one.

Refer to #1 as to how the ship doesnt spawn out of thin air. Someone mined, refined, manufactured, and sold that machariel initially. its just going from one person's account to the next.


With an exeption... The NeX addition...
It is not because something is partially made by a player that is make it is more right for ccp to unbalance a game.
A guys that buy a titan account and a titan with plex don't unbalance the game since these already existed.

But a guys who buy these off ccp will do since it is spawn out of tin air. Same goes for the bonus added when you make your ship NeX. Unless the only bonus actually added is a change of skin.

Originally by: "Venekar"
Everything In life is pay to win. Just how it works. If you are broke go work harder and play less games buy a better computer and the graphics wont be an issue. This game is already pay to win. You can buy Plex and sell it for ISK lol. Nothing wrong with it. I think there are just a lot of people who hate on people that have. Its as old as time. Haves and the have not's. Have not's never want to look in the mirror and realize the reason they are a have not, MOST of the time is their own fault. <---- Well at least if you live in America. Some countries you truly have no control to change anything no matter how hard you work.


Exept most thing aren't. Atleast, not in the sense of PtW.
When you go to a chess club, no one will say to you, hey that guys can have two queens, he bought the right too.
In a tennis match no one will say to you that guys paid to get a 20% increase in point scored over you.
Because they're rule again that. In these game it is called outright cheating.

Sure, if you play tennis and your rich you can pay up a teacher or a better equipment but the same goes for eve.
To play eve, your actual equipment aren't your ship it's your computer and your internet connection.


That why people are angry again PtW.

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:34:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 02:43:00
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 02:41:47
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 02:37:17
Originally by: Vherkin

A guys that buy a titan account and a titan with plex don't unbalance the game since these already existed.

But a guys who buy these off ccp will do since it is spawn out of tin air. Same goes for the bonus added when you make your ship NeX. Unless the only bonus actually added is a change of skin.


non-vanity items do not give creditcard holders the advantage, as all nex items are available for isk as well.
The only thing that comes out of 'thin air' is the actual bonus given to the ship. That is not game-breaking in any way. Does it introduce a bonus 'out of thin air'? Not really. That bonus was purchaced with isk. How is that any different then buying a CNR instead of a regular raven?


Originally by: Vherkin

When you go to a chess club, no one will say to you, hey that guys can have two queens, he bought the right too.
In a tennis match no one will say to you that guys paid to get a 20% increase in point scored over you.


your examples do not apply here. Take the chess club example. Player1 purchaces his second queen with money. But Player2 can still get a second queen buy spending some 'ingame currency'. (i know theres no ingame currency in chess... which is why your example fails)

Eve is already pay2win

Money > GTC > character+titan
Money > 5 monitors 150$ each > 10 accounts 16$ each > multibox software something like 50$ a year > 10 Hulks mining and with the same amount of work as running 1 client.

Container Storage
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:47:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Container Storage on 01/07/2011 02:49:02
Edited by: Container Storage on 01/07/2011 02:47:58
Edited by: Container Storage on 01/07/2011 02:47:11
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 02:37:17
Originally by: Vherkin

A guys that buy a titan account and a titan with plex don't unbalance the game since these already existed.

But a guys who buy these off ccp will do since it is spawn out of tin air. Same goes for the bonus added when you make your ship NeX. Unless the only bonus actually added is a change of skin.


non-vanity items do not give creditcard holders the advantage, as all nex items are available for isk as well.
The only thing that comes out of 'thin air' is the actual bonus given to the ship. That is not game-breaking in any way. Does it introduce a bonus 'out of thin air'? Not really. That bonus was purchaced with isk. How is that any different then buying a CNR instead of a regular raven?


There one, i will explain it really simply.
That bonus wasn't purchased with isk but with irl money, even if it's not you that paid for it, someone did. Hence adding it from thin air because of irl money.
While the CNR is coming from a player who only paid for one thing, is subscription. Like everyone else.

The fact it isn't game breaking doesn't matter.

Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Vherkin

When you go to a chess club, no one will say to you, hey that guys can have two queens, he bought the right too.
In a tennis match no one will say to you that guys paid to get a 20% increase in point scored over you.


your examples do not apply here. Take the chess club example. Player1 purchaces his second queen with money. But Player2 can still get a second queen buy spending some 'ingame currency'. (i know theres no ingame currency in chess... which is why your example fails)


Actually, there is a currency in chess to get a second queen. It is called a peon. If the peon goes to the other side of the board, he can become any piece you want. People choose usually a queen since it is the most powerfull piece.
The difference becoming here that the other guys have is queen not because he was able to traverse the board but because he paid for it. So does my exemple still fail ?

(Sorry, i forgot to change my character to vherkin, it is me)

Spyres
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:50:00 - [46]
 

We're already paying a subscription FFS! That should be reason enough.

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:52:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Spyres
We're already paying a subscription FFS! That should be reason enough.


nobody is forcing you to pay one cent more. All of this is available with ingame isk. The fact it can be purchaced with IRL money is nothing new as you can already do that via GTC's.

Grow up.

Container Storage
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:53:00 - [48]
 

I can't buy myself bonus from ccp with GTC, the last time i asked they said no

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:54:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Container Storage
That bonus wasn't purchased with isk but with irl money, even if it's not you that paid for it, someone did.

One could argue that by buying machariel with isk, i'm actually purchacing it with real money, since some of this isk in my wallet came from someone who purchaced isk with GTC's.

My point was that the items are available ingame for Isk as well as money. No different from the current GTC situation.

Thresh Avery
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:55:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Klandi
Originally by: Thresh Avery

You don't seem to realise how players being able to "fast track" will affect the game in general. Experience comes with time, so it's only a matter of time until they have the edge on you, then i imagine you'll feel very differently.


But Avery, time doesn't stand still for me so I would gain more experience as well and the matter of time is like saying to a person 10yrs your senior that you will catch up to them.

Originally by: Thresh Avery

The other thing you haven't realised is that another 100mil SP player (like me) that has similar game experience (like me) could buy a special faction ship from the NeX store that you refuse to purchase, because of your view on MT in non-F2P games. What would happen then? I think it's fair to say you'd lose the battle each time, because a player (again, as an example, like me) would be able to buy the edge on you.

Can't you see how this is a destructive pattern? It leaves players with the alternative of paying more money to keep up with those players throwing isk to fast-track, or to leave due to disagreeing with the morals of CCP and those who do participate in advantage-giving MT.


Destructive.. not in that way. You know that this environment is "balanced" and even the faction ships on offer regardless of their abilities will give you an additional 10sec life time if you kit them out correctly. However the newbie in this ship doesn't know how to do this so the only destruction will be his - because he has not got the experience. That will be his baptism of fire and it will be a painful. expensive lesson.


On the first point, i don't strictly agree. Yes you will still be experienced and capable in combat, but there's only so much experience you can gain. Players playing as long as we have - providing they've been PvPing most of that time - has seen all aspects of combat and know how to respond to certain scenarios and how not to panic during battles etc. A player that has bought his SP and ships through MT will soon gain those insights, whereas there's not much more for you or I to gain in terms of experience.

Secondly, you refer to the "newbie" again when my point was that if you're facing an opponent with the same 100mil SP you have and the same level of experience in ship fitting, combat etc that you have, the player with the advantage through P2W items and ships would be more likely to win. And that wouldn't be fair.

The additional 10 sec lifetime argument i agree with, but then that's usually in scenarios where you're outnumbered and no amount of bonuses is going to keep you alive anyway. Either way, we're discussing a very broad topic without defining the boundaries of discussion, so either of us could argue their points and still be right.

Vherkin
Amarr
War Cake
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:55:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 02:57:00
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Container Storage
That bonus wasn't purchased with isk but with irl money, even if it's not you that paid for it, someone did.

One could argue that by buying machariel with isk, i'm actually purchacing it with real money, since some of this isk in my wallet came from someone who purchaced isk with GTC's.

My point was that the items are available ingame for Isk as well as money. No different from the current GTC situation.



No actually, since that isk from gtc came from another player who farm from it. Ad nauseum. And that the point of other people. CCP doesn't spawn anything more because you have a gtc, it doesn't add more isk in the game because you sold a plex. A player did the work. A player alway do the work.

Spyres
Posted - 2011.07.01 03:04:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Spyres on 01/07/2011 03:08:07
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Grow up.


Still butt hurt about that monocle is see.

Edit: the OP's title is P2W referring to game-affecting items FYI, hardly optional if it takes hold and becomes the norm.

Container Storage
Posted - 2011.07.01 03:06:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Spyres
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Grow up.


Still butt hurt about that monocle is see.


Come on, that just low

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.01 03:07:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Vherkin
Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 02:57:00
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Container Storage
That bonus wasn't purchased with isk but with irl money, even if it's not you that paid for it, someone did.

One could argue that by buying machariel with isk, i'm actually purchacing it with real money, since some of this isk in my wallet came from someone who purchaced isk with GTC's.

My point was that the items are available ingame for Isk as well as money. No different from the current GTC situation.



No actually, since that isk from gtc came from another player who farm from it. Ad nauseum. And that the point of other people. CCP doesn't spawn anything more because you have a gtc, it doesn't add more isk in the game because you sold a plex. A player did the work. A player alway do the work.


There are many faucets in the game. complexes, missions, asteroid belts... Its all 'spawned' out of nowhere. The player did some work for it yes.

Me buying a NeX with isk means i've done some work in order to aquire that isk. The actual bonus is indeed 'spawned out of nowhere' but i ask, how is this gamebreaking in any way at all? Its not.

It may not be 'ideal' but it certainly is nothing to rage and quit over.

Blood Fart
Posted - 2011.07.01 03:20:00 - [55]
 

I too look forward to the P2W items.

I cannot wait for the boosters that will make me invulnerable to other players. Level 5s in a rattlesnake here I come!

Orlacc
Posted - 2011.07.01 03:49:00 - [56]
 

P2W will not occur. It has not in any major MMO that offers micro-transactions.

But that doesn't stop the hysterical chicken-littles.

On the other hand, isn't running 4 or 5 accounts P2W?

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.07.01 03:57:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Terminal Insanity
If i filled your salt shaker up with Sea Salt instead of regular Table Salt, would you throw a fit too? Ignoring the fact that both are chemically identical and the only difference is the process in which it ends up on a store shelf.


Incorrect.

Table salt is usually washed, filtered and refined. What you get in the shaker is mostly white sodium chloride crystals of a consistent size.

Sea salt is simply extracted from sea water by evaporation. What you get in the grinder is sodium chloride, potassium chloride, other salts, chemicals resulting from the decay of fish or plants, and other traces that stayed in suspension during the evaporation process.

Thus sea salt has different flavours, colours, and textures.

Surely someone as refined as yourself should understand the difference?

Da Gooch
Posted - 2011.07.01 04:18:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 01:36:19
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.
Actually the OP is somewhat correct. though i do not agree with removing the paid subscription model. (it would be nice... but get real.) non-vanity MT is 100% fine and non-game breaking. Heres why;

1) In order to buy a NeXMachariel you need to trade in a regular Machariel in addition to Aur (trade in system as stated by ccp) Thus it does not break ingame economy by spawning 'ships out of nowhere'

2) You can already pay2win by purchacing GTC's and buying a 100mil SP character and titan.

3) regular market items are able to be purchaced with ether Isk or money (via gtc/plex)

4) NeX store items are able to be purchaced with ether money or Isk (Use isk to buy Plex, use plex to buy Aur)


You see, now you have no legs to stand on.


Oh do us all a favor and shut up Mr.Clueless

Zag'mar Jurkar
Minmatar
Advent of the Blood Sun
Posted - 2011.07.01 04:41:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Vherkin
Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 02:57:00
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Container Storage
That bonus wasn't purchased with isk but with irl money, even if it's not you that paid for it, someone did.

One could argue that by buying machariel with isk, i'm actually purchacing it with real money, since some of this isk in my wallet came from someone who purchaced isk with GTC's.

My point was that the items are available ingame for Isk as well as money. No different from the current GTC situation.



No actually, since that isk from gtc came from another player who farm from it. Ad nauseum. And that the point of other people. CCP doesn't spawn anything more because you have a gtc, it doesn't add more isk in the game because you sold a plex. A player did the work. A player alway do the work.


There are many faucets in the game. complexes, missions, asteroid belts... Its all 'spawned' out of nowhere. The player did some work for it yes.

Me buying a NeX with isk means i've done some work in order to aquire that isk. The actual bonus is indeed 'spawned out of nowhere' but i ask, how is this gamebreaking in any way at all? Its not.

It may not be 'ideal' but it certainly is nothing to rage and quit over.


If a ship is sold at always the same price, the same ship you were buying on the market a week ago, it will take away the ask and demands and that said ship would never have to be sold higher than the one from NeX from anywhere otherwise people will just go there for a fresh-outofthebox cheaper ship.

Vherkin
Amarr
War Cake
Posted - 2011.07.01 04:41:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 04:41:53
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Vherkin
Edited by: Vherkin on 01/07/2011 02:57:00
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Container Storage
That bonus wasn't purchased with isk but with irl money, even if it's not you that paid for it, someone did.

One could argue that by buying machariel with isk, i'm actually purchacing it with real money, since some of this isk in my wallet came from someone who purchaced isk with GTC's.

My point was that the items are available ingame for Isk as well as money. No different from the current GTC situation.



No actually, since that isk from gtc came from another player who farm from it. Ad nauseum. And that the point of other people. CCP doesn't spawn anything more because you have a gtc, it doesn't add more isk in the game because you sold a plex. A player did the work. A player alway do the work.


There are many faucets in the game. complexes, missions, asteroid belts... Its all 'spawned' out of nowhere. The player did some work for it yes.

Me buying a NeX with isk means i've done some work in order to aquire that isk. The actual bonus is indeed 'spawned out of nowhere' but i ask, how is this gamebreaking in any way at all? Its not.

It may not be 'ideal' but it certainly is nothing to rage and quit over.


Ho yes it is, even if it isn't game breaking.
The spawning of belts, npcs, isks, bounty, ship bonus, modules, stats and other are the rules that the game follows. They are the same for everyone.
But PtW is paying to change the rule, even slightly, to your advantage.
And that my friend is unacceptable, even if you aren't the one one who paid directly with your irl money.


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