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Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
Posted - 2011.06.30 21:32:00 - [1]
 

And I say this after a lot of consideration ... and if you're interested, here's why:


1) Been in the game 5-6 yrs. Got 100mil SP with lvl5 in most areas I wanted to. A P2W player can't get any more than lvl5 in that area and if he/she paid to do it then strangely enough I still have the edge cos I have the experience which the P2W player doesn't. That could cost the P2W player 3 times as much replacing his ship and pod before he gains a bit of the experience I have.


2) How is the P2W player paying for this? If he is buying ISK (illegal RMT) then buying the character and ship, he can be found out and banned. If he buys it through CCP (either directly with PLEX/ISK) or via MT, it is a source of revenue for CCP to fund whatever. MT is just a method of getting monies out of players that wish to fast track.
There is a high possibility that the people that have purchased vanity items did it with ISK they had accumulated already and CCP succeeded in pulling that cash out of the system (another ISK sink)

3) If I don't want to buy - I don't HAVE to buy. BUT if I want to buy I can. It would be nice to have that choice. P2W and MT will give me that choice.



However there is a BUT and here it is.


I DON'T want to pay 15 bucks a month. If you want to change the pricing model CCP I have no problem but if you go MT and P2W then drop the subscription fee because all games I have played that are P2W are free to join and continue to be free.


To summarise

In my current state over over 100mil SP, I have no problem with a new player buying the 100mil SP off CCP - I can practically guarantee that they will lose their ship because I have the experience.
Similarly, if a week old player was flying around in a faction BS fitted out with faction gear - I believe (knowing the Eve community as I do) that he would be suicide ganked in hi-sec and primaried in lo/null sec.


That's where I stand, if your interested.

Whiny McEmokid
Posted - 2011.06.30 21:35:00 - [2]
 

i see your point however

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.06.30 21:37:00 - [3]
 

your oppinion is flawed because you assume it takes years to learn to fly said ship, a new player can L2 fly a carrier or dread in weeks then buy the SP to fly it, in fact what if power blocks pay to upgrade pilot skills?
what blocks nullsec fights from being literally ALL super caps?

skills
time(to build)
removing skills would be bad because with only time to make said caps the only issue simply more production facilities would go up

Hekira Soikutsu
Posted - 2011.06.30 21:37:00 - [4]
 

One issue is that we can quickly make 1 week old disposable pvp alts. In a game where you cannot change your name and you leave an indelible mark on the things you do and the places you go, a few dollars is cheap for anonymity.

Eve is about accountability. What you are saying makes it too easy to wage war by proxy. If you must have alts then it must come at a cost of time.

CORPSE FEMALE
Posted - 2011.06.30 21:37:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Klandi
it is a source of revenue for CCP to fund whatever.

Yeah, like other games unrelated to Eve. Why exactly should we be happy about this?

Originally by: Klandi
There is a high possibility that the people that have purchased vanity items did it with ISK they had accumulated already and CCP succeeded in pulling that cash out of the system (another ISK sink)

It's not an isk sink since the isk remains in the economy just as before.

Originally by: Klandi
I DON'T want to pay 15 bucks a month. If you want to change the pricing model CCP I have no problem but if you go MT and P2W then drop the subscription fee because all games I have played that are P2W are free to join and continue to be free.

I can sort of understand you feeling that way, but CCP will never lower the subscription fee. They are just trying to milk us dry.

Valhasi Ju'ma'ha
Posted - 2011.06.30 21:42:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Herping yourDerp
Stuff and herfderf


Herping - have you been in a fight against PL recently? One of the last battles they bought over 100 supercaps to the fight. What you are saying is already happening without MT or P2W

Digital Messiah
Gallente
N7 Corporation
PandaMonium.
Posted - 2011.06.30 21:45:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Klandi
And I say this after a lot of consideration ... and if you're interested, here's why:


1) Been in the game 5-6 yrs. Got 100mil SP with lvl5 in most areas I wanted to. A P2W player can't get any more than lvl5 in that area and if he/she paid to do it then strangely enough I still have the edge cos I have the experience which the P2W player doesn't. That could cost the P2W player 3 times as much replacing his ship and pod before he gains a bit of the experience I have.


2) How is the P2W player paying for this? If he is buying ISK (illegal RMT) then buying the character and ship, he can be found out and banned. If he buys it through CCP (either directly with PLEX/ISK) or via MT, it is a source of revenue for CCP to fund whatever. MT is just a method of getting monies out of players that wish to fast track.
There is a high possibility that the people that have purchased vanity items did it with ISK they had accumulated already and CCP succeeded in pulling that cash out of the system (another ISK sink)

3) If I don't want to buy - I don't HAVE to buy. BUT if I want to buy I can. It would be nice to have that choice. P2W and MT will give me that choice.



However there is a BUT and here it is.


I DON'T want to pay 15 bucks a month. If you want to change the pricing model CCP I have no problem but if you go MT and P2W then drop the subscription fee because all games I have played that are P2W are free to join and continue to be free.


To summarise

In my current state over over 100mil SP, I have no problem with a new player buying the 100mil SP off CCP - I can practically guarantee that they will lose their ship because I have the experience.
Similarly, if a week old player was flying around in a faction BS fitted out with faction gear - I believe (knowing the Eve community as I do) that he would be suicide ganked in hi-sec and primaried in lo/null sec.


That's where I stand, if your interested.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
Posted - 2011.06.30 22:03:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: CORPSE FEMALE
Originally by: Klandi
it is a source of revenue for CCP to fund whatever.

Yeah, like other games unrelated to Eve. Why exactly should we be happy about this?

Well it would be nice to use the money to fund Eve but we give CCP the money and they do with it as they like.

Originally by: Klandi
There is a high possibility that the people that have purchased vanity items did it with ISK they had accumulated already and CCP succeeded in pulling that cash out of the system (another ISK sink)

It's not an isk sink since the isk remains in the economy just as before.

How exactly?

Originally by: Klandi
I DON'T want to pay 15 bucks a month. If you want to change the pricing model CCP I have no problem but if you go MT and P2W then drop the subscription fee because all games I have played that are P2W are free to join and continue to be free.

I can sort of understand you feeling that way, but CCP will never lower the subscription fee. They are just trying to milk us dry.


I refer to the part on buying - you are not obliged to buy

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.30 22:28:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Klandi


I refer to the part on buying - you are not obliged to buy


Yea, until you can't compete UNLESS you buy.


And that is where it will end, you're a fool if yo believe otherwise.

Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
Posted - 2011.06.30 22:30:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Klandi


I refer to the part on buying - you are not obliged to buy


Yea, until you can't compete UNLESS you buy.


And that is where it will end, you're a fool if yo believe otherwise.


As I am talking from the perspective of a 100mil SP char. Tell me how I would HAVE to buy to compete

Hai Boiz
Posted - 2011.06.30 22:32:00 - [11]
 

I would consider it a win if I could purchase a nice massage table and a full body rub emote.

burstup
Posted - 2011.06.30 22:35:00 - [12]
 


Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
Posted - 2011.06.30 22:39:00 - [13]
 

thanks for the bump plonka

NARDAC
Posted - 2011.06.30 22:42:00 - [14]
 

I am in favor of P2W also. It is going to save me about $600 a year as I've unsubbed all of my accounts.

Thresh Avery
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.06.30 22:44:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Thresh Avery on 30/06/2011 22:46:27
You don't seem to realise how players being able to "fast track" will affect the game in general. Experience comes with time, so it's only a matter of time until they have the edge on you, then i imagine you'll feel very differently.

The other thing you haven't realised is that another 100mil SP player (like me) that has similar game experience (like me) could buy a special faction ship from the NeX store that you refuse to purchase, because of your view on MT in non-F2P games. What would happen then? I think it's fair to say you'd lose the battle each time, because a player (again, as an example, like me) would be able to buy the edge on you.

Can't you see how this is a destructive pattern? It leaves players with the alternative of paying more money to keep up with those players throwing isk to fast-track, or to leave due to disagreeing with the morals of CCP and those who do participate in advantage-giving MT.

And for what it's worth, i used the above purely as an example. I strongly disagree with advantage-giving MT and won't be buying anything from the NeX store. But if somebody with similar SP/experience as myself or you did, it would de-value mine or your playing experience.

Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
Posted - 2011.06.30 23:37:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Thresh Avery

You don't seem to realise how players being able to "fast track" will affect the game in general. Experience comes with time, so it's only a matter of time until they have the edge on you, then i imagine you'll feel very differently.


But Avery, time doesn't stand still for me so I would gain more experience as well and the matter of time is like saying to a person 10yrs your senior that you will catch up to them.

Originally by: Thresh Avery

The other thing you haven't realised is that another 100mil SP player (like me) that has similar game experience (like me) could buy a special faction ship from the NeX store that you refuse to purchase, because of your view on MT in non-F2P games. What would happen then? I think it's fair to say you'd lose the battle each time, because a player (again, as an example, like me) would be able to buy the edge on you.

Can't you see how this is a destructive pattern? It leaves players with the alternative of paying more money to keep up with those players throwing isk to fast-track, or to leave due to disagreeing with the morals of CCP and those who do participate in advantage-giving MT.


Destructive.. not in that way. You know that this environment is "balanced" and even the faction ships on offer regardless of their abilities will give you an additional 10sec life time if you kit them out correctly. However the newbie in this ship doesn't know how to do this so the only destruction will be his - because he has not got the experience. That will be his baptism of fire and it will be a painful. expensive lesson.

Ezra Vouland
Lords 0f Justice
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.07.01 00:00:00 - [17]
 

SO much speculation of what will actually be sold in the Nex. Anyways , even with bought boosting items Eve is dynamic enough and can counter things in many different ways in the end it doesn't matter. Whiners are just whining to whine and speculate.

Valari Nala Zena
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.07.01 00:08:00 - [18]
 

Don't forget that anyone with money can buy a character.
All the newbie needs is a good pvp training corp and he/she will be kicking your ass in no time.

The Ying
Posted - 2011.07.01 00:16:00 - [19]
 

WHO CARES?

Players that like P2W games play P2W games, now let's change all the **** of this game and make it P2W with no subs..

I played P2W chinese games, surprisingly I got bored very quick. Getting to the top in 2-3 days made me lost interest in these games.

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.01 00:56:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: CORPSE FEMALE

Yeah, like other games unrelated to Eve. Why exactly should we be happy about this?
its not a matter of if you should or shouldnt like it. Its just a fact of the real world. reguardless of what service or product you purchace, your money is going to several unrelated causes/people/products. If you dont like this, you should probably ... hrm... find a deserted island and make your own rules.


Originally by: CORPSE FEMALE
I can sort of understand you feeling that way, but CCP will never lower the subscription fee. They are just trying to milk us dry.
Are you admitting you are mentally incapable of thinking for yourself here?

You're telling me if CCP puts a few shiny objects in a store, its going to force you to buy them? lol.

Dont like it dont ****ing buy it. You can still get any of it with ingame isk.

Venekar
Posted - 2011.07.01 01:11:00 - [21]
 

Everything in life is pay to win. Just how it works. If you are broke go work harder and play less games buy a better computer and the graphics wont be an issue. This game is already pay to win. You can buy Plex and sell it for ISK lol. Nothing wrong with it. I think there are just a lot of people who hate on people that have. Its as old as time. Haves and the have not's. Have not's never want to look in the mirror and realize the reason they are a have not, MOST of the time is their own fault. <---- Well at least if you live in America. Some countries you truly have no control to change anything no matter how hard you work.

Hohepa Marstolt
Posted - 2011.07.01 01:11:00 - [22]
 

Isk sink is when isk leaves the game, this just swirls it around a bit. The shop itself a plex sink, and therefor a Real money sink.

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.01 01:16:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
Isk sink is when isk leaves the game, this just swirls it around a bit. The shop itself a plex sink, and therefor a Real money sink.


Dolphins can swim.

But really, what is your point here? This statement doesnt really say anything for or against MT, its just pointing out the obvious. and the obvious thing you're pointing out isnt even a problem. Consider CCP is a company who's sole goal is to make money. Just like every single other company out there. Just like that mom+pop shop down the corner. No different.

Hohepa Marstolt
Posted - 2011.07.01 01:16:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Venekar
Everything in life is pay to win. Just how it works. If you are broke go work harder and play less games buy a better computer and the graphics wont be an issue. This game is already pay to win. You can buy Plex and sell it for ISK lol. Nothing wrong with it. I think there are just a lot of people who hate on people that have. Its as old as time. Haves and the have not's. Have not's never want to look in the mirror and realize the reason they are a have not, MOST of the time is their own fault. <---- Well at least if you live in America. Some countries you truly have no control to change anything no matter how hard you work.


Everything about your post is sad. Do not reproduce. This is for your own good.

Bravix
Caldari
Dark Circle Enforcement
Posted - 2011.07.01 01:19:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
Isk sink is when isk leaves the game, this just swirls it around a bit. The shop itself a plex sink, and therefor a Real money sink.


Dolphins can swim.

But really, what is your point here? This statement doesnt really say anything for or against MT, its just pointing out the obvious. and the obvious thing you're pointing out isnt even a problem. Consider CCP is a company who's sole goal is to make money. Just like every single other company out there. Just like that mom+pop shop down the corner. No different.


He was referring to a previous post which he failed to quote.

Hohepa Marstolt
Posted - 2011.07.01 01:20:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
Isk sink is when isk leaves the game, this just swirls it around a bit. The shop itself a plex sink, and therefor a Real money sink.


Dolphins can swim.

But really, what is your point here? This statement doesnt really say anything for or against MT, its just pointing out the obvious. and the obvious thing you're pointing out isnt even a problem. Consider CCP is a company who's sole goal is to make money. Just like every single other company out there. Just like that mom+pop shop down the corner. No different.


I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.

Venekar
Posted - 2011.07.01 01:23:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
Originally by: Venekar
Everything in life is pay to win. Just how it works. If you are broke go work harder and play less games buy a better computer and the graphics wont be an issue. This game is already pay to win. You can buy Plex and sell it for ISK lol. Nothing wrong with it. I think there are just a lot of people who hate on people that have. Its as old as time. Haves and the have not's. Have not's never want to look in the mirror and realize the reason they are a have not, MOST of the time is their own fault. <---- Well at least if you live in America. Some countries you truly have no control to change anything no matter how hard you work.


Everything about your post is sad. Do not reproduce. This is for your own good.




I have two boys, best thing that has ever happened to me besides my wife. I am a very happy man.

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.01 01:27:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 01/07/2011 01:36:19
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.
Actually the OP is somewhat correct. though i do not agree with removing the paid subscription model. (it would be nice... but get real.) non-vanity MT is 100% fine and non-game breaking. Heres why;

1) In order to buy a NeXMachariel you need to trade in a regular Machariel in addition to Aur (trade in system as stated by ccp) Thus it does not break ingame economy by spawning 'ships out of nowhere'

2) You can already pay2win by purchacing GTC's and buying a 100mil SP character and titan.

3) regular market items are able to be purchaced with ether Isk or money (via gtc/plex)

4) NeX store items are able to be purchaced with ether money or Isk (Use isk to buy Plex, use plex to buy Aur)


You see, now you have no legs to stand on.

Hohepa Marstolt
Posted - 2011.07.01 01:32:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Hohepa Marstolt on 01/07/2011 01:32:07
Originally by: Venekar
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
Originally by: Venekar
Everything in life is pay to win. Just how it works. If you are broke go work harder and play less games buy a better computer and the graphics wont be an issue. This game is already pay to win. You can buy Plex and sell it for ISK lol. Nothing wrong with it. I think there are just a lot of people who hate on people that have. Its as old as time. Haves and the have not's. Have not's never want to look in the mirror and realize the reason they are a have not, MOST of the time is their own fault. <---- Well at least if you live in America. Some countries you truly have no control to change anything no matter how hard you work.


Everything about your post is sad. Do not reproduce. This is for your own good.



I have two boys, best thing that has ever happened to me besides my wife. I am a very happy man.


Alright, you win, I will give you the post I was summing up.

People play games to get away from that type of thing, its called escapism.

I'm guessing your the one that hates people that have, where is your monocle?

America is not special.

Venekar
Posted - 2011.07.01 01:34:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: Hohepa Marstolt
I'm pointing out that OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, seeing as she does not understand the very things she is attempting to converse.
Actually the OP is correct. non-vanity MT is 100% fine and non-game breaking. Heres why;

1) In order to buy a NeXMachariel you need to trade in a regular Machariel in addition to Aur (trade in system as stated by ccp) Thus it does not break ingame economy by spawning 'ships out of nowhere'

2) You can already pay2win by purchacing GTC's and buying a 100mil SP character and titan.

3) regular market items are able to be purchaced with ether Isk or money (via gtc/plex)

4) NeX store items are able to be purchaced with ether money or Isk (Use isk to buy Plex, use plex to buy Aur)


You see, now you have no legs to stand on.



True


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