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Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:53:00 - [1]
 

Buying a product from a company doesn't award you any rights with regard to that company. I can buy stuff from the grocery store for years and years.

That doesn't mean that I have any right to tell the grocery store what to do or how to do it.

The groceries are not a fundamental right, and the store itself is not a democracy. If the store does things I don't like, I go to a different store.

If I really care about the store, I buy shares in it until I have a controlling or compelling interest in it. Then I have the privilege of making suggestions.

If I really really cared, I would get a job at the company that had some influence and make a difference that way.

But buying stuff from the company isn't the same as buying a part of the company. The idea that anyone can demand stuff from CCP is completely absurd. You are living in a dreamworld that has no connection to reality.

You are paying for a service. If you don't like it, go find another service. You certainly have no grounds to issue mandates about the corporate strategy.

What exactly is it you think companies do to expand their markets and profits? The good ones use a hit product to fund other products. All this moaning about wod and dust is just stupidity. Of course they aren't making money yet, you dolts! They haven't been released!

Good grief. It's like some of you have never had a job.

Adam Smyth
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:59:00 - [2]
 

Unfortunately your analogy (such as it is) is fundamentally flawed.

I think I catch the merest wisp of a poor argument but do not accept either its logic or the basic premise.

Rion Deteisan
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:01:00 - [3]
 

Dear Mr Grocery store owner:

Please don't remove beef in exchange for dog meat.

Thanks,
Rion

OCHOYTNIK
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:01:00 - [4]
 

What if the Grocery store owner was your friend and you couldn't get those brands anywhere else?

What if you didn't want to see that grocery store shut down becasue that's where you met your wife and half your friends?

What if they started doing a special on dog turds one day? Would you warn them? Sure. What if they don't listen? You'd have to make them listen, leave, make them lonely, make them realise what it's like to be alone for a week. Maybe they come around, and maybe they'd fix the damn fridge/ cyno effect like you've been bugging them.

Good grief, it's like you've never had a really good grocery store to go to.

Juliette DuBois
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:02:00 - [5]
 

Argument is that they are using too little to maintain and update their current product and too much on their new extensions. EVE is not Coca-Cola or something that is perfect as it is. Razz

Rekindle
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:06:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux



You are paying for a service.


1 a service that has changed
2 I wonder now, what the real cost of the service is and what purpose my $15 serves.

CCP wants cake and to eat it too.

Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:08:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
**** the customer, the company is always right.


FTFY

CLONE 9
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:08:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
Buying a product from a company doesn't award you any rights with regard to that company. I can buy stuff from the grocery store for years and years.

That doesn't mean that I have any right to tell the grocery store what to do or how to do it.

The groceries are not a fundamental right, and the store itself is not a democracy. If the store does things I don't like, I go to a different store.

If I really care about the store, I buy shares in it until I have a controlling or compelling interest in it. Then I have the privilege of making suggestions.

If I really really cared, I would get a job at the company that had some influence and make a difference that way.

But buying stuff from the company isn't the same as buying a part of the company. The idea that anyone can demand stuff from CCP is completely absurd. You are living in a dreamworld that has no connection to reality.

You are paying for a service. If you don't like it, go find another service. You certainly have no grounds to issue mandates about the corporate strategy.

What exactly is it you think companies do to expand their markets and profits? The good ones use a hit product to fund other products. All this moaning about wod and dust is just stupidity. Of course they aren't making money yet, you dolts! They haven't been released!

Good grief. It's like some of you have never had a job.


Imagine if you loved rice .. and the store only sold gold plated rice that you needed to eat mid flight with a jet pack? Where does your argument stand then?

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:14:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Rekindle



CCP wants cake and to eat it too.


That phrase sounds familiar. Someone used it, but who?

Oh it was me discussing people who expect to be taken seriously when they threaten to quit, but keep playing, posting and talking about the next fanfest.

Mmmmm! Cake.

Mr Epeen Cool

Kitsune Sakai
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:15:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Kitsune Sakai on 30/06/2011 19:15:47
Originally by: Tron Flux
Buying a product from a company doesn't award you any rights with regard to that company. I can buy stuff from the grocery store for years and years.

That doesn't mean that I have any right to tell the grocery store what to do or how to do it.


But if it's a grocer you like it's nicer to give it fair warning before you take it's business elsewhere. And if he replies: "hah! We'll see what you really do!" you'd be pretty miffed.

Originally by: Tron Flux
The groceries are not a fundamental right


I'm going to stop you here a bit. You're dead wrong on this one. Read up on human rights sometime. Okies? Now back to business:

Originally by: Tron Flux
, and the store itself is not a democracy. If the store does things I don't like, I go to a different store.


Without saying goodbye? That's really rude of you. Or just patholgically conflict-adverse. (In the last case you really shouldn't be playing EVE.

Originally by: Tron Flux
If I really care about the store, I buy shares in it until I have a controlling or compelling interest in it. Then I have the privilege of making suggestions.


(Warning- I'm going to use some caps here) BIG HINT:
Most really good stores aren't for sale. Most value good customer suggestions anyway. 'Cause taking reasonable care of customers is good business.

Originally by: Tron Flux
If I really really cared, I would get a job at the company that had some influence and make a difference that way.

There's a really big difference between caring for buying a thing, or caring for making/selling the thing. I really like my butcher. If I wanted to cut up meat all day he wouldn't be that important to me.

Originally by: Tron Flux
But buying stuff from the company isn't the same as buying a part of the company. The idea that anyone can demand stuff from CCP is completely absurd. You are living in a dreamworld that has no connection to reality.

You are paying for a service. If you don't like it, go find another service. You certainly have no grounds to issue mandates about the corporate strategy.

What exactly is it you think companies do to expand their markets and profits? The good ones use a hit product to fund other products. All this moaning about wod and dust is just stupidity. Of course they aren't making money yet, you dolts! They haven't been released!

Good grief. It's like some of you have never had a job.


It rather looks like you never had a job. Or at least never thought of business/customer interface. Which unless you're cleaning toilets at night when no-one is there or something like that most likely make you really bad at your job and stifles your career possibility. You should really start training on RL empathy and reasoning skills. They are trainable, and they really help.

(edit: Messed-up HTML -good I'm not a programmer...)

Mithrasith
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:17:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Mithrasith on 30/06/2011 19:18:46
Originally by: Tron Flux
Buying a product from a company doesn't award you any rights with regard to that company. I can buy stuff from the grocery store for years and years.

That doesn't mean that I have any right to tell the grocery store what to do or how to do it.

The groceries are not a fundamental right, and the store itself is not a democracy. If the store does things I don't like, I go to a different store.

If I really care about the store, I buy shares in it until I have a controlling or compelling interest in it. Then I have the privilege of making suggestions.

If I really really cared, I would get a job at the company that had some influence and make a difference that way.

But buying stuff from the company isn't the same as buying a part of the company. The idea that anyone can demand stuff from CCP is completely absurd. You are living in a dreamworld that has no connection to reality.

You are paying for a service. If you don't like it, go find another service. You certainly have no grounds to issue mandates about the corporate strategy.

What exactly is it you think companies do to expand their markets and profits? The good ones use a hit product to fund other products. All this moaning about wod and dust is just stupidity. Of course they aren't making money yet, you dolts! They haven't been released!

Good grief. It's like some of you have never had a job.


Oi Vei. At the risk of wasting my time, in an attempt to educate someone who probably isnt capable of understanding, Ill explain to you why you are incorrect in very simple terms.

Companies need customers to survive.

Customers = revenue.

EVE is not the juggernaut of MMO's, and is a rather Niche market.

No customers, no EVE.

Customers angry. EVE is running out of cash.

Poor management decisions are made.

EVE can go 1 of three routes: 1) Quick crash and burn (unlikely)

2) slow death spiral (Very likely)

3) Correct its course of action and return to the fundamentals that made it a successful business (unlikely).

The purpose of the b*tching is to attempt to get CCP to see the error of their decisions, and move to #3 (and it isnt just this one decision, this has been mounting for the last 2 years, while the player base grew more and more concerned)

Lastly - a grocery store sells FOOD. CCP sells ENTERTAINMENT. One of those, and Ill let you guess which, is much more fundamental to survival, and is necessary.
Hint: It isnt EVE.

Harisdrop
Gallente
Vindicate and Deliverance
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:22:00 - [12]
 

I deal with customers that think they are always right until I explain.

Sometimes what you want is not our business plan and sometimes out scope for our current offering.

If you dont like it there is something out there that might make you happier but sometimes sadder. Suck it up and live with the good parts.

Clarabelle
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:24:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Clarabelle on 30/06/2011 19:29:58
Edited by: Clarabelle on 30/06/2011 19:25:05
This isn't a service. It's a game. A beautiful unique game about a universe, a single universe. CCP may provide us the tools but make no mistake, this game is created and owned by the people who play it and give it life. These people have every right to voice opinion and make demands, no matter how much that may differ from the current corporate trajectory of CCP.

The only thing that this situation needs is good constructive and consistent engagement with the community. CCP ceased to listen some time ago, and this is why we now have the desperately sad situation of needing to talk via elected intermediaries. Like warring partners at the divorce courts.



Mithrasith
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:26:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Harisdrop
I deal with customers that think they are always right until I explain.

Sometimes what you want is not our business plan and sometimes out scope for our current offering.

If you dont like it there is something out there that might make you happier but sometimes sadder. Suck it up and live with the good parts.


Completely agreed. I also have worked for years in a software based vendor business, and as much as you would like to satisfy everyone, you cant.

That being said - this isnt the issue to me. Its CCP's attitude. Terms like "Golden Goose" and statements like "They talk a lot but lets see what they do" (which amounts to a taunt/threat) and numerous other changes and statements over the last 2 years (pretty much anything that Zulu has said) indicate that they DO NOT respect their customer base, nor do they appreciate their customers.

In a word, Arrogance. And yes, I have decided to take my money elsewhere. I think I have like 2-3 days left on this account and that's it.

gfldex
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:32:00 - [15]
 

Does you little grocery store got a customer counsel? In the moment CCP allowed their paying customers to elect representatives they changed the rules in a way they did not fully understand. It can be pretty hard to close a can of worms.

Kitsune Sakai
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:34:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Harisdrop
I deal with customers that think they are always right until I explain.

Sometimes what you want is not our business plan and sometimes out scope for our current offering.

If you dont like it there is something out there that might make you happier but sometimes sadder. Suck it up and live with the good parts.


You're not giving much details here - but obviously you listen. And that's the key part. Customers are not always right of course, but not listening to them in an emphatic manner is very bad for business.

CowQueen MMXII
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:57:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: CowQueen MMXII on 30/06/2011 19:57:49
Originally by: Mithrasith

Completely agreed. I also have worked for years in a software based vendor business, and as much as you would like to satisfy everyone, you cant.



And the more customers you have, the harder it gets.

Originally by: Mithrasith

That being said - this isnt the issue to me. Its CCP's attitude. Terms like "Golden Goose" and statements like "They talk a lot but lets see what they do" (which amounts to a taunt/threat) and numerous other changes and statements over the last 2 years (pretty much anything that Zulu has said) indicate that they DO NOT respect their customer base, nor do they appreciate their customers.



Zulu's choice of words is of course unfortunate at best, but anyway I can relate to that somehow: people voice their opinions the loudest when the have something to say (or better: to complain about). Especially in an environment where no direct communication is possible and they aren't asked directly. In these forums, the moderate opinions are in minority and not because all Eve players have rather decisive opinions, but rather because you don't have the urge to tell everyone that you are just sitting there and wait for the result or don't really care.

But you can look at what everyone is doing and that will tell you the whole story. Might be too late though...

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.06.30 20:00:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Juliette DuBois
EVE is not Coca-Cola or something that is perfect as it is. Razz


No, but they could learn a lot from the New Coke fiasco.

Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.30 20:02:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
Buying a product from a company doesn't award you any rights with regard to that company. I can buy stuff from the grocery store for years and years.

That doesn't mean that I have any right to tell the grocery store what to do or how to do it.

The groceries are not a fundamental right, and the store itself is not a democracy. If the store does things I don't like, I go to a different store.

If I really care about the store, I buy shares in it until I have a controlling or compelling interest in it. Then I have the privilege of making suggestions.

If I really really cared, I would get a job at the company that had some influence and make a difference that way.

But buying stuff from the company isn't the same as buying a part of the company. The idea that anyone can demand stuff from CCP is completely absurd. You are living in a dreamworld that has no connection to reality.

You are paying for a service. If you don't like it, go find another service. You certainly have no grounds to issue mandates about the corporate strategy.

What exactly is it you think companies do to expand their markets and profits? The good ones use a hit product to fund other products. All this moaning about wod and dust is just stupidity. Of course they aren't making money yet, you dolts! They haven't been released!

Good grief. It's like some of you have never had a job.

Swing and miss.
The reality is, we know CCP NEEDS us to be its customers. This is their only profitable product, and if they dont do what WE want, then we will go find that other service. Sure we don't legally have any say in what they do, but if CCP wants to remain in business...

Reeper 2435
Posted - 2011.06.30 20:03:00 - [20]
 

I don't care about the monocles or how much they cost... no issue to me. What i do care about is them selling uber ships and uber ammo. I don't mind them making it an upgrade like faction ammo where you must first have faction then upgrade to "premium" so long as it doesn't tilt the balance of the game.

Bigpoint did that with SeaBattle to where it was no longer sailing around in old pirate ships swapping broadsides. It became a game of I can afford uber boat with 500 cannons and i can blow whole fleets away like a shotgun blast (it was seriously like that). Then it became a "free" game that in order to compete you had to start "keeping up with the joneses". I had friends literally lose their homes in that game because they were to stupid to walk away attempting to prove their credit card had more space than the poor lost soul playing across from him.

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.30 20:07:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Rion Deteisan
Dear Mr Grocery store owner:

Please don't remove beef in exchange for dog meat.

Thanks,
Rion


Yes, I was talking about being a grocery store owner, and I was talking about how I would run a grocery store. +1 to your reading comprehension skill.

I was talking about being a consumer.

Here's a shorter version:

Buying a product isn't the same as buying a piece of the company that makes it. You have no standing to demand anything from a company that you don't either own or work for.

You can a) ask nicely
or b) go somewhere else

Demanding things is absurd. If you are not one of the people who "demands" certain things from CCP, then this post was not directed at you.

Harisdrop
Gallente
Vindicate and Deliverance
Posted - 2011.06.30 20:12:00 - [22]
 

Being a 2003 player, I can say nothing has changed with CCP.
They still write blogs. I dont think they have to do this. Its not in any contract agreement with its players.
They still let you rant on the forums. Its their website and normal admins would drop any negative rant like "whop there it is"
There was a rule once that you could not quote dev's at all!
The only sandbox we have is what the give us ingame not the actual game mechanics.

From my point of view the game has changed more rapidly than any game out there without changing the core. PVP is the core. Candy and fluff that they modify is genius. With most surface players it makes articles and blogs and tweets and social media rants, this is the new media. Soo keep up your conbstant things you all do. I wish I had 200 people making a fuss about my software and keeping the forums fluid.


EVE dies when everyone is happy and the forums are quiet and there is not 40k online killing eachother making industrials happy.

Kitsune Sakai
Posted - 2011.06.30 20:13:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
Originally by: Rion Deteisan
Dear Mr Grocery store owner:

Please don't remove beef in exchange for dog meat.

Thanks,
Rion


Yes, I was talking about being a grocery store owner, and I was talking about how I would run a grocery store. +1 to your reading comprehension skill.

I was talking about being a consumer.

Here's a shorter version:

Buying a product isn't the same as buying a piece of the company that makes it. You have no standing to demand anything from a company that you don't either own or work for.

You can a) ask nicely
or b) go somewhere else

Demanding things is absurd. If you are not one of the people who "demands" certain things from CCP, then this post was not directed at you.


C o m m u n i c a t i o n s k i l l s

Work on them.

And no-one is making demands. We are just telling the store owner what we think. The only problem is that he's a wee bit dense, so certain measures are needed. Like canceling accounts and making it very clear why.

It's hard to get through to people who think of 1000$ jeans all day.

LHA Tarawa
Posted - 2011.06.30 20:14:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
Buying a product from a company doesn't award you any rights with regard to that company. I can buy stuff from the grocery store for years and years.


Right...which is why I just unsubbed all 4 of my accounts.

Myfanwy Heimdal
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.30 20:14:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Rekindle



CCP wants cake and to eat it too.


That phrase sounds familiar. Someone used it, but who?

Oh it was me discussing people who expect to be taken seriously when they threaten to quit, but keep playing, posting and talking about the next fanfest.

Mmmmm! Cake.

Mr Epeen Cool


<mode pedant=on>
It really should be 'to eat your cake and have it'.

Having a cake and eating it isn't hard to do, the trick is to still having the cake after eating it.
</mode>

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.30 20:20:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Kitsune Sakai
Edited by: Kitsune Sakai on 30/06/2011 19:15:47
Originally by: Tron Flux
Buying a product from a company doesn't award you any rights with regard to that company. I can buy stuff from the grocery store for years and years.

That doesn't mean that I have any right to tell the grocery store what to do or how to do it.


But if it's a grocer you like it's nicer to give it fair warning before you take it's business elsewhere. And if he replies: "hah! We'll see what you really do!" you'd be pretty miffed.

No I would not be miffed. I don't invest any emotion at all in the store I go to. I go to the store that gives me the most of what I want at the best price. I do the same with games.

Originally by: Tron Flux
The groceries are not a fundamental right


I'm going to stop you here a bit. You're dead wrong on this one. Read up on human rights sometime. Okies?

I've read a few things about human rights. Food isn't one of them.

Now back to business:

Originally by: Tron Flux
, and the store itself is not a democracy. If the store does things I don't like, I go to a different store.


Without saying goodbye? That's really rude of you. Or just patholgically conflict-adverse. (In the last case you really shouldn't be playing EVE.

I think of it as having an honest understanding of my relevance to the store. i.e. none.

Originally by: Tron Flux
If I really care about the store, I buy shares in it until I have a controlling or compelling interest in it. Then I have the privilege of making suggestions.


(Warning- I'm going to use some caps here) BIG HINT:
Most really good stores aren't for sale. Most value good customer suggestions anyway. 'Cause taking reasonable care of customers is good business.

So True. It's impossible to buy stock in Target, Barnes&Noble, or any other publicly traded stock on the market. Where's the sarcasm tag? But seriously, "reasonable care of customers" is the heart of the issue.

Originally by: Tron Flux
If I really really cared, I would get a job at the company that had some influence and make a difference that way.

There's a really big difference between caring for buying a thing, or caring for making/selling the thing. I really like my butcher. If I wanted to cut up meat all day he wouldn't be that important to me.

That's the difference between you and me. I don't care about the butcher. I care about the beef he sells me. If it's good, I buy it. If it sucks, I find a different butcher. And I tend to buy large cuts and butcher them myself

Originally by: Tron Flux
But buying stuff from the company isn't the same as buying a part of the company. The idea that anyone can demand stuff from CCP is completely absurd. You are living in a dreamworld that has no connection to reality.

You are paying for a service. If you don't like it, go find another service. You certainly have no grounds to issue mandates about the corporate strategy.

What exactly is it you think companies do to expand their markets and profits? The good ones use a hit product to fund other products. All this moaning about wod and dust is just stupidity. Of course they aren't making money yet, you dolts! They haven't been released!

Good grief. It's like some of you have never had a job.


It rather looks like you never had a job. Or at least never thought of business/customer interface. Which unless you're cleaning toilets at night when no-one is there or something like that most likely make you really bad at your job and stifles your career possibility. You should really start training on RL empathy and reasoning skills. They are trainable, and they really help.

I'm thinking of the customer side of the interface right now. That's what I'm talking about right this very minute. I'm talking about how rational people behave in a capitalist environment.

(edit: Messed-up HTML -good I'm not a programmer...)

Ris Dnalor
Minmatar
Fleet of Doom
Posted - 2011.06.30 20:22:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
Buying a product from a company doesn't award you any rights with regard to that company. I can buy stuff from the grocery store for years and years.

That doesn't mean that I have any right to tell the grocery store what to do or how to do it.

The groceries are not a fundamental right, and the store itself is not a democracy. If the store does things I don't like, I go to a different store.

If I really care about the store, I buy shares in it until I have a controlling or compelling interest in it. Then I have the privilege of making suggestions.

If I really really cared, I would get a job at the company that had some influence and make a difference that way.

But buying stuff from the company isn't the same as buying a part of the company. The idea that anyone can demand stuff from CCP is completely absurd. You are living in a dreamworld that has no connection to reality.

You are paying for a service. If you don't like it, go find another service. You certainly have no grounds to issue mandates about the corporate strategy.

What exactly is it you think companies do to expand their markets and profits? The good ones use a hit product to fund other products. All this moaning about wod and dust is just stupidity. Of course they aren't making money yet, you dolts! They haven't been released!

Good grief. It's like some of you have never had a job.


as someone who's been running busineses for 20 years I can tell you that I prefer it when my customers tell me about their dis-satisfaction rather than just leave, because I know from experience that if 1 person tells you about a perceived problem, there are many more that, as you suggest, just left without saying a word and never came back.

So, I value feedback. Is it all valid? of course not. Is it all something that I can change? or even want to change? no. Am I disrespectful to the folks that give me feedback? Never. Because information is always useful, and if someone cares enough to take the time to give you their thoughts on your business, you should be respectful and listen. It's not only common courtesy, but it's good business. Listening to all the "bad" suggestions gives you a reputation that you listen and care, and ultimately yields some "good" suggestions that you end up being thankful for... and ends up making your business more profitable.

The fact isn't that people want to tell CCP how to run their business, on the contrary, they want to let CCP know when they're ****ed off. This merely indicates that they enjoy the service that CCP has provided so much that if it changes it'll make them unhappy that they can't have it any more. Some are just jumping on the band-wagon, sure, but many are voicing a real opinion, and if it's not heard they will leave. And I'm sure CCP is aware that while many of the complainers will stay, there are going to be many silent folks that will leave as well without saying a word, if changes are unliked.

Now, CCP isn't dumb. I don't like the changes, but I think CCP will gain more revenue than they lose. Eve will be different, and I won't like it, but that doesn't mean it won't be more popular overall.

SO yea, CCP is going to do what they want. However, to tell people they should not express their opinion is just stupid.

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.30 20:23:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Kitsune Sakai
Originally by: Tron Flux
Originally by: Rion Deteisan
Dear Mr Grocery store owner:

Please don't remove beef in exchange for dog meat.

Thanks,
Rion


Yes, I was talking about being a grocery store owner, and I was talking about how I would run a grocery store. +1 to your reading comprehension skill.

I was talking about being a consumer.

Here's a shorter version:

Buying a product isn't the same as buying a piece of the company that makes it. You have no standing to demand anything from a company that you don't either own or work for.

You can a) ask nicely
or b) go somewhere else

Demanding things is absurd. If you are not one of the people who "demands" certain things from CCP, then this post was not directed at you.


C o m m u n i c a t i o n s k i l l s

Work on them.

And no-one is making demands.


Do a quick general discusion forum search for the words "We Demand" and come back and tell me that no one is demanding anything. Like I said, if that's not you, this isn't directed at you.

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.30 20:25:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Tron Flux
Buying a product from a company doesn't award you any rights with regard to that company. I can buy stuff from the grocery store for years and years.

That doesn't mean that I have any right to tell the grocery store what to do or how to do it.

The groceries are not a fundamental right, and the store itself is not a democracy. If the store does things I don't like, I go to a different store.

If I really care about the store, I buy shares in it until I have a controlling or compelling interest in it. Then I have the privilege of making suggestions.

If I really really cared, I would get a job at the company that had some influence and make a difference that way.

But buying stuff from the company isn't the same as buying a part of the company. The idea that anyone can demand stuff from CCP is completely absurd. You are living in a dreamworld that has no connection to reality.

You are paying for a service. If you don't like it, go find another service. You certainly have no grounds to issue mandates about the corporate strategy.

What exactly is it you think companies do to expand their markets and profits? The good ones use a hit product to fund other products. All this moaning about wod and dust is just stupidity. Of course they aren't making money yet, you dolts! They haven't been released!

Good grief. It's like some of you have never had a job.

Swing and miss.
The reality is, we know CCP NEEDS us to be its customers. This is their only profitable product, and if they dont do what WE want, then we will go find that other service. Sure we don't legally have any say in what they do, but if CCP wants to remain in business...


I don't think CCP needs you. Sure, they want your money, but they don't need you.

Ris Dnalor
Minmatar
Fleet of Doom
Posted - 2011.06.30 20:26:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Tron Flux
Buying a product from a company doesn't award you any rights with regard to that company. I can buy stuff from the grocery store for years and years.

That doesn't mean that I have any right to tell the grocery store what to do or how to do it.

The groceries are not a fundamental right, and the store itself is not a democracy. If the store does things I don't like, I go to a different store.

If I really care about the store, I buy shares in it until I have a controlling or compelling interest in it. Then I have the privilege of making suggestions.

If I really really cared, I would get a job at the company that had some influence and make a difference that way.

But buying stuff from the company isn't the same as buying a part of the company. The idea that anyone can demand stuff from CCP is completely absurd. You are living in a dreamworld that has no connection to reality.

You are paying for a service. If you don't like it, go find another service. You certainly have no grounds to issue mandates about the corporate strategy.

What exactly is it you think companies do to expand their markets and profits? The good ones use a hit product to fund other products. All this moaning about wod and dust is just stupidity. Of course they aren't making money yet, you dolts! They haven't been released!

Good grief. It's like some of you have never had a job.

Swing and miss.
The reality is, we know CCP NEEDS us to be its customers. This is their only profitable product, and if they dont do what WE want, then we will go find that other service. Sure we don't legally have any say in what they do, but if CCP wants to remain in business...


I don't think CCP needs you. Sure, they want your money, but they don't need you.


to CCP there is no difference between me and my money...


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