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Boaz Hedion Merkava
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:34:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Boaz Hedion Merkava on 30/06/2011 19:37:52
Another something I found, also updated the original (first) post of this thread to add this:

Originally by: @TheMittani
@MaxSingularity We did discuss ship spinning with CCP and what I heard pleased me. One of the bright spots. Can't say details. vOv


(Terrante - we posted at roughly the same time :) I'll add that source to the first post)

Zen Sins
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:34:00 - [62]
 

I predict that tomorrow the CSM will learn that CCP plans on introducing performance-enhancing goods in NeX, or, at the very least, that it will NOT be taken off the table as an option for them...only to be implemented if it's "needed".

If it wasn't bad news, it wouldn't have been scheduled for after all the trivial garbage like ship spinning.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:34:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Mithrasith
Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: T'Laar Bok
Originally by: Boaz Hedion Merkava
Apparently ship spinning / the old hangar is never coming back.


Thats enough for me. No interest whatsoever in WIS or being forced to load the environment, I'm a spaceship not a ken doll. The last 7 years has been great fun and I'll miss a lot of people but the game is going where I do not wish to go. The last of my 8 accounts expires in 4 days.

bye.



You're thick to think that it would be optional in the firstplace.



while I agree Miilla that to many of us its obvious the direction this has taken (forced CQ in order to produce MT) I think its also safe to say that the way Incarna was presented for the first few years was certainly that it was optional. So no, I dont agree with you that people are "thick" if they didnt conclude based on the past couple of week of events that CQ would be optional.

I do believe however that many of the players havent fully grasped yet that this is the first time that CCP has openly displayed such a disgregard (and even disrespect)for the player base, and if successful, will only increase



I belive they are thick at this stage to still post the same drivel about "optional" Incarna.

The business decision has been made, CSM stated that it was a "communication breakdown" that caused all you hopefulls to keep posting your drivel about "optional" Incarna.

That communication is being cleared up now, I think they are going to use sock puppets (CSM) to present it in easy bite sizes (baby spoons) for your consumption.

Novak Sarin
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:34:00 - [64]
 

For the sake of clarity, can we please ELIMINATE "gold ammo" from the vocabulary completely?

The fact that one person said it does not make it "aka".

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:36:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Novak Sarin
For the sake of clarity, can we please ELIMINATE "gold ammo" from the vocabulary completely?

The fact that one person said it does not make it "aka".



Yes that is being cleared up on DAY TWO. DAY TWO is where they focus on deciding the actual COLOUR of the ammo.

Attaia
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:36:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Attaia on 30/06/2011 19:36:37
Originally by: Boaz Hedion Merkava
This is CCP saying "We are willing to sacrifice immersion, usability and client performance to improve virtual goods sales. We could integrate the old and the new in a way that all players would appreciate, but we can probably squeeze more money out of them this way, so this is the way we've chosen."

CCP is clearly prioritizing virtual goods sales over improving or maintaining the quality of game experience for paying subscribers.


+1. This is not fu**ing barbie online. Forcing me to load bloated, buggy enviroment when I just want to get more ammo is a game breaking "feature" for me, at this point I add myself to the "subscription cancelled" crowd. Fu** you, CCP a**holes.

Psychlo
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:36:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Kellaen
The reason that CQ will never be optional in the sense most of us want has already been stated. If you're not forced to look at spacebarbies with stupid hats and $1000 pants, then you have no motivation to partake in the activity and send them money yourself.

Looks like it's going to be another :riot: weekend, given the question anyone cares about is being held off for tomorrow, Friday, which is the best time to say things people don't want to hear.


It will be a quite weekend either way. Either they report things that make the customer base happy and we can live with in which we resume enjoying

or

We leave the game to the barbies.

Either way. . .quite weekend.

Mixne
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:38:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: verde shrimp
Before this emergency CSM summit is over it would behoove CCP to strongly consider adding an option to board your ship in the hanger or default to ship spinning and have an exit to captain's quarters button.

Being forced into captain's quarters when docked is a very bad change and other than a number of new bugs introduced, the worst thing about incarna.



Yet more clueless wonders keep posting the same drivel about "optional" Incarna.



The world has a lot of naive idealists, particularly in younger age brackets (which tend to comprise a large portion of video game player bases). I understand what you're saying completely. CCP is a business, EVE is a product. EVE will be made to generate the maximum revenue and they will likely want to make it fun too, so people keep playing and spending.

RavenNyx
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:41:00 - [69]
 

The ultimate "F you" CCP could do right now, would be to make ship-spinning available in the NEX-store :)

Also, quoting myself in a CSM-delegate thread:
Originally by: RavenNyx
So, MT is here to stay...

@ the entire CSM:
You just lost EvE... Did you even rip CCP a new one for introducing MT, after having lied about it? How can any form of explanation of the MT make me feel less butthurt, when I _KNOW_ CCP thinks of me as a money-maker, and tries to squeeze me for even more cash (they even wrote that in clear text "somewhere")? CCP F'ed up - BIG TIME. _CCP_ needs to make amends. The players, through the CSM needs to admit or accept nothing what-so-ever. Please, members of the CSM; let CCP know that THEY are the ones who need to listen, not you. We, the players/customers, have promised nothing, and will never promise anything - that's not how a business-relationship like this works. You are there to demand stuff on behalf of the players. You need to let CCP know that the customers will stop paying if they don't get their act together. THAT'S why you are there, CSM-delegates, atleast if you feel you are representing THIS player.

CCP is lying, being condecending and viewing the players of New Eden as their subjects, not the *customers* who actually pays their bills... How can anything short of an immediate removal of MTs all together and a sincere apology make me feel LESS butthurt?

I don't wanna' hear about diplomacy, or politics. I don't wanna' read about "agreements". I want a HUGE apology from the CEO of CCP, and legally binding contract written in blood (or some video with Hilmar himself that can be downloaded/saved in some way), that any micro/macro-transactions in EvE Online, will NOT go beyond vanity-items, EVER. I want a copy of AEON-magazine with an apology, so CCP feels less inclined to run away from their promises. And even then I will view anything with a CCP logo on it with sceptisism for a long time to come. How can I do anything else?

Source



Portmanteau
Gallente
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:41:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Psychlo
Originally by: Kellaen
The reason that CQ will never be optional in the sense most of us want has already been stated. If you're not forced to look at spacebarbies with stupid hats and $1000 pants, then you have no motivation to partake in the activity and send them money yourself.

Looks like it's going to be another :riot: weekend, given the question anyone cares about is being held off for tomorrow, Friday, which is the best time to say things people don't want to hear.


It will be a quite weekend either way. Either they report things that make the customer base happy and we can live with in which we resume enjoying

or

We leave the game to the barbies.

Either way. . .quite weekend.


I doubt that, If they come out with the wrong answers I think it could quite a riotous few day as ppl run down their remaining time

Tetragammatron Prime
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:41:00 - [71]
 

Sometimes it seems we would get better results from send some monkeys over there on a plane and they can just finger their butholes and jack off on the table.

Buck Plimpton
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:43:00 - [72]
 

Sounds like more subs will be let out to pasture lands. I hope they can come up with something of an agreement but it isn't really likely. The loss forever of ship spinning is a bigger issue than they realize it seems, I for one turned off CQ 5 minutes after it was online. Fingers crossed on a successful talk process!

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:43:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Tetragammatron Prime
Sometimes it seems we would get better results from send some monkeys over there on a plane and they can just finger their butholes and jack off on the table.



I was eating. Thanks.

Kile Kitmoore
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:43:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Boaz Hedion Merkava

UPDATE
Apparently ship spinning / the old hangar is never coming back. Trebor_CSM tweeted about that, I was about to copy that tweet but apparently he removed it (!!) I am not making this up.


Huge LOL, I call BS on that one.

The bottom line, they want to sell stuff and they felt many would not use CQ so they forced it down our throats. They mask this intent by telling us it needs to be one universe or a "seamless" experience, PR spin. See, if your not staring at your avatar every time you dock you can't make that emotional connection and thus not want to buy $60 monocles. Destroying the old hanger and replacing it with CQ was a pure business move and not one born out of technical issues, perhaps this is why CSM is getting this answer well after the fact.

A CSM member might want to understand why that hanger view was removed without consulting them for feedback.

Cydori
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:44:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: CSM Trebor
The Peace Talks - Day One

The first day of the great Incarna Peace Talks is over. I will not attempt to go into incredibly great detail in this posting; I just want to give a broad overview and offer some impressions. To be honest, I'm exhausted and only have a few minutes before dinner.

I want to start by saying that everyone at CCP, and in particular CCP Zulu, was very open and frank about their opinions, and provided any information CSM requested. This was very useful.

In the morning, we discussed issues regarding the rollout of Incarna and the Captain's Quarters. Just about everything people have been *****ing about and then some was discussed in detail -- melting video cards, multiboxing, lighting, the death of ship spinning, just to name a few.

CCP started this meeting by saying something incredibly smart. It gave me hope that the entire summit would be a success, but you will have to wait to find out what it was. Suffer, *****es.

Then, after lunch, we spent over 3 hours discussing the Noble Exchange rollout and virtual goods pricing. This was a very passionate session, to say the least.

CSM got a complete rundown on the overall CCP vanity goods strategy, and it became obvious how a series of mistakes and communications breakdowns -- both internal at CCP, to CSM, and in their messaging to you (and lack thereof) -- resulted in the NEX rollout debacle.

There should be a devblog coming out in the very near future that explains CCP's strategy, puts things into context, and hopefully starts healing this self-inflicted wound. Anyone can shoot themselves in the foot, or the ass, but in this case CCP managed to do both with one shot, which takes real skill.

The day ended with some work-in-progress demos of the other CQs and an establishment. Some nice work, and the Gallente CQ is the best CQ IMHO.

Tomorrow, we will tackle the big question: Does CCP have plans to release game-affecting virtual goods (aka "gold ammo")?

Suggestion of the day: adding a "Just Say NO to Virtual Goods" t-shirt to the Noble Exchange, priced higher than a monocle. Is CCP fearless enough to do it?

End of quote.


Translation: "Everything is just fine and it was all a big misunderstanding. We made lot of progress and heard all sorts of positive information, which, of course, we can't share with you. But trust us, everything is great!"

I hope the CSM is being paid well for their services as PR mouthpiece. What a complete joke EVE has become.


Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:45:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Buck Plimpton
Sounds like more subs will be let out to pasture lands. I hope they can come up with something of an agreement but it isn't really likely. The loss forever of ship spinning is a bigger issue than they realize it seems, I for one turned off CQ 5 minutes after it was online. Fingers crossed on a successful talk process!



By agreement, you mean how to "agree" a "Press Release" then yes, the CSM will proof read CCP's new blog, and then CCP will ignore their annotations and publish it anyway.

Agreement is easy.

Mixne
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:46:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Mixne on 30/06/2011 19:48:59
Originally by: RavenNyx
The ultimate "F you" CCP could do right now, would be to make ship-spinning available in the NEX-store :)



That would be AWESOME! It should also cost 12-24 PLEX.

Edit: It should also give the ability to post short ship spinning videos to the forums.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:46:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Tetragammatron Prime
Sometimes it seems we would get better results from send some monkeys over there on a plane and they can just finger their butholes and jack off on the table.


I was under the impression that is what we are doing.

Darth Vapour
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:48:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Darth Vapour on 30/06/2011 19:48:00
Quote:
CSM got a complete rundown on the overall CCP vanity goods strategy, and it became obvious how a series of mistakes and communications breakdowns -- both internal at CCP, to CSM, and in their messaging to you (and lack thereof) -- resulted in the NEX rollout debacle.


You are now the sixth CSM who keep having to explain how these communications breakdowns keep happening again and again and again and again. And every time we can read how incredibly smart, nice and caring the CCP people are when you meet them in person.

I think as soon as you leave these nice and insightful people are put back into some locked room in the basement and the CCP we all know and love comes out, full of fail and contempt for their customers.

Is there any hope at all of CCP being just a little bit less imcompetent without the CSM holding their hands ?

Palovana
Caldari
Inner Fire Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:49:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Cydori
I hope the CSM is being paid well for their services as PR mouthpiece. What a complete joke EVE has become.




Free round trip to Iceland.

Or at least a free one-way trip to Iceland. They only get paid the return trip if they fall into line like good little sheep, otherwise it's off to the pumice mines for them.

Ilene D'over
Tax Free Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:50:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Boaz Hedion Merkava

Tomorrow, we will tackle the big question: Does CCP have plans to release game-affecting virtual goods (aka "gold ammo")?

A whole day to discuss this? Looks like the answer to "Will there be game changing items available for sale as an MT" is Yes.

Chris Fierce
Caldari
NoD Imperium
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:50:00 - [82]
 

So nothing important talked about then, like broken game mechanics and half assed expansions.

Enjoy your holidays.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:52:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Ilene D'over
Originally by: Boaz Hedion Merkava

Tomorrow, we will tackle the big question: Does CCP have plans to release game-affecting virtual goods (aka "gold ammo")?

A whole day to discuss this? Looks like the answer to "Will there be game changing items available for sale as an MT" is Yes.




Yes, getting an agreement on COLOUR is so hard. They have to get the PANTONE colour cards out, run outside to see the natural colour and not the flourescant effect or blueing effect.

It is like choosing a dress in a store, you have to see it in outside light first.


Azztoroid
Shipwreck cove
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:52:00 - [84]
 

If we block the trade hubs again for lets say more than a week, CCP needs to take direct action....Right now they have the entire world looking werry interestet uto how they will deal with this.

If just 50% of the numbers we had at the first round shows up, we would be able to criple the game to a point where prolonged actions needs to be countered.

I realy dont think CCP can afford more bad publicity, they need this situation solved, and the only way is to compremise, thats why we have the CSM there, thats why i support the CSM.

Let them eat, let the CSM spend abit time alone, they have been sitting to meetings the entire day, its first now they might get a chanse to speak amongs them selfs with out anyone from CCP are at there side......thats why we wait, thats why there is a deadline, to give the CSM time, to make sure THEY are unitet....

Azz

coolzero
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:54:00 - [85]
 

i dont think people mind the nex shop.. it comes down to the most basic question and its one that even the CSM didnt even have to fly to iceland for..

here is comes

WILL THERE BE ANYTHING ELSE THEN VANITY ITEMS BE SOLD IN THE SHOP [ YES ] or [ NO ]

for me its simple, if they are planning to sell stuff give boost, ammo, ship, (in short P2W) then ill quit playing(1 account already unsubbed and one running out, i used a GTC before this mess started.)

i like the CQ, i will love the walking in station, i can live with the NEX shop with vanity item(cuz i dont have to use it i dont care for 1000$ pants.) but i wont stand for P2W

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:54:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Azztoroid
If we block the trade hubs again for lets say more than a week, CCP needs to take direct action....Right now they have the entire world looking werry interestet uto how they will deal with this.

If just 50% of the numbers we had at the first round shows up, we would be able to criple the game to a point where prolonged actions needs to be countered.

I realy dont think CCP can afford more bad publicity, they need this situation solved, and the only way is to compremise, thats why we have the CSM there, thats why i support the CSM.

Let them eat, let the CSM spend abit time alone, they have been sitting to meetings the entire day, its first now they might get a chanse to speak amongs them selfs with out anyone from CCP are at there side......thats why we wait, thats why there is a deadline, to give the CSM time, to make sure THEY are unitet....

Azz


Nobody cares, until you start GANKING FREIGHTERS NON STOP IN AND OUT OF JITA.

Mixne
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:54:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: Ilene D'over
Originally by: Boaz Hedion Merkava

Tomorrow, we will tackle the big question: Does CCP have plans to release game-affecting virtual goods (aka "gold ammo")?

A whole day to discuss this? Looks like the answer to "Will there be game changing items available for sale as an MT" is Yes.




Yes, getting an agreement on COLOUR is so hard. They have to get the PANTONE colour cards out, run outside to see the natural colour and not the flourescant effect or blueing effect.

It is like choosing a dress in a store, you have to see it in outside light first.




It would have been much easier if they could have just used the 'gold' they had originally planned on, but no... no one wanted GOLD.

alexreborn
Invicta.
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:54:00 - [88]
 

Wait... Why is this called peace talks?

Sorry if CCP is taking an "us vs. them" approach to this, not a VERY GOOD way for customer service.

Remember, we are customers. CCP provides a service to us. They are in the customer service industry whether they like it or not. If they want a war with their customers... THEY WONT HAVE ANY.

LOL.

Seriously CCP, you can hire me for your marketing if you like.

octahexx Charante
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:55:00 - [89]
 

well basicly we just wait until tomorrow i dont have high hopes though but i will give it a shot before i uninstall the client for good and stop reading the forums
.
one more day is not much considering the time we waited for a simple answer they cant bull**** it no matter how much they spin it unless your a ******.

i like the monkey idea though.

Green Gloy
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:56:00 - [90]
 

If CCP don't relent on optional CQ/hangar view it would be a real dissapointment.

I don't actually have a problem with CQ itself, in fact I can see the sort immersive opportunities CCP are hoping to introduce long term, and no I don't buy the MT conspiracy, but hey that's my opinion Shocked

However I do have a real practical issue with having to dock into CQ every time, and that's the load time. Maybe it's my PC or connection, but the docking time has gone from pre incarna 10 seconds to CQ 35-40 seconds.

Which as a trader frequenting multiple stations is a real pain, quickly prompting me to disable CQ as the only solution.

I really don't see the problem with a choose default CQ or hangar and a button to board/leave ship, IMHO it would also add to the immersive feeling of being aboard a station.


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