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Koragoni SkyKnight
Amarr
Completely Bored Senseless
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:11:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Kira Summer
Then if you have a Job that you cannot book a couple of days off when something as important as this arises why bother to put yourself up for election. Geddit.


This is complete and utter crap. This situation came up way too late for many to take time off work. Especially since for the US and Canada this is a HOLIDAY WEEKEND!

If I had gone for the CSM I wouldn't be there either. I have plans this weekend, plans that are far more important than an online game. Not to mention a business to run.

To the CSM that were able to make it, thanks for your time.

Discrodia
Gallente
Symbiosis International
Moose Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:11:00 - [122]
 

/popcorn

Now let's see whether EVE actually descends into the inferno or not.

Viking Sven
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:12:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Harcosi
They're going to make a joint statement after the meeting. I'm not sure how long after the meeting though.


Anyone else find it odd that they plan on issuing a joint statement as of the BEGINNING of the meeting? I.e. nothing's been discussed yet, and the CSM ought not to be sure if they're going to be drinking CCP's kool-aid yet.

Amar Azaph
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:12:00 - [124]
 

Time for some new CSM's, or get rid of CSM's all together.

Kane Molou
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:14:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Harcosi
Edited by: Harcosi on 30/06/2011 14:09:58
Originally by: Kane Molou
the CSM needs to start communicating


They're going to make a joint statement after the meeting. I'm not sure how long after the meeting though.


light_speed_i Light Speed Interact
@Trebor_CSM Was the CSM reaction positive to the reasoning, or skeptical?
5 minutes ago

@Trebor_CSM
Robert Woodhead
@light_speed_i Let's just say we think mistakes were made. #csm6 #tweetfleet
3 minutes ago


Can someone keep posting updates from twitter to this thread? It's after midnight here.


After mid night here so can't help there going to bed myself, and honestly a 'joint statement' shouldn't be needed this is 2011 last time i checked, If i can podcast or live stream from rural australia.. with nothing but a 3G phone, then ahh the CSM can do a rolling blog in Iceland, or even better a Live cam run of the meetings.. rather then crappy 72 character msg'n

Snake Scofield
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:14:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Righteous Deeds
Originally by: Snake Scofield
Quote this if you think free expansions are awesome.


Except they're not free, but are funded by subscription revenues. Not a gift, just another kind of business strategy.


No, subscriptions fund gameplay, server costs etc. 10 expansions for everquest 2 over 7 years, none free. 3 major expansions to WoW over 6 years full retail box price. In addition to subscription. Of course you watch the rage should they think of charging to develop a content packed expansion.

Harcosi
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:15:00 - [127]
 

Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
So far we have been doing a post-mortem. Discussions about future come later. #csm6 #tweetfleet
3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:16:00 - [128]
 

You can't be serious. This meeting is nothing but a pr stunt. CCP knows what they are going to do before they meet with CSM. They decided to call the csm meeting for several reasons:
1) To buy time - read ccp pann's post she admitted she was doing that.
2) To appear that they really care what the csm and players says
3) To make it appear they are not reacting to the outrage on the forums.
4) They know CSM6 will help them. CSM 6 will want to make this meeting appear as a success for their individual political gain. So they know csm will lap up what ever concessions CCP already decided to give and claim victory.
5) To try to calm the outrage on the forums. "please wait until after this meeting"

CCP did not call this meeting to hear mittani and company's analysis of how they should run their business. If anyone thinks different they are trulyhopelessly naive.

Its not like they are going to change their mind based on what csm says at this meeting. If anyone wants to know what the players want they can read the boards.



Originally by: Kira Summer
Edited by: Kira Summer on 30/06/2011 14:04:29
well only 8 csm members are in attendance according to twitter. Presumably others couldn't make it.

Short of a family emergency I wonder why those that haven't gone bothered to ask for our votes if they can't attend something in game as important as this.

Does this send an unspoken statement to CCP, do what you like.


Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:17:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Kira Summer
Then if you have a Job that you cannot book a couple of days off when something as important as this arises why bother to put yourself up for election. Geddit.

We will have to see. It might just be that this whole thing, the expansion, the protest, the meeting and the CSM is just all fail.

If it is then those who stayed at home already knew it was coming. If this does not to turn out to be just one disappointment then we need to look at the CSM again. In case of a success will the CSM have gained power as well as trust of the players.

Amber Helfer
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:17:00 - [130]
 

are we going to have to wait 2/3 months to get the minutes of this meeting too?

Harcosi
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:17:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Harcosi on 30/06/2011 14:17:40
Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
We plan to make a joint statement at the end of day 2 with specific details and points agreed to. #csm6 #tweetfleet
3 minutes ago


Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
Already some things that I know people will respond positively to. #csm6 #tweetfleet
4 minutes ago

Anna Maziarczyk
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:17:00 - [132]
 

DON'T FORGET PEOPLE,

The CCPs has complete control over CSM as a medium via NDA.

They convince CSM "Its your job to do whats best, convincing them to get along is whats best."

And then they give them NDA to sign, and then cover EVERYTHING in the meeting that follows.

EVERYTHING IS THEN COVERED.

Then CCP simply tells CSM "Ok, you can say this, and this, and that, and this.

i.e. everything the CCP wants them to say.

Since they don't have much else to say, and they are CSM... they say this and this and that and this.

BtodaC
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:19:00 - [133]
 

Some posters need to learn the value of patience and stop behaving like spoilt children screaming 'I WANT IT NOW'
I look forward to the outcome of this meeting and would rather have a well thought out response to the criticisms than a rushed, half baked, load of trash. Whatever the response from this meeting will be, even if CCP reversed the last patch in its entirety and sacked various devs (and even dropped them in a volcano) it would not satisfy some players.

Raellah
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:19:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Kira Summer
Then if you have a Job that you cannot book a couple of days off when something as important as this arises why bother to put yourself up for election. Geddit.


This isn't exactly the norm for the CSM delegates. There's 8 of them there already, i'm sure that's enough to get the point across. Not all managers are sympathetic to last minute flights to iceland to sort out issues with internet spaceship games. Geddit. Rolling Eyes

Hustler Funk
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:19:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Harcosi
Can someone keep posting updates from twitter to this thread? It's after midnight here.


Thanks for keeping track of the Twitterings going on over there. Go get some rest.

Harcosi
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:20:00 - [136]
 

Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
@Trebor_CSM: BTW, John Turbefield, the Man, the Legend, the Monocle! http://yfrog.com/kle9eryj #tweetfleet #csm6
3 minutes ago


Going to bed, hopefully someone can paste the tweets here for the people who can't check twitter.

Kane Molou
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:20:00 - [137]
 

We plan to make a joint statement at the end of day 2 with specific details and points agreed to. #csm6 #tweetfleet

Already some things that I know people will respond positively to. #csm6 #tweetfleet



see so already we've been screwed over.

Anna Maziarczyk
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:21:00 - [138]
 

You think the FORUM propoganda is something.....

You aint seen nothin yets.

Wait til we get the "SUBSCRIPTIONS ARE SKYROCKETING, HOURLY, EVE NOW HAS 3 Trillion Unique Players, per system, rotating in every 30 minutes. AND THEY ALL OWN MONOCLES. What do you want us to do? we are a business after all. If you guys had said soemthing, maybe we would have rethunk through things, but you all seem so happy with the CCP's and INCARNA."

Amar Azaph
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:21:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Anna Maziarczyk
DON'T FORGET PEOPLE,

The CCPs has complete control over CSM as a medium via NDA.

They convince CSM "Its your job to do whats best, convincing them to get along is whats best."

And then they give them NDA to sign, and then cover EVERYTHING in the meeting that follows.

EVERYTHING IS THEN COVERED.

An NDA means diddly squat. A non compete agreement convenent is what CCP should have had them all sign.



Then CCP simply tells CSM "Ok, you can say this, and this, and that, and this.

i.e. everything the CCP wants them to say.

Since they don't have much else to say, and they are CSM... they say this and this and that and this.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:21:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Viking Sven
Originally by: Harcosi
They're going to make a joint statement after the meeting. I'm not sure how long after the meeting though.


Anyone else find it odd that they plan on issuing a joint statement as of the BEGINNING of the meeting? I.e. nothing's been discussed yet, and the CSM ought not to be sure if they're going to be drinking CCP's kool-aid yet.


CCP knows they are offering some "concessions" and they also know CSM will be quick to claim any concessions as a victory for their own individual political gain.

The rest of this meeting - showing graphs and demographics - is just the dog and pony show. They could have signed what CCP was going to offer in the first five minutes and been done with it. But then people would see this for what it really is - a pr stunt.

Kira Summer
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:21:00 - [141]
 

Like I said a family emergency would be a reason for not attending and an already family booked holiday I would reckon in there. But please don't tell me people cannot get a couple of days off from work or from their business to attend this.

I have worked and run a successful business and if I run for election in something, regardless of whether its a game, or local politics or more and the future of what I asked people to vote me to do for them is at risk then I would feel morally obligated to attend.

Anyone here saying its impossible to get a couple of days off work or from their business is talking BS.

Plenty promises made to get our votes like any other politician

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:22:00 - [142]
 

Thanks, Harcosi.

Can someone take over his job? And perhaps colourize the copied tweet messages, please?

Sir Hillary
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:23:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Kira Summer
Anyone here saying its impossible to get a couple of days off work or from their business is talking BS.


You've never met my boss obviously.

Anna Maziarczyk
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:24:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: BtodaC
Some posters need to learn the value of patience and stop behaving like spoilt children screaming 'I WANT IT NOW'
I look forward to the outcome of this meeting and would rather have a well thought out response to the criticisms than a rushed, half baked, load of trash. Whatever the response from this meeting will be, even if CCP reversed the last patch in its entirety and sacked various devs (and even dropped them in a volcano) it would not satisfy some players.


Simply saying "No-Non-Vanity items, and now Spaceflight<->Docked<->CQ" would be massive. Enough to quell the protester atmosphere.

CCP knows this. CSM know this. The players know this. The guy down the street, who's never played EVE, knows this.

Yet they arent saying it.

Its not a matter of miscommunication or language or anythign else.

Its a matter of, we are going to do it anyways, and we think you are stupid enough to sit around and accept it in time. LAUNCH THE FORUM PROPOGANDA ARES>

vasuul
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:24:00 - [145]
 

Edited by: vasuul on 30/06/2011 14:28:57
Edited by: vasuul on 30/06/2011 14:24:39
Originally by: BtodaC
The CSM can't really make demands, its not like it has any bargaining power. It can try to make sure CCP understands the players views and give some suggestions to improve the design as well as give some feedback on any alterations. I'm sure they will do good but donít expect the 'no to micro transactions' camp to have any success. I also expect they will be helping CCP to communicate clearly that micro transactions will only ever be for vanity items and hopefully why CCP will keep their word (i.e. Because they understand that 'pay to win' would destroy the premise of the eve sandbox).


The CSM's do have bargaining power US.
The Players
CCP has to know that the players are not happy. and if they want to keep us all playing they have choices to make
A lot of the player base united to show its disapproval, either by the ship protest or the,unsubbing of accounts
when ccp refused to listen.
Right now there are a whole lot more players that have their fingers hovering over the unsub button
CCP has to know what is at stake they **** us off and the golden geese fly from the coop
I personally hope this meeting goes very well and CCP understand where they went wrong in our eyes
analogy ::Our CSM's are the strike negotiators we are the ****ed off union employees

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:25:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Amber Helfer
are we going to have to wait 2/3 months to get the minutes of this meeting too?


No this is csm 6s golden egg. They will be quick to claim what great work they did in getting CCP to agree not to allow non vanity items in the nex store. Rolling Eyes



Zizy Fotheringham
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:27:00 - [147]
 

Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
Already some things that I know people will respond positively to. #csm6 #tweetfleet
13 minutes ago
_____

No details tho.

Enuen Ravenseye
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:28:00 - [148]
 

You don't have to be on twitter just to follow what is being posted:
http://twitter.com/#!/search/%23csm6
refresh when it says "new tweet"

Tiven loves Tansien
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:28:00 - [149]
 

Edited by: Tiven loves Tansien on 30/06/2011 14:29:07
Originally by: Snake Scofield
Originally by: Righteous Deeds
Originally by: Snake Scofield
Quote this if you think free expansions are awesome.


Except they're not free, but are funded by subscription revenues. Not a gift, just another kind of business strategy.


No, subscriptions fund gameplay, server costs etc. 10 expansions for everquest 2 over 7 years, none free. 3 major expansions to WoW over 6 years full retail box price. In addition to subscription. Of course you watch the rage should they think of charging to develop a content packed expansion.


Oh really?

Please do compare our expansions (in EVE) with the expansions in WoW, Everquest, etc.

Content, yo, wut?


Anyway, i would be 200% cool if they started charging expansions but got rid of the stupid MicroTransactions plague, and also provide some content with them.

Anna Maziarczyk
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:28:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: vasuul
Edited by: vasuul on 30/06/2011 14:24:39
Originally by: BtodaC
The CSM can't really make demands, its not like it has any bargaining power. It can try to make sure CCP understands the players views and give some suggestions to improve the design as well as give some feedback on any alterations. I'm sure they will do good but donít expect the 'no to micro transactions' camp to have any success. I also expect they will be helping CCP to communicate clearly that micro transactions will only ever be for vanity items and hopefully why CCP will keep their word (i.e. Because they understand that 'pay to win' would destroy the premise of the eve sandbox).


The CSM's do have bargaining power US.
The Players
CCP has to know that the players are not happy. and if they want to keep us all playing they have choices to make
A lot of the player base united to show its disapproval, either by the ship protest or the,unsubbing of accounts
when ccp refused to listen.
Right now there are a whole lot more players that have their fingers hovering over the unsub button
CCP has to know what is at stake they **** us off and the golden geese fly from the coop


ABSOLUTELY.

If the CSM stood up and said "Enough is enough, make the following changes or we quit."

CCP would listen.

The leadership of EVE all leaving together, would have REAL effect on the players who are on the fence about staying/leaving. Its a lot of people.


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