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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:48:00 - [331]
 

Originally by: SilKKZ the3rd
Is there any point to a CSM, id prefer to be able to have a conversation with devs myself. How do I know my point is being made in the fashion I wish to make it when 3 of them are goons. Its all madness.

I must ask how you intend to have a live chat with them? The whole point was to find a select number of players to represent the community in face-to-face talks, which, quite frankly, the internet won't be able to solve that issue. Even if they do setup live chats with players, there's tens of thousands of players, if not hundreds of thousands- you can't have dialogs with all of them. If you feel your view isn't being represented, you run for the CSM yourself.

Luckytania
Gallente
Bullets of Justice
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:51:00 - [332]
 

Originally by: Bubbles Udan
Originally by: Luckytania

Your last sentence is "reasonable" for people who play a day to day, near FPS like, style of Eve. I make plans which take months to reach fruition. Without some confidence of the future, it is not "reasonable" to strive to achieve goals more substantial than "what can I shoot today".



I have plans too and I really don't care what CCP or anyone says right now. If the game is fun I will play and if it is not fun I will not play. At the end of the day CCP can swear up and down they won't implement p2w, then turn around do it anyway. It won't be any skin off my back because there are plenty of other games out there to play :P Furthermore the game engine I have spent the last few years working on could be retooled for an eve like game, though the code is ps3 only :(

I guess it all boils down to different philosophies of play. I say enjoy the game while it lasts, one way or another it will not last forever. I don't see why people are so invested emotionally into something they have no control over at the end of the day :P Even if CCP does everything right in EVE they may still crumble financially because of WoD.


"one way or another it will not last forever" - And on that we fully agree.

"enjoy the game while it lasts" - Agree on that, also. It comes down to a personal decision as to when the time has come to bail.

Probably the only significant difference of opinion here is how much effort is worth exerting in the attempt to mold evolution of the game in a direction to my liking. (And it is only when enough of those "my"s are congruent that it really makes any difference.)

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:53:00 - [333]
 

CSM should have insisted on no NDA discussions at all (or a NDA that expires when the 'summit' concludes) in this meeting and on setting the day 1 agenda.

Here's what the day 1 agenda should have looked like:

1. CCP lying. Will CCP acknowledge it? Will CCP apologize for it? Will CCP stop it? Will CCP stop using dev alts or hiring outsiders to troll forums?

2. P2W (other than PLEX) Will CCP commit to never having it in Internet Spaceships? Will CCP commit to never again deliberately breaking gameplay and then trying to sell functionality back to its customers?

3. Incarna Will CCP commit to making it optional?

4. Sweeteners Since CCP ****ed over its customers so blatantly, will they now try to make amends by devoting significant resources to Internet Spaceships? Make a commitment to supporting the old forums?

Then, if day 1 goes badly, there'd be no reason for a day 2.

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:55:00 - [334]
 

I'm going to run for CSM in the next election. My platform will be this: roll back Incarna, NEX, and make walking in stations optional. If I win, I will fly to Iceland and picket CCP headquarters chanting the will of the people until they change their minds.

Who wants to vote for me?

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:56:00 - [335]
 

Edited by: Whitehound on 30/06/2011 17:56:25
Originally by: Enuen Ravenseye
Originally by: Whitehound
The CSMs are our heros.


Wrong - they had the opportunity to become heroes, and blew it.

No. We elected them, we have given them this opportunity and they have answered the call of CCP to come. If we do not let them do their job and to the end then we have to blame ourselves.

You want to quit? Then go and do not fling your poo around on your way out.

Frodrich Adoudel
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:56:00 - [336]
 

Personally if I was on the CSM, id take the plane ticket and go try getting candid photo shoots of Bjork while the other CSM members are collecting their free monocles.....

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:58:00 - [337]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
I'm going to run for CSM in the next election. My platform will be this: roll back Incarna, NEX, and make walking in stations optional. If I win, I will fly to Iceland and picket CCP headquarters chanting the will of the people until they change their minds.

Who wants to vote for me?


Anyone who would have voted for you has quit.

They're all in Perpetuum.

Join them.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:01:00 - [338]
 

Quote:

Guys, CCP is being very open with us about strategy, numbers, etc. That is NDA territory...


nah, that's "who can scam CC... oh, wait, right we want this to work. carry on then.

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:02:00 - [339]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
No. We elected them, we have given them this opportunity and they have answered the call of CCP to come.


And they have blown it. Not unexpectedly.

Azztoroid
Shipwreck cove
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:08:00 - [340]
 

Edited by: Azztoroid on 30/06/2011 18:08:59
Should CCP as a company feed us with all details...no

let us hammer some reson into our heads combined with alitle paitense...

Did we get an reaction from CCP with the protests?? yes we did

Did any of us expect that they would bring the CSM to iceland for a meeting?? No

Let us now wait what comes out of it. I hate waiting, but i want to give the CSM as much support as i can, and right now that is to remain paitent.

I did my protest for the love of the game, not to be a pain or creepz to anyone. We had act sooner than later, we did that, we got something out of it, we just dont know what yet, but im sure we will know when the time arives.

They have a deadline to 2nd of july, no matter lack of info etc, they have to the 2nd july. After that if needed the term sandbox will become werry werry visible...

Azz

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:09:00 - [341]
 

@Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
And we are done for the day.

@Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
Guys, CCP is being very open with us about strategy, numbers, etc. That is NDA territory....

@Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
...BUT everything we can tell you, we will tell you. Guaranteed

@Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
Including if we think they're full of crap about an NDA issue.


Amar Azaph
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:10:00 - [342]
 

Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: SilKKZ the3rd
Is there any point to a CSM, id prefer to be able to have a conversation with devs myself. How do I know my point is being made in the fashion I wish to make it when 3 of them are goons. Its all madness.

I must ask how you intend to have a live chat with them? The whole point was to find a select number of players to represent the community in face-to-face talks, which, quite frankly, the internet won't be able to solve that issue. Even if they do setup live chats with players, there's tens of thousands of players, if not hundreds of thousands- you can't have dialogs with all of them. If you feel your view isn't being represented, you run for the CSM yourself.

Apple do it. We better tell Apple that what they are currently doing can't be done.

Elaine Eza
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:14:00 - [343]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
@Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
And we are done for the day.

@Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
Guys, CCP is being very open with us about strategy, numbers, etc. That is NDA territory....

@Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
...BUT everything we can tell you, we will tell you. Guaranteed

@Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
Including if we think they're full of crap about an NDA issue.




What we want are the meeting minutes in full. Not some half page writeup. Information covered by the NDA can be x-ed out. It seems to me someone is seeking reasons not to publish the minutes.

Portmanteau
Gallente
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:14:00 - [344]
 

Edited by: Portmanteau on 30/06/2011 18:14:30
Just to troll about something I neither care about or will use but it's seems as no surprise that minnie get their CQ first then it's Amarr and squid... no mention of Gallente... do they even exist in this game to CCP ? ROFL

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:17:00 - [345]
 

Originally by: ALLYOURMONEY BELONGTOUS
I don't know how to use twitter... If u do can u ask the csm on twitter are they going to bring the ship docked in hangar back?


This is just priceless. Some guy that can't figure out how to type twitter.com into a web browser is making noise about what he wants out of a technology company.

Let me guess, you think you speak for the eve community when you say that you want the old hangars back?

What are you, 12? Are you even old enough to play this game?

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:19:00 - [346]
 

Originally by: Elaine Eza
Originally by: Whitehound
@Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
And we are done for the day.

@Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
Guys, CCP is being very open with us about strategy, numbers, etc. That is NDA territory....

@Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
...BUT everything we can tell you, we will tell you. Guaranteed

@Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
Including if we think they're full of crap about an NDA issue.




What we want are the meeting minutes in full. Not some half page writeup. Information covered by the NDA can be x-ed out. It seems to me someone is seeking reasons not to publish the minutes.

You would not understand them. You already fail at understanding what NDA means and you are barking up the wrong tree.

Amar Azaph
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:20:00 - [347]
 

Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Tron Flux
I'm going to run for CSM in the next election. My platform will be this: roll back Incarna, NEX, and make walking in stations optional. If I win, I will fly to Iceland and picket CCP headquarters chanting the will of the people until they change their minds.

Who wants to vote for me?


Anyone who would have voted for you has quit.

They're all in Perpetuum.

Join them.

Nice- attack the person and not their argument. Classic flaw in most of these threads.

Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:21:00 - [348]
 

Originally by: Amar Azaph
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: SilKKZ the3rd
Is there any point to a CSM, id prefer to be able to have a conversation with devs myself. How do I know my point is being made in the fashion I wish to make it when 3 of them are goons. Its all madness.

I must ask how you intend to have a live chat with them? The whole point was to find a select number of players to represent the community in face-to-face talks, which, quite frankly, the internet won't be able to solve that issue. Even if they do setup live chats with players, there's tens of thousands of players, if not hundreds of thousands- you can't have dialogs with all of them. If you feel your view isn't being represented, you run for the CSM yourself.

Apple do it. We better tell Apple that what they are currently doing can't be done.

Yes, yes, I failed by mentioning it in such a way that suggested technical matters. I should have omitted those parts of my post.

It's the issue of trying to get substantial feedback from so many players even in the case that 'facetime' sessions are established.

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:25:00 - [349]
 

Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Tron Flux
I'm going to run for CSM in the next election. My platform will be this: roll back Incarna, NEX, and make walking in stations optional. If I win, I will fly to Iceland and picket CCP headquarters chanting the will of the people until they change their minds.

Who wants to vote for me?


Anyone who would have voted for you has quit.

They're all in Perpetuum.

That was sort of my point. I suspect that everyone who has quit is just lying about quitting. LYING DO YOU HEAR?! JUST LIKE CCP LIED TO US!

Assume for a moment that all the whigers (whiner + rager) are all still around during the next election. If I ran on that platform, I would get a ridiculously small percent of the vote. My guess is less than 1%.

Join them.

octahexx Charante
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:26:00 - [350]
 

@TheMittani The Mittani
I'm feeling kind of grim and ****ed off. It was an angry summit day when discussion of the NeX rollout occurred. #tweetfleet #eveonline

Elaine Eza
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:26:00 - [351]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Elaine Eza
Originally by: Whitehound
@Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
And we are done for the day.

@Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
Guys, CCP is being very open with us about strategy, numbers, etc. That is NDA territory....

@Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
...BUT everything we can tell you, we will tell you. Guaranteed

@Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
Including if we think they're full of crap about an NDA issue.




What we want are the meeting minutes in full. Not some half page writeup. Information covered by the NDA can be x-ed out. It seems to me someone is seeking reasons not to publish the minutes.

You would not understand them. You already fail at understanding what NDA means and you are barking up the wrong tree.


NDA means Non Disclosure Agreement. When Information covered by it appears in the meeting minutes in can be x-ed out. Just like it has been in the past. Beyond that there is not much to understand about this. In clarification i should add that my reply was not meant to be directed at you. I realise it might have seemed that way to you because i quoted your quotes.

Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:28:00 - [352]
 

Originally by: Portmanteau
Edited by: Portmanteau on 30/06/2011 18:14:30
Just to troll about something I neither care about or will use but it's seems as no surprise that minnie get their CQ first then it's Amarr and squid... no mention of Gallente... do they even exist in this game to CCP ? ROFL

Squid? What is this 'squid' ..?

If you're trying to make the joke that I think you're going for, that's way too much of a stretch.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:30:00 - [353]
 

This thread validates Hilmar email.

While many posters have a good sense of the realities of the situation you also have...

... posters that can't agree with each other on what the main concerns of the community are.

... posters that refuse to acknowledge the realities of running a game development company.

... posters that don't understand why information covered by an NDA should be discussed with our representives to give them the full picture of what is going on and (more importantly) why.

... posters that are no more that trolls and attention seekers.

... posters that really haven't studied the facts of the situation and are meerly parroting what others have said.

... posters that have already made up their minds about how this will turn out, and consider information to the contrary to be lies.

... posters that in their irritation will pick up any scrap of information released and spin it in the worst possible light, regardless of whether that flies in the face of common sense or accurately represents the situation or not.

All of this makes it hard to argue with the sentiment that CCP should pay more attention to what people do than what they say, because what they are saying is pretty much a huge conflicting mish-mash.

Arvald
Caldari
Drunken Space Irish
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:34:00 - [354]
 

So far this reminds me of almost every other rabblefest from very other major issue that has popped up in the game, im just going to hold off judgment until the csm meeting minutes are posted, and we get some substantial comments from the csm

Gloria Stitz
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:35:00 - [355]
 

Originally by: Bubbles Udan
Originally by: Gloria Stitz

Well said, we don't want explanations, we want stuff changed.


You mean you DON'T want anything changed. Currently there is no pay 2 win and people want it to stay that way :P


I want the stuff we have changed - cq permanently optional

Portmanteau
Gallente
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:36:00 - [356]
 

Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: Portmanteau
Edited by: Portmanteau on 30/06/2011 18:14:30
Just to troll about something I neither care about or will use but it's seems as no surprise that minnie get their CQ first then it's Amarr and squid... no mention of Gallente... do they even exist in this game to CCP ? ROFL

Squid? What is this 'squid' ..?

If you're trying to make the joke that I think you're going for, that's way too much of a stretch.


heh... not really a joke, squid has been common slang for caldari for years now, that's what I meant anyway

Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:37:00 - [357]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
All of this makes it hard to argue with the sentiment that CCP should pay more attention to what people do than what they say, because what they are saying is pretty much a huge conflicting mish-mash.

Sadly, I have to agree. Do I get a complementary cynics association pin?

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:39:00 - [358]
 

Here's my summary blog posting about day one. Enjoy.

Zarnak Wulf
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:40:00 - [359]
 

There needs to be some commitment to excellence about the future that comes out of this meeting. I'm not going to scream and shout or leave a wall of text. Neither am I going to wait 18 months for game fixes.

As for a promise for no game changing MTs- we're not going to get such an explicit promise. Can you imagine walking into a bank for a loan as a small company and being questioned why you publicly foreswore a revenue stream? A quiet disclaimer is all that can be hoped for.

Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:40:00 - [360]
 

Originally by: Portmanteau
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: Portmanteau
Edited by: Portmanteau on 30/06/2011 18:14:30
Just to troll about something I neither care about or will use but it's seems as no surprise that minnie get their CQ first then it's Amarr and squid... no mention of Gallente... do they even exist in this game to CCP ? ROFL

Squid? What is this 'squid' ..?

If you're trying to make the joke that I think you're going for, that's way too much of a stretch.


heh... not really a joke, squid has been common slang for caldari for years now, that's what I meant anyway

Ah... Oddly enough, as you may have gathered, I have never heard the joke. I've been active for at least 3/4 years and this slang/derogatory term has passed my notice. Still, I think calamari == Caldari is a bit of a stretch.


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