open All Channels
seplocked Assembly Hall
blankseplocked [To CSM for review at meeting] Incarna, EVE.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Liaro
Posted - 2011.06.30 02:05:00 - [1]
 

Dear CSM:
Here is a list of concerns I have with the current state of EVE that I would like brought up at the CSM meeting.

1. Money pit?
I see warning signs that the game will, in the future, require me to pay more than my subscription fee I loyally pay every month. This is concerning. I don't have a problem with vanity items; it's the concern that those items could grow into things you need, over time. People want assurance on not having to pay more than a subscription just to play.
2. CSM Involvement
The CSM should be directly involved with anything passing into the game. They are entrusted to the player community as a system to ensure EVE does not degrade in quality or experience. I would like assurance that things will always pass through the hands of the CSM before being implemented.

3. Speculation over buying standings?
If standings are going to be for sale, players are completely bypassing the PVE portion of the grind, that for everyone else was rite of passage. It's time consuming to grind standings, and it's a rewarding process, but to offer a shortcut there is just wrong. The player also gets robbed of the experience.

4. Noble Exchange breaks the system.
A major concern and complaint about the Noble Exchange is that it breaks the system in several ways.
Problem- First, items are offered instead of blueprints. This cuts industrialists out of the process, and because the noble exchange is in every station, it would mean you could abuse that to bypass logistics with any non-vanity, non-bpc item.
Solution- Have the NeX offer BPCs, then indies have to make the item from textiles or some existing in game resource, to tie it in to the economy.

5. Golden ammo/Golden Scorpion?
A lot of mixed meanings and speculations surround this topic. This has the potential to upset game balance if things are offered in their final form.
Situation: A major alliance needs ships, but they are pinned down in a corner of null. They buy the completed ships or ammunition from the Noble Exchange, thereby cutting out the miners needed to get the resources, and more importantly in this case--the logistics of getting materials out to their corner of the galaxy. It also introduces more materials into the game without removing them from elsewhere.
Solution- Again, BPC's in the NeX would solve these issues and include industrialists and haulers in the process.

6. Clothing prices?
The clothing prices don't seem to have any anchor to reality. The one that shows up in your avatar picture is, of course, 4-5 times the cost of all the rest. People don't want designer clothes, but they would certainly pay for cheap character-defining clothing, or items that enhanced role play. Even if the monocle had simply been an eye patch, it would have been more accepted.
Solution- Forget high-end clothes, go for clothing that could promote a role play environment cheaply.
Example- I am role playing a Sansha. Am I going to spend 1.5 bil on something that makes me look more like a zombie, or 100 mil for a fitted Phantasm?

7. High-end designer clothing versus cheap customization?
Why not offer customization for cheap than designer fluff for a lot. People would paint their ships, and add articles to their avatars if they seemed more like "normal" items, or roleplay enhancements. Customization = Awesome. Designer Jeans = Laughable.
Examples: Eye patches, Pax Amarria, Cigarettes, Ship paint/designs/superficial customization
The players have been crying to paint their ships for some time. Some people really prefer the old Khanid clothing. There is a huge market for it, but it's broken in the current state.
Solution: Offer cheap clothing and more of it, focusing on things that will promote roleplay and community within EVE. You can probably move enough cheap articles to make up for the difference in the designer clothing.


Liaro
Posted - 2011.06.30 02:08:00 - [2]
 

8. The uproar over Aurum
Aurum was supposed to be granular PLEX. Almost everything costs more than a PLEX, so when does the "granular" part come in? The way it is geared just looks bad, as if people are supposed to cough up $70 for a vanity item. In this instance, a vanity item for your avatar that costs more than a tangible item from the gift shop. That is what scares people. It looks terribly ominous from a player perspective.
Solution- Have Aurum be some type of credit for the eve online gift shop. People would throw down ISK to buy PLEX for Aurum if they got something tangible from it, like a Raven statue.
"Mouse pad is worn out, but I have enough ISK for a new one."

9. Losses in functionality with Incarna
Problem- Losing the old hangar view makes it impossible to:
View your active ship easily.
Click the hangar to open cargo.
Drag a ship into the hangar to board it.
It also takes longer to load, and makes it so the players cannot spin their ships, which had become a mutual yet laughable pastime, that many of us miss.
Solution: Offer the "classic hangar view" as an option.

10. More expansions = More broken stuff.
A large gripe among players is that with each expansion the game seems to work worse than it did previously. It gets "better" over time, but there are still LONGSTANDING bugs and broken mechanics in the game that simply haven't been addressed.
How is it they are making clothes before refining systems that need attention?
Example 1: Ship maintenance arrays make it very difficult to secure ships, the security options are scant, and they are hard to manipulate. They are pretty easy to steal from.
Example 2: Highsec wars are a joke. It all comes down to who can abuse the aggression, station, and gate mechanics the best.
Example 3: To drive the last point home, Highsec war mechanics make it far too easy for neutral alt fleets to Remote Repair your war targets with little or no repercussion.
Example 4: Someone just jumped a titan into Rens. 'Nuff said.
Solution: Revise the current mechanics to promote more fairness and less out-and-out exploitation of poorly working mechanics (Neither war target can dock for 3 minutes, etc.).
If possible, dedicate less people to new development, and more people towards debugging and tuning the current environment to perfection, starting with core systems.

In conclusion, the Players need confidence that the checks and balances that set the environment and economy of EVE stay intact, and that the quality of the game does not decline. It's a gorgeous game, but the immersion is broken when bugs and flaws make it look more like a toy than a virtual reality.
Fly safe,
-Liaro

Nariya Kentaya
Coalition Of Gentlemen.

Posted - 2011.06.30 02:39:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Nariya Kentaya on 30/06/2011 02:41:49
This is something that needed to be said, something others have tried to say, but were unable to through their caps lock and utter hate/doomed speeches.
Really, i believe CCP is trying to cater towards younger kids who can abuse their parents wallet for shiny things.
Face it CCP, the "newer players" your trying to keep around, are transient, they always will be, your income comes from a solid core of devoted and opinionated players who keep the game's economy running internally. these player's are the ones who will choose which players end up staying, and which end up going, no amount of content or "shiny new things" are going to make players stay that the older players want gone, so you may as well keep the older players happy, and in turn they will teach the newer players the way the world works, and many will leave and be replaced, while others join your ranks of devoted players.

TL;DR Older players are who's opinions on the direction of the agme should matter, quit trying to the noobies, if they truly which to stick around instead of being transient, they will saty, no need to try and attract all these kids. Older players drive the economy, and make it possible for the enwer players to even get out of high-sec without being slaughtered by rats.
work on the broken stuff to make the older players happy, and they in turn will stick aorund and teach more noobies to not be newbs.
in the end everyone would be happy and your profit would increase, no non-vanity MT or shiny half-thought-out projects needed.

*really, my fear is taht it becomes like a certain OTHER space MMO, taht everytime they talk about an expansion or fixing a bug, it keeps getting moved back, because dev's got too into the MT and clothes/vanity items and MT-only pvp gear taht only coiners got to pvp and everything besides their version of carebears left, then the carebears left. the road CCP is heading down has been traveled many times before, and ALWAYS ends in heartbreak and/or bankruptcy for the company, or at least their gaming division.

Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena

Posted - 2011.06.30 15:15:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Alejan Gerakh on 30/06/2011 15:16:06
Originally by: Nariya Kentaya
Edited by: Nariya Kentaya on 30/06/2011 02:41:49
This is something that needed to be said, something others have tried to say, but were unable to through their caps lock and utter hate/doomed speeches.
Really, i believe CCP is trying to cater towards younger kids who can abuse their parents wallet for shiny things.
Face it CCP, the "newer players" your trying to keep around, are transient, they always will be, your income comes from a solid core of devoted and opinionated players who keep the game's economy running internally. these player's are the ones who will choose which players end up staying, and which end up going, no amount of content or "shiny new things" are going to make players stay that the older players want gone, so you may as well keep the older players happy, and in turn they will teach the newer players the way the world works, and many will leave and be replaced, while others join your ranks of devoted players.

TL;DR Older players are who's opinions on the direction of the agme should matter, quit trying to the noobies, if they truly which to stick around instead of being transient, they will saty, no need to try and attract all these kids. Older players drive the economy, and make it possible for the enwer players to even get out of high-sec without being slaughtered by rats.
work on the broken stuff to make the older players happy, and they in turn will stick aorund and teach more noobies to not be newbs.
in the end everyone would be happy and your profit would increase, no non-vanity MT or shiny half-thought-out projects needed.

*really, my fear is taht it becomes like a certain OTHER space MMO, taht everytime they talk about an expansion or fixing a bug, it keeps getting moved back, because dev's got too into the MT and clothes/vanity items and MT-only pvp gear taht only coiners got to pvp and everything besides their version of carebears left, then the carebears left. the road CCP is heading down has been traveled many times before, and ALWAYS ends in heartbreak and/or bankruptcy for the company, or at least their gaming division.

I think you need to slow down with your typing and be more accurate with key press order, but grammar (National Socialist) interrogation aside, you help solidify the point. We veterans are the ones that keep them afloat- the dedicated members of the community are the most valuable resource this game has, and they can't just sweep us aside without feeling the impact. Just reinforce the strengths of the game, and ignore the rest for the time being.

Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
Posted - 2011.06.30 15:34:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Alejan Gerakh on 30/06/2011 15:37:08
Originally by: Liaro
8. The uproar over Aurum
Aurum was supposed to be granular PLEX. Almost everything costs more than a PLEX, so when does the "granular" part come in? The way it is geared just looks bad, as if people are supposed to cough up $70 for a vanity item. In this instance, a vanity item for your avatar that costs more than a tangible item from the gift shop. That is what scares people. It looks terribly ominous from a player perspective.
Solution- Have Aurum be some type of credit for the eve online gift shop. People would throw down ISK to buy PLEX for Aurum if they got something tangible from it, like a Raven statue.
"Mouse pad is worn out, but I have enough ISK for a new one."

One of my problems with Aurum is that it seems to be a currency that just came out of nowhere. And, quite frankly, it seems like something that a capsuleer, from an in-universe perspective, would look at and think, "This stuff is virtually worthless. The stuff it buys is exorbitantly expensive for what they are." Again, it's never been mentioned in the lore, so where the hell does it come from? I suppose in a way it should turn into something like LP, in some respects- just something that's accepted, only it buys purely 'vanity items'. But it does seem a bit odd, all the same.
Originally by: Liaro
9. Losses in functionality with Incarna
Problem- Losing the old hangar view makes it impossible to:
View your active ship easily.
Click the hangar to open cargo.
Drag a ship into the hangar to board it.
It also takes longer to load, and makes it so the players cannot spin their ships, which had become a mutual yet laughable pastime, that many of us miss.
Solution: Offer the "classic hangar view" as an option.

This is a deal-breaker for many. Not me, so much, since I've adapted to using the hotkeys to open my cargo bay and referencing the Fitting window (which technically has ship-spinning functionalty... and if one really wants to, they can put a Preview of their current ship behind all their windows... but this would be a pain in the arse when the functionality was already there before Incarna) or the ship holograms in the CQ for the various elements mentioned (EDIT: Oh, and I ALWAYS have my Ship Hangar window open, and if I don't have any of the other things visible, I can always glance at that and see which of my ships has a white/off-white box around it... but still, I get what you mean). There is, however, no reason not to let us drag the ship item icons into the CQ environ to assign that ship as the Active, as was the way of things. However, being able to quickly dock/undock while still having the CQ available if I so wished would be greatly appreciated.

Sapphire Fangborn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.30 22:36:00 - [6]
 

Liaro,

1. Money pit?
I see warning signs that the game will, in the future, require me to pay more than my subscription fee I loyally pay every month.


This might be true, unless the game goes free to play with microtransactions.

3. Speculation over buying standings?
If standings are going to be for sale, players are completely bypassing the PVE portion of the grind, that for everyone else was rite of passage.


I doubt standing will be for sale. I'd be fine with buying a buff to standing I'm earning. Now people bypass grinds by buying characters - hoping that gets stopped.

4. Noble Exchange breaks the system.
A major concern and complaint about the Noble Exchange is that it breaks the system in several ways.
Problem- First, items are offered instead of blueprints. This cuts industrialists out of the process, and because the noble exchange is in every station, it would mean you could abuse that to bypass logistics with any non-vanity, non-bpc item.
Solution- Have the NeX offer BPCs, then indies have to make the item from textiles or some existing in game resource, to tie it in to the economy.


Great idea. Manufacturing fashions would be fun. Manufacturing captain's quarter furnishings would be good too.

5. Golden ammo/Golden Scorpion?
A lot of mixed meanings and speculations surround this topic. This has the potential to upset game balance if things are offered in their final form.
Situation: A major alliance needs ships, but they are pinned down in a corner of null. They buy the completed ships or ammunition from the Noble Exchange, thereby cutting out the miners needed to get the resources, and more importantly in this case--the logistics of getting materials out to their corner of the galaxy. It also introduces more materials into the game without removing them from elsewhere.
Solution- Again, BPC's in the NeX would solve these issues and include industrialists and haulers in the process.


I hope that ships with military power don't go into the store. As it is, I don't like plex translating into player advantage via ship or character purchases. Plex are worse than transactions.

6. Clothing prices?
The clothing prices don't seem to have any anchor to reality.
Solution- Forget high-end clothes, go for clothing that could promote a role play environment cheaply.
Example- I am role playing a Sansha. Am I going to spend 1.5 bil on something that makes me look more like a zombie, or 100 mil for a fitted Phantasm?


I want affordable clothes, ranging from badass to glam - especially when the station opens up. Everyone has a different taste so variety is key.

7. High-end designer clothing versus cheap customization?
Why not offer customization for cheap than designer fluff for a lot. People would paint their ships, and add articles to their avatars if they seemed more like "normal" items, or roleplay enhancements. Customization = Awesome. Designer Jeans = Laughable.
Examples: Eye patches, Pax Amarria, Cigarettes, Ship paint/designs/superficial customization
The players have been crying to paint their ships for some time. Some people really prefer the old Khanid clothing. There is a huge market for it, but it's broken in the current state.
Solution: Offer cheap clothing and more of it, focusing on things that will promote roleplay and community within EVE. You can probably move enough cheap articles to make up for the difference in the designer clothing.


The more varied and unique characters can be, the better. I like the sound of ship customization. Also think there are too few clothes in the Exchange. Hoping for avante guard evening wear when the station's pub opens up - remember the Nvidia youtube video? Not all professions in Eve are military, and surely the Amarr, Minmitar, Gallente, and Caldari know how to dress up or down. So far, the Exchange clothing is too grim, except for the highheels.

My favourite of your points is the blueprint one!

Thanks,

Sapph

Sapphire Fangborn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.30 23:04:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Nariya Kentaya
Edited by: Nariya Kentaya on 30/06/2011 02:41:49
This is something that needed to be said, something others have tried to say, but were unable to through their caps lock and utter hate/doomed speeches.
Really, i believe CCP is trying to cater towards younger kids who can abuse their parents wallet for shiny things.
Face it CCP, the "newer players" your trying to keep around, are transient, they always will be, your income comes from a solid core of devoted and opinionated players who keep the game's economy running internally. these player's are the ones who will choose which players end up staying, and which end up going, no amount of content or "shiny new things" are going to make players stay that the older players want gone, so you may as well keep the older players happy, and in turn they will teach the newer players the way the world works, and many will leave and be replaced, while others join your ranks of devoted players.

TL;DR Older players are who's opinions on the direction of the agme should matter, quit trying to the noobies, if they truly which to stick around instead of being transient, they will saty, no need to try and attract all these kids. Older players drive the economy, and make it possible for the enwer players to even get out of high-sec without being slaughtered by rats.
work on the broken stuff to make the older players happy, and they in turn will stick aorund and teach more noobies to not be newbs.
in the end everyone would be happy and your profit would increase, no non-vanity MT or shiny half-thought-out projects needed.

*really, my fear is taht it becomes like a certain OTHER space MMO, taht everytime they talk about an expansion or fixing a bug, it keeps getting moved back, because dev's got too into the MT and clothes/vanity items and MT-only pvp gear taht only coiners got to pvp and everything besides their version of carebears left, then the carebears left. the road CCP is heading down has been traveled many times before, and ALWAYS ends in heartbreak and/or bankruptcy for the company, or at least their gaming division.


So because I'm new I'm a kid? I wish it was true... If only playing a game could knock a few decades off. :D I'd love it! Best thing since Nip 'n Tuck! :p

PS: I do appreciate the veterans by the way. They play so well it looks like magic to me. ;)

Sapph

Linoa Hiroshi
Amarr
The CounterSpace Society
Posted - 2011.07.01 17:22:00 - [8]
 

+1 I'm aggree and support this proposal. Incarna can be the death of Eve online but with intelligence, we can assure a better future, can't they? No aurum, no free to play methods but an Incarna we all need. That's it.


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only