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blankseplocked Hilmars Line in the Sand.. No way I can play anymore
 
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.29 06:49:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Mr Epeen
blah blah blah



You're a non entity you're a forum alt with no actual game history or activity No kills/losses just forum smack. People can and will make their opinions known in what ever way they see fit. While you may think it perfectly reasonable to just wonder off the first instant something doesn't appeal to you others will want to make themselves heard.

As far as CCP knowing what they are doing. Well it's not at all uncommon for competent people to be blinded by their own ego's. It's called confirmation bias. People tend to give greater weight to data that supports what they want to be true and dismiss data that runs counter to that.

Now I don't know what the underlying data is on getting MT into EVE. Who knows perhaps it is following the same patterns that Dice and EA found in their FTP games, well actually someone will have a pretty good clue at this point and that someone is CCP. At least I'd hope they have their finger on those metrics.

As far as people sticking around even though they've "quit" hey the only way a mass direct action is effective is if there is a mass.

The fact is that the reaction of the EVE player base was sufficient to change CCP's plans. We know this because there is no way their messaging was intentionally that horrible. If they were seeing the level of reaction that they'd anticipated they would have reacted more rapidly to quell the rebellion.

Further your assertion that they could have simply resorted to mass bannings is as stupid as your other assertions. There are other forms of communications and word would have got out about such actions. Alliances have their own private forums and chat servers and IRC channels. Shutting down dissent in the official forums would simply have flamed the flames even more. Also I seriously doubt they'd happily ban the 5000+ accounts in the cancel thread. That's a substantial chunk of revenue to **** away not to mention banning those 5000 would probably have taken 10 times their number away as their corp mates took action as well.

I suspect that while they expected a negative reaction they did not anticipate the level of ire that was created. The leaking of the Fearless document was the variable that wasn't planned for. They still thought they'd be able to cruise through this with minimal fuss up until Saturday when Hilmar's email got leaked and all hell really and truly broke loose. I myself didn't decide to unsub until I read those words saying that this was a time when they watched what we did rather than what we said.

At that point I think they saw the cancellation numbers (they don't have to guess after all) and I think they found out that we might actually be serious and so they went into emergency response mode. Calling for the CSM summit and releasing the new blog that specifically denied that any plans for "gold ammo" were in the pipeline.

At this point it's a Mexican standoff time while CCP and the CSM meet to discuss terms.

Now no doubt CCP thinks they're going to be able to PR their way through this by spinning things and getting CSM buy in, but I think they are erring as well, they've already ****ed the CSM off by making them look foolish and going around behind their backs in the first place and then implying that the CSM had somehow bought into MT. So I suspect that this meeting is going to be far more adversarial than CCP realizes.

Honestly I think what will happen is that some sort of compromise will be reached. We'll get some sort of commitment for vanity items only and perhaps a couple good faith gestures like giving us back our fitting slots and freeing the political prisoners.

Is it possible that my own confirmation bias is blinding me here. Yeah it's always a possibility. I don't know all the parties involved and CCP may be under extreme pressure from their financiers and not have any choice in the matter.

Beyond that the forums have been great fun this last week.

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.29 06:52:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: RougeOperator
Edited by: RougeOperator on 29/06/2011 06:46:07
Edited by: RougeOperator on 29/06/2011 06:45:44
Micro trans only made sense if EvE online was losing money.

But its very much the opposite. EvE online is making enough money that CCP felt they could field developing two other games.

EvE is a money maker under its sub based plan. No reason for MT other then pure greed.

This is now just them blatantly sticking it to the loyal player base and trying to bilk them for more money.

This is pure abuse of the players. If the sub model wasn't profitable I might understand the move to add MT. But This is complete crap on ever level.

If you go with the addict logic. CCP is basically big tobacco and you are the smoker that keeps buying knowing its killing you. And you are going to do it with a smile on your face?

Its indefensible.


Quote:

Its indefensible
Quote:
Its indefensible
Quote:
Its indefensible



And it shows blatant contempt for the people who made them what they are today, the fans & on top of that is the insult of the prices of vanity items - that just really sticks it to us!

Asmodeus Et'Mort
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:05:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Asmodeus Et''Mort on 29/06/2011 07:06:14
Epeen you truly are ignorant.

So resistance to change is futile? customers cant change the way a business works?

Ever heard of Gerald Ratner? Look him up youll learn somthing about how a business can fail because of the way it treats its customers.

Hilmars "very predicatble feedback is his ratner moment and Ratners was far bigger more established than CCP can dream of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ratner thers a link for you.

epeen unless ccp does somthing positive you will be playing with yourself in eve much like you do in Real Life.






Asmodeus Et'Mort
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:10:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Asmodeus Et''Mort on 29/06/2011 07:28:36
Heres a few more examples from the business world where customer outrage at the way they are treated has led to change,

1 - In 2003, Matt Barrett, the Barclays chief executive, shocked observers by suggesting that consumers should stay clear of his company's product, the Barclaycard, because it was so expensive.

Giving evidence to a panel of MPs, he admitted he would not use one himself.

He said: "I do not borrow on credit cards. I have four young children. I give them advice not to pile up debts on their credit cards."

2 - Asked in an interview in 2001 to clarify the target market for the Topman clothing chain, the firm's brand director, David Shepherd, replied: "Hooligans or whatever."

He went on: "Very few of our customers have to wear suits for work. They'll be for his first interview or first court case."

The company later suggested that the word "hooligan" would not be seen as an insult among its customers.

3 - Alain Levy, chief executive of the music company EMI, offended most of Finland when he said that he had cut the roster of artists on a subsidiary label the company owned because there were not that many people in the country "who could sing".

4 - In 2006, John Pluthero, the UK chairman of Cable & Wireless, sent a memo to staff, which said: "Congratulations, we work for an underperforming business in a crappy industry and it's going to be hell for the next 12 months."

He warned of job losses and added: "If you are worried that it all sounds very hard, it's time for you to step off the bus."

All of these companies forced into a backdown from a customer backlash.

Kelvandar
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:15:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Mr Epeen
Do you honestly think that a company that can write off 10000 accts in Unholy Rage couldn't have nipped this whole thing in the bud by gagging a few hundred troublemakers right up front? Do you honestly think that for CCP that would not have been a fair trade off?



If these were normal accounts I would agree with you here. But these particular accounts were in direct competition with CCP's GTC sales. Unholy Rage was about profit.

Simetraz
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:21:00 - [36]
 

Well as I see it you have 2 choices

Option 1

or

Option 2

and well maybe

Option 3

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:23:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Mr Epeen on 29/06/2011 07:29:33
Originally by: Skex Relbore



You're a non entity you're a forum alt with no actual game history


Master forum alt, thanks.

I've been a forum alt longer than you have been in existence.

I am the youngest of 15 characters that I currently own. I am confident in my knowledge of EVE history and have watched arrogant ****s like you come and go over and over.

Mr Epeen Cool

~sp~

Inappropriate content removed. Zymurgist

Asmodeus Et'Mort
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:30:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Skex Relbore



You're a non entity you're a forum alt with no actual game history


Master forum alt thanks.

I've been a forum alt longer than you have been in existence.

I am the youngest of 15 characters that I currently own. I am confident in my knowledge of EVE history and have watched arrogant ****s like you come and go over and over.

One of the things I hate about all you leaving is that you'll miss being tea bagged by me once Incarna is in full swing. Trust that I will never by anything in that mt store except that animation. I might even by you a plex just so I can have the sheer joy of dipping my balls in your mouth. And you'll love it.

Mr Epeen Cool


Its buy,

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:34:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Asmodeus Et'Mort


Its buy,


Fixed. Been a long day takin' noobs like you to school. I'm a little sleepy.

Mr Epeen Cool

Asmodeus Et'Mort
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:36:00 - [40]
 

Answer the Ratner question Epeen.

and its an alt not my main.

coolzero
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:37:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Akai Kagerou
I suspect Hillmar better polish up on his shoe dodging technique for the next fan-fest. If he intends to even show up after this.


epic...someone make a flash game of that :P ill play that instead :D

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:38:00 - [42]
 

Mr Epeen:

Most of your trolls are stupid, but you put some thought into the long one in this thread so I might as well respond.

First, your claim that it is irrelevant whether or not CCP is wrong. Since when is it irrelevant if a service provider is wrong, if its customer is right, and if its customer complains? How is that immature? People complain to multi-million dollar companies every day and if their complaints have merit, they are invariably offered some sort compensation. What proportion of customers would have to be upset before you think that they have 'earned' the right to complain? 90%? 99%? 99.9999%?

Second, your hero worship of CCP as infallible and all-knowing because they've spent 15+ years developing EVE (the last 8 of which they've spent trying to get it out of beta.) History is littered with 15+ year old companies that made colossal errors and collapsed. CCP is no different.

Third your claim that it's their game. Perhaps you'd feel differently if you'd played it for 8 years instead of less than a year (from what you've said.)
Without the veterans, EVE would not exist. Hilmar would not be wealthy. 8 years ago, CCP asked people to take a chance on them, try a buggy crappy little
game (similar to what Perpetuum is now) where the time horizons are long but the potential payout is big. These people stepped up. I'd think a shred of gratitude might be in order, (along the lines of 'don't go out of your way to **** these people over completely') but that's just me.

Fourth, your form of protest. How is it better to just quit something than to tell someone you're dissatisfied and give them a chance to fix it? How is that more mature? I have ~9 months left on my 5 accounts. Are you saying that even though there are still some things I like about EVE I should never log in? I concede that it would send a stronger signal if all those who are opposed to CCP's behavior and greed didn't log in at all. But that's impractical.

Fifth, your contention that we are the liars. CCP are the ones who lied. Not us. We are not misinterpreting anything. CCP told us that MT would be for vanity only. They lied. CCP told us that 'Fearless' was just an opinion piece where people took diametrically opposed views for ****s and giggles. Another lie. CCP calls us their 'golden goose'. CCP says they will ignore what we say and watch what we do. You really ought to revisit your opinion of who the 'adults' are, imo (or at the very least, the non-sociopathic adults.)

Finally, your only point with any merit whatsoever. A very few people on our side have behaved badly. If someone advocated a DDOS or made a credible rl threat, shame on them.

But CCP are the asshats. CCP needs to suck it up and humble themselves. I'm just a customer who won't be treated like a doormat. You accept being treated like a doormat until you eventually go sulking off into the dark without a word. I hope no douchebag trolls you when you do.

Karii Ildarian
Caldari
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:40:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel

You don't like us, you don't think CCP is wrong, you don't think any of us matter, got it.


I've said this before but it bears repeating, I suppose.

It's not that I don't think CCP is wrong. It has nothing to do with the direction I think CCP should take and I am not so immature as to think I can make demands...DEMANDS... of a multimillion dollar company and expect them to listen.

But you all do think you know better than this corporate giant that has spent 15+ years developing this vision that is EVE.

IT"S THEIR GAME!!

I have been dissatisfied with them on some expansions. What did I do? I stopped playing for nearly a year. I spoke with my wallet. I didn't threaten to quit on the forum but justify continued playing because I had time left in my account. I logged out and didn't log back in until I was satisfied they had the game that I wanted to play.

You see Apollo, if you leave with time left on your acct, you are making a statement that will not be misinterpreted.

But if you whine on the forum that you quit but are going to keep playing for some indefinite period of time, you are having a tantrum.

Ask your self what's more effective. Definitive statement or tantrum. Then ask yourself what CCP is seeing on this forum at this time. Do they see serious protest or whiny brats posturing ineffectively. Trying to have their cake and eat it too.


So yes, Apollo, I don't like you and I don't think you matter. You have done absolutely nothing to earn CCPs ear. You have done nothing worthy of an adult paying you the least bit of attention.

You people have a quit thread full of obvious liars and alts trying to bolster their numbers by stacking the list. You have people asking hacker groups to disrupt CCPs real world business. You try to maliciously crash nodes in game. You advocate physical violence against CCP employees. You are constantly misinterpreting anything CCP has to say to better your position. You act as though you own the game instead of renting some pixels. You don't ask anything, you demand things. You attack the CSM who are dropping everything in real life and going all the way to Iceland to fight for you.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

I could go on but I'm running out of characters.

So, Apollo. Take two steps back. Set aside your righteous wrath. Take the ****ing blinders off for a few minutes and look over the last few days threads and postings. Ask yourself if you honestly would pay the least bit of attention a group that was writing all that stuff at a business you were in charge of. You'd probably try to have them arrested.

CCP has been more than patient with you lot. I would have deleted all your accounts by now. Do you honestly think that a company that can write off 10000 accts in Unholy Rage couldn't have nipped this whole thing in the bud by gagging a few hundred troublemakers right up front? Do you honestly think that for CCP that would not have been a fair trade off?

What you need to do is try to redeem your self. Suck it up and humble yourself while you still have a chance to get some small concessions out of them.

Start a thread. Title this thread Sorry we're a bunch of ass hats. And sincerely try some open communication.


If in the end things don't work out. Leave. With some dignity. Thank them for the years of enjoyment you had and find another game.


Whew...

Didn't expect to be that long winded.

TL/DR Stop being ****s. It's beneath you.

Mr Epeen Cool




+1

Happy Inmypants
Badly Packed Kebab
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:56:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Happy Inmypants on 29/06/2011 08:03:16
Originally by: Mr Epeen


I've said this before but it bears repeating, I suppose.

It's not that I don't think CCP is wrong. It has nothing to do with the direction I think CCP should take and I am not so immature as to think I can make demands...DEMANDS... of a multimillion dollar company and expect them to listen.

But you all do think you know better than this corporate giant that has spent 15+ years developing this vision that is EVE.

IT"S THEIR GAME!!

I have been dissatisfied with them on some expansions. What did I do? I stopped playing for nearly a year. I spoke with my wallet. I didn't threaten to quit on the forum but justify continued playing because I had time left in my account. I logged out and didn't log back in until I was satisfied they had the game that I wanted to play.

You see Apollo, if you leave with time left on your acct, you are making a statement that will not be misinterpreted.

But if you whine on the forum that you quit but are going to keep playing for some indefinite period of time, you are having a tantrum.

Ask your self what's more effective. Definitive statement or tantrum. Then ask yourself what CCP is seeing on this forum at this time. Do they see serious protest or whiny brats posturing ineffectively. Trying to have their cake and eat it too.


So yes, Apollo, I don't like you and I don't think you matter. You have done absolutely nothing to earn CCPs ear. You have done nothing worthy of an adult paying you the least bit of attention.

You people have a quit thread full of obvious liars and alts trying to bolster their numbers by stacking the list. You have people asking hacker groups to disrupt CCPs real world business. You try to maliciously crash nodes in game. You advocate physical violence against CCP employees. You are constantly misinterpreting anything CCP has to say to better your position. You act as though you own the game instead of renting some pixels. You don't ask anything, you demand things. You attack the CSM who are dropping everything in real life and going all the way to Iceland to fight for you.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

I could go on but I'm running out of characters.

So, Apollo. Take two steps back. Set aside your righteous wrath. Take the ****ing blinders off for a few minutes and look over the last few days threads and postings. Ask yourself if you honestly would pay the least bit of attention a group that was writing all that stuff at a business you were in charge of. You'd probably try to have them arrested.

CCP has been more than patient with you lot. I would have deleted all your accounts by now. Do you honestly think that a company that can write off 10000 accts in Unholy Rage couldn't have nipped this whole thing in the bud by gagging a few hundred troublemakers right up front? Do you honestly think that for CCP that would not have been a fair trade off?

What you need to do is try to redeem your self. Suck it up and humble yourself while you still have a chance to get some small concessions out of them.

Start a thread. Title this thread Sorry we're a bunch of ass hats. And sincerely try some open communication.


If in the end things don't work out. Leave. With some dignity. Thank them for the years of enjoyment you had and find another game.


Whew...

Didn't expect to be that long winded.

TL/DR Stop being ****s. It's beneath you.

Mr Epeen Cool




Spot on in my opinion.

This is a computer game not a failing marriage, if you don't like where its going, STOP PLAYING!
Despite all the tantrums and sandy vag1nas on these forums you people are not going anywhere, you know it, I know it and most importantly CCP knows it.

Why haven't any of you people gone already? if you really want to encourage a change in CCP policy then stop playing EVE, it couldn't be more simple, instead you cling on and continue to issue hollow threats and cry, much like an ex-girlfriend.

Have some self respect and take a stand.

Ris Dnalor
Minmatar
Fleet of Doom
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:59:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Mr Epeen
I've said this before but it bears repeating, I suppose.

It's not that I don't think CCP is wrong. It has nothing to do with the direction I think CCP should take and I am not so immature as to think I can make demands...DEMANDS... of a multimillion dollar company and expect them to listen.

But you all do think you know better than this corporate giant that has spent 15+ years developing this vision that is EVE.

IT"S THEIR GAME!!

and it's our revenue that allows them to have their game. We obviously know better than they do what we want out of a game and if they want to keep us, then they need to listen.

Quote:
I have been dissatisfied with them on some expansions. What did I do? I stopped playing for nearly a year. I spoke with my wallet. I didn't threaten to quit on the forum but justify continued playing because I had time left in my account. I logged out and didn't log back in until I was satisfied they had the game that I wanted to play.

90% or so of the population do just as you do. When dissatisfied, they simply stop patronizing the business. However the vocal 10% provide valuable feedback that represents more voices than just their own, and any intelligent business owner will listen, even if it's not always best to respond directly.

Quote:
You see Apollo, if you leave with time left on your acct, you are making a statement that will not be misinterpreted.

But if you whine on the forum that you quit but are going to keep playing for some indefinite period of time, you are having a tantrum.

Ask your self what's more effective. Definitive statement or tantrum. Then ask yourself what CCP is seeing on this forum at this time. Do they see serious protest or whiny brats posturing ineffectively. Trying to have their cake and eat it too.


So yes, Apollo, I don't like you and I don't think you matter. You have done absolutely nothing to earn CCPs ear. You have done nothing worthy of an adult paying you the least bit of attention.
you preach that we shouldn't tell CCP what to with THEIR GAME, but you're not afraid to tell other players to do with THEIR OPINIONS of CCP's game. Hypocrite is the word of the day, kids, and epeen needs to look it up.

Quote:
You people have a quit thread full of obvious liars and alts trying to bolster their numbers by stacking the list. You have people asking hacker groups to disrupt CCPs real world business. You try to maliciously crash nodes in game. You advocate physical violence against CCP employees. You are constantly misinterpreting anything CCP has to say to better your position. You act as though you own the game instead of renting some pixels. You don't ask anything, you demand things. You attack the CSM who are dropping everything in real life and going all the way to Iceland to fight for you.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.


self-righteous, pompous, name-calling, this paragraph just wasn't very constructive mr. peen. for someone trying to persuade people to take the high road, you certainly are slumming along the low path here. Perhaps you should set an example for folks to follow rather than preachy preachy when you can't practice practice.

I was going to respond to the rest of your post in another post because this one wasn't big enough to hold everything... then I realized you really didn't say anything in the rest of your post... just a winding down of a self-contradictory frenzied rantathon. Seriously, go to iceland and let the devs line up for free blowjobs if you like, but don't feel obligated to tell us the dirty details, because we're really not interested.

also, stop derailing other folks threads with your pedantic mindless drivel. make a thread of your own, and have at it.

Fly well or die well,

Ris Dnalor


Keno Range
Posted - 2011.06.29 08:05:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Keno Range on 29/06/2011 08:06:46
Edited by: Keno Range on 29/06/2011 08:05:52
Originally by: Mr Epeen

You have done absolutely nothing to earn CCPs ear.



Epeen, the fact that CCP is inviting the CSM to Iceland proves you and your entire post wrong.
You describe your own behaviour (leaving the game for a year when you're angry) as superior. I think it's either a coward's strategy, or the strategy of a man who is unable to debate a problem.
You have nothing to say, as opposed to the thousands of players who are trying to save EVE from becoming a P2W joke.

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
Posted - 2011.06.29 08:09:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Ris Dnalor
for someone trying to persuade people to take the high road, you certainly are slumming along the low path here.




I wasn't trying to persuade anyone of anything. I was answering a question.

Interestingly though, I knew exactly which toons were going to have which opinions as soon as I hit the Post Reply button.

I'm 10 for 10 so far.

Mr Epeen Cool

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
Posted - 2011.06.29 08:13:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Keno Range
Edited by: Keno Range on 29/06/2011 08:06:46
Edited by: Keno Range on 29/06/2011 08:05:52
Originally by: Mr Epeen

You have done absolutely nothing to earn CCPs ear.



Epeen, the fact that CCP is inviting the CSM to Iceland proves you and your entire post wrong.
You describe your own behaviour (leaving the game for a year when you're angry) as superior. I think it's either a coward's strategy, or the strategy of a man who is unable to debate a problem.
You have nothing to say, as opposed to the thousands of players who are trying to save EVE from becoming a P2W joke.



The opinion of some twit with a five post history is of no interest to me.

Buh-bye

Mr Epeen Cool

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.29 08:14:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Ris Dnalor
for someone trying to persuade people to take the high road, you certainly are slumming along the low path here.




I wasn't trying to persuade anyone of anything. I was answering a question.

Interestingly though, I knew exactly which toons were going to have which opinions as soon as I hit the Post Reply button.

I'm 10 for 10 so far.

Mr Epeen Cool


you're 10 IQ too.

Katrina Cortez
Posted - 2011.06.29 08:21:00 - [50]
 

You lost me at "Hilmar"...

Borameir
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.06.29 08:23:00 - [51]
 

Sorry I only check in every couple days to see what's going down, but I must have missed this Hilmar's 'line in the sand' reference and I didn't notice it linked here in the thread. Though I did mostly ignore responses between epeen and the others only skimming those.

I rechecked the DEV blogs and forum stickies, but didn't see it. Could I get linkage please?

Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
Posted - 2011.06.29 08:39:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Borameir
Sorry I only check in every couple days to see what's going down, but I must have missed this Hilmar's 'line in the sand' reference and I didn't notice it linked here in the thread. Though I did mostly ignore responses between epeen and the others only skimming those.

I rechecked the DEV blogs and forum stickies, but didn't see it. Could I get linkage please?


You can find Hilmar's email on Evenews24.

Pax CX8
Posted - 2011.06.29 08:46:00 - [53]
 

*eyeblink* Wow Epeen definately derailed this post, give the troll a cookie.

Not faring well for CCP, not faring well for me staying either, lets hope they fix this issue.

Eclorc
Posted - 2011.06.29 10:17:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Eclorc on 29/06/2011 10:31:23
@Epeen and others trolling the hell out of folks for not being "gone already".

I know that I could very well be wrong in my projections of where this game is likely to be headed, and of the knock-on effects for future titles. Unfortunately I don't think so, but I will hedge my bets. I will also try to keep current on what is happening, and stimulate discussion wherever I see fit, as will you.
If Eve can be salvaged enough that a year or two down the line it continues to be worth playing, then I will know the outcry was worthwhile. If not, and "big business" steamrolls Eve into the ground regardless, then at least I will know that I added my own voice to the throng before their greed killed the likely future of online gaming for me, and I think many others.

I have game-time paid for, and will continue to feed the skill queue only up until the time when my subs run out. I will not pour more time and money into the game over and above that limit, as the future of the game with non-vanity MT looks like it will not be something I want to play in. Therefore I will cease playing after the subs dry up.

Perhaps if I'm proven wrong a year or two down the line, I may be back. Who knows? But for now, I see no point in any further investment. Should I be back later, if time did prove me wrong, then I can say with certainty that I would then regret wasting paid-for skill points, thus will continue to train the characters until the end, regardless of my current fears for the game's future.

Think what you like about people being likely to chicken out, try to steer them by the "you're yellow" challenge if you like. In my case, it's like milk off a goose's back, you will not change my mind with your trolling words.
I would imagine that there are probably more folks taking the same position that I am, than you or CCP bargain for, and that will be a problem for CCP.

Time will tell for all of this theorising, of course.

Ec


ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
The Veerhouven Group
Posted - 2011.06.29 10:18:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: ACY GTMI on 29/06/2011 10:19:10
With a little luck, Mr. E may have some difficulty posting for a while. we can always hope anyway.

To the OP, I think there are a lot of people like you hoping that someone will pipe some fresh air into CCP headquarters. I don't know what they have been smoking, but it isn't making them better people.

I really don't want to quit. It isn't just the time and effort I've put into the game so far. I really enjoy it, and still only understand about 30% of it. The learning experience is very attractive to me.

I think I've learned everything about Incarna and Hilmar that I want to, though.

edith prickley
Posted - 2011.06.29 11:20:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: edith prickley on 29/06/2011 12:58:36
Edited by: edith prickley on 29/06/2011 11:21:59
Originally by: Mr Epeen

You see Apollo, if you leave with time left on your acct, you are making a statement that will not be misinterpreted.

But if you whine on the forum that you quit but are going to keep playing for some indefinite period of time, you are having a tantrum.

Ask your self what's more effective. Definitive statement or tantrum. Then ask yourself what CCP is seeing on this forum at this time. Do they see serious protest or whiny brats posturing ineffectively. Trying to have their cake and eat it too.

...

So, Apollo. Take two steps back. Set aside your righteous wrath. Take the ****ing blinders off for a few minutes and look over the last few days threads and postings. Ask yourself if you honestly would pay the least bit of attention a group that was writing all that stuff at a business you were in charge of. You'd probably try to have them arrested.

CCP has been more than patient with you lot. I would have deleted all your accounts by now. Do you honestly think that a company that can write off 10000 accts in Unholy Rage couldn't have nipped this whole thing in the bud by gagging a few hundred troublemakers right up front? Do you honestly think that for CCP that would not have been a fair trade off?




Okay, I'll bite.

Quitting silently and sincerely has a noticeable but very small effect on CCPs balance sheet. Silent fake-quitting has no monetary effect at all.

If you are quitting as a form of protest, then by commenting on the forum, you have a chance to convince others, and multiply your protest vote.

If the forum noise becomes loud enough, that's bad press for CCP, which has a chance to further multiply the financial impact. (It may be that there's no such thing as bad publicity, but in the case of an exciting new expansion, there's an opportunity for genuinely good publicity, which they've missed.)

So by multiplying your vote, and by attracting publicity, holding a tantrum can have a measurable effect on CCP's bottom line.

And even large-scale fake-quitting can have an effect. CCP deals with investors and bankers, and those guys want to see good solid numbers. If there's a sudden spike in people hitting the 'cancel' button, CCP can say (probably with some confidence) "75% of those people will be back." But it makes the business look much more volatile than it needs to be, and that will make the investors nervous. Maybe it will be harder to get cash, maybe the terms and interest rates on that cash won't be as favourable as it could be.

Finally, particularly if you're running a subscription-based service, it's just good business to listen to your customers and make sure they feel well-treated. You may believe that your customers are holding a tantrum, they may be completely unreasonable, but your business is built on keeping them happy so you've got to to suck it up and deal with it. You've got a very fragile business if it's built on an openly frustrated customer base.

Tantrums have been evolved as a manipulative mechanism in children for a good reason: They work. Even if you're not articulate enough to say what you want, you can get it. A good parent won't give in to that, for the long-term good of the child's attitude. But CCP's role here is not that of a good parent. They just want your money today, and keep you happy enough so that you'll pay them again tomorrow.

It's certainly true that people are being naive when they count "5000 lost accounts" and extrapolate that into $ losses for CCP. Only a fraction of that will be realized, some of that would have occurred due to natural attrition anyway, and some will be offset by gains of new subscribers.

But if you think tantrums (I'd call them protests) don't have an effect, you are also being naive.

tl;dr, quitting silently is the least effective thing to do if you want to induce change in a certain direction.

Asmodeus Et'Mort
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2011.06.29 15:58:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Asmodeus Et''Mort on 29/06/2011 16:13:21
Edited by: Asmodeus Et''Mort on 29/06/2011 15:58:53
Epeens a troll Ive given him countless examples in the business world where action like this has effected a change in a companies strategy but he ignores facts and simply insults people,

scatalogical argument is just that scat!

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.29 16:29:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Mr Epeen
Edited by: Mr Epeen on 29/06/2011 07:29:33
Originally by: Skex Relbore



You're a non entity you're a forum alt with no actual game history


Master forum alt, thanks.

I've been a forum alt longer than you have been in existence.

I am the youngest of 15 characters that I currently own. I am confident in my knowledge of EVE history and have watched arrogant ****s like you come and go over and over.

Mr Epeen Cool

~sp~

Inappropriate content removed. Zymurgist



I don't give a **** how long you've played this game or any other. Also I find it ironic that you call me arrogant I think you're engaging in a bit of projection there.

Of course you've already broken the first rule of trolls which is to post a sincere and reasoned argument.

I actually agree with some of your points people who resorted to threats and any who attempted to disrupt CCP's business via illegal means are asshats. Of course like any other leaderless movement there will always be hot heads operating outside conventional norms and it's not at all uncommon for some of them to be agent provocateurs. As Molly Ivins said you always know who the narcs are they're the ones proposing the illegal actions.

However account cancellations are not simply demands they are demands backed up by a threat. They are a way to send a message to CCP that if you go down this path you will do it without my money.

Those threats are effective, How effective? well it tends to depend on how many such threats are issued and how big the downside if they are acted on. 5500 threatened cancellations is serious cash you're talking 82k a month in revenue at risk and that's not something you want when you are already under financial stress. It would require the sale of 1300 monocles a month to make up for that loss and I seriously doubt they'll be selling 1300 monocles per month. CCP will also have demographic data on those accounts too. An account with a long history is more valuable than a new account because you can generally count on them while new players tend to dabble a bit and move on. Particularly in this game.

Maybe you are perfectly fine just meekly accepting what ever decision CCP makes and that's your right.

Personally I think when you see someone who's about to do something stupid that it's the decent thing to warn them of the possible downside.

I think CCP is making a mistake so I'm doing what I can to try and get them to see reason and why it's a mistake before it's too late to change course.

If they don't well its not like EVE was my first MMO nor for that matter the one that I was most invested in, Hell this is a game that I spend more time forum warrioring than actually playing.

I enjoy arguing on the internets hell I enjoy arguing period but people tend to get all butthurt and offended when you do it in meat space. They do in cyberspace as well but I'm not likely to get sent to jail after I break their jaw when they take a swing at me.


and what? I'm supposed to be all scared that you're going to hunt me down and shoot my space pixels? oooh,I'm quaking in my boots. What are you 12? I'm a former Marine I don't get intimidated in meat space, you think I'm going to be intimidated in a game? lol.

I don't know how this is all going to play out, well actually I suspect CCP will go through with their stupidity either way but at least I'll be able to point and laugh at them and their defenders when this all falls to pieces.


Mithrasith
Posted - 2011.06.29 16:53:00 - [59]
 

I think there's only one thing to be said about this fisaco.

If anyone actually stays to play this game, either by plex, or by sub, they have no self-respect.

*you've just been told by the CEO that you are a golden goose for him to milk again and again and again. In short, he has no respect for you.

*Its just been confirmed that their strategy has been in fact to add new shiney content to attract new subs so they can fund OTHER projects. In other words, instead of fixing the problems with this game, they have diverted resources to getting additional revenue sources to bring more subs in

*you've just been told that you are full of hot air and no action. Sticking around will simply reinforce his view that he can kick you in the nuts, treat you like sh*t, spit all over you, and in the end, you'll come back and suckle the salt off of his b*lls.


The attitude of CCP isnt going to change
In short, if any of you stay, you have no self-respect. You might as well be a prison b*tch.

Keep that in mind. All of you.

Maybe you should all listen to the permaband video again, this time with a different viewpoint

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4NZUOGj8vY&feature=relmfu

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.06.29 17:09:00 - [60]
 

Not entirely true. If you continue playing EVE as you always have (aka before Incarna), you aren't buying into CCP's new direction. Now once they start infringing on that, then you lose if you buy.

But, if you are buying Aurum, then yes. You freely admit you will throw money at anything.

My PayPal account loves donations, it even gives you 10% cash back.


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