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blankseplocked To Turret art team: Railguns do not have recoil
 
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Corin en Daire
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:01:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Crispin McTarmac
[There's no friction in space travel to begin with...


Friction in space, as written from a physicist at the Argonne National Laboratory.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy05/phy05162.htm

There are still atoms of matter floating around in space. How do you think the planets and stars formed, to begin with?

Crispin McTarmac
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:06:00 - [92]
 

So when my half kilometre-long maelstrom travels with the warp drive, it's actually using the warp drive merely to remove the lightspeed barrier and using the standard drive to accelerate to that speed? Why can't I accelerate at billions of Gs in the same way during combat, and fly around at hundreds of kilometres a second? Also why don't the particles of the ship and it's pressurised atmospheric habitat count when figuring out if the warp bubble contains a "perfect" vacum?

xeitgeist
Amarr
Dirty Rotten Imposters
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:06:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Ellen Forestfire
Originally by: xeitgeist
Edited by: xeitgeist on 28/06/2011 15:09:05

and what kind of moron thinks lasers have recoil?


This kind. Electromagnetic radiation is of non-zero energy with non-zero frequency.Very Happy

Re: Blasters, depending on the mass of the plasma ejected from the cyclotron and how the device is mounted on the hull, visible recoil may or may not occur. But the recoil effect in itself is still there. If it's firmly attached and contains no moving parts, it would affect the ship as a whole and be less noticeable, perhaps to the point of being justifiably neglected in game animations. Depending of course on the ability of the ship itself to compensate for it.Laughing


Plasma is matter, not energy turd brain. lern 2 science.

Vin Hellsing
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:10:00 - [94]
 

Edited by: Vin Hellsing on 28/06/2011 16:10:26
Originally by: Athellant Nardieu
Originally by: Cataca
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Fellblade
There is recoil on railguns.

QFT


Every force has a counterforce, even light.


Light isn't a force.


Tell that to the solar winds, essentially the Sun's farts.

Corin en Daire
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:14:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: xeitgeist
Plasma is matter, not energy turd brain. lern 2 science.


Matter = energy = matter. Ever head of "E = mc^2," "energy is equal to mass times ..." ?

You can also rewrite it to a very valid m = E/c^2, where "mass equals energy divided by ..."

Ellen Forestfire
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:15:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: xeitgeist
Originally by: Ellen Forestfire
Originally by: xeitgeist
Edited by: xeitgeist on 28/06/2011 15:09:05

and what kind of moron thinks lasers have recoil?


This kind. Electromagnetic radiation is of non-zero energy with non-zero frequency.Very Happy

Re: Blasters, depending on the mass of the plasma ejected from the cyclotron and how the device is mounted on the hull, visible recoil may or may not occur. But the recoil effect in itself is still there. If it's firmly attached and contains no moving parts, it would affect the ship as a whole and be less noticeable, perhaps to the point of being justifiably neglected in game animations. Depending of course on the ability of the ship itself to compensate for it.Laughing


Plasma is matter, not energy turd brain. lern 2 science.


I sincerely hope you are just trolling, and that you are not considering physics research as a future career option. Laughing

Would read again.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:17:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Ellen Forestfire
Originally by: xeitgeist
Plasma is matter, not energy turd brain. lern 2 science.
I sincerely hope you are just trolling, and that you are not considering physics research as a future career option. Laughing
It's hard to have a state of matter without matter…

Gah'q
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:44:00 - [98]
 

Who uses railguns anyway ? Projectile weapons are all the rage nowadays.

Vin Hellsing
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:51:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Gah'q
Who uses railguns anyway ? Projectile weapons are all the rage nowadays.


Not sure if serious.

Railguns *are* projectile weapons. :p

Saint Lazarus
Pwn 'N Play
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:53:00 - [100]
 

I just checked in game, confirming Railguns DO have recoil.

Gah'q
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:57:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Vin Hellsing
Originally by: Gah'q
Who uses railguns anyway ? Projectile weapons are all the rage nowadays.


Not sure if serious.

Railguns *are* projectile weapons. :p


Not as funny if I have to explain it. Just look up Railguns and Projectile Turrets when the Market comes back up and you'll see my point.

Satander Zeiss
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:00:00 - [102]
 

I use monocle guns because they produce backlash rather than recoil! YARRRR!!

Calden De'Altos
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:01:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Calden De''Altos on 28/06/2011 17:02:54
Edited by: Calden De''Altos on 28/06/2011 17:02:35
Just for the people who don't understand how a rail gun works (in theory):

Its very simular to how a monorail train works (electromagnetic rails). Magnets are turned on and off rapidly causing the train with opposite-poled magnets on it, to accelertae do to the desire of the two magnets to repel each other. The rail gun does the same thing by using magnets to propel (or rather repell) its ammo out of the barrel.

So, now that the physics have been described, has anyone seen a momorial have recoil? I thought not.


Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:10:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Ah, language, how ambiguous you are…
Originally by: Clairvoiyance Huren
Railguns do not have recoil
Do you meant that they have recoil and shouldn't, or that they should have recoil and don't.
Quote:
avoiding recoil is one of the major points with these thingys, you know.
With which things, exactly? With turrets? With railguns?


I always thought they retracted because if you hit an insect flying at 9 a/u sec it'd rip the turret right off.

Anna Maziarczyk
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:17:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Ira Astrum
Edited by: Ira Astrum on 28/06/2011 10:37:22
Will you just sod off?
This complaining and whining has just gone too far now. Jumping on CCP's back with every little concern, gripe, foible and rant is just pathetic. They've given us the answer we wanted to hear, so stop being *******s and let them do their jobs.

More to the point, recoil looks cool.


Thats kinda what the Forums are for. If a player isnt happy with something, they post about it. Other players confirm or deny their assimilations. And the the devs can fix it, work on it, whatever.

I think www.iloveeveandwanttotalkaboutit.com is still an open web address.

Darik Jita
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:20:00 - [106]
 

Paging Isaac Newton...

Ellen Forestfire
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:20:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Ellen Forestfire
Originally by: xeitgeist
Plasma is matter, not energy turd brain. lern 2 science.
I sincerely hope you are just trolling, and that you are not considering physics research as a future career option. Laughing
It's hard to have a state of matter without matter…


It's hard to what now?

Somebody posted perfectly good equations a bit above on mass-energy equivalence.

Which is completely irrelevant anyway, as plasma is a state of matter. Specifically ionized gas. Which by definition is made up of atoms, ergo it is matter. Therefore it certainly has a mass value, depending on the element(s) involved. It takes a certain amount of energy to accelerate that mass.

Which causes recoil.

I recommend googling if you require a more thorough explanation.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:28:00 - [108]
 

Edited by: Avon on 28/06/2011 17:36:53
Originally by: Corin en Daire
Edited by: Corin en Daire on 28/06/2011 15:39:15
Originally by: Serpent Kamri
That's not entirely true actually, EVE warping is based on the theory that everything can move faster in complete vacuum ( called "perfect vacuum" ), including light. The warp drives create a bubble of a sort around the ship that clears all matter and energy particles, and then spends the rest of the capacitor power to give the ship a good speed boost. Warp drives are like slightly fancier MWDs with shiny bubbles.


The speed of light is taken for when light is in a complete vacuum. See Wikipedia. Every medium has a permittivity constant, even a vacuum.


No, it is based on the speed of light in a "normal" complete vacuum*
If you reduce the potential zero point energy of the vacuum you allow light to travel faster.
The description in Eve lore is based on reducing the upper limit of the vacuum expectation value through use of the Casmir effect. By reducing the wavelengths that can exist in the vacuum you lower the energy state of the vacuum, thus allowing light to travel faster than the speed of light would be in a "normal" energy vacuum.

It may sound crazy, but that's physics Jim.

*Added for clarity: A "normal" vacuum would be defined as one with the lowest possible rest energy state, however, due to zero point energy this is not a null energy state.
Even a hard vacuum has energy, either real or virtual, which through the wonders of quantum mechanics will prevent light going faster than we expect.
The speed of light in vacuum is considered by many as a "rule" simply because it is hard the grasp the concept of something even easier for light to travel through than a vacuum - a medium with less resistance.

Xionis Zeshun
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:31:00 - [109]
 

Lazers don't have recoil, they have cooling sheaths. Or at least that's how I think of it. Since they added heat glow to the barrels, and space is a ****ty place to try and get rid of heat (wonder how many people gonna argue that one), it makes sense to include some kind of heat sink the barrel can retract into before the next shot.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:32:00 - [110]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 28/06/2011 17:32:53
Originally by: Ellen Forestfire
It's hard to what now?
It's hard to have a state of matter (e.g. plasma) without matter (which exists in the state in question).
Quote:
I recommend googling if you require a more thorough explanation.
I recommend quoting the right post if you're going to argue a point someone made.

Anna Maziarczyk
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:33:00 - [111]
 



The Turrets are CLEARLY in a Superposition. They arent arent, they arent are, they arent arent or are at the same are. CLEARLY.

Crispin McTarmac
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:39:00 - [112]
 

Edited by: Crispin McTarmac on 28/06/2011 17:39:57
Originally by: Xionis Zeshun
Lazers don't have recoil, they have cooling sheaths. Or at least that's how I think of it. Since they added heat glow to the barrels, and space is a ****ty place to try and get rid of heat (wonder how many people gonna argue that one), it makes sense to include some kind of heat sink the barrel can retract into before the next shot.


Nice, I hadn't thought of that. Or perhaps it's some oddball design which incorporates a coolant pump into the structure of the barrel itself, pumping hot fluid into radiator veins and emitting the heat into space.

Ellen Forestfire
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:09:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Ellen Forestfire on 28/06/2011 18:10:28
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 28/06/2011 17:32:53It's hard to have a state of matter (e.g. plasma) without matter (which exists in the state in question).

I recommend quoting the right post if you're going to argue a point someone made.


Absence of matter was never suggested or implied in any way or form. Unless you deliberately take words out of context, a reference to plasma does refer to the matter that it is a state of. Not to the actual state of matter as a term in the scientific field of physics or chemistry. There is no sense in elaborating to "the electrically neutral medium that is a shapeless form of typically highly conductive matter composed of unbound but non-free positive ions of element X and negative electrons".

There is also very little to argue towards troll posts besides pretending to be polite and giving the benefit of the doubt.

Ultimately completely irrelevant to the recoil of Blasters regardless.

To return to the original point of the whole forum thread, technically all of the main weapon types(projectiles, hybrids, energy and missile weapons) have some form of recoil, but it would be least noticeable for missiles(only relevant to the means with which the missile exits the tube or other module) and lasers(it would take a tremendously high energy beam to produce recoil noticeable to the naked eye). Not necessarily in that order, though.

But considering you can see the laser beams to begin with in the absence of an appropriate medium, it should be the least of all concerns in terms of realism. Lasers should be completely invisible in space even to cameras unless it's reflected off something or excites a medium to the point of emitting light.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:16:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 28/06/2011 18:17:34
Originally by: Ellen Forestfire
Absence of matter was never suggested or implied in any way or form.
He wrote: “Plasma is matter, not energy” to which you strangely answered “I sincerely hope you are just trolling”…

…so it sounds like you rather did imply it.

Yes, I know the context, but the way you answered that post, you said something that was quite the opposite of what you probably meant.

Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:20:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Calden De'Altos


So, now that the physics have been described, has anyone seen a momorial have recoil? I thought not.




http://memedepot.com/uploads/0/207_not_sure_if_serious.jpg

Crispin McTarmac
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:28:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Ellen Forestfire

But considering you can see the laser beams to begin with in the absence of an appropriate medium, it should be the least of all concerns in terms of realism. Lasers should be completely invisible in space even to cameras unless it's reflected off something or excites a medium to the point of emitting light.


That's not really a problem. Being able to see where a laser is firing is useful information to have on your screen, so it makes sense to assume that the camera drone is rendering a laser beam effect for this purpose.

Nubia Sekhen
Gallente
Dangerously Inebriated Enterprises
DUST ALLIANCE
Posted - 2011.06.28 19:04:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Najian
Also, in space, loud noises like explosions and turret fire are EXTRA LOUD because there is no air to get in the way of the sound.




There is a point in here. It's sort of half-true.
The matter that build up the warhead (that is blown apart) will act as a vibration/shockwave. When it hits something, there energy will be transfered. If the energy is transfered in to our ears or a device to record them, there will be sounds.

Since most shockwaves travel faster then "normal sound", you are correct!

There is more behind this, but I just can't be bothered to explain everything.
Think a little for your selves.

Ellen Forestfire
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.28 19:09:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 28/06/2011 18:17:34
He wrote: “Plasma is matter, not energy” to which you strangely answered “I sincerely hope you are just trolling”…

…so it sounds like you rather did imply it.

Yes, I know the context, but the way you answered that post, you said something that was quite the opposite of what you probably meant.


The 'strange answer' was in reference to mass-energy equivalence. In calculations related to acceleration it would be treated as matter. Perhaps it was poorly worded, but I assumed that anybody discussing it would be aware of the old E = mc^2 equation and not claim such a thing except with the intention of trolling around(considering the half-baked insult embedded in it, which is now also in my signature) or by mistake. Hence the comment. Especially considering its lack of relevance to the topic(Strange statement to use as a reply to a post focused on the recoil of a mass exiting a weapon based around a cyclotron).

Hopefully it is cleared up now though. Very Happy

Personally I just like the recoil effects regardless of their realism. It would be boring were they completely still. Aesthetics in computer games always appeal to me.

Wannabehero
Wayward Ventures
Posted - 2011.06.28 19:11:00 - [119]
 

Edited by: Wannabehero on 28/06/2011 19:14:52

Having made a railgun IRL, I can't tell you they do, in fact, have recoil. Impressive recoil TBH.

Edit: And if you happen to wire your current backwards, they have impressive... um... opposite of recoil... discoil maybe? uncoil?

Lets just call it forward impulse

Blacksquirrel
Posted - 2011.06.28 19:17:00 - [120]
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y54aLcC3G74&feature=related

Well theres an actual one firing. See if that helps.


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