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DuKackBoon
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:16:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: DuKackBoon on 28/06/2011 12:16:27
Lasers have recoil just like any other firing mechanism. You can even move a ship by shooting a laser out the back.


I have a much bigger problem with Railguns: Where the fheck are the muzzles? Most railguns have no muzzle openings.

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:22:00 - [62]
 

We had a giant thread last month explaining why railguns have lots of recoil and laser guns have a little recoil.

Railgun reoil = projectile recoil

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:23:00 - [63]
 

Anything that projects an object with a non-null mass will have non-null recoil.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:05:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Cataca
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Fellblade
There is recoil on railguns.

QFT


Every force has a counterforce, even light.


(World of) Darkness? Laughing

Morgan Polaris
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:12:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: DuKackBoon
Edited by: DuKackBoon on 28/06/2011 12:16:27
Lasers have recoil just like any other firing mechanism. You can even move a ship by shooting a laser out the back.


I have a much bigger problem with Railguns: Where the fheck are the muzzles? Most railguns have no muzzle openings.


You know, where the slug is released from the rails will do fine as 'muzzle'. All that plasma directly following a slug can surely classify as a muzzle flash.

Cataca
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:12:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Velicitia
Originally by: Cataca
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Fellblade
There is recoil on railguns.

QFT


Every force has a counterforce, even light.


(World of) Darkness? Laughing


heh

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:14:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: DuKackBoon
I have a much bigger problem with Railguns: Where the fheck are the muzzles? Most railguns have no muzzle openings.
Why would it matter?

Lhaim
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:17:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Najian
Also, in space, loud noises like explosions and turret fire are EXTRA LOUD because there is no air to get in the way of the sound.




10/10, would read again

Crispin McTarmac
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:41:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: DuKackBoon
I have a much bigger problem with Railguns: Where the fheck are the muzzles? Most railguns have no muzzle openings.
Why would it matter?


I think it would probably matter quite a lot if you designed a gun with nowhere for the bullet to come out.

Hra Neuvosto
The 8th Order
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:46:00 - [70]
 

This thread: Crying or Very sad

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:50:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Crispin McTarmac
I think it would probably matter quite a lot if you designed a gun with nowhere for the bullet to come out.
Laughing
Ok, fair enough. Why would it matter when it comes to railguns having recoil or not? Assuming that they are somehow capable of hurling slugs off into the distance…

Discrodia
Gallente
Symbiosis International
Moose Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:54:00 - [72]
 

Isaac Newton called, and he is disappoint.

Benri Konpaku
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:01:00 - [73]
 

I see players are still confusing this submarine game with a spaceships one. Laughing

Corin en Daire
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:03:00 - [74]
 

Test fire of US Navy's 32 Mejajoule rail gun prototype. Watch for the recoil at time 0:12. They do have dampeners installed, so the noticeable movement is only a few inches at most.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BfU-wMwL2U

xeitgeist
Amarr
Dirty Rotten Imposters
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:04:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: xeitgeist on 28/06/2011 15:09:05
travelling faster than light is impossible yet nobody complains about that

railguns/autocannon turrets HAVE to have recoil in space or otherwise they would throw the ship off course

and what kind of moron thinks lasers have recoil?

Corin en Daire
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:17:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Corin en Daire on 28/06/2011 15:19:55
Recoil from a LASER weapon; a blog from a physicist at Cornell University.

http://thevirtuosi.blogspot.com/2010/04/today-id-like-to-approach-question-near.html

The summary: "...it seems like laser guns may well have recoil." (last sentence) HOWEVER, the recoil felt would be a small fraction of what we're used to.

The example he gives is that if a laser weapon were to emit the same amount of energy as there is in a fired .22 caliber bullet. In this example, the argued laser weapon would produced 15 Newtons of recoil force.

Crispin McTarmac
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:18:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: xeitgeist
Edited by: xeitgeist on 28/06/2011 15:09:05
travelling faster than light is impossible yet nobody complains about that



Ships in eve don't travel faster than light. They move the space occupied by the ship faster than the speed of light. Space can move as fast as it likes. Granted we don't have the technology to do that yet, but it's possible given the current information we have about the universe that there might be an adequate way of moving space.

Ellen Forestfire
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:23:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: xeitgeist
Edited by: xeitgeist on 28/06/2011 15:09:05

and what kind of moron thinks lasers have recoil?


This kind. Electromagnetic radiation is of non-zero energy with non-zero frequency.Very Happy

Re: Blasters, depending on the mass of the plasma ejected from the cyclotron and how the device is mounted on the hull, visible recoil may or may not occur. But the recoil effect in itself is still there. If it's firmly attached and contains no moving parts, it would affect the ship as a whole and be less noticeable, perhaps to the point of being justifiably neglected in game animations. Depending of course on the ability of the ship itself to compensate for it.Laughing

C0mbat W0mbat
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:25:00 - [79]
 

OP admitted that he uses railguns ...
or he knows ppl that use railguns ...
in todays eve ....
and then he only complains about graphics???

Aessaya
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:26:00 - [80]
 

Apparently OP doesn't know how railgun works.

ANYTHING involving accelerating a projectile (thus the regular projectile guns, railguns, blasters and even lasers to some degree) generate force to do so, thus, by Newton's third law of motion the system that accelerates projectile generates a recoil force equal but in opposite direction of the force used to accelerate the said projectile. Even lasers generate said recoil, but to much lesser degree (due to much lower impulse of the photon particles). Thus not implementing a recoil mechanism would mean that the full force is exorted on the fastening points of the gun, and the recoil mechanisms (moving barrels, shock absorbers, etc) are here to minimize and dampen the said force.
Projectiles accelerate bullets, railguns accelerate projectiles known as "slugs", blasters accelerate ionized particles and lasers "accelerate" photons (they don't, but they still incur some force feedback from the system).

Serpent Kamri
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:28:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Serpent Kamri on 28/06/2011 15:29:09
Originally by: Crispin McTarmac
Originally by: xeitgeist
travelling faster than light is impossible yet nobody complains about that
Ships in eve don't travel faster than light. They move the space occupied by the ship faster than the speed of light. Space can move as fast as it likes. Granted we don't have the technology to do that yet, but it's possible given the current information we have about the universe that there might be an adequate way of moving space.
That's not entirely true actually, EVE warping is based on the theory that everything can move faster in complete vacuum ( called "perfect vacuum" ), including light. The warp drives create a bubble of a sort around the ship that clears all matter and energy particles, and then spends the rest of the capacitor power to give the ship a good speed boost. Warp drives are like slightly fancier MWDs with shiny bubbles.

Ponderous Thunderstroke
Republic War Machine Industries
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:29:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Najian
Also, in space, loud noises like explosions and turret fire are EXTRA LOUD because there is no air to get in the way of the sound.





11/10, brilliant.

Caldari Citizen20090217
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:32:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Clairvoiyance Huren
avoiding recoil is one of the major points with these thingys, you know.


Physics. You fail at it.

Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Emminent Terraforming
O.G.-Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:36:00 - [84]
 

id love to know the recoil on this shot then....
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Law Deschain
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:36:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Clairvoiyance Huren
avoiding recoil is one of the major points with these thingys, you know.


"The recoil force exerted on the rails is equal and opposite to the force propelling the projectile. The seat of the recoil force is still debated. The traditional equations predict that the recoil force acts on the breech of the railgun. Another school of thought invokes Ampère's force law and asserts that it acts along the length of the rails (which is their strongest axis).[7] The rails also repel themselves via a sideways force caused by the rails being pushed by the magnetic field, just as the projectile is. The rails need to survive this without bending, and must be very securely mounted."


Corin en Daire
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:36:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Corin en Daire on 28/06/2011 15:39:15
Originally by: Serpent Kamri
That's not entirely true actually, EVE warping is based on the theory that everything can move faster in complete vacuum ( called "perfect vacuum" ), including light. The warp drives create a bubble of a sort around the ship that clears all matter and energy particles, and then spends the rest of the capacitor power to give the ship a good speed boost. Warp drives are like slightly fancier MWDs with shiny bubbles.


The speed of light is taken for when light is in a complete vacuum. See Wikipedia. Every medium has a permittivity constant, even a vacuum.

Crispin McTarmac
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:41:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Serpent Kamri
That's not entirely true actually, EVE warping is based on the theory that everything can move faster in complete vacuum ( called "perfect vacuum" ), including light. The warp drives create a bubble of a sort around the ship that clears all matter and energy particles, and then spends the rest of the capacitor power to give the ship a good speed boost. Warp drives are like slightly fancier MWDs with shiny bubbles.


Well that's just nonsense. That's even worse than the dark matter explanation for giving ships a "top speed" attribute. There's no friction in space travel to begin with, and you still have to accelerate the ship at a rate of billions of Gs which is going to reduce your crew to strawberry jam and require a ridiculous amount of energy. And if you even solve those problems the lightspeed barrier is still as strong as ever. I think I'll keep my own explanation thank you very much

Serpent Kamri
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:46:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Corin en Daire
The speed of light is taken for when light is in a complete vacuum. See Wikipedia. Every medium has a permittivity constant, even a vacuum.
As it's impossible to achieve perfect vacuum in practice, it would be rather difficult to measure the speed of light in it.

Serpent Kamri
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:50:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Crispin McTarmac
Well that's just nonsense. That's even worse than the dark matter explanation for giving ships a "top speed" attribute. There's no friction in space travel to begin with, and you still have to accelerate the ship at a rate of billions of Gs which is going to reduce your crew to strawberry jam and require a ridiculous amount of energy. And if you even solve those problems the lightspeed barrier is still as strong as ever. I think I'll keep my own explanation thank you very much
*sigh*

Here, I even dug out the article for you: http://www.eveonline.com/background/jump/jump_05.asp

"All space ships are equipped with a jump drive device. The jump drive creates depleted vacuum by repeatedly ‘compressing’ vacuum between two polar discs, draining all energy neutrons and quarks out of it. A laser-locked field is then created to hold the ever-increasing depleted vacuum bubble until it has enveloped the whole ship. When that happens the ship is able to enter FTL speed"


Corin en Daire
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:52:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: Corin en Daire on 28/06/2011 15:56:15
Edited by: Corin en Daire on 28/06/2011 15:54:51
Edited by: Corin en Daire on 28/06/2011 15:53:01
Originally by: Serpent Kamri
As it's impossible to achieve perfect vacuum in practice, it would be rather difficult to measure the speed of light in it.


They don't measure the maximum speed of light, they calculate it due to quantum uncertainty (momentum and velocity can not be measured simultaneously to an infinite precision). Mind you, like all things in science, nothing is an absolute truth; a photon's calculated maximum velocity in a complete vacuum (meaning emptied of all matter) comes from the equations of today's theories.

Many technologies of today's science come purely from the results of our theories' mathematical equations.

edit: I'm talking about maximum velocity of light, here. It is completely normal to have a photon going less than the speed of light. Yes, you can measure the speed of light, but you'll always end up with something less than the calculated maximum speed.


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