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blankseplocked Does anybody share my disappointment with the Vindicator?
 
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Taharqua10
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:27:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Taharqua10 on 28/06/2011 09:27:50
I bought my first Vindicator & I am somewhat underwhelmed.

I set up the ship as a blaster boat with the fit suggested on battle clinic which to be honest is mostly the same as everybody suggested.

The problem is getting into range to use those webs & the awesome damage bonus. The cap usage is well simply atrocious even to get in range. Its a great ship for killing when in range but to use it in PVP would be somewhat difficult as you have to get in range & a missile or rail fleet is not going to find it difficult to kill you at range even before you can bring those blasters to bear.

Would it be better to fit as a rail fit to keep some range between you & the enemy but that makes the web bonus somewhat uselessSad

I don't know whether in PVP your vindicator should be supported with a guardian fleet- that would do it- but unless you had a guardian fleet I would be very wary to fly this ship in PVP.

So, I ask the question, how is this ship best used & please don't flame me it is a genuine question from a new user of this ship. I have very good skills in guns & armour but I'm thinking very hard about selling this ship as I can't rationalise a realistic role for it other than mission running & I know other ships do this better.

This seems, talking to other players, the problem with blaster boats in general, most being Gallente or some derivative of.

Your comments please.

Angelina Morgan
Amarr
Blue Ice Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:42:00 - [2]
 

There are places where blaster boat like Vindicator shines (hint: incursions) use them in those areas.

Taharqua10
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:49:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Angelina Morgan
There are places where blaster boat like Vindicator shines (hint: incursions) use them in those areas.


Thanks for that info. We do incursions with shield tanked ships so have a number of Basilisks in fleet so would either need to shield tank the Vindicator or get a Guardian in fleet.

Has anybody got a Vindicator shield tank fit they can let me see?

Angelina Morgan
Amarr
Blue Ice Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:51:00 - [4]
 


Kasken
Amarr
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:57:00 - [5]
 

The Vindi is a faction ship and should be treated as such, don't skimp on the fittings. 90% web bonus with faction webs for range and overheating gives you plenty of ability to get into range. Logi does help you survive of course, but 1v1 if you get them webbed down there are not too many ships that will touch a vindi in a straight up bs brawl.

Problem with using it in pvp, and most people are smart enough to not engage it solo, they usually have a gank fleet to fight it. The key to winning with this ship is faction modules where appropriate. My own personal vindi does just under 1600 DPS, with a very solid passive tank... even when I'm not in my slaves (which is most of the time).

using a vindi for PVE imo is just lolz. This is a pvp boat pure and simple.

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:08:00 - [6]
 

i'm very curious: how people use Vindi there? I mean: do you need to fly to every rat in field (which is very funny) or rats are coming to you?

ChromeStriker
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:26:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Miss Rabblt
i'm very curious: how people use Vindi there? I mean: do you need to fly to every rat in field (which is very funny) or rats are coming to you?


you fly towards them... they fly toward you.... some stuff happens, explotions nwhat not.... you come out the other side.... ????.... profit

Hekira Soikutsu
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:42:00 - [8]
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HQYWM7-T784#t=619s

Its a ship you tend to use in certain situations. Note that all the engagements occur on the gate and never anywhere where deaggressing is not possible. Well except for the last fight which... Just demonstrates my point.

I'd suggest the Machariel since you already have the skills to fly (well at least the hull), and your post seems to suggest you'd like to fly solo.

If you are bent on the Vindicator perhaps try a Hyperion first? You won't get the kind of performance out of that hull but at least you'd make most of your mistakes with a cheap hull.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:47:00 - [9]
 

Use the right tool for the job. Blaster boats are extremely powerful under 15km so try to use it in situations where that is the starting range (ie gate camps, station camps and using a prober for warp ins. Secondly, never fit anything short of a fed navy web on it. The extra 40% range on them makes a world of difference and that 14km range becomes 18km with heat. Throw in a loki booster and you're looking at 25km webs.

In terms of flying style, it's the same as all the other blaster boats. Overload your MWD to close the gap, scram/web them asap (use heat) and then nuke them at point blank range. Obviously once you've got your scram and 90% web (or two) on him you won't be needing your mwd anymore, they aren't going anywhere.Wink

If you want to fight at longer ranges, the traditional ranged ships are better (amarr/caldari). For shiny ranged ships, the navy geddon and navy apoc are tough to beat for the price tag. I am a bit surprised seeing all these shield gang posts for incursions. Must be the caldari influence as armor gangs stomp shields for incursions in my limited experience. MWD's, webs and TP's are very handy I find.

TalonKarrde84
Posted - 2011.06.29 01:28:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
Must be the caldari influence as armor gangs stomp shields for incursions in my limited experience.


I've been running incursions for almost a month and a half now, logging on nightly and FCing vanguard sites, as well as participating in assaults, HQs, and mothership kills.

Your experience is limited, indeed.

- Armor can barely muster 80 people to kill a mothership. This is less the case nowadays now that "the secret's out" and everyone and their momma is doing incursions, but up until about a week ago Armor never, ever beat Shield to a mothership kill. This is because the Shield community is about four times larger than the Armor community, and with better leadership (at least in the EU timeslot).

- In a site contested by both an armor fleet and a shield fleet, shield will always win, because shield-tanked ships are able to dedicate more module slots to DPS, whereas armor is slightly stronger on tank.


Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.06.29 01:31:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
Must be the caldari influence as armor gangs stomp shields for incursions in my limited experience. MWD's, webs and TP's are very handy I find.


man you have no idea wtf you are talking about

Jim Tudeski
Posted - 2011.06.29 02:37:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Taharqua10
Edited by: Taharqua10 on 28/06/2011 09:27:50
I bought my first Vindicator & I am somewhat underwhelmed.

I set up the ship as a blaster boat with the fit suggested on battle clinic which to be honest is mostly the same as everybody suggested.

The problem is getting into range to use those webs & the awesome damage bonus. The cap usage is well simply atrocious even to get in range. Its a great ship for killing when in range but to use it in PVP would be somewhat difficult as you have to get in range & a missile or rail fleet is not going to find it difficult to kill you at range even before you can bring those blasters to bear.

Would it be better to fit as a rail fit to keep some range between you & the enemy but that makes the web bonus somewhat uselessSad

I don't know whether in PVP your vindicator should be supported with a guardian fleet- that would do it- but unless you had a guardian fleet I would be very wary to fly this ship in PVP.

So, I ask the question, how is this ship best used & please don't flame me it is a genuine question from a new user of this ship. I have very good skills in guns & armour but I'm thinking very hard about selling this ship as I can't rationalise a realistic role for it other than mission running & I know other ships do this better.

This seems, talking to other players, the problem with blaster boats in general, most being Gallente or some derivative of.

Your comments please.

Contract your Vindicator to Jim Tudeski. I will hold it for you until you grow a brain and get the skills to properly use the ship. Tyvm.

Irie Irie Irie
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.29 02:39:00 - [13]
 

LOL PVE flexing.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.06.29 02:47:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Mfume Apocal
Originally by: King Rothgar
Must be the caldari influence as armor gangs stomp shields for incursions in my limited experience. MWD's, webs and TP's are very handy I find.


man you have no idea wtf you are talking about


TalonKarrde84 confirmed what I said more or less and you haven't disputed anything specifically. I can't say I've seen one of the sansha SC's go down as I just can't stand more than about 30 minutes of pve in one sitting. But I've done a fair number of the normal vanguard and assault sites, the armor gangs always seem to complete them faster thanks to increased EW ability. I was talked into joining a fleet to take down the sansha SC once, but we were unable to get enough people to actually do it. We did see a shield gang take it down but we were armor. And once again, that doesn't mean shields are better, just more people are caldari spec'd.Wink

Irie Irie Irie
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.29 03:23:00 - [15]
 

Surprise surprise there are more Raven/Tengu/Drake PVE bears than anything else. Easy mode always appeals to the weak.

Bubanni
Cryptonym Sleepers
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.29 04:38:00 - [16]
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHOackUoAt4 - Vindicator in Sanctum
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgb2CdMDZ5w - Vindicator in level 4 mission

Videos I made with my "jewboat" :P it's quite effective

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.06.30 09:17:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
TalonKarrde84 confirmed what I said more or less and you haven't disputed anything specifically.


dude, did you actually read what he wrote?

Originally by: TalonKarrde84
In a site contested by both an armor fleet and a shield fleet, shield will always win, because shield-tanked ships are able to dedicate more module slots to DPS, whereas armor is slightly stronger on tank.


Originally by: King Rothgar
But I've done a fair number of the normal vanguard and assault sites, the armor gangs always seem to complete them faster thanks to increased EW ability.


shield gangs usually have enough webs to go around, between the vindis, huginns and lokis. its pretty rare that shield fleets dont have at least one.

Songbird
Gallente
T.I.E. Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.30 10:59:00 - [18]
 

actually it's shield that has more tank, I've flown with both shield and armor.

maybe it has to do with the fact that expl/kin is better tanked with shield(you start from 50% expl) , or the blanket protection of 1m isk t2 invuln, which armor can only match with faction/ded space modules that cost more than the whole ship. Or is it the fact that shield repping starts at the beginning of the cycle. We may never know.
But a lot of shield fleets run with 2 logis and majority of armor ones fly with 3.

Still properly fit armor fleet will do just as much dps as shield. And it will certainly have the tracking and webbing.

I think it all boils down to how good individual pilots are , both at flying and fitting, and how demanding the FC's are :)

Vokradacka
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:30:00 - [19]
 

Vindi is Ok, but large blasters are still sux.. :( maybe next yearYARRRR!!

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:47:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: King Rothgar on 30/06/2011 19:48:14
Originally by: Mfume Apocal
Originally by: King Rothgar
TalonKarrde84 confirmed what I said more or less and you haven't disputed anything specifically.


dude, did you actually read what he wrote?

Originally by: TalonKarrde84
In a site contested by both an armor fleet and a shield fleet, shield will always win, because shield-tanked ships are able to dedicate more module slots to DPS, whereas armor is slightly stronger on tank.


Originally by: King Rothgar
But I've done a fair number of the normal vanguard and assault sites, the armor gangs always seem to complete them faster thanks to increased EW ability.


shield gangs usually have enough webs to go around, between the vindis, huginns and lokis. its pretty rare that shield fleets dont have at least one.


I was referring to the below statement.

"- Armor can barely muster 80 people to kill a mothership. This is less the case nowadays now that "the secret's out" and everyone and their momma is doing incursions, but up until about a week ago Armor never, ever beat Shield to a mothership kill. This is because the Shield community is about four times larger than the Armor community, and with better leadership (at least in the EU timeslot)."

I admit I did gloss over the very last part about shield gangs doing more dps. That is pure bull****. Want proof armor does just as much dps as shield? Fit a zealot, absolution, geddon, abaddon or palidin with an equal number of damage mods as your cerb/drake/nighthawk/raven and tell me which does more dps. If you say oh you can't put 3x heatsinks on any of those I call bull****, of course you can and it's standard.

Let's also not forget that you can of course use the other two armor races too. Blasters aren't optimal due to short range so we'll leave out gallente but the hurricane is pretty good for incursions. You can also use an armor tanked phoon, pest or mach if you so desire. And don't forget instant damage application. Your cruise missiles may shoot 200km but it takes more than just a few seconds to reach their targets. This causes all sorts of problems with focus fire. Turret ships have no such troubles.

Lastly and this is really the point I was making all along, EW and MWD's are sort of a form of DPS. It doesn't add to raw dps of course but it does make it much easier to apply it. MWD's, webs, TP's and ECCM are key in incursion sites I find and although yes, you can squeeze on one or two such mods onto shield ships, armor ships can pack all of that at the same time. And that's very useful. When I've run incursions, I have never seen a shield gang complete a site as fast as the armor gang I'm in.

Edit: In any case, this is completely OT. The vindicator is a superb pvp ship in the right situations. Just don't get into any 40-50km range slug fests that the amarr ships love so much.


 

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