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San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:06:00 - [1]
 

Oh well, thank god for that then.

Guess it's save to re-subscribe? NO!!!


You can bet the parameters of that discussion are already defined & any debate will be within those parameters or it just won't be acknowledged at all.

What parameters?

-MT, no player wanted MT, we were forced to accept MT because the CSM told us it was ok, only for vanity items & any thoughts otherwise were treated as against the better interests of the game. As players we are made to feel helpless & powerless if disagreeing with the mighty CSM because they are our sanctioned representatives. &Look where we are today.

CQ & Incarna, the vast majority of players didn't give a rats about this garbage but again the CSM told us it was in the best interests of EvE & would be optional - lies.

Now after a disaster of a patch, insulting MT items that make the game a laughing stock & player rage & outcry that was met with arrogant & offensive Dev Blogs & an unbelievably damning leaked internal Memo from the big boss, protests in game and out, mass cancelled subscriptions & a threadnaught that breaks all forum records.
Players were then deafened by the silence of the CSM & CCP.

Now we are insulted by a thread from a CSM member telling us in the most condescending terms imaginable that - don't worry everybody - you have been heard!

I should think so! I expect they heard us in outer space.

Do they mean, don't go cancelling your subscriptions anymore?
We are off to Iceland to discuss your concerns for you :) (wow a free OS trip, thank god for player outcry)

Well pardon me if I don't jump for joy at this news, am I really supposed to have any faith in a pathetic NDA gagged, useless, self interested, intimidated, subservient, PR exercise like the CSM?

Really in light of recent events? Where were the CSM when the patch hit? Where were the CSM when the first Dev Blog hit? Where were the CSM when the threadnaught went un-answered for days & days?
Why do they need to fly to Iceland in a week to discuss something that could be achieved on skype in 10 minutes?

Is this just a stalling tactic, buying time while the most un-happy players lose interest & their cancelled subs run out of gametime effectively removing them from the debate?

Yes I believe it is!

By the time they get back most of us that are leaving will be gone or close to gone & CCP knows the ones that remain are the most addicted & gullible, the hard cases they are counting on to bleed dry with their new business model, read; greed is good, MT items.

The real message here is the CSM thinks it's above you the average player. They are extremely condescending as evidenced by the thread by White Tree, and are more than prepared to cooperate with CCP to get CCP's message across.

If this wasn't the case they wouldn't be making a mockery of player rage with thread saying you have been heard, which passively acknowledges that we haven't been heard, we have been ignored & treated like chumps by CCP & their silence & vague answers.

On top of that we are insulted by these losers jetting off to Iceland to 'get answers' CCP obviously doesn't think the average player is worthy of here on these boards.

CCP/CSM - both treating the average $15 a month EvE Joe like total fvcking chumps & laughing to you face.
Don't worry lowly players, you have been heard, we'll head over there in a week & spend a couple of days marveling at the dedication & awesomeness of CCP & get the answers because only we can, they may not be the questions you are asking but we'll dam sure get answers, you can bet on that!!!

Xtreem
Gallente
The Collective
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:17:00 - [2]
 

I actually have some faith in the CSM to be a bit hardline with CCP and tell them what's what! I can only hope my trust is well placed.

Elrica bloodbane
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:19:00 - [3]
 

AS OP SAID +1

SciWolf
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:27:00 - [4]
 

Yep... left eve. no come back =). You know, earning real money instead of playing eve is SO INTERESTING =)...

Holy One
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:28:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Holy One on 28/06/2011 09:29:41
Edited to be less mean.

Kiwi Miner
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:28:00 - [6]
 

It saddens me but I agree, the best we can expect i guess is
"everything will be all right " However we are unable to tell you what is
going to happen because we are under a nda agreement with ccp and the ceo wants us to ignore what players say and think, only watch what the do.
It is for this reason we will be watching you the players leave eve online for which ever game you now choose to play.

all the best csm


feiht'd'ero
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:33:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: San Severina
Oh well, thank god for that then.

Guess it's save to re-subscribe? NO!!!


You can bet the parameters of that discussion are already defined & any debate will be within those parameters or it just won't be acknowledged at all.

What parameters?

-MT, no player wanted MT, we were forced to accept MT because the CSM told us it was ok, only for vanity items & any thoughts otherwise were treated as against the better interests of the game. As players we are made to feel helpless & powerless if disagreeing with the mighty CSM because they are our sanctioned representatives. &Look where we are today.

CQ & Incarna, the vast majority of players didn't give a rats about this garbage but again the CSM told us it was in the best interests of EvE & would be optional - lies.

Now after a disaster of a patch, insulting MT items that make the game a laughing stock & player rage & outcry that was met with arrogant & offensive Dev Blogs & an unbelievably damning leaked internal Memo from the big boss, protests in game and out, mass cancelled subscriptions & a threadnaught that breaks all forum records.
Players were then deafened by the silence of the CSM & CCP.

Now we are insulted by a thread from a CSM member telling us in the most condescending terms imaginable that - don't worry everybody - you have been heard!

I should think so! I expect they heard us in outer space.

Do they mean, don't go cancelling your subscriptions anymore?
We are off to Iceland to discuss your concerns for you :) (wow a free OS trip, thank god for player outcry)

Well pardon me if I don't jump for joy at this news, am I really supposed to have any faith in a pathetic NDA gagged, useless, self interested, intimidated, subservient, PR exercise like the CSM?

Really in light of recent events? Where were the CSM when the patch hit? Where were the CSM when the first Dev Blog hit? Where were the CSM when the threadnaught went un-answered for days & days?
Why do they need to fly to Iceland in a week to discuss something that could be achieved on skype in 10 minutes?

Is this just a stalling tactic, buying time while the most un-happy players lose interest & their cancelled subs run out of gametime effectively removing them from the debate?

Yes I believe it is!

By the time they get back most of us that are leaving will be gone or close to gone & CCP knows the ones that remain are the most addicted & gullible, the hard cases they are counting on to bleed dry with their new business model, read; greed is good, MT items.

The real message here is the CSM thinks it's above you the average player. They are extremely condescending as evidenced by the thread by White Tree, and are more than prepared to cooperate with CCP to get CCP's message across.

If this wasn't the case they wouldn't be making a mockery of player rage with thread saying you have been heard, which passively acknowledges that we haven't been heard, we have been ignored & treated like chumps by CCP & their silence & vague answers.

On top of that we are insulted by these losers jetting off to Iceland to 'get answers' CCP obviously doesn't think the average player is worthy of here on these boards.

CCP/CSM - both treating the average $15 a month EvE Joe like total fvcking chumps & laughing to you face.
Don't worry lowly players, you have been heard, we'll head over there in a week & spend a couple of days marveling at the dedication & awesomeness of CCP & get the answers because only we can, they may not be the questions you are asking but we'll dam sure get answers, you can bet on that!!!


Wow with that much bitter you could market it in england and make a tidy sum to buy PLEX and trade for AUR then get yersef a moni.

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:33:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Kiwi Miner
It saddens me but I agree, the best we can expect i guess is
"everything will be all right " However we are unable to tell you what is
going to happen because we are under a nda agreement with ccp and the ceo wants us to ignore what players say and think, only watch what the do.
It is for this reason we will be watching you the players leave eve online for which ever game you now choose to play.

all the best csm




Yep, enjoy all that awesomeness CSM :D

I won't be here when you get back but then, who gives a **** right? I just some chump player!

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:41:00 - [9]
 

Oi, butthurt much that you didn't make it onto the CSM?


Various CSM members posted during the ragestorm all the time on the forums here, on their blogs, 3rd party sites etc. I don't like the current CSM members either, but you cannot say that they were quiet during the rage.

And where were they before? They didn't get informed by CCP. Maybe their mistake was that they didn't insist more on precise information, that they didn't make an uproar about the blocked information by CCP.

I hope that they will make more trouble the next time CCP blocks such important information. That they won't shut up, whimpering "They didn't inform us". They need to get up and shout "We have a right to know!" next time.

Elrica bloodbane
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:42:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Elrica bloodbane on 28/06/2011 09:42:53
Originally by: San Severina
Originally by: Kiwi Miner
It saddens me but I agree, the best we can expect i guess is
"everything will be all right " However we are unable to tell you what is
going to happen because we are under a nda agreement with ccp and the ceo wants us to ignore what players say and think, only watch what the do.
It is for this reason we will be watching you the players leave eve online for which ever game you now choose to play.

all the best csm





Yep, enjoy all that awesomeness CSM :D

I won't be here when you get back but then, who gives a **** right? I just some chump player!


You won't be on your own.
A lot of us "chumps/cash cows)will be with you.Evil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:43:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: San Severina


I won't be here when you get back but then, who gives a **** right? I just some chump player!


Agreed.

Mr Epeen Cool

Sencyl
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:55:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Sencyl on 28/06/2011 09:55:53
Whatever the outcome, it will not have any big influence about what to expect from future patches.

MT leads to game-design based on drawing max profit out of the playerbase. Expect artificial fun breakers to motivate us to spend more money. If this money is going into the development of games like WoD, I don´t see the reason why any Eve player should be happy about MT coming to Eve.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:05:00 - [13]
 

It's a bit ****ty situation for CSM atm.

First off they were run over by CCP upper management. Then upper management want to save face by addressing CSM.

CSM is now in the boat where players have no trust in CCP (or shouldn't have, after their repeated lies). At the same time players have no trust in CSM either (because of CCP abusing CSM the way they want it).

* If CSM go too hard on CCP they will lose whatever potential listening CCP would've done.
* If CSM just accept CCP's :words: and assume they're not being lied to, CSM basicly just pulled down their pants and dropped soap.

At the end of the day it's not a very nice situation CSM is in. On one hand they have to be diplomatic vs CCP to be able to achieve anything, anything at all. On the other hand, they've gotta demand alot of **** from CCP. Answers, to begin with. And they need reinsurances, so trust can be re-gained in CCP after their lies.

I posted it a few times, but I think the only way to win back confidence (at least for me, as a player), both in CCP and CSM, would be for the upper management in CCP to go. Hilmar would have to do a ****load for me to ever trust him again. I trust his employees, but him? why would I, he certainly has not done anything to deserve it, in fact the opposite.

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:07:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
Oi, butthurt much that you didn't make it onto the CSM?


Various CSM members posted during the ragestorm all the time on the forums here, on their blogs, 3rd party sites etc. I don't like the current CSM members either, but you cannot say that they were quiet during the rage.

And where were they before? They didn't get informed by CCP. Maybe their mistake was that they didn't insist more on precise information, that they didn't make an uproar about the blocked information by CCP.

I hope that they will make more trouble the next time CCP blocks such important information. That they won't shut up, whimpering "They didn't inform us". They need to get up and shout "We have a right to know!" next time.



the CSM did not post all the time on hte forums after the patch. I was here all the time and I didn't see hide nor hair of them, not in General at least. & actually I popped over to jita Speakers too & they were conspicuously absent there too, so feed somebody else this BS, I was here, they weren't.
They should have at least had several threads in General discussing issues with players, they didn't & they weren't here with us. They had better things to do obviously than waste time in here with us riff raff.

Scarlet des Loupes
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:12:00 - [15]
 

YESS they have heard us!! \Very Happy/

Potrondal Morrison
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:30:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes
YESS they have heard us!! \Very Happy/


and the answer is still NO!!!

Scalphunter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:36:00 - [17]
 


Tarinara
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:42:00 - [18]
 

+10 for the general sentiment, but...

If you listen to the Eve Radio podcast which was linked on the forums: it sounds like the CSM ( and even quite a few CCSparkle Monocle employees ) were slightly blindsided by the whole NeX shop/$70 Sparkle Monocle deal. Download that podcast and listen to the last 10 minutes or so when The Mittani joins in. Both in that 10 minutes, and the rest of the program for that matter, I didn't get the impression that anyone CSM involved knew this level of BS was coming.

just my 0.02 ISK...

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:49:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: San Severina on 28/06/2011 10:50:17
Originally by: Tarinara
+10 for the general sentiment, but...

If you listen to the Eve Radio podcast which was linked on the forums: it sounds like the CSM ( and even quite a few CCSparkle Monocle employees ) were slightly blindsided by the whole NeX shop/$70 Sparkle Monocle deal. Download that podcast and listen to the last 10 minutes or so when The Mittani joins in. Both in that 10 minutes, and the rest of the program for that matter, I didn't get the impression that anyone CSM involved knew this level of BS was coming.

just my 0.02 ISK...


I heard the show & the fact they didn't know & their speechlessness on the occasion speaks volumes to what we can expect them to achieve on their little PR stunt on our coin.

I don't wanna sound bitter here but dammit I'm bitter as hell & I'm not gonna take it anymore.

edit; Scalphunter - spot on Cool

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:52:00 - [20]
 

Im going to say it in this thread as well.

If this is how they treat the golden goose. Im not encouraged for how they will treat us going forward when other games take the place of EvE as the golden goose. Not looking promising.

That is all.

Katra Novac
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:56:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: San Severina
Originally by: Tarinara
+10 for the general sentiment, but...

If you listen to the Eve Radio podcast which was linked on the forums: it sounds like the CSM ( and even quite a few CCSparkle Monocle employees ) were slightly blindsided by the whole NeX shop/$70 Sparkle Monocle deal. Download that podcast and listen to the last 10 minutes or so when The Mittani joins in. Both in that 10 minutes, and the rest of the program for that matter, I didn't get the impression that anyone CSM involved knew this level of BS was coming.

just my 0.02 ISK...


I heard the show & the fact they didn't know & their speechlessness on the occasion speaks volumes to what we can expect them to achieve on their little PR stunt on our coin.

I don't wanna sound bitter here but dammit I'm bitter as hell & I'm not gonna take it anymore.





I still think it's basically a PR exercise, not so much for us but for the rest of the world that's watching. Them saying to the rest of the world, see we really do care for our customers. There is no real reason to drag the CSMs to Iceland other than PR. That in itself does not mean nothing good will come from the meeting, but I'm doubtful.

Obviously Confidential
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:02:00 - [22]
 

The CSM is the best vehicle for the players to help CCP see the mistakes they made and change their strategy back to EVE and away from mistakes/bugs/half done expansions/betas for WoD/hooks for DUST/crappy business models/lousy communication.

Acac Sunflyier
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:05:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Acac Sunflyier on 28/06/2011 11:21:17
Originally by: San Severina

Guess it's save to re-subscribe? NO!!!


This made me stop reading. There are three reasons that I stopped. One, I don't like it when people as questions and then answer it without letting the people decide for themselves. Two, because asking a question and then answering it to raise a topic in any form of writing is a weak method of moving the idea forward. And three, using the wrong form of safe.

L Salander
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:10:00 - [24]
 

The language and phrasing used by white tree in that thread was loltastic. No one actually talks like that, it's either trolling or the csm is very 'special' indeed

Katra Novac
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:11:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Obviously Confidential
The CSM is the best vehicle for the players to help CCP see the mistakes they made and change their strategy back to EVE and away from mistakes/bugs/half done expansions/betas for WoD/hooks for DUST/crappy business models/lousy communication.



CSMs are not always the best vehicle a bit like politicians, they might try or think they truly represent the masses but they have their own ideas and agendas that will partially influence their way of approaching the problems.

The community is divided over these issues anyway, so whatever is decided it will suit some of the community but not the rest.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:11:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: San Severina
Now after a disaster of a patch


Disaster? I thought it went rather smoothly, except for the part where people were locked out of the game for having ancient/unsupported hardware, or ended up with GPUs melting.

Originally by: San Severina
… insulting MT items …


The MT items exist for one clear reason - to give people a place to spend lots of ISK when they have no other reason to spend it. The fact that the MT items get to exist on the market through someone converting PLEX into items is, IMHO, irrelevant. The NeX exists to suck stale PLEX and ISK out of player's hangars, and along the way convert some of CCP's liabilities (unfulfilled subscriptions) into income (destroyed PLEX).

Originally by: San Severina
… that make the game a laughing stock & player rage & outcry that was met with arrogant & offensive Dev Blogs & an unbelievably damning leaked internal Memo from the big boss, protests in game and out, mass cancelled subscriptions & a threadnaught that breaks all forum records.


Yes, there's a lot of panic at the moment, because people like you and I are worried that CCP has jumped the shark and is planning to sell gold ammo or other concierge/power items.

Originally by: San Severina
Now we are insulted by a thread from a CSM member telling us in the most condescending terms imaginable that - don't worry everybody - you have been heard!


I can't imagine why Whitetree would be so condescending to a bunch of rioters who are in a frenzied panic due to misinterpretation of an internal staff newsletter.

Originally by: San Severina
Well pardon me if I don't jump for joy at this news, am I really supposed to have any faith in a pathetic NDA gagged, useless, self interested, intimidated, subservient, PR exercise like the CSM?


As opposed to having faith in a mass of panicking player persisting in their perception that CCP is selling them out?

Here's the crunch: if you really want to quit this game, liquidate all your assets, donate the ISK to VV's Plex For Good project, and biomass your character. If you don't biomass your character, you're not actually serious about quitting. If you continue to post on the forums, you're not really serious about quitting.

If you're serious about quitting, biomass your character and write off the remaining time on your subscription. Walk away from the game and don't look back. In six month's time, the people who are still playing the game will be happily playing, with some new set of gripes ("holy **** CCP, there's no collision detection in Incarna? We just walk through each other? WTF?" or even more serious things such as, "OH NOES! The blue silk blouse is the wrong shade! It doesn't match the blue silk skirt!"), with a bunch of people happily handing over Aurum for whatever items happen to be sold in the store.

Contact your favourite CSM rep. Evemail them ingame, via Twitter, or their respective blogs. Don't ***** and whine here on the forums, that will achieve nothing.

crymyname
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:12:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: crymyname on 28/06/2011 11:12:51
and who says that ccp wont give the csm's a nice bag of cash and isk ??
come on do you really believe that ccp will do what you want .. there skint they need cash they need to show a bank that cash is incomming to get a new loan ..
ccp like many a company thought they had it all and there zombie,addicted fanbois would'nt say much ..but we did now there trying the next tactic..ths csm will make it right ..they can't
ccp tried to push to much at one time over streched itself and is now feeling the pain ..

ASK YOUR PLAYER BASE FOR HELP OPEN A PAYPAL ACCOUNT AND WE SHALL GIVE

under the terms you stop f u c king with eve !!!!
eve is not first life ,we don't want to do dress up ..unless its ships
we belong in a pod kicking crap out of each other and roid's ..

Acac Sunflyier
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:14:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Acac Sunflyier on 28/06/2011 11:16:45
Now I don't want to sound like I'm nitpicking, but your topic "It's OK everybody -CSM says our voices have been heard!!" is a horrible abomination that is such an eye sore, that it would make Ray Charles become even more blind than he already was. Now with cards thrown down so hard on the table they'd make a veteran from the World Series of Poker shudder, let me step back to the insulting sentence directed at the original poster, San Severina. The topic should read "It's okay everybody, the CSM has said that our voices have been heard!." Not that I spelled out the word "okay." This first bit gives the impression that you've had more literature education than a second grader. Also when you want to add a pause in your sentence you should add a comma, not a hyphen. Finally, I'd like to conclude with the fact that it is not okay to end a statement with a double exclamation mark!

Edited to lighten the tone.

Solosky
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:30:00 - [29]
 

CCP still too busy with WoD and DUST to expect any serious updates till 2014th besides stupid crap in NeX shop.

"You've been heard" is not enough to re-subscribe my 3 accounts and continue to sponsor DUST and WoD development with my money.

Let them eat monocles!

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:36:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Solosky
CCP still too busy with WoD and DUST to expect any serious updates till 2014th besides stupid crap in NeX shop.

"You've been heard" is not enough to re-subscribe my 3 accounts and continue to sponsor DUST and WoD development with my money.

Let them eat monocles!


Every gaming company uses their present game as platform to produce newer games. Blizzard, EA, etc, just to mention some bigger ones, but everyone will be doing this if they have the cashflow and/or investors.

What's more disturbing is that EVE-content is not only affected by other game development, it's actually almost only other game content, nothing EVE-related. That on the other hand, is quite unusual.


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