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Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:11:00 - [211]
 

Originally by: White Tree
....
Just asking for a pause until we can get OUR heads round it and try to hammer out solutions.

Ta, thanks for the post, White Tree. I appreciate your concerns and agree that the ragefest has a real possibility of damaging CCP beyond repair.

However, I should point out one or two things:
The current give-us-your-money fiasco is the straw that broke the camel's back. There are so many issues to so many people that have been ignored for so long that have been simmering in the background that have been catalysed by this drama. This current rage and the apparent breach of trust that caused it will not be solved by CCP simply agreeing to drop beyond-vanity MT items. CCP really does need a new direction to repair the trust with its customers. Because that's what we are (or were).

It really is a case of what you do and not what you say.

Good luck.

Angie Mactavish
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:13:00 - [212]
 

Dear CCP

We are sorry to hear you are having financial difficulties at present. I have done a thorough investigation of our playerbase records and unfortunatly I can find nothing in our logs to support this claim.

If you feel this matter has not been resolved to your satisfaction please feel free to contact our financial support team at: CSM@fanboi.aur

Thank you and have a nice day Smile

Ein Phantom
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:13:00 - [213]
 

Originally by: Angie Mactavish
Dear CCP

We are sorry to hear you are having financial difficulties at present. I have done a thorough investigation of our playerbase records and unfortunatly I can find nothing in our logs to support this claim.

If you feel this matter has not been resolved to your satisfaction please feel free to contact our financial support team at: CSM@fanboi.aur

Thank you and have a nice day Smile

Ban Doga
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:15:00 - [214]
 

Edited by: Ban Doga on 28/06/2011 08:15:16
Originally by: White Tree
So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.

So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.

So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.

CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.

So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.


An understandable position.
Probably very reasonable as well.

However I have a slightly different one:
Nothing has changed yet. So why should our reaction change?

Sure, they said the problem will be addressed, but how many times did we hear that?
Didn't Zulu "address" this problem with his $1000 pants devblog?
Didn't he "address" it again with his 100% more love devblog?
Wasn't CCP Pann here to "address" it before that?
Hasn't CCP Fallout "addressed" the players' concerns for delaying this matter (by telling them to wait)?

At some point "we will address this" is not good enough anymore.
Especially when you hear it for the umpteenth time and look at all the unresolved problems that have been "addressed" in the past.

Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:20:00 - [215]
 

To the op: This is a good post and I agree there is no further point in raging on at the moment. However I think many of us ARE worried that CCP is moving away from Eve as a main or even important project, if we can believe glassdoor, the leaked documents and previous events (18 months?) this certainly seems to indicate it.
Now this doesn't mean that Eve itself instantly becomes bad, but if it were true it would mean that the game is essentially going to be milked at this point without any real development exclusively ment for Eve happening anymore. Which is something that is hard to take in for Eve fans.

Rex Liberium
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:26:00 - [216]
 

Originally by: Drykor
To the op: This is a good post and I agree there is no further point in raging on at the moment. However I think many of us ARE worried that CCP has moved away from Eve as a main or even important project, if we can believe glassdoor, the leaked documents and previous events (18 months?) this certainly seems to indicate it.
Now this doesn't mean that Eve itself instantly becomes bad, but if it were true it would mean that the game is essentially going to be milked at this point without any real development exclusively ment for Eve happening anymore. Which is something that is hard to take in for Eve fans.


Just fixed that for you. Eve is used to bankroll WOD and DUST. Now they have this upcomming loan that is due and need money. CCP is between a rock (bank) and a hard place (playerbase). I like to see how they will get out of this one.

Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:29:00 - [217]
 

Hope the CSM work something out, CCP should have been a bit more candid with the CSM guys last time they met and none of this would have happened, canīt blame them though, seen VC demands kill companies before just for tax write off and cheap IP for their mates and acts of desperation and going against core beliefs were more than evident on the plunge to non existence.

Will Monocles become an a symbol of solidarity between players and CCP, a sign of faith in eve during this dangerous period?


Oh and good luck CSM, i just donīt want to see eve destroyed as a sand box but more importantly i donīt want CCP to fail.



Henrica Gaufridus
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:32:00 - [218]
 

Originally by: White Tree
I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.

CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.

So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.



I agree that we should not be viewing CCP as the enemy here. They've dropped the ball before, but never to this degree. I don't hate them, as they've given us THIS. They've nurtured this wonderful world that we all enjoy. Quite the contrary, I'm grateful to them. I think that's why I think a lot of us (myself included) were so initially upset over this. We all felt that the people we had come to trust and talk to us hadn't been completely truthful with us, and that's upsetting. I always trusted that they had our best interests at heart for numerous reasons. For one, happy customers are good customers. For two, a lot of the "old timers" have been here for a long time and know them to a degree (albeit through a game, though some personally). If I hated the devs and viewed them as the enemy, why would I, or any of us, be here (Russian Mafia and Chinese Isk Farmers excluded).

I agree that patience is needed. However, I'm not sure exactly what you mean. If you're suggesting that we wait quietly until this meeting, I disagree. CCP needs to know that this isn't a brief snap of nerdrage that will subside quickly. This is a chunk of the player base that is REALLY upset over all of this, and they need to know we're going to stay upset if it's not resolved. I don't know any other way that we can get this across to them other than through the actions of protest.

And to CCP: Thank you for allowing us to be heard. A real bunch of jerks would've just turned CONCORD on every single protester firing on the statues and deleted every single protest thread. To be honest, that may have ended the protests rather quickly, or at least they would have been taken away from Eve. But you're not jerks, you're a bunch of nerds like us. I think we need to remember that, and I think an open and regular dialogue between the players and the devs might help restore that.

As for me: I'll continue to protest until some sort of resolution is reached to this whole scenario. Not because I want Eve to fail, but because I want to see Eve become MOAR AWESOME. I want WiS. I want more guns and ships. I want to wear booty shorts, a pink tube top, and high heels. I don't want a future of uncertainty, where I'm afraid that the next move is going to bring Eve down. I want to know what CCP's vision is for Eve in the future.

Velios
M. Corp
M. PIRE
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:35:00 - [219]
 

The 'Torch Of Outrage' needs to be the name of the doomsday on the Sansha's Titan when it comes out :)

Zammo Bahrut
Banana On A Plate
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:36:00 - [220]
 

I await with baited breath.

I love eve, I love the marketeering, I love/hate the scammers, I love 'grinding' the missions, I love the pvp. I (used) to love the ship spinning...

I love the people of eve, It would be a damnable shame to see a game that I've enjoyed for so long take a wrong turn.

White Tree, you have my support and I truely hope that the right thing is done.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:37:00 - [221]
 

Thanks for your fighting. I can't be assed to get back in 0.0 with this madness going on. no pvp n eve for me. I wo't wanto my role of logistics pilot to become useful becuase of MT.


Fight the hard fight. If the game survives as we know it, and we meet at next years fanfest after the smoke clears, I'll buy you a drink white tree.

Kowaii Rabbit
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:45:00 - [222]
 

Originally by: Angie Mactavish
Dear CCP

We are sorry to hear you are having financial difficulties at present. I have done a thorough investigation of our playerbase records and unfortunatly I can find nothing in our logs to support this claim.

If you feel this matter has not been resolved to your satisfaction please feel free to contact our financial support team at: CSM@fanboi.aur

Thank you and have a nice day Smile


This.

Muffin Smuggler
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:49:00 - [223]
 

Originally by: White Tree
our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears.

we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake.

without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.

we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight



"I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say"

good luck with that, have a nice holiday.

VC General
Caldari
No Baals Inc
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:49:00 - [224]
 

Why would we not "continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience"? Eve makes money. Period. If CCP blew the profits on "not Eve", that's their fault. I don't see the issue here. Put your other vaporware projects on the shelf if necessary, and come back to the money maker until you've amassed another fortune to blow on more vaporware.

Cashcow Golden Goose
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:50:00 - [225]
 

ROLL OUT AS MANY MT OPTIONS AS POSSIBLE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

Without introducing Pay To Win.

Ship Decal Slots.
$500 monocles
$0.50 monocles
$1000 jeans.
$1 jeans

Why are you asking us? This isn't rocket science.

Najian
Lamb Federation Navy
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:53:00 - [226]
 

Just make sure the 0.5$ monocles actually look better than the current ones.

Checkmate trollocles.

Tore Vest
Gallente
Vikinghall
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:57:00 - [227]
 

Words.... From a TEST/Goons CSM have no value for me.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540246


MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:59:00 - [228]
 

Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 28/06/2011 09:09:08
Pause my ass.

CCP are supposed to be professionals. At least that's what they call themselves. Professionals don't make such mistakes. They also don't ignore the blatantly obvious and then proceed to ignore the people who point it out to them. Professionals don't do such glaring mistakes in gamedesign and they also don't release content that isn't even finished, repeatedly, over the course of several years.
Professionals are sensible enough when it comes to things like MT and inform their customers beforehand and keep them in the loop about what's going on.

Professionals don't have to pull in PR-stunts like the CSM because... they are professional.

So... without being personal here... take your fancy drivel to those dumb enough to believe in it, cause I'm not buying it. Come back when you guys have the balls to state the facts instead of taking whatever **** CCP throw at you to garnish it with fanboy twinkles and pearls for the "community" to swallow.


Irie Irie Irie
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:00:00 - [229]
 

Requesting the OP change the last word in the title of this thread to Ignored; which more accurately reflects the truth.

Madcapnl
The Rising Stars
The Volition Cult
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:02:00 - [230]
 

Kudos for your patience, White Tree. I like your positive look on things. In your position, with CCP just planinly ignoring the CSM, I would have stepped down already and told CCP to go **** themselves, but you found the strength to carry on. Good job. Good luck with the meeting.

Griffolion
Gallente
Dragon's Rage
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:06:00 - [231]
 

Could someone please tell me what's gone on? It feels like the end of the world is happening.

Maa Ku
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:06:00 - [232]
 

Edited by: Maa Ku on 28/06/2011 09:30:24
Good speech.

CCP is not our enemy and they must understand that all the rage and uproar is because we do not want to see a game we all play go down the pan.

It's because people care. If they didn't care, they'd just leave and go play another game.

Mater Dolorosa
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:09:00 - [233]
 

Edited by: Mater Dolorosa on 28/06/2011 09:12:36

I could have been patient if your CCP good-fellows had given me back my hangar on Monday after the DT as a sign of good will...

I don't care if some CSM members did share a hug, a beer or a hooker with CCP Zulu and Hilmar years ago but I am concerned that for more than 18 months I've given money to CCP for Eve not to develop a PS3 game (I don't have a TV, even less a PS3) or a World of Teethnagers.

Put 25% of your WoD staff back on Eve for the next 6 months, give me back my hangar, fix blasters, fix hardware issues, correct ageless bugs, redraw that imicus hull, translate the game into French/Spanish/Portuguese/Japanese or whatever and I'll resub...

coolzero
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:10:00 - [234]
 

i have no trust in CCP in even listing to the CSM..yeah you can talk to them all you want, but will they listen..doubt it.


Orithien Veladorn
ICE is Coming to EVE
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:11:00 - [235]
 

Originally by: White Tree
... CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink...


You're absolutely right. May you and the other delegates find a way to make this CSM meeting productive, and find solutions to ensure both players' and CCP's welfare. Smile

Vexion Daran
Gallente
Templars of Space
Northern Associates.
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:12:00 - [236]
 

Personally i am stressing out because of what is going on.
I love this game too much. Been playing it almost every day since may 2005.
The never ending post about "EVE is going to die!" i always looked at with a vengance. Now it is becomming almost a real option in this scenario.

Not sure if it is asked before or that it is already done, but can't the CSM setup a kind of CSM twitter so we can be kept up-to-date as the ifo comes in. We, playerbase, can respond quickly with opinions and questions to things that happen. you can take it back into the meeting and see if it's worth discussing.

just my 2 cents.

moneykeeper
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:14:00 - [237]
 

The chance of the CSM convincing CCP to get rid of microtransactions is 0. At least you will get a free trip to Iceland, though, which is cool.

Zombatar
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:16:00 - [238]
 

@ OP

A more competent post that those blogs by CCP.

Hope for the best! When you are back, you better speak the truth. Let us know, we can take the good with the bad.

Go EVE! ;)

Alarea Griffis
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:19:00 - [239]
 

Edited by: Alarea Griffis on 28/06/2011 10:10:03
My first post ever here, I'll sum up the situation in a nutshell.
1) CQ has Absolutely Nothing to do with EVE! Nothing!!! It is Irrelevant Fluff that should be kept on its Own Server. I have several corp mates who are 2000 miles from home for the next several weeks with 2 4000$ laptops that cannot even log into skillflip because of the shader 3 incompetence.

2) Breach of trust! The NDA or Non Disclosure Act. To everyone of my friends who play and introduced me to Eve 4 years ago it now represents Everything CCP Stands for: NDA or Never Deliver Anything act in regards to fixes and new EVE Content, Yes EVE content the game that drew us here to play and enjoy not extra CCP Fluff TM Non Eve related items.

3) The inability to realize that the players care about EVE online! The Space Economy PVP, PVE, Carebears , Industrialist, JOATs universe we all love and Enjoy. CQ is Nothing of the Above, it damages machines, prevents people from logging in and Enjoying EVE Online, It is Not Eve and has no part of being part of Eve's primary servers.

4) The Very important issue! Community and friends! That is what Eve is all about, We game with each other for Years in Eve and have developed great friendships through Eve and those will last Beyond Eve as well, the next 7 days will determine the fate of 50+ accounts from my circle of friends if steps are not taken to make sure we can all enjoy the game we love and care about, we have found several other options to stay together if CCP cannot be bothered to allow its Subscribed Paying Customers to play EVE ONLINE. CQ Serves no purpose and HAS NO PURPOSE on Eve's primary server.

We will be deciding what to do 48 hours after the CSM emergency meeting

We have been patient with CCP for YEARS. CCP is down to hours to display a real response and no a Blahblahblah statement that they'll improve within 2 years is No Longer Acceptable!

Nemesis Factor
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:23:00 - [240]
 

I have cancelled my accounts to send a message.

However, I will stick around to see what comes of this and WILL resubscribe depending on the outcome. I love Eve, and if CCP shows an honest effort to revitalize it I will still be here.


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