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Optional Patch
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:22:00 - [151]
 

Edited by: Optional Patch on 28/06/2011 04:22:10
Quote:
ALL NEX ITEMS MUST BE DESTORYABLE!

Well... without the typo obviously :)

Doh Stupid
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:22:00 - [152]
 

Please White Tree, try to get our old hanger back. I awful lot of us want nothing to do with the captains quarters and we greatly miss our ship hangers, it just doesn't feel like eve without it.

Teddy Hess
Caldari
United Space Marine Corp
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:23:00 - [153]
 

Originally by: Nuramori
Edited by: Nuramori on 28/06/2011 03:55:59
Since you're headed there, I think the mindset should be less of negotiations, and more of braintrust, with the goal of working for a common good. CCP wants to be financially sound, and the user base wants CCP to be financially sound, or we lose the game. We lose development and improvement. CCP needs us, we need them. Mutual goals, mutual needs.

After all the words that have flown by, and all the actions that have taken place, the results of a working session that results in everyone being happy would be a fantastic PR move. It would SHOW the rest of the industry that there is no one side that needs to win, that it's a synergistic relationship that needs to be fostered. We're not a blind golden goose.

I say CCP needs a supplemental income stream. After some thought I'm ok with MT, as LONG AS IT'S VANITY ONLY. even the EA presentation notes that the most effective conversion approach was the peacock" group. This is a fair and reasonable compromise for them and the Eve community. They can count on MT, we can get alliance/corp logo'd ships, pink shirts, and CCP gets a nice income stream from the alpha types that dominate Eve.

CCP needs to tier the vanity items. More costly items are permanent, less costly ones are disposable/consumable. If having a logo slapped on a ship is cheap enough, then you're sure to see entire alliance fleets of branded ships flying, and at a low isk/aurum cost, they will re-buy it for every ship they lose. Hell, an alliance may make it mandatory to label your ship. For a higher tier item, you keep it regardless of your loss, like a monocle, banana sock in your pants, or a hook on your hand. What have you. If Captains quarters represents the first step to abulation, then the peacock approach will only generate more demand for vanity items.

Increase subscription rates. Doesn't have to be a lot, a few bucks, and perhaps tier it. If you commit for a year, it's less (as it is now) but for the other tiers and less commitment, make the "penalty" greater. If people want eve but don't want Play2Win, then they surely can stomach a few bucks more. I don't even think Eve's rates have changed with inflation. People talk about "donating to help ccp", if they are good on that claim, then take an increase to the subscription.

IF there can't be some compromise to non-vanity MT, then I think the best accommodation is to make new/T2/ALL bpo's be bought strictly thru Aurum. This will keep the manufacturing as a player creation, and allow for in game sales of items. I agree that magical supply of anything in game is wrong, but if it has to happen, let it be the BPO so that the item still has to rely on the game economics for actual implementation. Maybe this is where CCP compromises and ALL T2 BPOS currently held become HIGH run copies, and they reset the T2 BPO market be allowing it to be accessible to all players wanting to get into the market.

If they need more ISK sink, the they need to capitulate on say hi sec moon mining. That would create a new group of pvp, as wardecs would increase, and total, botting carebears would now have to look out. There are acutally R32 and R64 moons in high sec. Let the output be an order of magnitude less than null, but allow those that want to try moon mining to have the opportunity, and give high sec citizens a new concern to challenge their lazy life. Imagine the pos bashing and wardecs that would liven all areas if this were to happen, and all the isk that would start sinking out.


Ok, so there are some thoughts, got more, but that's it for now. Good luck White Tree.



Damn Fine Suggestions there. I completely agree with this. A well thought out plan and proposal.

Jonathan Malcom
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:24:00 - [154]
 

White Tree best tree.

Freya Kesanlaulu
Minmatar
Arthashastra
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:24:00 - [155]
 

I never hated CCP. And I'm sure they'll do the job well.

Vid Eeomeet
Smoke 'n' Mirrors
Knights Of Freedoms
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:30:00 - [156]
 

Thread supported. I hope the CSM can deliver home to CCP the core messages of the players. Obviously where the outrage came from is clear.

The one thing I hope CCP hears more than anything is this potential 'pay to win' MT move they seem to be leaning toward, should be pulled from the table.

At most, MT items for industry I could see the players accepting. IMO, if MT items are introduced that effect pvp combat, that's where the line gets crossed for many of us.

Anyway, good post White Tree. I'm pulling for you. o7

Kelly Alleron
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:31:00 - [157]
 

Below is my input to CCP Pann's thread. This sums up how me and my mates feel about CCP atm. We still love them and will be playing till the servers shutdown. But, as with most relationships we are in a slump.

Originally by: Kelly Alleron
Edited by: Kelly Alleron on 24/06/2011 06:41:03
@ CCP Pann: Welcome back to the foreground. We've missed seeing you.
@ CCP Manifest: Thank you for reading and responding, even in the limited way you are able to atm.
@ CCP Fallout and the other Moderators: I figure the outrage over this is causeing you to work extramly hard and put in much overtime, that you could be spending elswhere. Thank you.

Now on to my bit.

I am aware that i'll probably never get a responce for this (seeing how far back in the post it is and how busy everyone is (Edit: and cause its in the middle of the page)). I also apoligize for my spelling on some words. I joined EVE for several reasons.

1. My friend who told me about it said it was "A syfi MMO, with a ruthless community, and a made by a company that dosnt care about making money or what the rest of the gaming industry is doing, they cared about making the best syfi mmo possible."
2. EVE runs on a sub base, not MT, not FTP. Sub.
3. Over the years i have played (excluding the past 9 or so months) CCP has repeatedly proven that they are far better masters then say.. Blizzard or insert other mmo developer here. CCP listens to its player base and are players themselves.

Till recently. I feel abandond by CCP.

When the majority of the player base said "WIS will be fine if we can keep the old hanger view and just have a button to to disembark to our CQ." CCP brushed us off, or flat out ignored us. Making the use of WIS MANDITORY.
When the majority of the player base said "MT is not ok. We dont want it." or "We want it so long as its affordable." CCP brushed us off, or flat out ignored us. Pants that cost hundreds of millions of isk is not ok. the most expencive desiner clothing i have ever seen (in person) was 17000 USD. Just walking in the door of that store you got free cappachino, and where treated like a god. They even had a fountain with fish in there lobby. The NEX dose not give/have that. Why dose a T-Shirt cost more to buy then a Battlecruiser?
So far this year i have noticed that the Devs and the leadership of CCP have drifted farther and farther away from the players. The more money CCP seems to make the less they seem to care about us. And the closer the get to being like OTHER mmo companys. Are we nothing more then a pay check to you?
I dont blame anyone. I will not quite. You spent years shaping the community of EVE into a terrifyingly dedicated force. Please dont abandon us or what you have created in order to pad your pockets with an influk of WOWers, and FB gamers.

Ianus
Caldari
Geminus Gateway
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:34:00 - [158]
 

I just hope that whatever transpires over the next days will lead to a clear-cut strategy moving forwards that'll inspire the player-base, instead of a zillion pages long document that essentially says nothing.

Personally I give it a 1/5 chance that this meeting will be remembered as a fruitful endeavor, and that's good enough for me.

Good luck, CSM. We're all counting on you.

Trig Onami
Caldari
Onami Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:37:00 - [159]
 

The meeting will consist of a boardroom table.. One big shot on one side.. a bunch of small shots on the other side.. and there will be two words: "You're fired." -- Donald Trump

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:44:00 - [160]
 

Edited by: Skex Relbore on 28/06/2011 04:44:54
One thing I do think people need to bear in mind here is that if CCP really is in dire financial straights due to being over extended with the WOD and Dust projects then they may really need a capital injection of some sort.

So it might be useful to have some funding alternatives to offer if they really are looking at insolvency.

I mean sure it's their own damned fault for being in that position but smug moral superiority isn't going to keep the servers running.

Personally I like the idea of plex for shares perhaps with a vanity item associated with it such as special hat or Monocle that would Identify the player as a stakeholder. So if they needed to generate 8 mil in additional capital they'd sell just over half a million plex shares in EVE to finance that.

These of course would have to be real shares which would pay out real dividends and purchase price in the case of a buy out of IPO. hell I'd be willing to buy a few shares per account over the next few months to have a real stake in the game.

Of course there is also the option of increasing the subscription price or some combination of the two.

I'm really against the idea of monetizing the player base and undermining the integrity of the game even vanity items worry me, this is why I like the idea of plex for shares with a vanity item associated because it divorces those vanity items from a cash shop mechanic to a stakeholder mechanic.

Perhaps even keeping track of the number of shares held by the individual so that at say 1 share you have access to a special t-shirt (I bought a share in CCP and all I got was this T-shirt) at 2 you get different pants 3 a jacket 4 special eyewear 5 special hats, 6 start getting custom paint jobs on your ships with cooler and cooler paint jobs depending on your stake in the company. No performance difference just cosmetic bits to show that you are a financial stakeholder in the game.

It would change the relationship between the company and subscriber from adversarial to interdependent.

And hell that would really be a new paradigm.

Kah'Roor
The Flaming Sideburn's
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:44:00 - [161]
 

The opposite of love isn't hate, its apathy. The threadnaughts, statue shooting, and unsub post, just show passions are running high when we feel like our hobby (that many of us have spent years with) is being endangered for short term monetary gain and to fund things we don't care about. Go to Iceland, see what they have too say, express our concerns, we will all know soon enough what the future will hold. We are behind you and the rest of the CSM. GL Tree, I hope you can talk sense to them.

Sujanra Acoma
Minmatar
Shadow Kitty Legion
Rura-Penthe
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:52:00 - [162]
 

Good post.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:56:00 - [163]
 

Yes, let's take a break people.

And oh White Tree, as you're there anyway can you ask them when we get a SP for AUR shop?

Thanks.

Yeo San
Neoanarchistic Society
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:58:00 - [164]
 

Originally by: White Tree

So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. [...]

So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. [...]

So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. [...]



Hi White Tree,
do you recognize something?

You've just done your job, you don't need to fly to Iceland anymore.
CCP needs the CSM only to calm down the waves. CCP isn't able to handle that protest alone, the management is totally failing, nothing but a halfwarm excuse of the one, who insulted the community by an arrogant devblog, other responsibles don't even show up.

the long list of failures (unrealistic prices, betrayal, arrogance etc.) with the last update negates the positve aspects (like shiny new turret models), this cries for protest, ongoing protest. each truce is just a buying time of ccp and you diligently offer yourself to do the job.

what will come is that you won't be heard, one week of protest will be lost, ccp will lower the prices of their goddamn nexstore, both sides - csm and ccp - will claim this as a victory, but the core of evil, which is destroying eve, the open and brutal capitalistic change of eve and the misuse of the users as "cash cows" will continue. You will be betrayed, because you will be unable to reasons, you will just be asked to the symptoms.

And this is why my voice has not been heard!

Heathyy
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:58:00 - [165]
 

I find it peculiar that they've chosen to focus more on cosmetics recently than anything else, I read the patch notes now and then and see various fixes here and there. although there are gripping issues that just never seem to get looked at. WIS is an interesting (overdue for most) change but they've basically spent all that time and ended up replacing ship spinning with character spinning (or just background picture.) instead of actually improving what is already there. P2W probably would destroy eve, combined with RMT your looking at a potential CF indeed.

the balancing act of keeping a large community happy while also keeping a lucrative business isn't something I ever hope to have to tackle. but you could probably start with focusing more on the actual game play than cosmetics (which I'm sure more ppl actually care to see coupled with having an actual impact on the game itself) and the chance at potential game breaking P2W schemes. I can't really tell if everyone is annoyed at the NEX or if it really is what I've just said. lots of games use MT, so long as it stays within the boundaries of fair play I have no qualms with it personally. when it comes down to it someone rich enough IRL is going to be able to get whatever they want via multiple legitimate Plex purchases and sales in game anyway.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:10:00 - [166]
 

One more comment in this thread.

I've seen a couple posts referring to metaphors of politics, and some of those metaphors have been used during these protests, pitchforks, etc. We however are not exactly the peasants. We are the kings. We have the money. Keep it in mind when you visit.

Leeya Sater
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:13:00 - [167]
 

I just want my Sanctums and Havens back in 0.0. I pay my three subs by the year and so letting me have an isk fountain just means I have more fun in the game cause I can do more...buy more.. and of course, lose more :) By increasing the isk in my wallet you aren't letting me play for free either. The real deal though is that I'm a middle ages adult that does not have the free time of youth to spend 6-12 hours a day on Eve...I need to be able to do something meaningful in at best a few hours. Run 2-3 sanctums and call it a night...in a week and a half I get a new capital component BPO...I'm happy. Now I have to go back to empire (ugh)...can't shoot anyone if I want (ugh) or more likely try to get away from reds (terrifying but exciting too)...bleah game is no longer fun. So I have canceled two of my three accounts with the third soon to follow. CCP didn't listen to us on the forums so now I am voting with my $$...that's $400/year down the tubes due to CCP's idiocy...can you hear me now?

I hope CCP does save Eve...it is by far and above the best game and I'll pay for the best...but not for this crap. Stop trying to force PvP on everyone and embrace the diversity that is Eve. You need more $$ in your corp wallet CCP? Make everyone pay for their subs...or at least the first few...

Good Luck!

Uluen
Gallente
MacArthur Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:15:00 - [168]
 

Well said, White Tree. Thank you for providing hope when all that has been seen is impending doom.

Please save EVE. This is such an amazing game.

Be strong and stand up for what is right!

Biff Rodgers
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:16:00 - [169]
 

I've only been on Eve for 3 years. Alot of investment put into it. What concerns me with the way CCP treat their players is that the silent majority who never fill in surveys, never say peep, vote with their feet and don't renew their subs. CCP need to think about the bread and butter sub players that pay their bills else CCP run the risk of other business that forget their customers.

Dreya Renthold
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:21:00 - [170]
 

Originally by: Kelly Alleron
Below is my input to CCP Pann's thread. This sums up how me and my mates feel about CCP atm. We still love them and will be playing till the servers shutdown. But, as with most relationships we are in a slump.

Originally by: Kelly Alleron
Edited by: Kelly Alleron on 24/06/2011 06:41:03
@ CCP Pann: Welcome back to the foreground. We've missed seeing you.
@ CCP Manifest: Thank you for reading and responding, even in the limited way you are able to atm.
@ CCP Fallout and the other Moderators: I figure the outrage over this is causeing you to work extramly hard and put in much overtime, that you could be spending elswhere. Thank you.

Now on to my bit.

I am aware that i'll probably never get a responce for this (seeing how far back in the post it is and how busy everyone is (Edit: and cause its in the middle of the page)). I also apoligize for my spelling on some words. I joined EVE for several reasons.

1. My friend who told me about it said it was "A syfi MMO, with a ruthless community, and a made by a company that dosnt care about making money or what the rest of the gaming industry is doing, they cared about making the best syfi mmo possible."
2. EVE runs on a sub base, not MT, not FTP. Sub.
3. Over the years i have played (excluding the past 9 or so months) CCP has repeatedly proven that they are far better masters then say.. Blizzard or insert other mmo developer here. CCP listens to its player base and are players themselves.

Till recently. I feel abandond by CCP.

When the majority of the player base said "WIS will be fine if we can keep the old hanger view and just have a button to to disembark to our CQ." CCP brushed us off, or flat out ignored us. Making the use of WIS MANDITORY.
When the majority of the player base said "MT is not ok. We dont want it." or "We want it so long as its affordable." CCP brushed us off, or flat out ignored us. Pants that cost hundreds of millions of isk is not ok. the most expencive desiner clothing i have ever seen (in person) was 17000 USD. Just walking in the door of that store you got free cappachino, and where treated like a god. They even had a fountain with fish in there lobby. The NEX dose not give/have that. Why dose a T-Shirt cost more to buy then a Battlecruiser?
So far this year i have noticed that the Devs and the leadership of CCP have drifted farther and farther away from the players. The more money CCP seems to make the less they seem to care about us. And the closer the get to being like OTHER mmo companys. Are we nothing more then a pay check to you?
I dont blame anyone. I will not quite. You spent years shaping the community of EVE into a terrifyingly dedicated force. Please dont abandon us or what you have created in order to pad your pockets with an influk of WOWers, and FB gamers.



Wow. Good words.

Anna Maziarczyk
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:23:00 - [171]
 

fair enough

Tarpedo
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:23:00 - [172]
 

If CCP need money to pay off their debt and develop DUST12345 - fine - let them create RMT shop with insane prices. But EVERY item in NeX shop MUST be avaialble via standard game interactions (rare drop from NPCs, costly fraction LP reward, craft, etc.)

Best of luck!

Dreya Renthold
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:35:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Optional Patch
Edited by: Optional Patch on 28/06/2011 04:22:10
Quote:
ALL NEX ITEMS MUST BE DESTORYABLE!

Well... without the typo obviously :)


Theres just one problem with this. (Warning: RP) When you are in your pod you are naked. When you get out of your pod you are naked. You must first shower and put on said clothing before the loading screen finishs. To launch your ship you must strip down, hook up to your pod, have the pod be put in your ship, and launch. Your not wearing anything when your pod goes boom.

Troy LS
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:35:00 - [174]
 

Edited by: Troy LS on 28/06/2011 05:37:29
Hilmer owes us an apology. His attitude toward this cash cow has been made more than clear by his posts and by the leaked documents. His most recent statement was not conciliatory nor apologetic. Frankly, when a company, any company, shows such disdain for me as a customer, they've lost a customer.

Its clear that CCP has some money problems. Its also clear that the community can be a resource to help solve the problems that were caused by the managements shortsightedness and ineptitude; some of the suggestions presented here are promising. I hope CCP and CSM can work together to save the game.

BUT, for me, more important than RMT (which is very important) and CQ (which is not), Hilmer owes me (and the community I think - I can only speak for myself), a heart-felt and sincere apology. Only then will I consider re-subbing. Oh yes, also not MT for strategic advantage (the final condition for re-activation of my subscription).

Edit: Good post, btw. Its encouraging to see folks like you (and Akita) take a genuine interest in saving a great game. Good luck in Iceland.

Warstomp
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:38:00 - [175]
 

Tell them we demand actual content not cheap poor expansions. We want quality content back to EVE down with Dust Up with EVE down with WOD up with EVE...no MICROTRANSACTIONS AT ALL NONE! Add actual content to this game please not gimmicky expansions...

Kiran
Minmatar
Knights of Azrael
Anti-Social Outcast
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:44:00 - [176]
 

Good luck with the meeting I truely hope they listen. I love Eve been playing since release on and off with breaks. ( You need them ). Would be sad to see this mmo die like SWG did.

Oh by the way while your at it can you ask them for a big mac and fries please? Not left my pc since this all started hummm also a chair bath may go some way its been over 30 degrees here damn it.

Syna Atruin
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:46:00 - [177]
 

Originally by: Dreya Renthold
Originally by: Kelly Alleron
Below is my input to CCP Pann's thread. This sums up how me and my mates feel about CCP atm. We still love them and will be playing till the servers shutdown. But, as with most relationships we are in a slump.

Originally by: Kelly Alleron
Edited by: Kelly Alleron on 24/06/2011 06:41:03
@ CCP Pann: Welcome back to the foreground. We've missed seeing you.
@ CCP Manifest: Thank you for reading and responding, even in the limited way you are able to atm.
@ CCP Fallout and the other Moderators: I figure the outrage over this is causeing you to work extramly hard and put in much overtime, that you could be spending elswhere. Thank you.

Now on to my bit.

I am aware that i'll probably never get a responce for this (seeing how far back in the post it is and how busy everyone is (Edit: and cause its in the middle of the page)). I also apoligize for my spelling on some words. I joined EVE for several reasons.

1. My friend who told me about it said it was "A syfi MMO, with a ruthless community, and a made by a company that dosnt care about making money or what the rest of the gaming industry is doing, they cared about making the best syfi mmo possible."
2. EVE runs on a sub base, not MT, not FTP. Sub.
3. Over the years i have played (excluding the past 9 or so months) CCP has repeatedly proven that they are far better masters then say.. Blizzard or insert other mmo developer here. CCP listens to its player base and are players themselves.

Till recently. I feel abandond by CCP.

When the majority of the player base said "WIS will be fine if we can keep the old hanger view and just have a button to to disembark to our CQ." CCP brushed us off, or flat out ignored us. Making the use of WIS MANDITORY.
When the majority of the player base said "MT is not ok. We dont want it." or "We want it so long as its affordable." CCP brushed us off, or flat out ignored us. Pants that cost hundreds of millions of isk is not ok. the most expencive desiner clothing i have ever seen (in person) was 17000 USD. Just walking in the door of that store you got free cappachino, and where treated like a god. They even had a fountain with fish in there lobby. The NEX dose not give/have that. Why dose a T-Shirt cost more to buy then a Battlecruiser?
So far this year i have noticed that the Devs and the leadership of CCP have drifted farther and farther away from the players. The more money CCP seems to make the less they seem to care about us. And the closer the get to being like OTHER mmo companys. Are we nothing more then a pay check to you?
I dont blame anyone. I will not quite. You spent years shaping the community of EVE into a terrifyingly dedicated force. Please dont abandon us or what you have created in order to pad your pockets with an influk of WOWers, and FB gamers.



Wow. Good words.


^^This.

Reptail
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:48:00 - [178]
 

They will kidnap you to force-stop player rage.

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:52:00 - [179]
 



I would bet all I own in EVE that if it doesn't go well in Iceland, there will be some MASSIVE holes in null sec.


Anna Maziarczyk
Posted - 2011.06.28 05:57:00 - [180]
 

Edited by: Anna Maziarczyk on 28/06/2011 06:09:29
I agree with what a lot of people are saying.

Its not JUST about MT Non-Vanity. Although that is a CORE issue and at the forefront of it all.

Where is Development for EVE?

Will they acknowledge their neglect of Development on EVE and present a plan for getting things back on track.

Its painfully obvious EVE has been abandoned for work on Twilight Online and Dust. This needs to be addressed.

2. Optional Content v. Shoved down our throat or shown the door. Many of the various Media articles point out a common theme among EVE controversial expansions - CCP forces them down our throats. While i understand the intricacy of it, i don't think its appropriate at this point.

SPACEFLIGHT <----> DOCKED <------> CQ


3. With so little resource being spent on EVE GAMEPLAY, do we really need so much fluff? i.e. Chess Boxing, MSNBC type coverage of iceland man ego, etc etc. The Playerbase, and GAMEPAY should be Priority #1. Get those right and THEN do fluff, not the opposite.


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